what is this and why does it look so bad?
No one said is bad but where are finished the texture details, for example?
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What does NEOGAF think of the graphics on Wii U's second wave of games
- Thread starter CrisKre
- Start date
No one said is bad but where are finished the texture details, for example?
You have 10 secs of small compressed footage of a game in development. If you want to start talking about aliasing, lighting, and texture resolutions then you are going to just be wasting time.
I was skeptical about Pikmin 3's graphics but when I saw that gameplay trailer they put out a few months ago I was sold. The world looked so lively and well thought out, I honestly couldn't care if the ground texture looked flat, because everything else looked gorgeously done.
EmCeeGramr
Member
it's literally a gamecube game they they stuck a new lighting system on
I think it looks good. I hope some third party will make enough money and time
to make beautiful games. When they release the Wii i've said to myself i'll be easy to make games that look like Resident Evil 4 and not many games are that good looking.
I hope Retro Studio are working on a new Prime, this will look so good.
to make beautiful games. When they release the Wii i've said to myself i'll be easy to make games that look like Resident Evil 4 and not many games are that good looking.
I hope Retro Studio are working on a new Prime, this will look so good.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
My major problem with Pikmin 3 is the geometry, the environment looks very low poly
Jaded Alyx
Member
A touched up GameCube game.
phosphor112
Banned
Oh bloody hell, my sides hurt from laughing.
Come on Dave! I've been a lurker for years and I've always had, a lot of disagreements with a lot of what you've said, to say the least. And that's fine, right? But surely we can both agree that this is a pretty looking game right? Whether its 'next-gen' or not is another argument, but surely you can agree that its a good looking game with glimpses of great texture work and big draw distance's that's nothing to scoff at?
And even in the light of something along the lines of Agni's Prophecy, its still a game that you could play without feeling that its ugly and primitive? And for many of us Nintendo fans, its a breath of fresh air, and even for none Nintendo fans and JRPG fans, its something that's attractive and graphically promising?
phosphor112
Banned
100% agree, no need to waste resources. W101 looks great artistically, even better in 60fps. Platinum games tends to release quality titles with strong art direction.
Dude, it's definitely a really nice looking game. I said in my first post that it might well be a whisker above PS3/360 capabilities (I'm not really sure). My 'Toblerone Beach' comment was just a light-hearted jibe.
It is definitely an attractive game and I'd happily play it if I didn't have a complete aversion to JRPGs.
It doesn't blow me away though. I don't look at it and think "fuck me, I've never seen anything that looks that good!". I just don't get that dropped jaw that I got the first time I saw a Dreamcast game or a 360 game. It's really promising for Wii-U owners to see a high-end current gen standard game this early on though, there'll certainly be more juice to squeeze out of that box.
I'm glad we agree on this, because that's pretty much where I stand. I don't think the game blows anyone away to be honest, I guess it's more along the lines of "it looks like a current gen game, but with a touch of visual/graphical effects that make it look, as you say, a whisker about what we've seen on other consoles".
I guess when all the effects come together (huge draw distances, texture work that looks above a lot/most of what we've seen, the shadow work etc) mixed with the art direction, music, the pedigree of the developer/series it all comes together.
All that in a large open world game is what makes it an exciting prospect.
shinobi602
Member
To be honest, I'm pretty happy with where the Wii U stands now. With the PS4 and 720, I'll get my fair share of Uncharteds, Halos, God of Wars, etc. They'll scratch that itch for me like the PS3/360 this gen and blow my brains out graphically, and I can get my "mature" experiences from there.
With my Wii U, I'm stoked for games like Pikmin 3, W101, Mario Kart, Wind Waker HD, "X" game, the Yoshi game, etc. And they all look great to me. Happy to finally get HD Nintendo games, and with solid efforts put into them. My Wii U will easily fill in that void I've been missing for a long time. Good old colorful Nintendo games with a huge visual boost over the Wii, and we haven't even seen the true efforts by Nintendo's internal studios yet.
My Wii U, PS4 and 720 will all sit comfortably under my TV
With my Wii U, I'm stoked for games like Pikmin 3, W101, Mario Kart, Wind Waker HD, "X" game, the Yoshi game, etc. And they all look great to me. Happy to finally get HD Nintendo games, and with solid efforts put into them. My Wii U will easily fill in that void I've been missing for a long time. Good old colorful Nintendo games with a huge visual boost over the Wii, and we haven't even seen the true efforts by Nintendo's internal studios yet.
My Wii U, PS4 and 720 will all sit comfortably under my TV
neo-berserk
Neo Member
M°°nblade;46849691 said:
its because of the cpu,tha's y the U can't have big city w/alot of npc and physics going on.But it can have alot of structure and big textures enviroments because it require no cpu resource,only ram.
Steve Youngblood
Member
So, your position is that we have just enough to go on that we should all clearly agree that it looks "good," but not enough to engage in any sort of technical discussion? Keep in mind, my position here is not that I think technical discussion of graphics is an enthralling and meaningful conversation to have, just that it's one that interests people. I can certainly understand why a lot of normal people would look at this and conclude "what a fucking waste of time." But your own attempt to stop the potential meandering just seems kind of flimsy.
Wind Waker HD is nothing compared to Twilight Bloomcess.
Outside of temporal aliasing issues with some algorithms and perhaps needing more conservative visibility estimates moving fast doesn't change occlusion.
When you add "more stuff" like giant buildings to a scene you add more occluders. Adding occluders is a great way to get scenes to draw faster, given that calculating occlusion is fast and drawing stuff is slow.
The problem with people who want to discuss graphics on a "technical" level rather than "hey this looks good to me" level is that most of those people don't actually know much about technical implementation. So they make technical-sounding arguments that are basically nonsense and no more valuable than "me likey."
I'm sorry you can't seem to handle criticism of a game's trailer without getting defensive and falling back to hyperbole
Not sure what zipping around on power lines has to do with what I was saying. =/
I'm no defense force. I don't actually care about this game, but some of these criticisms are nonsense.
NOT static lighting. Definitely not prebaked (I don't even know what that's supposed to mean when it comes to shadows on dynamic objects). All games with a moving sun lock shadows at some point. A setting sun can cast shadows hundreds of feet long, and this uses gigabytes of RAM for the shadow maps. So all games limit the max angle a shadow can be at. Just look at a time-lapse videos for GTA or RDR to see what I mean.
There is DEFINITELY refraction here. Look at the fish!
At this scale, you can't expect more. They could improve the edge on the water to be less obvious, though.Very low polygonal terrain
Sun height doesnt affect shadows at all. Here sun is about in 30 degree, but shadow is cast from 80 degree. So lighting is static, mostly prebaked. Shadow resolution looks like 1024k.
NOT static lighting. Definitely not prebaked (I don't even know what that's supposed to mean when it comes to shadows on dynamic objects). All games with a moving sun lock shadows at some point. A setting sun can cast shadows hundreds of feet long, and this uses gigabytes of RAM for the shadow maps. So all games limit the max angle a shadow can be at. Just look at a time-lapse videos for GTA or RDR to see what I mean.
Water rendering is very simple, there is no refraction or distortion and no reflections from objects. Also next example of very low resolution alpha textures.
There is DEFINITELY refraction here. Look at the fish!
plagiarize
Banned
they either are the same people, or they aren't. opinion doesn't come into it. name names and quote posts (and I love seeing hypocrisy called out) or bite your tongue. I don't see any point in arguing with people that might not even exist, or indeed, in pointing out the hypocrisy of such people.
right. I've said this before and I'll say it again, you have to be in complete denial to think the Wii U isn't somewhat more powerful than the PS3 and 360... but you also have to be in complete denial to think that it's anything significant (2x or more). you also have to be in complete denial to think that Orbis and Durango will be anything less than 2x more powerful than the Wii U.
I care about graphics, but it isn't all I care about. Nothing on Wii U has wowed me from a technical perspective even though I was wowed by Windwaker HD. I love my system so far for it's abilities, for the game pad, and for the software I have so far played on it... but it's pretty clear where it sits power wise at this point.
I can't be mad at someone like you Dave for demanding their new console provide that technical wow to get their attention, even if I don't feel that way myself.
To be honest, I'm pretty happy with where the Wii U stands now. With the PS4 and 720, I'll get my fair share of Uncharteds, Halos, God of Wars, etc. They'll scratch that itch for me like the PS3/360 this gen and blow my brains out graphically, and I can get my "mature" experiences from there.
With my Wii U, I'm stoked for games like Pikmin 3, W101, Mario Kart, Wind Waker HD, "X" game, the Yoshi game, etc. And they all look great to me. Happy to finally get HD Nintendo games, and with solid efforts put into them. My Wii U will easily fill in that void I've been missing for a long time. Good old colorful Nintendo games with a huge visual boost over the Wii, and we haven't even seen the true efforts by Nintendo's internal studios yet.
My Wii U, PS4 and 720 will all sit comfortably under my TV
I agree! Plus having both handhelds and an "okay" computer for pc exclusives. Lots of fun to be had next-gen.
No it really didn't
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Its obviously more than that, higher resolution textures, better lighting, I wouldn't expect them to go overboard with a remake.
Lots of games have shadows that are stuck directly below the player on purpose. It let's us know where and when we're going to land while jumping, and where airborne enemies/objects are in relation to the ground. It's simply a matter of providing useful information to the player, keeping things from being needlessly frustrating for the sake of realism.
plagiarize
Banned
I would also raise my eyebrows incredibly highly towards anyone suggesting any HD remake is going to represent the best a system can do, unless the game has been completely overhauled ala Resident Evil, Twin Snakes etc. the HD rereleases on 360 and PS3 do not come close to representing the best those systems can do.
It's as dumb as pointing to a multiplatform launch port to try and figure out how powerful a system is.
but anyone holding out hope for some sudden leap in how Wii U games look compared to the absolute best on 360 and PS3... is going to be disappointed. I'm sure we'll see some games that look somewhat (ie noticeably) better, but by then we'll likely already have been more impressed by games on other systems.
Artimities
Banned
I am happy witht he direction the Wii U is headed. They have a good head start in my opinion. By the time the PS4 and Nextbox release... the Wii U will be well into its 2nd and 3rd stretch of game releases.
If there is anything that I have learned with buying consoles since the Atari 2600, is that shortly after launch there is a dead period. If the other consoles are eyeing a holiday release then you know it will be slim pickings for new release from about mid December to March anyway, because that is usually a dead time for new games as companies prep for E3 and the game shows.
What will be key is the sheer amount of quality titles and ports the Wii U can keep putting out while also giving its fans the Nintendo exclusives.
To me the Wii U is not an "only system"... it is a complimentary system, meant to sit along side your PS4 or Xbox.
If there is anything that I have learned with buying consoles since the Atari 2600, is that shortly after launch there is a dead period. If the other consoles are eyeing a holiday release then you know it will be slim pickings for new release from about mid December to March anyway, because that is usually a dead time for new games as companies prep for E3 and the game shows.
What will be key is the sheer amount of quality titles and ports the Wii U can keep putting out while also giving its fans the Nintendo exclusives.
To me the Wii U is not an "only system"... it is a complimentary system, meant to sit along side your PS4 or Xbox.
phosphor112
Banned
Nope.
The shadow right here, is several times longer than the building.
http://youtu.be/i5TQDeoump4?t=1m37s
Hindsight is 20/20. It looked great back then.
Perfect dark zero still has texture work that rivals most games today.
And it did look good back then. It wasn't an OMG experience but the feelings around here after the Wall guy fiasco was that it looked next gen and at times pretty.
I consider a new console that is on par with 7 year old hardware disappointing.
Don´t know about you.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
It is for a next generation console. The games look fine to me, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it to be in the same range as the other two consoles. But yes, I am content with visuals like this. I don't particularly need incredible graphics. And no, this doesn't somehow invalidate my ability to be amazed by the visuals in future games.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
TP only has excess bloom in the Twilight which is a stylistic choice. I never understood why people talk as if the whole game is like that.
Edit: of course, that highly depends on how much bloom you consider too much bloom.
Because you only collect consoles and don't play them, right?
All that lag-free Wii U gamepad streaming technology is 7 years old, right?
The GPU is 7 year old, right?
The CPU (even if not the most powerful) is 7 year old right, and not some custom made/upgraded solution.
I guess you are someone who has a somewhat limited taste in games. That why it's important for you that the next itterations of your favorite CODs/Battlefields, Uncharted games and all it's clones and Sandbox games look significantly better.
If so, you have a right to be dissapointed in the Wii U's hardware power.
Here is were we both are different. My gaming taste is broader. I almost like any genre. That's why I don't thinkt the Wii U's hardware is dissapointing AT ALL.
It's a huge step above the system that offered many different genres and helped keep my gaming hobby fresh - the Wii. Yet, there were still a lot of great oportunities on that machine that weren't used. In other words, all that hardware power wasn't even utilized for a lot of genres.
I want RPGs/SRPGs, great Platformers, fresh ideas (like the Wonderfull 101), a evolution of Party Games like Wii Party and even a handfull (but not more) FPS.
For all of that and many more genres, the Wii U is more than SUFFICIENT. I don't even care if it can run the next Star Wars/Uncharted Clone, Watch dogs or GTA 6. For me, a system has to offer much more than that.
I understand people play different games for different reasons, but to me a game is new if I haven't played it. I recently found Goemon's Great Adventure (N64) and I'm loving it. WiiU being in PS360 territory, even as someone who owns a PS3, means nothing to me because I'm expecting to buy one when it gets games I want, not when it gets games that are considered pretty for a period of 5 years. No offense but it must suck to have such limited taste that you can only enjoy games made for a couple of platforms that can't be older than 5 years.
ScepticMatt
Member
ahahaha
Ok, time to open some eyes i think.
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Very low polygonal terrain
Sun height doesnt affect shadows at all. Here sun is about in 30 degree, but shadow is cast from 80 degree. So lighting is static, mostly prebaked. Shadow resolution looks like 1024k.
Particles quality is on pair with pre PS2 era, alpha texture resolution 64x64?
Water rendering is very simple, there is no refraction or distortion and no reflections from objects. Also next example of very low resolution alpha textures.
Foliage is completely sprite based, same as in Xenoblade
LOD is very aggressive, even for sprite based foliage and that means bandwidth problems of WiiU
Yeah, its on pair with midtier current gen open world games, but even that is generous. What is good in this footage? Characters/NPCs models, materials and HDR.
nice post. Could you do one for the good stuff (npc/modesl, materials and HDR). I like learning (not being sarcastic).
TDLink
Member
Projectjustice
Banned
Just watch the video again from Nintendo direct on the Wii U eshop market on my 50 inch plasma. The amount of detail on this scale is highly impressive and above PS360 can do. I really cant wait to see what the finished product is going to look like.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Be aware that some of that post is leaping to conclusions, some of it is guesswork and some of it is pointing out the obvious. Many of the effects are bad and likely WIP (compare the hideous purple blood to the green spell thing), and the pop in in small geometry is aggressive, but it's false confidence to state as an outside observer that bandwidth is the cause of this in an alpha build. Most open world games use sprites or meshes of only a few intersecting planes for grass, it's not unexpected or unimpressive. Read Margalis' post for why it is unlikely in the extreme for the shadows to be static. IMO, the quality of the trailer is too low to perform an in depth analysis.
and against the tos rules.