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Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]
- Thread starter 3N16MA
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they're not even in the same league. Avengers is incredible.
So you're saying that that sub genre's tenor and style is so good that even if TDK wasn't a great example of it ... it's automatically better than any example of a 'traditional' comic movie? Hm hm...
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Fantastic movie. I loved it. One of the best super hero movies ever.
But I missed the scene after the credits, I'm so stupid. There was the mid-credits scene, and we figured that was it and everyone left.
Sucks man.
But I missed the scene after the credits, I'm so stupid. There was the mid-credits scene, and we figured that was it and everyone left.
Sucks man.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
It's not a fight, it's facing facts. TDK is a good movie. One that will be remembered for years and looked upon as a milestone.
Avengers is that movie where the Hulk kicks some ass with Iron Man and Thor.
Angry Fork
Member
I'm completely dumbfounded by this huge praise for the film I keep reading on every page. It was entertaining but I just can't comprehend the 'incredible' talk and better than Nolan Batman's. It's baffling. I don't think you're looking at this movie objectively and will end up changing your tone 3 months from now.
This.
Nobody has yet to explain why Avengers is so incredible besides the fact that it had lots of action, eye candy and funny lines. However it can be easily explained why Batman Begins and TDK are so important and high-tier for the genre. (And Spiderman 1/2 as well but I'll just leave those off since I don't feel like defending them but they are superior to Avengers).
This.
Nobody has yet to explain why Avengers is so incredible besides the fact that it had lots of action, eye candy and funny lines. However it can be easily explained why Batman Begins and TDK are so important and high-tier for the genre. (And Spiderman 1/2 as well but I'll just leave those off since I don't feel like defending them but they are superior to Avengers).
The Elite
BOSS
Oh, ok.
Wait ... there was something AFTER Thanos??!!?!?
So what you're saying is that you're this guy:
Yes, I missed out on it too because I thought the one you said was it. You can see the other one on youtube. Just search for Avengers and Shawarma.
Avengers takes a hot, steamy, liquid shit all over Iron Man 2 and the rest of the Marvel movies really. Only Iron Man and Thor are even close imo.
AdventureRacing
Member
I didn't really like thor at all. Iron man is definitely my favourite and the only other one i really liked was the hulk (bad movie but i'm a hulk fanboy).
Even if you think TDK is better that doesn't make it fact and i don't see why you are pushing that so hard in a thread that is about the avengers. I prefer batman but i won't shit up this thread with it.
Even if you think TDK is better that doesn't make it fact and i don't see why you are pushing that so hard in a thread that is about the avengers. I prefer batman but i won't shit up this thread with it.
The Elite
BOSS
A lot of people changed their minds on TDK after 3 months too.
Yes.
it was just all of them sitting around eating at the restaurant Stark wanted to go to. The staff is cleaning in the background after the attack and they are sitting around at the table and don't say a word. They just sit there eating in a dazed 'what the fuck just happened' kind of stare.
People have different taste from you? What's shocking about it? And Nolan's Batman is not the be-all and end-all of all superhero films. It has plenty of faults of its own, regardless of what its obsessive fans say.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
No, I'm saying you're dumb. Clearly.
TDK and Avengers are at opposite ends of one same genre. The other works I mentioned have nothing to do with either of them and were mentioned in relation to the misuse of the expression "comic book fan" by TacticalFox.
Yes?
it was hilarious.
The Elite
BOSS
Quoted for posterity.
LOL awesome.
Leave it to Whedon to not only do a double credit scene ... but to have it be this
crimsonspider89
Banned
Alright reason why we say it was incredible:
1) Characterization: Every character from the SHIELD soldier playing Galaga to the heroes had a role and were characterized brilliantly.
2) Character interaction: Each character had realistic interactions with each other and these were reflected throughout the entire movie
3) Parallel of belief of human nature: Loki had the thought of humans want to be ruled and are weak where the heroes had the thought that humans are strong due to the free will and that there freedom drives them to be stronger.
4) The emotional factor: The heroes were shown to be reluctant like real humans would be to team up with other alpha personalities until that emotional factor was shown.
Those are the main reasons people love it. I mean the scene of Nat shaking after the Hulk out was amazing and realistic. Thor still trying to talk sense to his evil brother was something a realistic brother would do.
1) Characterization: Every character from the SHIELD soldier playing Galaga to the heroes had a role and were characterized brilliantly.
2) Character interaction: Each character had realistic interactions with each other and these were reflected throughout the entire movie
3) Parallel of belief of human nature: Loki had the thought of humans want to be ruled and are weak where the heroes had the thought that humans are strong due to the free will and that there freedom drives them to be stronger.
4) The emotional factor: The heroes were shown to be reluctant like real humans would be to team up with other alpha personalities until that emotional factor was shown.
Those are the main reasons people love it. I mean the scene of Nat shaking after the Hulk out was amazing and realistic. Thor still trying to talk sense to his evil brother was something a realistic brother would do.
I don't think you know what you're saying
Yeah. Calling it a soulless action movie is pretty ridiculous. The action is actually pretty sparse. I see plenty of action movies were things are just tossed out there because the film can't engage it's viewers with the story or characters... but not once in this movie did this happen.
I just got back from seeing it and I was just blown away. I maintained from the very first trailer that the movie was going to be shit since I didn't really like Ironman 2, Thor or the Captain America movie (never saw any of the Hulk films). I was so wrong and I couldn't stop grinning when I left the theater.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
So what you're saying is that you're this guy:
Yes and no. I'm that guy. But I say that while having fun playing. Just because I like something doesn't mean it's automatically exempt from criticism. I liked Avengers. Well, the third act, at least. I had fun watching it. But come on, it's mindless entertainment, nothing more.
TDK is already regarded as a milestone. Fact.
We'll see about Avengers.
I'm... not? I only responded to the people saying it's better. When it's not even a contest. It's like comparing Hugo to a 3 Ninjas Movie. Regardless of opinion. I thought we were supposed to discuss things in these threads, not just come in and agree with the general consensus or leave and shut up.
So... you misunderstand my post and get in my case about it. And I'm the one who doesn't know what he's saying?
Angry Fork
Member
I don't buy this opinion talk every person shouts when they defend what they like. It is possible for 1 thing to be better than another. If someone said Transformers 2 was better than Avengers I don't think anyone here would be as willing and nice enough to defend that opinion. Sure that person may genuinely like Transformers 2 more but I think through debate/arguments it can be demonstrated why Avengers is better otherwise let's not have film criticism at all and claim all movies are great it's just a matter of opinion.
Again I haven't seen any real justification for why Avengers can be 'better' (I don't like that word in this context but I'll use it) than Nolan's Batman's. Avengers does nothing that hasn't already been done in countless other action films, except this time it's with everyone's favorite characters. That's the only major factor.
There's nothing meaningful or emotional in this film what so ever, it's all popcorn fun. That's okay I'm not shitting on that but how does that get the 'incredible' level? Because it's multiple amounts of popcorn fun packed into a 2 hour fun fest rather than 90 minutes? I don't get it. If you're going to say you like Avengers more than Batman Begins than you'll have to say you like action more than character development. If that's the case fine but call it like it is. The beauty of stuff like Batman Begins, TDK, Spiderman 2 etc. is that it managed to fuse these 2 elements. That's why they got the respect they did. Avengers didn't try at all and perhaps it's not that kind of movie but for that reason it's not on as high a tier.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
I think we're definitely looking at ~$70m (it's selling out 1am shows. :lol) and $200m for the weekend, which is fucking awesome. 10 years ago, we got the first $100m opening weekend, so I look forward to The Justice League getting $300m in 2022.
LOL, this is the problem with absolutism people like you. Nothing in this world is absolute. And not everything has justification for being liked.
The film was fun, the characters were interesting and everyone gets their share of action, audiences were entertained. Not every film has to have heavy plot to entertain people. The sense of camaraderie between the group was enough to provide the heart/memorable moments for the viewers.
Nolan's Batman tries to make a realistic world out of a story that clearly requires some unrealistic bent to it. After a while, for some people/comic book fans, it gets really tiring and boring. They want to see something fantastic and fun not something that reminds them of the real world. Sure, that realism may appeal to certain people (like you, obviously) but it doesn't mean it'll appeal to everyone.
As for character development, I don't think TDK has superior character development. I find it dull and preachy. I don't consider character brooding the entire film and becoming a martyr for something that wasn't even necessary in the first place to be a good character development.
Just thinking back to it, the scene where
Hulk is chasing Black Widow through the tunnel, the weight of his animation, and the way he plows through the piping so easily but still convincingly
Banner's eyes before the transition. Really got that feeling it was literally the last moment before he lost himself.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
I like you.
Either I'm drunk, or you don't understand the subtext in your posts.
Angry Fork said:
Yes there was. That's subjective opinion on your part, and exactly why this isnt a factual debate. There were scenes in The Avengers that were meaningful and emotional, we've been talking about them throughout this thread.
You can rate TDK higher than The Avengers. I think that's perfectly valid. It's also valid to rate The Avengers higher than TDK. It's subjective,
Things Avengers did better;
- Pacing
- Action
- Dialogue
Things TDK did better:
- Character Development
- Plot
- teh serious
Depending on what you value more, you could easily find one better than the other. Some of you just sound so incredibly uptight and condescending over other people's opinions.
- Pacing
- Action
- Dialogue
Things TDK did better:
- Character Development
- Plot
- teh serious
Depending on what you value more, you could easily find one better than the other. Some of you just sound so incredibly uptight and condescending over other people's opinions.
crimsonspider89
Banned
There weren't many plot twists. But to say it was all action is bullshit and stupid. Plenty of emotional moments and showed the issues each character faced.
BW- had to go up against one of her closest team mates in Hawkeye and had to deal with a certified monster in the Hulk at the beginning and when he transformed which terrified her.
Hawkeye- Had a guilt issue after being controlled by Loki and had to confront that issue in the brief time.
Bruce- Had to work with an agency that wanted to capture him as well endangering everyone near him at all times.
Cap- Had to learn a new world as dealing with a threat greater than himself as well with things he didn't think was possible.
Thor- Had to save a planet as well as fight his own brother and bring him to justice. Tell me anybody has not had those bad brothers who you don't know what to do.
IM- Had to work with a military organization after he gave up weapons and with those he did not trust.
All of these characters have personalities we can understand. I even left out Fury. To say this movie was a mindless popcorn film is ridiculous.
Also TDK was overrated due to the death of Heath Ledger. Honest truth.
BW- had to go up against one of her closest team mates in Hawkeye and had to deal with a certified monster in the Hulk at the beginning and when he transformed which terrified her.
Hawkeye- Had a guilt issue after being controlled by Loki and had to confront that issue in the brief time.
Bruce- Had to work with an agency that wanted to capture him as well endangering everyone near him at all times.
Cap- Had to learn a new world as dealing with a threat greater than himself as well with things he didn't think was possible.
Thor- Had to save a planet as well as fight his own brother and bring him to justice. Tell me anybody has not had those bad brothers who you don't know what to do.
IM- Had to work with a military organization after he gave up weapons and with those he did not trust.
All of these characters have personalities we can understand. I even left out Fury. To say this movie was a mindless popcorn film is ridiculous.
Also TDK was overrated due to the death of Heath Ledger. Honest truth.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
It's all sexual tension.
You know what, fuck this... I like you, why on earth am I getting up in arms about nothing, here. Bah.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Avengers is anything but soulless. The plot is just as relevant as that of any of the Batman flicks. Considering pacing, it is widely accepted that TDK has a very bad final 1/3rd, especially when compared to BB. And speaking of the action. The main critique of Nolan films to date, has been the lack luster composition of his action scenes. Which he should hopefully work to improve with his new DK flick coming this summer.
I don't agree. Go back a few pages, and you will see that many posters believe that this movie was magical in a way no superhero flick has yet to have been. How the characters were themselves, how the world of the Avengers was not tainted by making compromises for the big screen. Something onsuch a scale that no other superhero film to date has done.
Why couldn't Transformers be as good as this? Didn't they have similar budgets >.>
Heh.
I like you too. I think we both need a beer.
Yes. Throwing money at things ALWAYS guarantees quality
Raitosaito
Member
I liked Star Trek though Duck
The consensus is that Star Trek overcame a weak script due to good casting and direction. Transformers, not so much.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
'' A supernova threatened to destroy the galaxy.''
It was fun, but that was in no part due to the writing. lol.
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