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[Alucard]

There's probably more than one or two good matches on most of the shows, the ones I mentioned are just the matches that stick out in my mind, as it's been a couple of years since I watched the early shows. 11 itself is probably a good bet, as the Gargano/Taylor/Del Sol 3-way is pretty good, or 9, as in addition to Finlay/Callihan, both Gargano/Taylor and Nese/Silver are good matches.

Good stuff.

Do you keep up with Dragon Gate in Japan? I see that there are a bunch of "Dragon Gate Infinity" shows up on Daily Motion. Is that the weekly show? Are there Japanese PPVs for the company too? I only know about the DGUSA DVDs and the one "Best of Dragon Gate" DVD that got me interested in the company in the first place.

 

[British Monsoon]

Do you keep up with Dragon Gate in Japan? I see that there are a bunch of "Dragon Gate Infinity" shows up on Daily Motion. Is that the weekly show? Are there Japanese PPVs for the company too? I only know about the DGUSA DVDs and the one "Best of Dragon Gate" DVD that got me interested in the company in the first place.

Yeah, the Infinity shows are their semi-regular TV digest - they'll usually show big house shows or PPVs on 3 hour long Infinity episodes, but some matches are cut or joined in progress and Infinity is usually about 2 months behind. The PPVs rarely seem to make it out of Japan in complete form until well after the event, which is a shame.

I think Japanese Dragon Gate is generally a better product than DGUSA, with a lot more quality throughout the roster, but I personally find it a bit difficult to follow as the faction storylines are rather convoluted.

This is a great site for following Dragon Gate, as they upload all the Infinity episodes and PPVs when they become available;

http://www.openthedragongate.com/

 

[Entropia]

Yay Survivor Series tonight










:|

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Yay Survivor Series tonight










:|

Don't be like that, you know you'll be here with the rest of us.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I remember when WWE put effort into Survivor Series, I think 2003 was the last one with a rather stacked card even if the match quality was a bit all over the place, that's almost a decade ago, we should just watch SS 2002 instead.

 

[Alucard]

Yeah, the Infinity shows are their semi-regular TV digest - they'll usually show big house shows or PPVs on 3 hour long Infinity episodes, but some matches are cut or joined in progress and Infinity is usually about 2 months behind. The PPVs rarely seem to make it out of Japan in complete form until well after the event, which is a shame.

I think Japanese Dragon Gate is generally a better product than DGUSA, with a lot more quality throughout the roster, but I personally find it a bit difficult to follow as the faction storylines are rather convoluted.

This is a great site for following Dragon Gate, as they upload all the Infinity episodes and PPVs when they become available;

http://www.openthedragongate.com/

Wow. That is absolutely awesome! Bookmarked! Is there a similar site for New Japan? I think you may have posted something about it in the past.

Also, was the last Dragon Gate PPV really in 2011?..."Final Gate"? Or are they, like you mentioned, sometimes wrapped up into the Infinity show?

 

[thepotatoman]

Yay Survivor Series tonight










:|

Lets hype ourselves by listing all the plot developments since Hell in a Cell.

- Miz turned face
- Cena is no longer injured

Uh...

Seriously is that it?

 

[Entropia]

Lets hype ourselves by listing all the plot developments since Hell in a Cell.

- Miz turned face
- Cena is no longer injured

Uh...

Seriously is that it?

Something something Ryback

 

[atomsk]

so what are the odds on new Cena merch tonight

and to answer my own question

https://twitter.com/JohnCena/status/270185322174894080

yep, new merch tonight. so now what color will they possibly do

 

[Alucard]

Has this been the shittiest buildup to a major PPV that you can ever remember?

 

[jobber]

and to answer my own question

https://twitter.com/JohnCena/status/270185322174894080

yep, new merch tonight. so now what color will they possibly do

white

 

[zychi]

probably yellow. gotta complete the rainbow.

first ppv since mitb '11 i'm skipping. dont care about any matches besides the tag team chanpions, and i dont expect them to lose. i dont think they let punk keep the title now that hes close to top 5 all time. cena needs something to do til wrestlemania, may as well give him the title, let the rock win the rr. lame wm main event year 2

 

[British Monsoon]

Wow. That is absolutely awesome! Bookmarked! Is there a similar site for New Japan? I think you may have posted something about it in the past.

Also, was the last Dragon Gate PPV really in 2011?..."Final Gate"? Or are they, like you mentioned, sometimes wrapped up into the Infinity show?

They've had four PPVs so far this year, but not all of them have surfaced - here's the 7/22 PPV with CIMA vs Tozawa;

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x28a7x_Jahmale_Hepburn_dragon-gate-7-22-12/1#video=xtfy6u

And, unfortunately, I don't think there's a similar site for New Japan, so you just have to keep an eye out on Dailymotion/Youtube - speaking of which, last Sunday's New Japan show is now online;

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x2bxwj_Jahmale_Hepburn_njpw-power-struggle-2012-11-11-12/1

 

[CrunchinJelly]

and to answer my own question

https://twitter.com/JohnCena/status/270185322174894080

yep, new merch tonight. so now what color will they possibly do

Hmmm, every colour I can think of he's already done it. Amazing.

Maybe just go back to black?

 

[Nocturnowl]

Rainbow Cena, or maybe they'll save that one for Wrestlemania.

 

[jobber]

probably yellow. gotta complete the rainbow.

first ppv since mitb '11 i'm skipping. dont care about any matches besides the tag team chanpions, and i dont expect them to lose. i dont think they let punk keep the title now that hes close to top 5 all time. cena needs something to do til wrestlemania, may as well give him the title, let the rock win the rr. lame wm main event year 2

Can't step into Punk's merch sales with the yellow.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Rainbow Cena, or maybe they'll save that one for Wrestlemania.

Tie-dye Cena!

 

[British Monsoon]

I think that instead of just changing his shirt colour, Cena should change cause with each merchandise change - so, he was 'Breast Cancer Awareness Cena' last month, maybe he can be 'Spay & Neuter Your Pets Cena' this month? 'Support the Troops Cena', 'Check your plums for Testicular Cancer Cena', 'Colonoscopy for the Over 50's Cena', 'Register to Vote Cena', 'Road Safety Awareness Cena', 'Pick up Your Trash Cena', 'Look Both Ways Before Crossing Cena' - the merchandising possibilities are endless.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Bring back 8-bit Cena. I want that fucking shirt!

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I'd like to hear Devolution's thoughts on how females are presented in wrestling, WWE especially - and then other areas like TNA and Shine.

 

[slightconfuse]

What if the john AJ is banging Is john moxley

 

[Alucard]

They've had four PPVs so far this year, but not all of them have surfaced - here's the 7/22 PPV with CIMA vs Tozawa;

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x28a7x_Jahmale_Hepburn_dragon-gate-7-22-12/1#video=xtfy6u

And, unfortunately, I don't think there's a similar site for New Japan, so you just have to keep an eye out on Dailymotion/Youtube - speaking of which, last Sunday's New Japan show is now online;

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x2bxwj_Jahmale_Hepburn_njpw-power-struggle-2012-11-11-12/1

Fun fact: I was at Dragon Gate's first Canadian PPV, Uprising 2010. It was Akira Tozawa's PPV debut, and he was put in the first match against Mochizuki. The crowd was red hot and the match was very good.

So awesome. Also got pics with BxB Hulk, CIMA, and Naruki Doi.

 

[Alucard]

Also saw Jiggy at Uprising in 2010. He was hella entertaining! Teamed with Quakenbush against PAC (also his PPV debut) and Naruki Doi.

 

[atomsk]

'Pick up Your Trash Cena'

gimmick infringement

 

[vatstep]

I remember when WWE put effort into Survivor Series, I think 2003 was the last one with a rather stacked card even if the match quality was a bit all over the place, that's almost a decade ago, we should just watch SS 2002 instead.

Survivor Series was always my least-favorite of the "marquee" PPVs of the old days (never really cared for the SS matches), but it still sucks to see them half-ass it so much. At least the Royal Rumble is coming up — it's slightly harder for them to fuck that up.

 

[ecurbj]

So is it worth the investment to watch money-wise and time-wise? I was thinking about ordering it on Comcast.

 

[Entropia]

So everyone should post their favorite traditional Survivor Series matches!

Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001

 

[British Monsoon]

I'd like to hear Devolution's thoughts on how females are presented in wrestling, WWE especially - and then other areas like TNA and Shine.

I'm going to take a guess and say; badly. Even in the PG world of modern WWE, the women are lauded for their athletic prowess, but given the barest of chances to show it. They seem entirely interchangeable from one another, only being placed in the limelight when paired with a male wrestler as a valet or girlfriend, until, invariably, storyline dictates that they expose their low morals by cheating on said wrestler. There's an air of rigmarole to the Divas matches, as if they're there to check a box, and as if WWE only bothers with them because otherwise the Divas would be barely a step above the Nitro Girls.

In TNA the women are presented far more lasciviously, scantily clad and performing risqué poses as they enter the ring. But once there, they at least wrestle. TNA doesn't build up their skills only to then let them go to waste, but rather portrays them as good wrestlers in their own right (with the added of advantage of looking sexy in the process), even if the quality and maturity of the storylines given to them often leave a lot to be desired.

Women's wrestling on the indies in places like SHIMMER, SHINE, WSU, ACW, NCW, etc is mostly presented in a much more athletic manner, but that doesn't mean they are unaware of the more seedy side of how women's wrestling is perceived and the money-making opportunities therein. For instance, some wrestlers take to auctioning their ring-worn gear to the creepy guys who come to these shows for more than just the wrestling, while others advertise their availability for fetish video work and custom video requests from fans.

I think women's wrestling has a long way to go in the US - there are many who say that people just aren't interested in women's wrestling, but the problem remains with the fact that not enough good women's wrestler are being given the opportunities to wrestle. There's no doubt in my mind that women's wrestling can be as exciting and entertaining as men's wrestling, and for entirely the same reasons, but until it's presented as being on par with men's wrestling, until WWE begin giving opportunities first to the women who CAN wrestle and not just look pretty, it will always be badly perceived imo.

Fun fact: I was at Dragon Gate's first Canadian PPV, Uprising 2010. It was Akira Tozawa's PPV debut, and he was put in the first match against Mochizuki. The crowd was red hot and the match was very good.

I remember that show - it's crazy how much Tozawa improved in that year. Also, jealous you got to meet some of the DG guys! Would love the chance to meet guys like Mochizuki & Shingo.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Related

 

[BlazinAm]

So everyone should post their favorite traditional Survivor Series matches!

Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001

The thing about that match is that the end of the invasion program should have started up the push for Booker T and RVD, the two most high profile people who had just joined the company and we never got that Stone Cold/Booker T match and RVD went for the European title.

 

[DKehoe]

TNA's women used to be the biggest ratings draws in the company when the division was more serious (e.g Kong vs Gail Kim). I think there is an interest in having proper women's wrestling but neither WWE or TNA are interested in doing that anymore.

I wonder if Ronda Rousey coming to UFC and (hopefully) becoming an even bigger star might open some eyes in either company.

 

[Heretic]

So everyone should post their favorite traditional Survivor Series matches!

Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001

Shane's elbow is freaking amazing

 

[SoulPlaya]

I see this guy's stuff on Tumblr and have always been confused -- is it great art when the guy is just flatout outright ripping off Frank Quitely?

I think that's the point, it's a play off of this picture.

 

[BlazinAm]

TNA's women used to be the biggest ratings draws in the company when the division was more serious (e.g Kong vs Gail Kim). I think there is an interest in having proper women's wrestling but neither WWE or TNA are interested in doing that anymore.

I wonder if Ronda Rousey coming to UFC and (hopefully) becoming an even bigger star might open some eyes in either company.

Doubtful whatever plans TNA and WWE has for women aren't that serious enough for them to even look at what UFC is doing.

 

[Ultratech]

Hmmm, every colour I can think of he's already done it. Amazing.

Maybe just go back to black?

Blue or Yellow maybe? Perhaps even White?

TNA's women used to be the biggest ratings draws in the company when the division was more serious (e.g Kong vs Gail Kim). I think there is an interest in having proper women's wrestling but neither WWE or TNA are interested in doing that anymore.

The thing with Divas matches is that there's so little to them these days. When they go out there and have sub 2 minute matches, it's not terribly exciting, nor does it show off what they're capable of. (Also doesn't help when most people treat their matches as a piss break time...)

I don't know what TNA's problem was since like you said, they had a pretty damn good division at one time before it just fell out of favor. (It's still better than WWE at least.)

It'd be nice if both companies got a bit more serious about their Women's divisions though.

 

[Alucard]

Random comment: People who do star ratings for matches need to learn how to do math. I love it when they say something is "really good" and only give it 3.25 stars. That's like a 65/100. It's like they think 4/5 is equal to a 90/100 instead of an 80. "But 3/5 is different than 6/10!"...except it's not...at all.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Survivor Series was always my least-favorite of the "marquee" PPVs of the old days (never really cared for the SS matches), but it still sucks to see them half-ass it so much. At least the Royal Rumble is coming up — it's slightly harder for them to fuck that up.

They did their best this year to screw it up with the jobber rumble, how we went from the 40 man one last year to not even having enough wrestlers to make 30 without needing announcers, old timers and double duty performers i'll never know.

So everyone should post their favorite traditional Survivor Series matches!

Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001

I've always rather enjoyed Team Austin vs Team Bischoff from 2003, HBK puts in one hell of a performance towards the end.

 

[SoulPlaya]

They did their best this year to screw it up with the jobber rumble, how we went from the 40 man one last year to not even having enough wrestlers to make 30 without needing announcers, old timers and double duty performers i'll never know.


I've always rather enjoyed Team Austin vs Team Bischoff from 2003, HBK puts in one hell of a performance towards the end.

He was bleeding like a gutted pig.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Random comment: People who do star ratings for matches need to learn how to do math. I love it when they say something is "really good" and only give it 3.25 stars. That's like a 65/100. It's like they think 4/5 is equal to a 90/100 instead of an 80. "But 3/5 is different than 6/10!"...except it's not...at all.

Leave some truth for the rest of us to tell.

 

[Alucard]

Leave some truth for the rest of us to tell.

It just kills me when somebody gives a match 1.25/5 even if there were some good spots and there was solid athleticism involved. I mean, really? You thought it wasn't even worth 3/10? It's just silly with how hyper-critical people are sometimes.

 

[British Monsoon]

Random comment: People who do star ratings for matches need to learn how to do math. I love it when they say something is "really good" and only give it 3.25 stars. That's like a 65/100. It's like they think 4/5 is equal to a 90/100 instead of an 80. "But 3/5 is different than 6/10!"...except it's not...at all.

Personally, the way I do it is...

***** - classic, match of the year contender
**** - excellent, highly enjoyable match-up
*** - great match
** - good match, but flawed
* - largely forgettable, with a few redeeming moments

And anything less isn't worth watching.

I try to avoid star ratings though, as wrestling really is very subjective and what I like may not necessarily be what others find appealing when it comes to wrestling.

 

[Alucard]

Personally, the way I do it is...

***** - classic, match of the year contender
**** - excellent, highly enjoyable match-up
*** - great match
** - good match, but flawed
* - largely forgettable, with a few redeeming moments

And anything less isn't worth watching.

I try to avoid star ratings though, as wrestling really is very subjective and what I like may not necessarily be what others find appealing when it comes to wrestling.

I agree with your closing sentiment about not everybody enjoying the same thing, but I do think there are some elements that make matches legendary. Here's how I would do it...

5 stars - Legendary. A classic people will talk about for ages. It involves solid physical and psychological storytelling that has the crowd invested all the way through.
4.5 stars - Superb. Practically flawless.
4 - Excellent/Great. Maybe it just has good psychology or just good mat wrestling, but it's highly entertaining and engaging.
3.5 - Very good. The competitors came to play and put on a solid contest that was worth the price of admission for the fans. A match worth going out of your way to see. (Tozawa vs. Mochizuki, or Bryan vs. Sheamus on Raw)
3 - Good. The definition of "solid." Worth seeing and is a good display of what wrestling is. Not bad but not great. In the middle.
2.5 - Okay. Not memorable, but not forgettable. Had some very good moments but was either too short or didn't have the correct pacing or psychology...or a really good match with a weak finish.
2 - Poor. The guys involved didn't really prepare ahead of time, and while there may have been a neat thing or two, it felt a little lazy or poorly-paced.
1.5 - Bad. The guys showed up just to collect a paycheck and didn't seem all that invested in what they were doing.
1 - Terrible. Botches galore and almost zero preparation. No psychology whatsoever and totally lazy ring work.

Of course, then we run into the question of how you rate stuff like comedy matches.

 

[Enfinit]

So how many of ya'll nerds is gonna be in here tonight?

Hooray Survivor Series!!!!!!11!!!!!fuck!!!!!1!!

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Survivor Series is TONIGHT? I swear if I didn't come to this thread I would miss damn near every PPV.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I hope Kaitlyn beats eve tonight. It's a lingerie match right?

 

[slightconfuse]

Choose your poison

 

[miserable]

So Punk's reign is gonna be over in a couple of hours?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

So Punk's reign is gonna be over in a couple of hours?

never. Ryback and Cena are going to take each other out. Punk will snake a win and then tomorrow will hold his 1 year as champion anniversary party.

 

[Kyoufu]

never. Ryback and Cena are going to take each other out. Punk will snake a win and then tomorrow will hold his 1 year as champion anniversary party.

but...

dat swerve!

Vince needs his swerves.

 

[Alucard]

I really want to believe that Vince wouldn't miss the chance to have a kickass 1 year anniversary party for Punk on Raw tomorrow night.