Well...profit is profit I guess. I still think it's remarkable their gaming division is making money with Vita bombing at an all-time rate and PS4 development.
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Sony Q3: Game Operating Income $53M (PS3/PS2 15.6M in 2012)
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Well...profit is profit I guess. I still think it's remarkable their gaming division is making money with Vita bombing at an all-time rate and PS4 development.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Within those two, Vaio and Bravia are the real failures.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They had a (loss bearing) console launch, I'm not sure what this has to do with 3DS? 3DS returned to profitability last summer, after a year of loss bearing made it a viable gaming handheld in a cut throat mobile environment.
I guess Sony looked at Nintendo missing projections by just a couple million and decided they needed to dramatically outdo that?
21 - 20 - 17.3
16 - 12 - 10 - 7
PS3 is sold at a good profit for them right now.
Tyrone_Biggums
Banned
Yes you did. And were lambasted for it.
There is a limit to how much that can be. >7m units. Somebody else could probably do the math.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Sony should just kill the Vaio. Why the hell are they producing it anyway? There are much better and cheaper alternatives.
That would be true if it wasn't for the fact that there bread and butter - traditionally televisions e.t.c - are being gobbled up by S. Korean companies and a softening market to boot, and a strong Yen for the past couple of years eating into their margins at home as well.
Diversifying can be an achilles heel, but it also can give a corporation breathing space if one of their divisions gets into trouble.
Cornbread78
Member
Very nice Sony, way to be "Back in Black"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwIvBNsSywQ
Now knowing that the SS are selling at a high profit and the PS4 is on the way, is there any chance at all Sony will put out a price drop in NA for PS3 and VITA after the 2/20 conference?
a $199 VITA and $225 SS would be very attractive price points, if they can still pull a profit off them and oick up some aditional momentum going into PS4 time...
Also, will this new marketing firm start workign on advertising for their LCD/LED TVs finally? I can't remember the last time I saw any advertisment for them and they are realy good quality, but nothing.....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwIvBNsSywQ
Now knowing that the SS are selling at a high profit and the PS4 is on the way, is there any chance at all Sony will put out a price drop in NA for PS3 and VITA after the 2/20 conference?
a $199 VITA and $225 SS would be very attractive price points, if they can still pull a profit off them and oick up some aditional momentum going into PS4 time...
Also, will this new marketing firm start workign on advertising for their LCD/LED TVs finally? I can't remember the last time I saw any advertisment for them and they are realy good quality, but nothing.....
Honestly I don't see any point having a discussion with you. It's the same thing over and over again. Me: Nintendo is losing money. You: something something something something else but nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is Nintendo's profit. You take this shit way too personally, and spend way too much time defending the honor of the 3DS.
If Sony had cut the price of the Vita by $80 they would have lost money in the gaming division, just like Nintendo did when they cut the price by $80. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Nah, it's still too close to the holidays to consider a price cut. They need to wait until at least April. In fact if they do it in March they would take the inventory write down up front, which might actually account for the low profit figure.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
They'll likely do one around E3 in June.
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Somebody break it down to me like a grade schooler...did PS3 really outsell the 360 as reported last month? These numbers and charts are giving me a headache
I don't think it matters to anyone. Nothing is going to change when the PS3 passes the 360, if it hasn't already happened.
We don't know because Sony are being assholes and obfuscating their numbers, most likely because they are ashamed of the Vita numbers.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
What's 'SS'? Thats what I used to use when talking about the Saturn
And I would bet on a PS3 price cut at the conference or at E3. No console in history launched with its predecessor still sitting over $199. IIRC the Xbox and PS3 dropped to $129 (Or $99? I cant find the info) at that point even though MS were losing heavy on each system
Selling the HQ worked out well.
Most likely. But is there a official explanation? Hiding your numbers in a fiscal report seems so...
Most likely. But is there a official explanation? Hiding your numbers in a fiscal report seems so...
Yes, I agree with you. I was trying to figure out what OJG was implying.
Cornbread78
Member
Because they are fiscal reports for investers and they do nto care to deliver numbers for gaming forums and gaming Sales Age professionals. Investers just wat the bottom line and really do not care to compare the PS3/PS2 sales numbers with XBox 360, as long as Sony is profitable.
test_account
XP-39C²
Is it sold yet? The news about it were reported in mid January and was formulated as "is selling", so it wouldnt be covered in the Q3 results if it isnt sold yet. It wouldnt have any affect on the profability of the gaming sector either.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
No, it hasn't actually been sold yet. It's supposed to close in March, so it will be included (as operating income, which makes no sense to me) this fiscal year, assuming no snags.
Fair enough. I'm with you.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
The topic at hand was eating losses shorter term initially in order to secure a platform's longer term viability and future. Which 3DS did and Vita didn't. 3DS is hardly unique in that regard either (PS2, 360, etc). The reason we keep doing this dance is because whenever the notion that Sony could be doing more is brought up, and a comparison to Nintendo's efforts made, you attempt to discredit it by looking purely at overall company profitability, divorcing it from any 3DS context. And then you accuse me if going offtopic?
lol. I don't think I've never met a man in such desperate need of a mirror.
Well, maybe because you keep pointing to Nintendo's current profitability? Let me know when those goalposts get too heavy for you.
test_account
XP-39C²
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That's the most likely target, but they may want to just load the losses up now in a year when they are already performing poorly and line up next year for a massive turnaround.
However, they probably won't have a lot of inventory to write down in June.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Or they could finally release the 12gig outside of Europe.
Sony is delivering the Wii sales seperated, the X360, the WiiU seperated, the 3DS and DS ones seperated. Sony investors are for sure way more interested into detailed DS numbers than into detailed PS3/PS2/Vita/PSP numbers.
They put one in Tokyo on sale and the reports made it look like they already got the money from the NY HQ sale. Am I wrong on this? Feel free to say why
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Yeah. I think they are waiting on a cheap 32GB single flash chip to roll it out globally. In the US I don't think 12GB would be seen as enough.
test_account
XP-39C²
The headquarter in Tokyo was also reported in January 2013 as far as i know, but i dont know if it has sold yet. Jcm said above here that they havnt gotten the money for the New York headquarter yet (or at least it isnt included in the Q3 financial report i would guess).They put one in Tokyo on sale and the reports made it look like they already got the money from the NY HQ sale. Am I wrong on this? Feel free to say why
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, that's because COD/AC were their last hope of saving the platform in the West. They made that pretty clear in interviews last year.
There is no real confirmation of this at all. I'm sure they're not losing massive amounts on it, since it's a much more sensibly designed product than PS3, but the economy of scale would make it very hard, if not impossible, to turn a profit on hardware that's selling this badly.
Which is true, but what impact are those ports/B-titles going to have on Vita hardware?
Sony wishes Vita were selling as "well" as GC. Considering the terrible sales to date and the lack of any system-seller software on the horizon, 22m LTD hardware and 208M LTD software would require the most miraculous turnaround in the history of the industry.
What do niche localizations have to do with original titles, most of which have much higher budgets and thus need to sell far better?
Per creamsugar's leaks in the last NPD thread, we know that it hadn't broken 300K in actual sell-through in the US at the end of 2012; Declassified, of all titles, was the only Vita title that did so. A 300K sales ceiling on a new platform is remarkably awful, no matter how you slice it.
Yep, those Western third parties must be pleased as punch with how their software is selling on Vita. Just look at their current 2013 lineup for the platform, consisting of two Lego games and, uh... what else? As for Japanese third parties, there's really nothing coming up besides niche titles and Bamco/Tecmo Koei multiplats. If they have faith in the Vita ecosystem, that's a very strange way to show it.
And yes, I know what that one Ubi exec said about Liberation's sales in one interview back in November. Actions speak louder than words. When they announce another Vita exclusive of comparable scale, I'll believe they're happy with how it sold.
According to your optimistic assumptions and your bottomless faith in retailers to keep carrying it, yes.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Sony is delivering the Wii sales seperated, the X360, the WiiU seperated, the 3DS and DS ones seperated. Sony investors are for sure way more interested into detailed DS numbers than into detailed PS3/PS2/Vita/PSP numbers.
They put one in Tokyo on sale and the reports made it look like they already got the money from the NY HQ sale. Am I wrong on this? Feel free to say why
You are wrong. The proceeds of the sale will be booked in Q4 when the sale closes on March 15th. Reports saying that Sony posted an operating profit this quarter because of the sale of their HQ are wrong, the proceeds from that sale haven't been booked. I'm not even sure the figure is excluded in their FY forecast.
The sale is listed right at the end of the PDF under post 31/12/12 developments.
AranhaHunter
Banned
ADRs have taken a huge hit:
SNE 14.83 -0.99 (-6.26%) 14.91B
Could have something to do with not meeting analysts expectations.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...eecc56-7109-11e2-b3f3-b263d708ca37_story.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/07/us-sony-earnings-idUSBRE91606I20130207
SNE 14.83 -0.99 (-6.26%) 14.91B
Could have something to do with not meeting analysts expectations.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...eecc56-7109-11e2-b3f3-b263d708ca37_story.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/07/us-sony-earnings-idUSBRE91606I20130207
Yep. In the UK some stores ended up refusing to stock the Gamecube because of its 'soft' sales.
The Vita's bigger problem I think is the software. There's no margin for Sony or retailers on the actual hardware. They both make money on software and accessories. If the retailers can't sell the software, there's no reason for them to carry the hardware. I guess maybe the memory cards help somewhat, since there's probably a decent margin there, and anyone who is buying hardware needs one. Except then the bundles have been including them, which returns us to square one.
So I think the question is, what level of sales keeps Vita in retailers? If they are down, say 25% YOY this year, is the system still viable? What if they're down 50% YOY? Also, with the console generation changeover, shelf space will be at a real premium. 6 consoles, most of them in multi-SKU variations, plus 4 handhelds, also in multi-SKU variations? That's a tall order for say, Target or Walmart.
And to think the PSP is probably doing at least a third of those numbers. lol So does anybody have any idea what LTD sales are for the PS3? I tried reasoning around 0.8 for the PS2 this last quarter, which would put the PS3 at 76 mil. Is that a reasonable guess?
Like I said previously in this thread, Sony needs to come up with solutions for the Vita's lack of sales soon. However, I look at there coming software line-up and I can't see anything that would make people go out and get a Vita and, as you have noted, with the coming generation retailers are going to be really pressed to find shelf space for it. They can't just allow the Vita to keep limping like it is.
PSP is selling more than Vita in Europe and Japan.
shinra-bansho
Member
Through to March 31st 2012 it was 63.9M.
From April 1st through December 31st 2012 PS3 + PS2 was 13.1M.
The PS3 is at 77M - whatever the PS2 shipped during that period.
For the equivalent period the prior year:
PS2 = 3.5M (1.4M->1.2M->0.9M)
PS3 = 12M (1.8M->3.7M->6.5M)
Considering the downward trajectory it was on, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS2 shipped <=2M for the 9 months ended Dec 31st, bringing the PS3 LTD to ~75M. But it's difficult to determine any concrete figure.
Edit: NVM I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying 2M PS2 for the quarter. 2M for 3 quarters seems reasonable. Carry on.
shinra-bansho
Member
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I would be surprised if PS2 sold over 1.5m tbh, Sony were really winding it down last year.
Separately, I was just taking a look through Sony Ericsson's old income statements. They sold 6m Xperia phones last year, so they still had a 45% YoY increase in shipments which is a good result. I think the next quarter is going to be massive for them in mobile if they market Xperia Z properly. In the UK the ball is just getting rolling, they really need to push it hard. I think Q1 could be their best ever.
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