No one shoots firearms at their maximum RoF outside of final supressive fire situations. So what you're really assuming is that people could do ... what ... in that 2-4 second gap between magazine changes (assuming they cannot transition to another weapon instead)? The Coalition plan of tackling people in that period is about as useful as doing so during a stoppage (read: extraordinarly dangerous to suicidal). The reduction in actual volume of fire by forcing 10-round magazines is trivial. You might as well try and legislate a "pause timer" in semi-automatic weapons if that's your goal.
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Gunsmiths 3D-Print 30 Round MAGAZINES To Thwart Proposed Gun Laws
- Thread starter CrankyJay
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Fair enough. The overall time was so short to me, I didn't break it down to %s.
Because it was recommended by the Sheriff, detectives, and instructor I received training from.
Situations where a CCW holder is involved in a lawfully permitted shooting rarely make the news for some reason, but it happens all the time. Lots of the examples we had to watch and read about in my training course showed the use of well over 10 rounds to end the threat(s).
I don't see why the question has to go past the recreational standpoint.
Doesn't seem to be too much data in that regard. There are a lot of variables that can come into play. Multiple Home Invaders changes things a ton especially if after the first shots fired they aren't retreating.
Police statistically fire on average 3 rounds in a fight at least in studies going back 4-5 years.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Really? You don't see why some of us find the sheer stubbornness of some people to add some minor additional frustration to something they do recreationally if it might save lives to be...annoying?
Yes, a lot of people who don't shoot, or don't shoot often, don't realize how much of a PITA it is to reload magazines. Lots of magazines are very stiff, and after a day at the range with low capacity magazines, odds are you have blisters from reloading them.
If it's all about the gun range, I have no problems with 100 round magazines so long as they're securely stored at the firing range. Would anyone object to that?
I dislike this line of reasoning because it implies we should never do anything because there won't be 100% compliance.
Perfect is the enemy of good it seems.
Technosteve
Banned
it's like these white guys are waiting for a civil war to happen
Oh poor you you poor little baby having to spend 2 to 3 seconds reloading your deadly weapon every couple of seconds instead of every few seconds
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh well, if trying to control how much carnage one individual is capable of inflicting in a very short span means that you might have blisters.
Lots of people don't shoot at the range. I do most my shoot on federal/BLM land. Could we store them there too?
I'm simply suggesting we should take into consideration the ease to which people can avoid compliance when drafting legislation. This is actually a factor that is recommended to be considered during statutory drafting, so I don't think my point here is absurd.
Between "criminals don't follow the law so why change the laws" and "most mass shootings used legal guns anyway so why the change the laws" some people won't ever be able to see any need to change anything at all.
Okay, so they aren't allowed to own 10 round clips. Is that a suitable compromise or do we have to shut down this conversation because you just found a reason we can't reach 100% compliance?
Mammoth Jones
Member
I'd have to look at the legislation in more details regarding locking people in mental institutions but I don't believe we are going to start seeing random people getting committed be side of this. I just hope it simply streamlines the process for getting someone that is a serious danger to themselves and others the care they need immediately rather than going through a protracted court process.
As far as the 3D printing it technically doesn't violate the law but it violates the spirit of the law. I don't approve about using 3D printing to manufacture firearms or any operational component. They'll simply revise the law.
All in all the proposals getting shoved through in NY sucks. 7 round magazine limit? Yea, because my 10 round magazine was just terrible. Same for my 8 round shotgun? Ugh. Does nothing that actually helps. Well, except for the parts that increase criminal penalties for crimes that already existed. Not just changing the rules.
As far as the 3D printing it technically doesn't violate the law but it violates the spirit of the law. I don't approve about using 3D printing to manufacture firearms or any operational component. They'll simply revise the law.
All in all the proposals getting shoved through in NY sucks. 7 round magazine limit? Yea, because my 10 round magazine was just terrible. Same for my 8 round shotgun? Ugh. Does nothing that actually helps. Well, except for the parts that increase criminal penalties for crimes that already existed. Not just changing the rules.
Dude Abides
Banned
Can you 3-D print a good guy, though?
As most of the anti-gun people on NeoGAF have never fired a weapon and seemingly have never even played FPS games, you will excuse us if we are more than a little incredulous that pro-ban people have any idea what "minor additional frustration" really means when it comes to using a firearm.
No reason to get disrespectful and start name calling. I've maintained a respectful tone in all my posts.
You have the right to your opinion, and I respect it. I'm not going to try to change your mind. I was simply just trying to respond to the "Why" questions that kept popping up.
Maybe if the criminals can just print the things they were going to steal anyway then we won't need to shoot them with our printed guns!
BattleMonkey
Member
Nature finds a way
Can you explain?
Not possible. Even if you couldn't make your own 3D printer, the nature of 3D printing files makes this not a thing that can be done.
Outlaw everything except bolt action rifles and lever/pump action shotguns. Gun owners get to keep guns, anti-gun people get magazines banned. Problem solved.
...
I'm being hyperbolic of course, but personally I really don't see why you would need anything more powerful for personal use.
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I'm being hyperbolic of course, but personally I really don't see why you would need anything more powerful for personal use.
That would suit my personal needs just fine, but I think hairs would be splint on what constitutes a gun range, or a range owner etc. etc.
I think more aggressive regulation of these things are going to cost us more time and energy than it's worth. The genie is out of the bottle on this one. I feel like aggressive regulation would waste time and resources for the law abiding gun owners and the government. If it were me I'd close the gun show loop hole and call it a day.
How do I need to? Just look at the debate, the 'from my cold dead hands' attitude, the willful misinterpretation of an ancient text. Its religous in nature.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Word. And I mean, I wouldn't mind the additional frustration of a background check for ammo. Or a background check for person to person sales. Or the holes plugged in the NICE system. Or for the police to actually arrest and prosecute felons that lie on their background check documentation in an attempt to purchase a gun they know they're not allowed to buy/own....but shit like redefining semi-auto rifles yet again when it didnt do jack shit the first time and lower the amount of rounds in a magazine to 7 is just dumb. It shows me some politicians aren't interested in a comprehensive approach based off of what will actually make a difference to help keep guns out of the hands of the people that shouldn't have them and in the hands of those that have the legal right to purchase them.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Some people need a rifle that's beyond 19th Century technology.
Problem with that is all those crimes are not like the others. Sucide is self inflicted and happens regardless of method. Over 55% of all gun fatalities in 2005 were self inflicted suicides.
I guess Japan needs to ban trains since every few hours it seems people are throwing themselves in front of trains.
Technosteve
Banned
why can't people just go the dmv to get a gun license and registration
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Undetermined?
In what situation/for what task do they really need that?
Right, but those other countries include suicide too.
Maybe they accidentally choked on a bullet?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I've said this in a couple other places, but the current series of cries for increased regulation really are aimed at decreasing the number of mass shootings. One-on-one you can kill someone with a rifle, with a handgun, with a knife, with a bat, whatever. But only with a gun can you theoretically kill ten people in a little over ten seconds from a distance without much training.
The problem remains that Suicide makes up the majority of our gun incidents.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I'll never understand why anyone would want more than a handgun or shotgun for self-defense. My uncle was a sniper in WW2 (yeah he was old) he use to always say "if you can't kill someone in one shot you have no reason to own a gun." This is how I was raised too. So 30 round mags are funny to me. Auto's are fun as shit though. I understand why people like them. Being a SAW gunner in the Army was always fun because if you're good enough you could pop one round off and hit your target. I use to do that all the time and piss off my NCO's.
Or something that puts us near equal footing with the criminals out on the streets. As romantic as the imagery of me defending myself against criminals armed with semi and fully automatic weapons with my lever action rifle may be, I think these sorts picturesque scenes are best left for the Clint Eastwood movies.
Require that criminals only use pre-19th century firearms (and transport us to a world where this requirement would be followed), and I may be more willing to jump into this modern Spaghetti Western.
And? That has what to do with the need for high power rifles?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
...where do you live that your average street mugger or home invader is walking around with fully automatic weapons?
What I find funny is that the AR-15 is 1960's technology.
People tend to think they are some new advanced weapon (probably due to the current trend of attaching way to much "tactical" junk to their rifles) but they are old as shit.
Yes. Most criminals are packing uzis and ak 47s. I think your the one in 'lala' land, not the people you are talking about.
Well you don't need a high-capacity clip for that.
When was the last time anyone here had a shootout on the streets with criminals? Is this real life or a Charles Bronson movie? And don't most criminals use shitty saturday night specials?
What does adding suicides to violent crimes committed against others statistics do besides inflate a number to make it seem worse?
The whole thing is a farce because Assault weapons and the like are used in like 2 % of all shootings yet we spend 99.9% of our time focused on them
There was a home invasion in Stockton recently that made the news. 4 criminals pulled up to the individual's house, each armed with a rifle (some were full auto, some where semi).
The homeowner was lucky enough to see them approaching his house via his security cameras, and managed to properly defend himself using his AR15 before they managed to get to his door.
A handgun's inaccuracy at those distances would have posed a much greater risk to bystanders, and a shotgun would have been just as difficult to aim (00 buckshot would have an undesirable spread pattern, and a slug at that distance would be very difficult to aim even with ghost rings).
This whole ordeal was actually caught on tape. I can try to find it, although it happened a year or two go.
These sort of situations aren't that rare. We were given lots of local data during my CCW course.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Dudes on the streets have 45's and 9's. They are not carrying around fucking AK's.
... even if you half it the US is near top, and thats ignoring that the other countries count suicide too...
And if that did happen in stockton, I doubt immensely it was a 'random crime' it sounds like, not only were they criminals aware of who they were after, but that the person in the house was expecting trouble...
And you learnt about these 'events' in a class designed to tell you that you fear was justified? Shocking.
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