ShockingAlberto
Member
That probably made way more sense in your head.
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Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto
- Thread starter AceBandage
- Start date
I prefer "sheep", "cows", "lemmings" and "hermits" myself.
But damn, a 16-core Xbox 3 takes unsustainable to a whole new level.
lordfroakie
Member
Just put him on ignore and move on. This silly arguement is derailing the thread. Take your fight somewhere else.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Seriously, it would be better for you to leave this thread if you have to resort to insults ("Nintendrones", etc...)
You are welcome to participate in any discussion when you have arguments though!
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I try and respond in the same language. Are you done?
I also think 2-3X is very fair but from recent rumours it may actually only end up being on par with existing hardware, that was the point of my original rant. How can Nintendo expect consumers to go from the Xbox 360 and/or PS3 to the Wii-U if there is no real upgrade (if it ends up being true)?
That's the thing, we don't know. I just have a feeling that tablet controller and the hardware if it's going to be 2-3X the existing power of the PS3 and Xbox 360 will not fit into Nintendo's philosophy of selling hardware at a profit and for less than $300. Nintendo is so centric on not alienating families with their vision of sub-$300 hardware that it will once again put off any serious gamer who currently buys most of their multiplat games on other systems than a Wii.
ShockingAlberto
Member
So it's not actually an attempt to make a point, but rather just swinging at the air?
Alright. I am done. I was simply trying to ascertain if you were someone worth arguing with, but apparently you're just overly-emotional.
ColdBlooder
Banned
We have two people in this very own thread with insider info that hinted twoards "2x to 3x". One of them, i belive, even works on the dev kit.
Please keep in mind that people who work on the kits cant just come out and say "Yup, its more powerful!". They like to keep their jobs...
Also the Japanese garden (SHOWFLOOR version) and the Zelda demo (both made with underclocked, overheating first version of the dev kits) look already better than current gen stuff.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I hope so but the online service could be even worse than we saw on the PS3 where we had games like MGS4 running on Konami servers where the consumer had to create a new account. I think Nintendo will rely too much on 3rd party input which may mean a segregated felt community. Will Nintendo invest like Steam or XBL where the gamer feels like he/she is in a seamless experience? Doubtful. So either we get Nintendo's babysitting service with limited tools or we get an open service that's not really as compatible as it should be with all Wii-U games.
Well in that case I can understand Nintendo valuing quality of input rather than quantity. It's all about precision, baby!
Could you link?
I've seen nothing that suggest such a big leap, 2x to 3x is a very big leap that I think the Wii U doesn't represent, at least from what we've seen and "heard". The Zelda video and the Garden tech demos, when compared to tech demos for the Ps3 and 360 aren't even close to looking like such a leap. Heck, they look like no leap at all.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Might as well close down the boards then.
gashikunFLCL
Member
Back on topic, I asked this early, can someone come up with something?
Louis Cyphre
Banned
You're right, I am alone which is why all of you only own Wii's/3DS and nothing else.
Everyone is welcome to participate, those comments were directed at those who need to plug their ears because they can't handle it.
If that Zelda demo ends up being like that when it's released then yes, I will be happy with that. However it will be a wait and see if it truly does come to fruition (and waiting is key since it's not likely to be a launch title). As for 2x or 3x (than the PS3 and Xbox 360), again that is enough for me.
Dreamwriter
Member
It's only two expos, and it's not a web comic expo, it's a video game and tabletop expo that happened to have been started by the web comic founders, because they wanted to go to a public gaming expo, and there were none in the US for them to go to. And it makes perfect sense for some devs to announce stuff at the biggest public video game expo in the US, though few actually do so due to PAX's proximity to E3 and relative lack of media coverage.
If that's what your argument is based on, well, you've got nothing to base it on. That's never been their stated goal for the Wii U. And we'd have to wait for more information to be revealed to know if it was a goal of theirs period.
But looking through social media or through Nielsen's numbers, people who own 360s or PS3s aren't interested in the next Wii. They're interested in the next Xbox or Playstation, and they'll likely hold off purchasing a new console until those come out. Unless Nintendo gets a Gears of War-level exclusive, a few little tablet features won't push an existing gamer to own a Wii U if they don't want one.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Comüaring those demos is rather difficult. We have NO direct feed video from the Nintendo demos
The Japanese garden (again, showfloor version, not the short part from the conference!) renders 2 scenes at one time (one on the TV the other on the screen.
On screen, I would consider Samaritan to be a 2x/3x visual leap over what we have right now on consoles.
Samaritan for me, doesn't seem like a game that will ever run on a Wii U.
gashikunFLCL
Member
I have a PS3/PSP/DS too.
yeah, that's because samaritan is not a game
ShockingAlberto
Member
"You don't own any non-Nintendo systems"
That sounds like a bet to me. What do you want to put on the line before I start posting my gamertags?
That sounds like a bet to me. What do you want to put on the line before I start posting my gamertags?
Dreamwriter
Member
I am sorry but as a consumer you have the right to change your tastes and expect more from a company selling you a product. I paid 250$ for a Wii, I expect to get 250$ worth of enjoyment out of it. I also pay 50$ per game and I expect to be able to play the dam game online without friend codes.
I hate to think that a consumer demanding their money's worth out of their purchases. I simply want Nintendo to give me the best experience out of my purchase. I don't want friend codes for my online. I don't want to pay top dollar for a system that doesn't have specs that are worth the money.
You are paying your hard earned money, you have the right to change your expectations about what a company should be trying to provide to you. And yeah if they don't provide that I have the right to not buy what they are selling or wait till the stuff drops in price. Nintendo doesn't have to make things catered to my tastes but as a fan of their games and a consumer of their products for 17 years I think its OK for fans and consumers to adjust what they want from their products.
What's the math we use to figure out how many shaders and graphix the Samaritan demo uses? It's important to know the raw numbers behind a metric such as X.
Right and when they quit doing that for you, you stop buying their product. In theory, if they are alienating all their other consumers then they go out of business. Nintendo is obviously not at the place where they feel the need to capitulate to every single demand of every single consumer. If the company isn't doing what you want to do, then move on to someone else who is. Or do you fall in the camp who wants their Mario and Zelda on iPhone and PS360?
It is totally your right to bitch about it on the internet, but there is very little you can do to change what Nintendo will do.
Wanna bet?
In any case, I don't see exactly what you are trying to achieve by posting that.
Won't pretend to know. I'm talking about what my eyes are telling me. And obviously the metric is "games that look 2 or 3 times better than others".
DefectiveReject
Banned
GAF has an endless chain of trolls.... where do they all come from?
I'm making thread 5. Stake in the ground. Ye shall not pass
It's not. It's a techdemo, confirmed by Epic.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-11-will-samaritan-tech-demo-spawn-a-game
Samaritan is a graphics demo. It's not something that can be realistically turned into a 12+ hour game without spending vastly more than what games currently cost. Expecting next gen to be full of Samaritan games is the same as expecting publishers to be fine with doubling or tripling their budgets.
gashikunFLCL
Member
It's a tech demo now. Unreal 3 tech demos at first had art assets from Gears Of War.
Pretty sure it's not that linear. And I've heard the same before this gen started.
Power is not all important. Software is. I wish people would remember how poorly PS360 did at the start of this generation. I wish people would remember that it was kinect and not high end graphics that pulled 360 into the mainstream. I wish people would remember that it was Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart and not HD resolutions that rocketed the Wii into stardom. I wish people would realize that most consumers aren't going to set the 360 and Wii U next to each other and compare them directly, they're going to be attracted to software that's unique to each system. I wish the people who clamor on and on about how a lack of a large graphical leap hinders sales potential would think about why Wii has sold 95+ million units world wide. I wish people would understand that while lack of third party support is tangentially related to a lack of power in the Wii, it's impossible for the cause of Wii's decline to be contingent on support that was never present during its rise, and that the drop off in 2011 correlates directly with the drop in software support by nintendo themselves. These are arguable points insofar as the spherical shape of the earth is an arguable point.
Reading some of these comments and the comments in the other threads it feels like some people are actually angry that Nintendo is successful with the business model they use.
Shhhh you can't say that. It implies the consumer has some responsibility on how they spend their money and that is apparently not possible.
I'm in the same boat as you, I make sure I check things out pretty heavily before I spend money on it.
They are YOUR eyes. Why don't you ask them where they get their numbers from?
Shhhh you can't say that. It implies the consumer has some responsibility on how they spend their money and that is apparently not possible.
I'm in the same boat as you, I make sure I check things out pretty heavily before I spend money on it.
They are YOUR eyes. Why don't you ask them where they get their numbers from?
1. I and many others here own a 360, or a ps3 (I own both) I have been posting in the mass effect ending thread but that was a couple weeks ago for instance, and I've seen other members from this thread in other game threads, so I'm sure your first statement here is wrong and is part of the reason you might feel attacked, because you are attacking the people in this thread.
2. Everyone here is pretty reasonable, the recent rumors about some developers (unnamed) have said that their software "runs better on PS360 then Wii U thanks to a slow CPU no wait, a slow GPU, no wait those things are fine, the system is on par" that has a lot more to do with optimization and the Wii U's CPU being Out of Order Execution, which is going to change how those engines and programs run, Nintendo is working with popular 3rd party engines to fix this though, as for the GPU, well that bird demo was rendering 2 different view points that seemed to be at least very high demanding for 360, and it was doing so twice on early version, underclocked hardware and that was just a very rushed bird demo running in 720p @30fps, as can be shown from the press conference version being drastically inferior to what was shown running on the Wii U console on the show floor.
3. Yeah, your expectations are probably correct, 2-3x is likely what we will get, I personally don't think that we will get less than 600gflops from the GPU, since someone working on an earlier version of the GPU said that the gpu had 640 shaders, if they were running at 500mhz, well that gives us 640 gflops, which is between those numbers. That CPU being OoOE 3core with multithreading based around power7 is not going to be inferior to PS360, we also know that we can expect over 1gb of ram, which should give us a clear superiority over PS360 consoles.
We will see what we get, but those rumors are highly suspect, as we also have many recent rumors saying that the hardware has more resources and will display higher resolution textures then we have seen so far, Gearbox has even said that their version on Wii U will be a better version then most of the other versions (leaving only PC to really beat it, as expected)
You seem to believe what the majority of us believe, you are just talking about a theoretical version of the console that simply does not exist. (see unoptimised third party engine in point 2.)
Since N64, somehow they manage to shoot themselves in the foot every gen...
amidoingitright?
Louis Cyphre
Banned
What exactly is the question though? Nintendo (or Microsoft or Sony) can play a major influence on 3rd party publishers. It is no secret that out of the 3 Nintendo has has the most difficulty. Will that change? maybe, maybe not. It depends on if Nintendo is serious on providing hardware that benefits them or not.
We've also had issues with Nintendo releasing games in North America for some reason and it took public persuasion to do it. We also know in the past Nintendo wasn't as open with 3rd party developers on development tools which is why often Nintendo games looked much better. I'm sure they also wanted Nintendo to move forward in the online area.
Then I guess i am an anomaly or just very unique since i own a Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 and also look forward to all the new hardware.
Of course they are. Nintendo as a video game company is scary to many people in the industry simply because Nintendo is a mirror that reflects the sheer lack of know how and business acumen displayed by just about all companies in the video game industry.
gashikunFLCL
Member
That's a loot of wishful thinking. =p
Apophis2036
Banned
Apologies if this has already been posted, a tech guy comparing the rumoured Wii U specs against the PS3 and 360 (very tech heavy video but pleasing from a Nintendo fans point of view) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OcnsG11MRE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OcnsG11MRE8
Louis Cyphre
Banned
And this change in attitude is what Nintendo is fearing. They are seeing the value decrease which is why they are so apprehensive in the tablet/smartphone gaming market. I certainly don't see $40 value in many 3DS games now as when the DS first came out. I also don't see $50 value in games like Call of Duty on the Wii. I hope to see $50 or $60 value in Wii-U games but will they still have that value when the PS4 and new Xbox arrive? that's the key question.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I'm expecting just above PS360 level on screen and I'd be happy with that. My kids are currently playing Kameo right now and I still think it looks great and that's a 6 year old game.
Yes, everything in this post is true. What isn't true however is the notion that nintendo needs to completely cater to a specific shift in tastes if their current business model is still working. Things like online integration and HD support are vital, necessary changes they need to make because that's the future. Incredibly high budgets, reliance on DLC for profit, and raising overall prices for consumers who are getting more and more attached to 99cent games might not be in the same category. Just remember that just because they may no longer cater to your specific tastes, it doesn't mean they suddenly don't cater to the tastes of a widespread audience who are interested in different things than you. This is a very very very difficult concept for the majority of gaf. If nintendo no long services your expectations, that really is too bad, but it's clear that their business model really does work and that millions of gamers are happy with how they conduct business.
That isn't to say that their strategy hasn't been rife with mistakes this past gen, but they obviously did something right. Whether or not they can pull it off again is definitely up for debate.
the 2x-3x ps360 hardware won't translate to a 2x-3x visual leap as that is just a complete imaginary number that completely depends on the end user.
Samaritan ran on 3 580gtx cards, that demo as we saw it will never run on PS4/Xbox3, that will require huge changes to the engine, even running it on the 1 680gtx would still be beyond PS4/Xbox3, those consoles at best will use something akin to a HD7850, as far as power goes, and that is if they go bleeding edge.
Basically that demo required 10x the hardware to produce that 2x 3x visual experience for you, if that is the case, expect next gen to disappoint you; because that sort of jump won't happen for at least 3 years into the ps4/xbox3's life cycle.
gashikunFLCL
Member
That's like your opinion. I see more value in Xenoblade than in FF XIII.
What a dumbass. He actually starts his premise by saying "so it's confirmed the GPU in the WiiU is based..."
Move along, nothing here to see.
And yes, it's been posted (unfortunately).
The 2x-3x talk that is going around is about raw power. How many flops, the amount of RAM etc...
To render a 720p@30fps game in 1080p@60fps, you already need MUCH more than 2x-3x the output from PS360.
Xbox360 GPU does 240 Gflops. Double or trible that, and that is still not enough to run Samaritan in 720p @ 30fps for the moment.
It's all about taste and dependant per release. I don't see why PS4/Xbox Next titles are perceived to have more value because they run on machines with "better" specs.
If you're a part of the 4% that owns all three, in my mind, you're an enthusiast gamer. If you're an enthusiast, you'll be buying the next Nintendo eventually no matter what (just like you'll buy the next Microsoft or Sony console).
But, yes, people who own Wiis are ready for the next one. And I personally think that the customer who uses the Wii for Experience A, but the other guy for Experience B is a customer Nintendo should be worried about. By the only evidence we have (E3 2011), they absolutely are worried about and do care about that customer.
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