no way in hell. maybe it looks worse in an average game, but it's clearly used in X to great effect. the backgrounds are more than likely visitable and need to look available for travel. fogging them out destroys that sensation and would harm the feeling of exploration and 'scale' that people are talking about
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What does NEOGAF think of the graphics on Wii U's second wave of games
- Thread starter CrisKre
- Start date
no way in hell. maybe it looks worse in an average game, but it's clearly used in X to great effect. the backgrounds are more than likely visitable and need to look available for travel. fogging them out destroys that sensation and would harm the feeling of exploration and 'scale' that people are talking about
XtremeXpider
Member
He is judging the teaser trailer, what else can do?
The topic: What does NEOGAF think of the graphics on Wii U's second wave of games
He is on topic.
If you want to judge the not yet released info, then create another thread about it.
phosphor112
Banned
So... you're saying the game looks better. I say no. I prove you wrong (using PS3 and 360 games as examples). You say, "It's not finished."
You are good at this.
Doctor Decimate
Member
i'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Xenosomething doesn't look good is so full of shit they've got corn dribbling out of their mouth
phosphor112
Banned
Lambda Pie
Banned
you're arguing that the implementation of a great lighting technique that every modern game should have gets in the way of exploration?
you can go anywhere in Just Cause 2.
Doctor Decimate
Member
i wouldn't go that far, but to say this looks BAD is some ridiculous overcompensation. i would say it's up there with the best on those systems, however.
phosphor112
Banned
Did you even see the video? That's 360 footage. The draw distance still has AI, foliage, particle effects, dynamic cloud shadow maps and buildings being rendered.
I don't think anyone said it looked bad. I don't think anyone ragged on it's scale, I just don't think the "barren" environment is impressive. It's not complete but hey, I'm going by what I see.
How did you prove me wrong exactly? By avoiding the questions that I asked before? By posting useless conversation logs with your bro? By parroting what I say?
Lol
Its pointless to argue against hype. Nobody is going to be convinced of anything they haven't already decided. Lessons learned, etc. Some people are convinced its the greatest thing ever, others think it looks like a wii game. Most people fall somewhere inbetween, and that aggravates the hell out of the extreme-types.
To get a better sense of scale, take these three GIFs:
What do they have in common? Well:
and to think, this is only a small portion of a game we got in a one minute trailer.
What do they have in common? Well:
That small shoreline you see to the left of the first image? That's the same shore you see the player running in the bottom image.
and to think, this is only a small portion of a game we got in a one minute trailer.
phosphor112
Banned
Lol, so RDR and JC2 are just ugly sacks of shit I'm guessing. Cool.
MrCookiepants
Member
Nintendo has the best artists in the world and they know how to get a lot out of their systems. All of the games look stunning.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Lambda Pie
Banned
also, it looks remarkably similar to FF13 Gran Pulse area, it even shares the "barren landscape with huge monsters" theme.
You are truly amazing at making up shit from out of nowhere.
the scenarios aren't comparable. one has huge gorgeous rock formations that you would want the user to see and the other has trees and hills. this stuff explains itself so hard i think i might be misunderstanding you.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
The trailer has either static DoF or fogging on far distances, with no excess shimmering or z-fighting on those left unobscured. Not to suggest that these artifacts won't be present in the final product, but it's a bit of a stretch to turn the draw distance into a negative.
Dude, you're really reaching here. You didn't "prove" anything. Why is this is so important to you? Saying RDR and JC2 look better is arguable at best, mostly because we don't have enough high quality media of X to make a proper comparison. Your opinion =/= proof.
XtremeXpider
Member
Was Grand Pulse as plain and bland as that screen suggests?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I guess you fight the monsters real time in FF 13.. you right. Everyone its a holiday close the banks and malls.
Doctor Decimate
Member
if you removed all the foliage and the difference in terrain and the view of the mountains and the shoreline then sure i guess.............
XtremeXpider said:
i should probably clarify i wasn't responding to the current ongoing discussion lol
phosphor112
Banned
It's great, but done before.
I'm not using opinion, the technical achievements of those two games completely overshadow anything and everything that is shown in the trailer.
It looks a lot like the Bionis Leg area from Xenoblade. Xenoblade did the whole huge monsters with wide open areas thing way better than 13 ever did. There were so many nooks, crannies, and secret areas to find in Xenoblade's overworld. 13's was just pretty barren to me. The coolest thing was a monster in the distance you couldn't fight, and the giant Adamantoise things.
Seriously? This looks impressive to you?
Just out of curiosity. What are some visually impressive games you've played recently?
I agree, X is pretty average looking.
Yeah ok. It's becoming more and more apparent that you're not willing to have a rational and reasonable discussion and truly believe you're being objective. We're not discussing a black and white matter here but evidently you disagree, so goodbye. Good luck with your crusade.
Lambda Pie
Banned
better?
technically, it's an ATB battle system, but i know what you mean.
the game loads whatever location you're at when you engage in battle:
now that you mention it, FF13 didn't even had any reason to load the battles, unless it's used to swap models.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Maybe hope should go jump on that rock or climb those hills.
better?
Lambda Pie
Banned
only thing that stops him are SE design decisions. the landscape is already 3D.
How many RPGs have achieved the same sense of scale though, without sacrifice? Too many RPGs this generation have become too closed off, due to technical reasons or resources. It looks like Monolith Soft won't be facing such restrictions, since the scale here is certainly reminiscent to Xenoblade's.
That small island near the mech's leg in the first image is the same island the character is shown battling in the second one. This one part of the world is ridiculously large and can be explored on a friggin mech without load screens. Very few games can get that done at this level of detail. It certainly is impressive, both on an aesthetic and technical level.
Now how much of that is actually explorable? You're comparing different types of RPGs, but X is definitely on a whole other level graphically.
better?
Doctor Decimate
Member
better. but i still wouldn't say the detail and the scale are comparable.
Lambda Pie
Banned
Doctor Decimate
Member
alright, i misunderstood your meaning.
Well XIII is almost three years old at this point. Versus XIII would be a great comparison if it ever decides to exist.
XIII-3 hasn't come out and it still looks the same as the first one...
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I believe you. I have played FF XIII for 30 hours dissapointed the shit out of me running straight for 30 hours.
Christberg
Member
I booted up my copy of RDR and yeah, it does. Except it's a much simpler implementation overall and the shadow map resolution is much lower. Plus the detail distance in the environments is much lower. And the environmental textures are generally not as clean. Don't get me wrong, I love RDR. I think it's one of the very best games released this generation. But technically? Yeah, no.
Can't speak to Just Cause, not a game I own.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
I really like reading your posts. Not because they lavish praise on the game, but because you simply point out things that I didn't notice.
I hope loading times are minimal. Xenoblade was phenomenal in that regard.
MaxwellGT2000
Member
Holy hell a damn good eye there if you did that yourself. I thought those from different areas of the game, but if it's anything like Xenoblade as pointed out it'll probably be very open, wonder if they'll take out the area loading and just have the paths stream into one another. Having a flying mech will definitely make things interesting.
Also I have no idea why people are like "looks average" then it's like RDR did it! And I'm just like, it has more foliage with mountains on top of it... and RDR isn't nearly "average" or just "good" it's visually impressive. It's like Dark Souls with more area to run around in and explore and that game wasn't "average"... why does the definition of average change when something that looks good comes along. Is it cause we want UE4 footage in real time? Sorry to break it to people but rarely did a game look as good as the tech demo did with UE3, even so most details are missed anyway, why can't we just enjoy the art and design of areas, which I feel the new Monolith game does just as well as Xenoblade.
Cheers
Light scattering in most games is ratcheted up quite a bit to artificially increase the sense of scale. A place you can jog to in 3-5 minutes should not look like a washed out haze except under specific circumstances.
As someone who goes to the beach practically every day I am an expert on this subject.
The X shots have scattering, it's just pushed further back in a way that is more "realistic."
As someone who goes to the beach practically every day I am an expert on this subject.
The X shots have scattering, it's just pushed further back in a way that is more "realistic."
Not really. That "scattering" is insanely heavy, and looks less like actual atmospheric scattering than a cheap fog+blur effect, and clearly being used to mask the low-quality background textures. I'm not saying the game looks terrible or that the aesthetic layout there is bad, but the "emulation of light scattering" is neither inspiring in and of itself nor particularly "accurate" to how the human eye perceives the world.
The eye is capable of being comfortable with clean backgrounds; a healthy eye can focus to infinity, which is why if we look up through the atmosphere on a clear night in a remote area, the sky is sharp. Even if we look straight forward, extremely non-hazy days can allow things at quite great distances to be perceived very sharply. There's nothing unsettling to the eye about perceiving things at great distances to be very sharp; it just looks like clean air. Even if you make that air look unnaturally clean, it won't look "bad" as long as you can push distant detail well enough, and isn't a problem at all unless you're going for strict hyperrealism in an Earth-like environment.
Well, IMO, the Monolith Soft game looks really great, both art and technical aspects. Dat draw distance, dat scale
Framerate needs improvement, tough.
About the Xeno game, i would say that it looks really promising and great, but :
_Compressed vid can hide iq and problems
and especially,
_Let's face it, Xenoblade on Wii HAS an amazing drawing distance, vegetations, huge open environment.. For the Wii, it's just crazy. I would think this one look to be the same thing on 360 level. Those guys are just really good at it.
_Compressed vid can hide iq and problems
and especially,
_Let's face it, Xenoblade on Wii HAS an amazing drawing distance, vegetations, huge open environment.. For the Wii, it's just crazy. I would think this one look to be the same thing on 360 level. Those guys are just really good at it.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Obviously the one with toad idiot.
My First post on Neogaf, thank you everyone, it was really nice to read you all that time !
Now, back on topic :
I own a wiiU since Launch and i'm really happy with it ( miiverse, gamepad play etc...) but i was waiting something more from Nintendo, a promise for the future ! I got it and loved it !
Pikmin is getting better and better, ok the floor is bad but light, textures, shadows, artstyle ! Love it ! So much better that we saw at e3 last year !
Yoshi and ZeldaWW are not graphically impressive, but art style doesnt need Gflops ! They look good.
X is quite impressive... Yes it´s not perfect but how can you compare retail games with first footage ever ???
What would be fair is comparing X with games like "lost odyssey" : new hardware + learning to work on HD graphics ...
Now, back on topic :
I own a wiiU since Launch and i'm really happy with it ( miiverse, gamepad play etc...) but i was waiting something more from Nintendo, a promise for the future ! I got it and loved it !
Pikmin is getting better and better, ok the floor is bad but light, textures, shadows, artstyle ! Love it ! So much better that we saw at e3 last year !
Yoshi and ZeldaWW are not graphically impressive, but art style doesnt need Gflops ! They look good.
X is quite impressive... Yes it´s not perfect but how can you compare retail games with first footage ever ???
What would be fair is comparing X with games like "lost odyssey" : new hardware + learning to work on HD graphics ...