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[zroid]

is this really that hard to get? they ask the fans if they want to pay for the site and have it ad free. if not its okay. if they want thats great.

I don't know, people are always looking for conspiracy or machination in everything these days.

If you don't want to contribute, don't. No need to throw insults their way over an experiment. Either way, the result of the KS will be the ultimate decider of whether this was a good idea. Not a bunch of people crying foul.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I love the site, but I see no reason why the fans should have to shell out when ad revenue seems to be working just fine for them. Was there a lot of outcry about intrusive ads or something?

 

[Forever]

For the new page because some people are still herp derping about this being some kind of statement against Kickstarter.

Zuh? They already have a bunch of money, they don't need any of this. It has to be a statement on Kickstarter.

HERP DERP (This is Tycho)

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/06/29 - Promotes two Kickstarters
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/06/04 - Promotes a Kickstarter
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/05/25 - "I do have a Kickstarter problem"

I think that I could elaborate in a very robust way on my reasoning for backing any specific project; it would run the gamut from “flights of fancy” to “social pressure” to any other damn thing. At a very low level, though, somewhere in my brain’s ineffable primality, I hate it - hate it - when cool ideas, or people who have cool ideas, are unable to realize them because they haven’t collected enough green pieces of paper. That’s the White Trash in me coming out; I’ve talked about him before. Get me mad enough, and you’ll hear him: the way he snaps off a trailing G, the way his teeth make a tongue prison. But that variant has a deep loathing for the undulations of class which serve primarily to strangle the real. I very nearly typed that entire sentence in all caps; there he goes again.

The long and the short of it is that I’ve never has a methodology whereby three clicks can obviate some measure of this fucking stupid-ass crap.

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/05/11 - Promotes a Kickstarter
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/05/08 - "I was sort of bummed when the Kickstarter succeeded because I loved going back for updates and seeing what people were building."
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/05/04 - "Despite not wanting to be the Kickfather, it seems like it keeps happening. Not every time I want it to, of course: it’s not actually something I have control over."
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/05/02 - "Still on my Kickstarter thing, and there’s a couple really, really successful ones we need to take a look at: Zombicide and Ogre: Designer’s Edition."
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/04/25 - Promotes a Kickstarter
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/04/13 - Promotes a Kickstarter

PA Report Feature on a Kickstarter

Do I need to go further? Sit down and eat your crow.

 

[megalowho]

250k to replace ad revenue sounds reasonable to me, and spread over quite a few employees and both are married with kids.. that ain't getting rich money.

$1m to replace ad revenue. $250k is just the first milestone in the ad removal process.

 

[Acosta]

Friendly tip to no one in particular: you would be happier if you did'n try to define what is not yours to define.

Kickstarter role and objectives are defined by the owners.

Penny-Arcade business is defined by them and doing a Kickstarter is their prerrogative. How much money they have is irrelevant.

How anyone spend is money it's their problem, fan or not.

Sure, you can say is lame and all, that's why we are here after all, but the idea of Crowdsourcing is just bout letting people pay for what they want, nothing else, nothing more.

I won't back this, by the way. I like PA but I don't care for the ads. I'm just defending that the core idea of crowdsourcing remains in any case.

 

[Ghost Dad the Whip]

More like Nickel & Dime Arcade, right guys?

*claps*

 

[Diprosalic]

I love the site, but I see no reason why the fans should have to shell out when ad revenue seems to be working just fine for them. Was there a lot of outcry about intrusive ads or something?

they don't have to. they're not shutting down nor will they lockout any content if this will not get funded. they ran on donations once and enjoyed it a lot more than cater to advertisers and have banners on their site.

they ask their fans if they want to go back to the old thing. nobody is forced to pay for anything and everybody will still have the same content.

 

[Übermatik]

This is brilliant

 

[Row]

I think people misunderstand the concept of kickstarter. Hint: it's not "here's our idea, fund it or we'll kill your whole family"


Not every idea or project is going to follow the "dying/starving dev team desperately wanting to make a legitimate sequel to a PC game that was popular 10 years ago" narrative.

They need money to run the site. Ad revenue is an important source but limits them creatively and might annoy some people. They want to kick ads without going broke themselves. Thus, kickstarter: the crowd funding site that doesn't threaten to kill your whole family if you don't want to pay. And with this one, you either benefit from other people's contributions or the kickstarter fails and nothing changes.

how is that bad/evil

it's not evil, but a strong argument can be made that it's sleazy, sad, pathetic, and incredibly lazy

anyways I'm off to go make a kickstarter to pay my rent and utilities because working for it takes to much effort

 

[Akainu]

I guess they don't want to be friends with any psn users.

 

[NervousXtian]

$1m to replace ad revenue. $250k is just the first milestone in the ad removal process.

525 seems to remove even their OWN ads.

 

[Elginer]

What...

I thought Gabe and Tycho were rich as fuck.

They are, they just want more monies lol,.

 

[SteveWD40]

They need money to run the site. Ad revenue is an important source but limits them creatively and might annoy some people. They want to kick ads without going broke themselves. Thus, kickstarter: the crowd funding site that doesn't threaten to kill your whole family if you don't want to pay. And with this one, you either benefit from other people's contributions or the kickstarter fails and nothing changes.

Good way to put it, they will become the BBC, not worried about pissing of corporate sponsors and will have more freedom to be critical.

 

[Coolwhip]

Is this is real and not a joke it all sounds a bit shady. Why piss off your advertisers by doing this? Or is it a get rich quick scheme? /confused

 

[Pie and Beans]

Honestly I'm utterly bowled over by the scummy-ness of this. Not only is it frankly preposterous that Tycho and Gabe could even suggest theyre overworked with the amount of work they put into ads compared to what they could be putting into personal projects, but worse still is that this will now be a yearly thing. Kickstarter is now an annual salary accumulator. Surely that is the very antithesis to the site's purpose of kickstarting things, not kickrunning things.

I was a big Penny Arcade fan, its waned as the strip's quality and their continual downward spiral of being anywhere near in sync with non internet celebrity millionaires. But that they'd now stoop to a level where theyre actually competing with not only other small startups but their own charity on peoples wallet contents to make their own working lives easier is just so low I'm struggling to comprehend how this isn't a huge joke and wasn't stopped by the one person saying "this is surely poisoning the well?". I know this $100 could go to a better charity like curing cancer or something, but apparently sourcing ad revenue is hard! Oh well, here you go.

I've joked in the past about Kickstarter eroding the very establishment of societal wages and working for money, but here we are. A company asking for a million upfront, very few strings attached, and we'll be back again for next year's wages. No accountability, no say, fuck you.

 

[Kusagari]

It's not so much the idea I'm against, but the whole thing just comes off as odd to me.

The rewards are basically the same shit they derided in their webcomic on crappy kickstarters.

 

[ampere]

The video was amusing and the Penny Arcade office looks like a pretty great place to work.

I've been a fan of the site for years as well, but I don't really see a problem with the status quo where the site is paid for by ads. Perhaps they as artists feel censored or at the whim of the advertisers, but I'm not really getting that vibe. Good luck to them in this Kickstarter campaign I suppose.

 

[Row]

Good way to put it, they will become the BBC, not worried about pissing of corporate sponsors and will have more freedom to be critical.

yea, that PA, always pushing the envelope..

the "limits our creativity" spiel is a terrible attempt by them to justify this

 

[Diprosalic]

They are, they just want more monies lol,.

no, they are trying replacing the source.

 

[Seraphinianus]

it's not evil, but a strong argument can be made that it's sleazy, sad, pathetic, and incredibly lazy

anyways I'm off to go make a kickstarter to pay my rent and utilities because working for it takes to much effort

ok, where's this strong argument? You can't just say "there's a strong argument to be made" then say nothing. The phrase indicates you have an actual argument that you are about to present.

And just saying a few negative adjectives afterwards didn't count as an argument.

 

[Lothars]

it's not evil, but a strong argument can be made that it's sleazy, sad, pathetic, and incredibly lazy

anyways I'm off to go make a kickstarter to pay my rent and utilities because working for it takes to much effort

yes but that argument would be wrong, if this succeeds great than they don't have an ad's if it doesn't that's fine to.

There's nothing sleazy about this, they don't want to have ads on the site but they can't just get rid of ads without having an alternate source of paying for the site.

I have no issue with them doing it.

 

[chiablo]

My suggestion for the $750,000 bracket...

Send Mike Krahulik to an orthodontist. That guy's teeth are terrifying.

 

[galvatron]

I wouldn't pay anyone to pretend to be my friend on Twitter. Good god.

Joke or no joke, if you were an indy game dev, a $500 retweet from these guys on launch might be the best advertising bargain you'd find.

In fact, it's SUCH a good deal that it is what most makes this Kickstarter look like a joke (yes, moreso than the comic with similar rewards).

 

[FStop7]

Good way to put it, they will become the BBC, not worried about pissing of corporate sponsors and will have more freedom to be critical.

Have they ever lacked the freedom to be critical in the last several years?

 

[SteveWD40]

yea, that PA, always pushing the envelope..

the "limits our creativity" spiel is a terrible attempt by them to justify this

We can agree to disagree then, I am not 100% advocating this as I think it's a slight abuse of the concept of Kickstarter but I am not jumping on the bandwagon of vilifying them either.

I can see why they might do it in other words but I am sure Gaf being Gaf they will be tar'd and feathered by page 10.

 

[megalowho]

Good way to put it, they will become the BBC, not worried about pissing of corporate sponsors and will have more freedom to be critical.

Has that ever been a problem for them? I'd like to see some evidence of an idea/comic they had that they didn't run because it pissed off their advertising partners.

 

[ultron87]

Honestly I'm utterly bowled over by the scummy-ness of this. Not only is it frankly preposterous that Tycho and Gabe could even suggest theyre overworked with the amount of work they put into ads compared to what they could be putting into personal projects, but worse still is that this will now be a yearly thing. Kickstarter is now an annual salary accumulator. Surely that is the very antithesis to the site's purpose of kickstarting things, not kickrunning things.

Where do they ever suggest this in any of the Kickstarter material?

 

[SteveWD40]

Have they ever lacked the freedom to be critical in the last several years?

I believe so yes, they had to pull at least 2 comics I recall due to advertisers kicking off.

Has that ever been a problem for them? I'd like to see some evidence of an idea/comic they had that they didn't run because it pissed off their advertising partners.

Well I don't have it, so maybe I should refrain from that line of argument, I remember it coming up on the forums there but it was years ago.

 

[El Sloth]

Nice video.

 

[Diprosalic]

Joke or no joke, if you were an indy game dev, a $500 retweet from these guys on launch might be the best advertising bargain you'd find.

In fact, it's SUCH a good deal that it is what most makes this Kickstarter look like a joke (yes, moreso than the comic with similar rewards).

that's what i though. a guy once said a mention of your game/product on penny arcade is a touch of gold. 500$ for a retweet is a bargain. if i had something to sell i would buy that in a heartbeat.

Has that ever been a problem for them? I'd like to see some evidence of an idea/comic they had that they didn't run because it pissed off their advertising partners.

maybe they didn't even attempt to make those comics since they knew they would piss advertisers off?

 

[The Wizard]

I only visit the site now and then and the ads are not bothersome to me to a degree that I would rather pay money for them to be removed. Also this is for only for one year of no ads, they'll need to raise those goals annually for it to remain ad-free forever.

 

[GamerVoice]

Good way to put it, they will become the BBC, not worried about pissing of corporate sponsors and will have more freedom to be critical.

The BBC is an institution with a history of making the greatest products in its various media.

Penny Arcade make shit and fart jokes and some half hearted "gamerz commentaries"

 

[Row]

yes but that argument would be wrong, if this succeeds great than they don't have an ad's if it doesn't that's fine to.

There's nothing sleazy about this, they don't want to have ads on the site but they can't just get rid of ads without having an alternate source of paying for the site.

I have no issue with them doing it.

ok, where's this strong argument? You can't just say "there's a strong argument to be made" then say nothing. The phrase indicates you have an actual argument that you are about to present.

And just saying a few negative adjectives afterwards didn't count as an argument.

Using kickstarter for no reason other than to pay salaries is sleazy, and incredibly lazy because they clearly don't like to actually work like everybody else who needs to find legitimate ways of keeping their sites profitable or atleast afloat. The fact they're using kickstarter in such a way is sad and pathetic given their reasoning.

Better?

 

[El Sloth]

The video makes it pretty clear that it's not a joke. Don't see how anyone who actually clicked the link in the OP could think this is a joke.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Using kickstarter for no reason other than to pay salaries is sleazy, and incredibly lazy because they clearly don't like to actually work like everybody else who needs to find legitimate ways of keeping their sites profitable or atleast afloat. The fact they're using kickstarter in such a way is sad and pathetic given their reasoning.

Better?

oh, you bolded adjectives. I am so convinced now.


no, that was terrible, you clearly have nothing interesting to say about this. sorry

 

[Pie and Beans]

Where do they ever suggest this in any of the Kickstarter material?

all here really, the point of this whole shindig is clear:

cwgabriel ‏@cwgabriel
I don't want to spoil some of the un-lockables but if we aren't making projects for advertisers we are free to make projects for you.

Aren't these stretch goals extra work that is going unpaid? Isn't that sort of taking away from the value of the money raised?
That's how we're earning the money! We'd be working directly for you when we make more Penny Arcade. We think this is a better system, and we hope you agree.

What are your advertising guys going to do without this work?
We're going to shift them from "sell ad space" jobs to "make things" jobs. That's the company we intend to be. They were nervous at first, but now they can't stop thinking about what's next. It's all human bandwidth we can put toward the next surprise.

"We can't do these things as well as source ad revenue." Its very wink wink nudge nudge I guess, but certainly the core push isnt "oh arent banner ads annoying" its "what if we didnt have to bother making them, imagine our potential output!"

 

[inky]

I believe so yes, they had to pull at least 2 comics I recall due to advertisers kicking off.

Huh? which ones might I ask... The only comic I remember they ever pulled was the Strawberry Shortcake one, and that was over litigation (to prevent it more like it), never heard of trouble with advertisers. Maybe they don't want to make comic series for Assassin's Creed, Fallout and stuff like that, but they always came off as actually wanting to do those, instead of being forced to.

 

[SteveWD40]

The BBC is an institution with a history of making the greatest products in its various media.

Penny Arcade make shit and fart jokes and some half hearted "gamerz commentaries"

Depends on your point of view, I found Paint the Line to be better than the BBC's output last year and I pay the license fee.

 

[Row]

oh, you bolded adjectives. I am so convinced now.


no, that was terrible, you clearly have nothing interesting to say about this. sorry

the reasoning is there, unlike you and your defense of this sad endeavor, you're just being obtuse

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Using kickstarter for no reason other than to pay salaries is sleazy, and incredibly lazy because they clearly don't like to actually work like everybody else who needs to find legitimate ways of keeping their sites profitable or atleast afloat. The fact they're using kickstarter in such a way is sad and pathetic given their reasoning.

Better?

Yeah, but completely wrong. They work, and ad revenue pays them. The same way you work, and your company's sales (or whatever the equivalent is) pays you. Ads = internet site's sales more or less.

Ads are an eyesore to users, so in order to give their user base an option to have a better looking site they are allowing them to pledge money for no ads. So the users pay for no ads, as opposed to "paying" by seeing ads every time they load up the site. Thus there is still revenue coming into the site to keep it running, without users having to see ads everywhere.

It's not forced upon anyone, only an option to see if anyone would rather pay to not have ads.

 

[SteveWD40]

Huh? which ones might I ask... The only comic I remember they ever pulled was the Strawberry Shortcake one, and that was over litigation (to prevent it more like it).

Ah I am thinking of that and another related, I thought they had advertisers pulling on top of the litigation, my bad.

 

[Curufinwe]

Has that ever been a problem for them? I'd like to see some evidence of an idea/comic they had that they didn't run because it pissed off their advertising partners.

There was the time they did a comic for Ubisoft and ran ads for Assassin's Creed, and then made bullshit claims about how any reviewer who gave the game a 7 only did so because they were too busy to play the game properly.

 

[Row]

Yeah, but completely wrong. They work, and ad revenue pays them. The same way you work, and your company's sales (or whatever the equivalent is) pays you. Ads = internet site's sales more or less.

Ads are an eyesore to users, so in order to give their user base an option to have a better looking site they are allowing them to pledge money for no ads. So the users pay for no ads, as opposed to "paying" by seeing ads every time they load up the site.

It's not forced upon anyone, only an option to see if anyone would rather pay to not have ads.

What they have now is them working for their money, I'm not discounting that at all. Attracting advertisers, selling merchandising, etc. shows real work and effort. Asking for handouts because they don't want to put in the effort to find advertisers, or feel they don't make enough off them, doesn't. In my eyes it shows a real lack of character.

 

[ultron87]

all here really, the point of this whole shindig is clear:

"We can't do these things as well as source ad revenue." Its very wink wink nudge nudge I guess, but certainly the core push isnt "oh arent banner ads annoying" its "what if we didnt have to bother making them, imagine our potential output!"

I had not seen that tweet. That is the closest to what you were suggesting.

I guess I don't really have a problem with the whole idea even if they pitched it that way directly. The various Penny Arcade products are their output and they are now just giving their fans the option of buying it directly instead of buying it via proxy with their views of a page generating ad revenue. I probably won't contribute because their ads don't bother me.

*realizes that having a Penny Arcade avatar makes me seem biased*

 

[Takamura-San]

Yeah, but completely wrong. They work, and ad revenue pays them. The same way you work, and your company's sales (or whatever the equivalent is) pays you. Ads = internet site's sales more or less.

Ads are an eyesore to users, so in order to give their user base an option to have a better looking site they are allowing them to pledge money for no ads. So the users pay for no ads, as opposed to "paying" by seeing ads every time they load up the site.

It's not forced upon anyone, only an option to see if anyone would rather pay to not have ads.

I cannot get past this... I have yet to see a website that has many ads (excluding explicit ones that may prevent from me from going to some sites at work) that would make me say I won't go there again.

Even to the point that I would pay to take them out.

maybe that's just me.

 

[Acosta]

Question: in what way ads are a more "legit" way to pay for you company that letting your users do it.

 

[Seraphinianus]

the reasoning is there, unlike you and your defense of this sad endeavor, you're just being obtuse

Ok, it's not "sleazy" or "lazy" at all...those words imply they want to scam people or do less work. There's no scam, as the whole thing is pretty well explained--either fans pay and it goes ad-free or they don't pay and the ads are there, nothing else changes. It's not lazy because Gabe and Tycho do not personally do the ads, they have an ad person. The "work" they do to support the site is in the form of content they produce like the comic, web show, merchandise, etc.

if anything, it's just a small gamble or experiment. You guys seem to think kickstarter magically steals money from people or something, when it's all voluntary. And I don't think random internet forum dudes should go around telling people with actual jobs what they can and can't do with their money.

are we done yet

 

[scy]

Zuh? They already have a bunch of money, they don't need any of this. It has to be a statement on Kickstarter.

Honestly, it's their comic strip come to life

I guess technically the kickstarter on the strip isn't dishonest or misleading either.

$1 for it in the actual Kickstarter vs $1000 for the strip! What a bargain!

 

[erragal]

Using kickstarter for no reason other than to pay salaries is sleazy, and incredibly lazy because they clearly don't like to actually work like everybody else who needs to find legitimate ways of keeping their sites profitable or atleast afloat. The fact they're using kickstarter in such a way is sad and pathetic given their reasoning.

Better?

Most kickstarter monies go to pay the salaries of the people creating the content; nothing unusual in that regard. How is direct fan funding somehow illegitimate in your world? And how will they no longer be working? Is the site going to stop producing content because they were funded? If somehow that happened then you might have a point

Your argument sounds more like you have an extraordinarily narrow definition of what Kickstarter is allowed to be used for and anything that stretches that definition causes you an excessive amount of anguish. If anything this is far more reliable than any other Kickstarter in terms of having clearly defined results with no potential to not deliver.

I have no interest in paying myself but individuals like you need to stop trying to pigeonhole crowdsourcing into only things you want it to be. Expand your mind a bit.

 

[jett]

all here really, the point of this whole shindig is clear:





"We can't do these things as well as source ad revenue." Its very wink wink nudge nudge I guess, but certainly the core push isnt "oh arent banner ads annoying" its "what if we didnt have to bother making them, imagine our potential output!"

*goes two penny-arcade.com*

*sees ads about their own products*

uhhhhhhhhhhh