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[KageMaru]

Trying to read up on the contract while at work, the more I read, the more I'm convinced that resources and quality control would be the reasons if this didn't turn up on the ps3 on day one.

In six months, being a new IP?

It's a risky endeavor. 5 million is a very good selling game, one of the best ever for the 360. That's a lot of confidence in a new IP, released on only one platform.

I'd hate to see talent be wasted and an IP thrown out because the game didn't meet unrealistic expectations.

Most games of this type are typically front loaded. So it likely wouldn't make much of a difference if it was 6 months or a year.

Besides, Bungie has a huge following, and with the right marketing push (which we all know Activision is capable of), the game could sell tons.

 

[Visualante2]

Controlling a promotional message to maximise impact is *very* important. Surprise is powerful.

Just because PR flaks would have you believe that, doesn't make it so. Half the time I think they just have an inflated self worth and are trying to justify their jobs existence.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

- Timed Exclusive for 360
- Has to sell 5 million (in 6 months) or contract is terminated

Those two requirements kind of work against each other...

For reference Halo Reach sold 5 million in its entire lifetime.
However MW3 sold 6 million in its first day...

Reach sold 5 million in a year in NPD USA.

Lol at being a "Bungie fan" who doesn't own a 360.

 

[Basch]

This is all so exciting. Another smart move by Microsoft. Thankfully, I still got my 360 and hope the 720 is out by then so I can pick up that version instead.

 

[LQX]

Just because PR flaks would have you believe that, doesn't make it so. Half the time I think they just have an inflated self worth and are trying to justify their jobs existence.

Are kidding? How is being in control of your message not important? Just look how a few years here it was hard to get excited abut MS E3 because we practically knew every before it started. People love anticipation even something like a Apple products where what you will be told is beyond obvious.

 

[minasodaboy]

I swear that half the people commenting in this thread have never seen anything remotely resembling a large business contract. That there is very specific language about how Bungie is expected to deliver the project should not be surprising at all.

According to the terms of this contract, Activision is potentially investing HUNDREDS of millions of dollars in Bungie and their new IP (that Bungie pitched to Activision as something they wanted to work on for 10 years NOT the other way around). So of course the contractual language is going to be very specific regarding the focus Bungie will have as a studio, the points at which Activision can expect to start seeing returns on their investment (i.e. release dates), etc.

Whether or not you think Bungie is being overly ambitious here is certainly a valid point for debate.

(My guess is that Bungie would even agree with you that it is a very agressive, risky and ambitious 10 year plan.)

 

[lucius]

So Microsoft gets one year exclusive to Bungies new franchise, which has to be a direct result of one of the conditions they could break free from Microsoft. Nothing else makes sense because this will hurt the new IP in the long run, you will never do COD numbers on one system, some gamers will just pass since they won't get to play the 1st game. Smart move by Microsoft, now it makes much more sense why they finally let Bungie go. I don't buy the Bungie knows only Xbox hardware excuse, as talented as they are working with Activision they could have figured things out on other systems, plus Bungies the one company that could have and deserves to do COD numbers or better, too bad it will never happen now.

 

[derFeef]

Why do people assume Bungie needed conditions to break free from MS? The contract was over.

 

[Visualante2]

Are kidding? How is being in control of your message not important? Just look how a few years here it was hard to get excited abut MS E3 because we practically knew every before it started. People love anticipation even something like a Apple products where what you will be told is beyond obvious.

If being in control of your message means doling it out in meaningless chunks, as is the case with Bungie PR then they can skip the foreplay and go fuck themselves.

I want to see gameplay, and developers talking honestly about their product. Not 3 seconds of multiplayer interspersed with "So yeah we really wanted to do something new with Halo, we wanted to make it our own" for the 6th time. Why Mega64 hasn't parodied the Bungie teasers is beyond me.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

So Microsoft gets one year exclusive to Bungies new franchise, which has to be a direct result of one of the conditions they could break free from Microsoft. Nothing else makes sense because this will hurt the new IP in the long run, you will never do COD numbers on one system, some gamers will just pass since they won't get to play the 1st game. Smart move by Microsoft, now it makes much more sense why they finally let Bungie go. I don't buy the Bungie knows only Xbox hardware excuse, as talented as they are working with Activision they could have figured things out on other systems, plus Bungies the one company that could have and deserves to do COD numbers or better, too bad it will never happen now.

They'll get to play the game, just one year after 360 owners.

 

[LQX]

If being in control of your message means doling it out in meaningless chunks, as is the case with Bungie PR then they can skip the foreplay and go fuck themselves.

I want to see gameplay, and developers talking honestly about their product. Not 3 seconds of multiplayer interspersed with "So yeah we really wanted to do something new with Halo, we wanted to make it our own" for the 6th time. Why Mega64 hasn't parodied the Bungie teasers is beyond me.

Oh jeez.

 

[Kintaro]

Really amazing that after breaking off from MS, Bungie would tie themselves to Activision like this.

 

[JdFoX187]

Reach sold 5 million in a year in NPD USA.

Lol at being a "Bungie fan" who doesn't own a 360.

Bungie made plenty of games before they were acquired by Microsoft.

 

[KageMaru]

So Microsoft gets one year exclusive to Bungies new franchise, which has to be a direct result of one of the conditions they could break free from Microsoft. Nothing else makes sense because this will hurt the new IP in the long run, you will never do COD numbers on one system, some gamers will just pass since they won't get to play the 1st game. Smart move by Microsoft, now it makes much more sense why they finally let Bungie go. I don't buy the Bungie knows only Xbox hardware excuse, as talented as they are working with Activision they could have figured things out on other systems, plus Bungies the one company that could have and deserves to do COD numbers or better, too bad it will never happen now.

Actually your assumption doesn't even make sense.

Also, no one (including Bungie and Activision) is expecting Destiny to do CoD numbers.

Why do people assume Bungie needed conditions to break free from MS? The contract was over.

Because people need to make up imaginary reasons to make themselves feel better over matters they don't fully understand.

MS had first rights refusal after the conditions that have already been fulfilled and it's unlikely this had any effect on Bungie's contract with Activision as MS would have already refused the project at this point.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Are kidding? How is being in control of your message not important? Just look how a few years here it was hard to get excited abut MS E3 because we practically knew every before it started. People love anticipation even something like a Apple products where what you will be told is beyond obvious.

E3 excitement doesn't sell games and consoles. The PR hype cycle and secrecy is one of the most overrated things about gaming.

 

[Glass Rebel]

They'll get to play the game, just one year after 360 owners.

What about PC gamers?

 

[Cornbread78]

Wow, this is garbage, especially if it is an MMO, that continues from one installment to the next, which means PC and PS3 owners will be way behind when their versions launch.

At the same time, doesn't MS forbid mixed servers for anything not called FF11?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

What about PC gamers?

You have Solitaire and Minesweeper, don't complain.

I'd imagine there'd be a PC version too, although maybe not until 6-12 months after the 360 version.

 

[lucius]

They'll get to play the game, just one year after 360 owners.

Yeah should have said play the game at launch, a year is a long time in gaming though potential buyers of the game will just pass because of that, defintely not a great way to start a big new franchise but they likely had no other choice, was the cost of their freedom from Microsoft.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Bungie made plenty of games before they were acquired by Microsoft.

Not in the last ten years.

I think Jason Jones is one of the few people remaining from those days, and god knows what he's doing right now.

 

[LQX]

E3 excitement doesn't sell games and consoles. The PR hype cycle and secrecy is one of the most overrated things about gaming.

Marketing your product is important as hell even if you dudes are convinced none of it works on you. Never said E3(though I think it does) is what sells games and console but how the hell can you discount the fact excitement if not anticipation doesn't sell a product? Check how the Sega Saturn fared after they just threw it on the market.

 

[Kem0sabe]

What about PC gamers?

Bungie is not a pc company, they don´t make games for PC, they don´t even port most of their games to the pc, and those that are ported aren´t done so by them... heck... the original Halo was meant for the Mac not the PC, even their Marathon games were for the Mac.

I don´t think we will see a pc game from them in the next generation.

 

[Glass Rebel]

You have Solitaire and Minesweeper, don't complain.

I'd imagine there'd be a PC version too, although maybe not until 6-12 months after the 360 version.

Not complaining, just asking. It would be a very bad idea to have a story/lore-"heavy" game start at the second entry.

Bungie is not a pc company, they don´t make games for PC, they don´t even port most of their games to the pc, and those that are ported aren´t done so by them... heck... the original Halo was meant for the Mac not the PC, even their Marathon games were for the Mac.

I don´t think we will see a pc game from them in the next generation.

It's planned for PC though.

 

[Spawnling]

False assumptions, everywhere. I'm sure that Bungie will shed some light on the subject and clear up a few things in the next couple weeks.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Not complaining, just asking. It would be a very bad idea to have a story/lore-"heavy" game start at the second entry.

I was joking with the part about complaining But yeah, it would be strange for Activision as a publisher to not make a PC version down the road, so I'd be confident a PC version would arrive 6-12 months after the 360 version.

 

[Skilotonn]

I doubt it´s an MMO... it´s an MMO style shooter, i doubt that if it was a persistent world MMO they would launch 4 versions of it from 2013 to 2019 plus expansions.

Just speculating here, but this reminds me of what Activision seems to be striving towards with each CoD release and it´s Elite service.

Oh... and i do know how silly i look at the moment, after all i´m typing away on an internet message board while wearing a neon sign vest and a hard hat.

Well, a massively multiplayer-style game that's online is an MMO, and whether it's persistent or not, you can bet that it will be supported with DLC/expansions/updates seeing as Bungie has been doing this since before this gen. Halo 3 ODST is a great example of this as well.

Bungie even had the online stat tracking up before Elite did, and for free.

The only thing remotely close is the subscription, and that comes with the territory for MMO's.

But that would be a great sight to spot someone in a neon sign vest & hard hat posting on a videogame forum, yeah.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Bungie made plenty of games before they were acquired by Microsoft.

The last Myth game was 13 years ago.

 

[Kintaro]

Bungie is not a pc company, they don´t make games for PC, they don´t even port most of their games to the pc, and those that are ported aren´t done so by them... heck... the original Halo was meant for the Mac not the PC, even their Marathon games were for the Mac.

I don´t think we will see a pc game from them in the next generation.

<looks at contract>

Not according these details.

Also, Bungie has worked on Windows versions of their games. Marathon 2, Myth series and Oni. PC development was common for them.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Marketing your product is important as hell even if you dudes are convinced none of it works on you. Never said E3(though I think it does) is what sells games and console but how the hell can you discount the fact excitement if not anticipation doesn't sell a product? Check how the Sega Saturn fared after they just threw it on the market.

How is that remotely comparable? We know about its existence now, instead of knowing about it 2 weeks or 12 months from now. It's like the UMVC3 leaks last year, did anyone really change their purchasing decision because all the characters were leaked at once instead of trickled out slowly for months? It's not like they're going to cancel all future media release because they're butthurt about the leak. PR people need a reason to justify their salaries. At the end of the day, a GI cover, a Spike awards trailer, and a decent ad campaign are still going to bring in the pre-orders, not viral marketing, I Love Bees nonsense, and fill-in-the-pixel web teaser countdowns.

If anyone had a chance it was Bungie with a new shooter, but yeah COD numbers may be unrealistic. Starting with a year exlusive to one system still makes no business sense, why eliminate 3-7 million( maybe more) potential sales, unless you had no other choice unless Microsoft also gave the likem 50-100 million in cash.

But it's not one system.

The 360 and 720 makes it a multiplatform launch. In a way, they are already hedging their bets on the first game.

 

[lucius]

Actually your assumption doesn't even make sense.

Also, no one (including Bungie and Activision) is expecting Destiny to do CoD numbers

If anyone had a chance it was Bungie with a new shooter, but yeah COD numbers may be unrealistic. Starting with a year exlusive to one system still makes no business sense, why eliminate 3-7 million( maybe more) potential sales, unless you had no other choice unless Microsoft also gave the likem 50-100 million in cash.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Well, a massively multiplayer-style game that's online is an MMO, and whether it's persistent or not, you can bet that it will be supported with DLC/expansions/updates seeing as Bungie has been doing this since before this gen. Halo 3 ODST is a great example of this as well.

Bungie even had the online stat tracking up before Elite did, and for free.

The only thing remotely close is the subscription, and that comes with the territory for MMO's.

But that would be a great sight to spot someone in a neon sign vest & hard hat posting on a videogame forum, yeah.

I´m the most pimping civil engineer i know

Bungie has always done right by their fans, i just hope the tight schedule doesn´t lead to FIFA like sequels.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

If you look at the 5 million in 6 months thing the other way, it means that if Destiny sells that amount, Activision can't drop bungie for some bullshit reason without having to pay a breach of contract fee. That said, I don't know why they'd drop something that popular.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Bungie has some big balls to sign this contract. Damn. So is 720 an official name or just a contract term? I always thought is was a community made name but seeing it from official parties is intriguing.

 

[KageMaru]

If anyone had a chance it was Bungie with a new shooter, but yeah COD numbers may be unrealistic. Starting with a year exlusive to one system still makes no business sense, why eliminate 3-7 million( maybe more) potential sales, unless you had no other choice unless Microsoft also gave the likem 50-100 million in cash.

Read the contract, the possibility to the one year exclusive arrangement makes sense once you do.

Also think about it. If MS were to pay up that insane amount of cash, they would want the project exclusive for the entire 10 year contract. No title is worth that much for only a one year window. It was all about quality control, resource management, and scheduling.

Bungie has some big balls to sign this contract. Damn. So is 720 an official name or just a contract term?

The ball was in Bungie's court when this contract was written and signed, these are easily their terms, not Activision's.

Also 720 is just a contract term used in the document to refer to the successor to the 360.

 

[Petrichor]

Bungie has some big balls to sign this contract. Damn. So is 720 an official name or just a contract term? I always thought is was a community made name but seeing it from official parties is intriguing.

The contract was signed mid-2010 at the latest (judging by the halo reach clause) so the final name probably wasn't even known by microsoft then, let alone activision

 

[iamshadowlark]

The ball was in Bungie's court when this contract was written and signed, these are easily their terms, not Activision's.

Also 720 is just a contract term used in the document to refer to the successor to the 360.

I beg to differ. Surely most of this is Activision's terms.

 

[Kintaro]

The ball was in Bungie's court when this contract was written and signed, these are easily their terms, not Activision's.

Activision is way too savvy for some of these conditions to not be written by them.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Read the contract, the possibility to the one year exclusive arrangement makes sense once you do.

Also think about it. If MS were to pay up that insane amount of cash, they would want the project exclusive for the entire 10 year contract. No title is worth that much for only a one year window. It was all about quality control, resource management, and scheduling.

MS loaned Rockstar $50 million in exchange for timed exclusivity for the GTA episodes. The perception of being "first" and "best" in the eyes of consumers is very important in the early years of a console's life. MS is probably banking that few of Bungie's fans is going to wait a year for a PS3 port that obviously won't be as good as the 720 version.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I beg to differ. Surely most of this is Activision's terms.

Bungie are getting at least 20% of the royalties for these games. That's pretty much unheard of for independant developers. Bungie at least held the reigns in this agreement. Whether they promised more than they'll be able to pull off is another story.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Bungie are getting at least 20% of the royalties for these games. That's pretty much unheard of for independant developers. Bungie at least held the reigns in this agreement. Whether they promised more than they'll be able to pull off is another story.

Bungie isn't just any independent developer. Halo was the shit for many years and to this day its still a powerful franchise. Their name probably enabled them to negotiate these great rates but c'mon. This is easily one of the most restrictive demanding contracts any developer has ever had.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Bungie isn't just any independent developer. Halo was the shit for many years and to this day its still a powerful franchise. Their name probably enabled them to negotiate these great rates but c'mon. This is easily one of the most restrictive demanding contracts any developer has ever had.

I think his point is that most development contracts are much, much worse; we just never get a chance to see them. Scary thought, that this might be as good as it gets.

 

[Rednax]

Fuck this whole thing seriously. And planning games until 2020, are you kidding me? Does anyone in the industry even have a clue what types of games will still be profitable then?

 

[Woorloog]

Fuck this whole thing seriously. And planning games until 2020, are you kidding me? Does anyone in the industry even have a clue what types of games will still be profitable then?

Activision clearly does, they can terminate the contract after the second XPACK for any reason.

 

[KageMaru]

I beg to differ. Surely most of this is Activision's terms.

Activision is way too savvy for some of these conditions to not be written by them.

Of course Activision had some say so in the contract, no company would sign anything that was purely one-sided, they do want to gain something from this agreement as well.

However reading it so far, it seems like Bungie had a set of requirements they weren't willing to bend on. On top of this, it looks like Bungie has some say so in actions that Activision would also take on their property (such as the porting conditions).

Basically what I'm saying is that this contract is more for Bungie to gain and almost nothing to lose, where Activision is taking the larger bet and all the risk.

MS loaned Rockstar $50 million in exchange for timed exclusivity for the GTA episodes. The perception of being "first" and "best" in the eyes of consumers is very important in the early years of a console's life. MS is probably banking that few of Bungie's fans is going to wait a year for a PS3 port that obviously won't be as good as the 720 version.

Yes, and you would think such a loan would be detailed in this contract, which it isn't, at least with what I've read so far.

Assuming I'm understanding everything correctly so far, the contract says: No compromises to their original version will be made for the sake of multi-platform development, technical analysis of the PS3 version will be made to make sure that version can reach feature parity in all aspects and this analysis should have been finished by January 31, 2011, and commercial analysis should have been done by March 31, 2011.

Basically Bungie planned their original vision for the game based on the platform they already know and are taking a no compromise approach with it's development. Even though it's safe to say the PS3 version would hit feature/tech/content parity, they did not wish to make any commitments on an unfamiliar platform before conducting their analysis.

In no way do I see how "moneyhatting" fits into any of these factors. They want to make the game they want to make without bending to the will of the publisher.

Edit:

Bungie isn't just any independent developer. Halo was the shit for many years and to this day its still a powerful franchise. Their name probably enabled them to negotiate these great rates but c'mon. This is easily one of the most restrictive demanding contracts any developer has ever had.

It's a contract that Bungie agreed to and had a part in the creation of. Also, before you make claims to restrictive demands, you should really look into requirements other developers have to face first. Bungie has full creative control, full ownership over IP, influence in the porting process of their IP, and that's all on top of the financial benefits they have Activision agreeing to.

Other developers have it MUCH worse.

 

[minasodaboy]

Ok, so many people here seem to have a major problem with the contract, its terms, etc.

What would acceptable terms be to you in the following scenario?

• We'll need ~$140,000,000 to develop a product (and maybe that number a couple more times after that)
• It is a brand new IP with no guarantee of ROI
• But trust us, it's going to be awesome
• Oh and we want to keep all rights to make money in other areas based directly off of the product you're investing in

So tell me, are you really going to give someone $140,000,000+ with carte blanche and zero to very minimal checks and balances?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Ok, so many people here seem to have a major problem with the contract, its terms, etc.

What would acceptable terms be to you in the following scenario?

• We'll need ~$140,000,000 to develop a product (and maybe that number a couple more times after that)
• It is a brand new IP with no guarantee of ROI
• But trust us, it's going to be awesome
• Oh and we want to keep all rights to make money in other areas based directly off of the product you're investing in

So tell me, are you really going to give someone $140,000,000+ with carte blanche and zero to very minimal checks and balances?

This is a third rate deal for a top shelf developer. That "someone" is one of the most well known western development companies in gaming.
The very fact they are Bungie and have a following that pretty much guarantees a million + lifetime seller should have been enough to calm investor nerves

 

[Glass Rebel]

This is a third rate deal for a top shelf developer. That "someone" is one of the most well known western development companies in gaming.
The very fact they are Bungie and have a following that pretty much guarantees a million + lifetime seller should have been enough to calm investor nerves

What's a "first rate" deal to you then? Pubs were most likely lining up to sign Bungie and Activision outbid EA. Seriously, why are people trying to spin this as a bad thing for Bungie?

 

[minasodaboy]

This is a third rate deal for a top shelf developer. That "someone" is one of the most well known western development companies in gaming.
The very fact they are Bungie and have a following that pretty much guarantees a million + lifetime seller should have been enough to calm investor nerves

My main point is that you don't get $140,000,000 without conditions, especially when that $140,000,000 has really no risk of bankrupting Bungie. Sure if this project fails to meet every minimum expectation in the contract they will have to scale back from the 300+ they are now, but they'll still exist and will be ready to go pitch a new deal to someone else.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Bungie isn't just any independent developer. Halo was the shit for many years and to this day its still a powerful franchise. Their name probably enabled them to negotiate these great rates but c'mon. This is easily one of the most restrictive demanding contracts any developer has ever had.

You know this... How? He just pointed out to you that this contract is better than what 99% of independent developers get, and then you say it's "easily one of the most restrictive demanding contracts any developer has ever had" ??

 

[FieryBalrog]

This is a third rate deal for a top shelf developer. That "someone" is one of the most well known western development companies in gaming.
The very fact they are Bungie and have a following that pretty much guarantees a million + lifetime seller should have been enough to calm investor nerves

Just like a Star Wars MMO made by freaking Bioware can't possibly fail amirite?