Guess what, I live in Georgia too, and before that I lived in Illinios and Massachusettes. Georgia isn't any worse than those states from my experience.
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Adam Orth no longer with Microsoft
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
Guess what, I live in Georgia too, and before that I lived in Illinios and Massachusettes. Georgia isn't any worse than those states from my experience.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
What he did was obviously stupid, but I still feel it was pretty harsh to fire him. Poor guy.
Personally I have sometimes opened my mouth and said some pretty stupid shit that I regretted later.. I'm sure everyone has.
I more or less feel the same way. Thing is, he said what he said in writing. On full display for everyone to see.
What he did was obviously stupid, but I still feel it was pretty harsh to fire him
Personally I have sometimes opened my mouth and said some pretty stupid shit that I regretted later.. I'm sure everyone has.
The problem is that not everyone is in a higher up position like that of a creative director for a video game production studio owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation.
The guy clearly didn't understand his responsibilities and the fact that he was expected to keep his fucking mouth shut about sensitive company matters.
dragonelite
Member
Not even that how disconnected of your fanbase can you be to troll your future customers.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
oh ffs, stop believing that victimizing "the internet did it" bull. That guy fucked up royally, and repeatedly, and didn't even stop after "the internet" told him it's a stupid idea.
He didn't try to defend his company, he attacked random other people out of nowhere. He made the whole company look like egoistic morons. He did so voluntarily.
People know how many followers they have on twitter, and they better know what to post on there and what to say to friends with a few beers around, especially when they are in a freaking major position in the heavily internet-savvy gaming industry. If he had shut up, he wouldn't have been removed from the company. It's just that easy.
It is NOT GAFs or anyones fault he got fired over these insults and attacks and nonsense twitter posts, it's no one's but his own, and he should have known better.
He didn't try to defend his company, he attacked random other people out of nowhere. He made the whole company look like egoistic morons. He did so voluntarily.
People know how many followers they have on twitter, and they better know what to post on there and what to say to friends with a few beers around, especially when they are in a freaking major position in the heavily internet-savvy gaming industry. If he had shut up, he wouldn't have been removed from the company. It's just that easy.
It is NOT GAFs or anyones fault he got fired over these insults and attacks and nonsense twitter posts, it's no one's but his own, and he should have known better.
IHaveCandy
Banned
He didnt say there was any monopoly. He just said he hates that there is more of it there.
iamaustrian
Member
"why on earth would I live there?" is the most ignorant thing I read in the last couple of months.
I rather live in the countryside than in a crowded, polluted and crime-ridden city, you arrogant fuck.
I rather live in the countryside than in a crowded, polluted and crime-ridden city, you arrogant fuck.
He DID mean to say that to a friend only, and as a joke. Of course when it's on Twitter everyone else in the world sees that and thinks differently, thus contributing to this shit storm.
And man, not like all cities are the same, nevermind suburbs.
iamaustrian
Member
well, he DID post it on twitter for the whole world to see.
it's his own fault. not that his other tweets are any better
Can't really contest either, that's kind of the problem with twitter in that it can be like a chatroom that the whole world can eavesdrop on. Unless you actually lock the damn thing, then at worst you have the fallback of claiming "well I made it private for a reason!" if someone retweets.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
That joke was taken out of context... He was making fun of where his friend lives. Also, I live in a low-crime city and it's quite nice.
"Why on earth would I live there?" was kinda supposed to be a joke, in the "not my problem" vein. People reacted, it was funny, and then it became a "thing". Online media ran stories, Orth received death threats, and Microsoft thought they had to act to quell the backlash.
Part of the reason it became a thing is because online peeps started to get mad face about it, and that part is annoying. As if what he wrote was the most offensive thing ever to be posted on the internet. As if Kamiya doesn't get praised for being a professional tweethole. I guess he gets a pass for being a gaming celebrity, I dunno. Point is it used to be a joke, and then it became a joke of a different order.
And he apologized for that joke immediately after.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Why do people keep making this comparison and pretending the context of these issues is the same thing?
I'd like an explanation on how these two situations are comparable outside of "guy in games industry makes douchey remarks".
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Don't worry his game sales will see to him towards that
Some words for Cliffy. I do not think he needs to be told these things, he did not write a 200 page theses which covered every possible situation and argument, but a few of his statements were a little silly.
Epic is not Microsoft, and Cliffy you were never whatever that guys name was. We only know him from his comments bashing Halo, and now his Twitter fuck up.
First off, lets talk about Epic. Epic makes games, they create engines that fuel other games, and they have top people who talk shit like Mark Rein.
They are not the company that provides the OS for the majority of computers out there. They are not a 60 billion a year plus corporation, and I am pretty sure they are not public.
You guys have always been in a position where you could talk a little shit. You were not Nickelodeon or Disney. So any comparison to yourself while you were a top dog at Epic is not comparable to someone at MS.
His crime was not being aware of this whole Internet thing. Plus, we know where he works and who he represents, and he put that super multi billion dollar company in a negative light.
I agree that the anger, and the witch hunt that has gone on here at GAF and elsewhere is completely insane. There are a ton of mean spirited ass holes that have ragged on this guy, and have drug MS through the mud. That has expanded to major news articles even beyond the gaming press. But these people who are creating a shit storm do not work for a giant crazy ass huge company like Microsoft. He should have known better.
As soon as I saw his comments, I thought, "this guy is going to get fired." If I was in control of MS, I would have fired him even if he was my best friend in the world. You cannot work for a company as big as MS, and have an off day where you publically take a shit on the internet.
What is interesting about this whole situation is that you made a long post, explaining the situation and your arguments. You put up a defense, and explained some of the reasoning behind such decisions. He did not even do that though. He used Twitter which nobody probably should use to begin with, and even when he apologized it was a "Jesus Christ I am Sorry You Guys are so Stupid," apology.
Yes the whole GAF community can be quite stupid at times, or the loudest bitchy voices become the most dominant. But if you work for a major corporation, you should know that your comments are going to be dissected in such a manner.
Epic is not Microsoft, and Cliffy you were never whatever that guys name was. We only know him from his comments bashing Halo, and now his Twitter fuck up.
First off, lets talk about Epic. Epic makes games, they create engines that fuel other games, and they have top people who talk shit like Mark Rein.
They are not the company that provides the OS for the majority of computers out there. They are not a 60 billion a year plus corporation, and I am pretty sure they are not public.
You guys have always been in a position where you could talk a little shit. You were not Nickelodeon or Disney. So any comparison to yourself while you were a top dog at Epic is not comparable to someone at MS.
His crime was not being aware of this whole Internet thing. Plus, we know where he works and who he represents, and he put that super multi billion dollar company in a negative light.
I agree that the anger, and the witch hunt that has gone on here at GAF and elsewhere is completely insane. There are a ton of mean spirited ass holes that have ragged on this guy, and have drug MS through the mud. That has expanded to major news articles even beyond the gaming press. But these people who are creating a shit storm do not work for a giant crazy ass huge company like Microsoft. He should have known better.
As soon as I saw his comments, I thought, "this guy is going to get fired." If I was in control of MS, I would have fired him even if he was my best friend in the world. You cannot work for a company as big as MS, and have an off day where you publically take a shit on the internet.
What is interesting about this whole situation is that you made a long post, explaining the situation and your arguments. You put up a defense, and explained some of the reasoning behind such decisions. He did not even do that though. He used Twitter which nobody probably should use to begin with, and even when he apologized it was a "Jesus Christ I am Sorry You Guys are so Stupid," apology.
Yes the whole GAF community can be quite stupid at times, or the loudest bitchy voices become the most dominant. But if you work for a major corporation, you should know that your comments are going to be dissected in such a manner.
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
Seconded!
Uh, I made the "douchey remarks" comparison without having to pretend anything about the context of these issues. In fact I did the opposite of pretending the context in each case is the same. The differences between Orth's situation and Kamiya's, which are reflected by the overall reaction to their tweets, actually point at a certain hypocrisy.
As for said context, ahem, people generally agree with Kamiya and they don't with Orth/Microsoft. This makes a ginormous difference given the controversy is over Orth's mocking tone and not any position asserted thereby...oh wait, it doesn't.
So the situation we're left with is we're quite content to celebrate one smug asshole because we like him and mostly agree with him, but then we caterwaul about someone's infinitely-less-but-still-smug tone because we disagree with him? And this doesn't make us look like whiny hypocrites?
I personally disagree with Adam Orth on this, so in a sense his mockery was directed at me. Except it wasn't. Because, to add some further context to the discussion, he was cracking wise with a twitter friend and not showing Kamiya-esque disdain towards the public. Still, I wasn't humourless enough to be offended by his comments and I think it sucks he lost his job over the stupid internet's stupid reaction.
PrivateRyan
Member
How would that have stopped him from tweeting what he did?
something fishy
Member
I think it's very harsh to say it's good someone has lost their livelihood and judging them as a clown based on one incident.
the man has lost his job, this could well devastate his career. I just can't see that as good.
I think the man was foolish and should have had more sense but I cannot see anything good about this.
I think he got fired for breaking the golden rule of big-corp PR. He commented on rumour and speculation.
In doing so he sort of confirmed the rumours to be true, or at least that's a very reasonable conclusion to come to.
scytheavatar
Member
His career being devastated is a small insignificant news compared to Microsoft's entire next gen plans being devastated by a PR nightmare. Nothing good comes out of this except that Microsoft employees now all know that they should not run their mouth on social media and make a mockery out of the company.
something fishy
Member
yes, he should have known that.
if I came out and made a comment that reflected badly on my employer the same thing would happen to me.
but it's a sad ending.
if I came out and made a comment that reflected badly on my employer the same thing would happen to me.
but it's a sad ending.
Some words for Cliffy, the shit you got right.
If you are going to a cabin in the woods, yeah it is probably better not to bring your console with you. While it would be nice if your console worked, your phone, your IPAD WiFi, and your laptop would also be pretty useless in such a situation. If you are going to a cabin in the woods, enjoy being away from all that bull shit.
Other things he was correct about is the evolution of gaming in general. The world is evolving, and concepts like always online are going to become the norm no matter how much we bitch about it. You do have always online games like the new Sim City, Diablo 3, WOW, DOTA 2, and the other huge sellers like COD, Halo, and Battlefield where the game itself is pretty bare bones without online play. Look at your IPAD and look at the top grossing games, they are mostly always online affairs. No amount of bitching is going to bring the good ol days back again.
No amount of yelling "Anti Consumer" is going to change how the industry works. Those examples that many dismissed as silly in regards to other industries are actually relavent. You need a gas station to get gas. You need electricity for your television. You need Windows to play most PC games. You can only watch newly released films at a movie theater, and then they decide you can watch it at a hotel, then they decide you can only purchase a digital version of such film, then they decide you can rent the film or get it on demand, or purchase it on Blu-Ray/DVD... then they take away most of those formats and you maybe get it on Netflix, or HBO. Eventually it may come to cable television, and on the rare occasion you are "Saving Private Ryan" and you get to see on the few "free" networks. Nobody bitches about that process which is even more crazy anti consumer then anything you see in the gaming industry. But it is so engrained that you deal with it, just as you will the future of gaming.
If you are going to a cabin in the woods, yeah it is probably better not to bring your console with you. While it would be nice if your console worked, your phone, your IPAD WiFi, and your laptop would also be pretty useless in such a situation. If you are going to a cabin in the woods, enjoy being away from all that bull shit.
Other things he was correct about is the evolution of gaming in general. The world is evolving, and concepts like always online are going to become the norm no matter how much we bitch about it. You do have always online games like the new Sim City, Diablo 3, WOW, DOTA 2, and the other huge sellers like COD, Halo, and Battlefield where the game itself is pretty bare bones without online play. Look at your IPAD and look at the top grossing games, they are mostly always online affairs. No amount of bitching is going to bring the good ol days back again.
No amount of yelling "Anti Consumer" is going to change how the industry works. Those examples that many dismissed as silly in regards to other industries are actually relavent. You need a gas station to get gas. You need electricity for your television. You need Windows to play most PC games. You can only watch newly released films at a movie theater, and then they decide you can watch it at a hotel, then they decide you can only purchase a digital version of such film, then they decide you can rent the film or get it on demand, or purchase it on Blu-Ray/DVD... then they take away most of those formats and you maybe get it on Netflix, or HBO. Eventually it may come to cable television, and on the rare occasion you are "Saving Private Ryan" and you get to see on the few "free" networks. Nobody bitches about that process which is even more crazy anti consumer then anything you see in the gaming industry. But it is so engrained that you deal with it, just as you will the future of gaming.
''Deal with it'' huh?
Compare it to whatever you want, it is a gaming forum here, so I think this is legitimate that people are upset about the future of their hobby. An all online future represents a supplementary restriction to the end users, while it may sounds okay to you, many don't want this to happen and I totally understand that and I do feel the same.
The industry changes, but if the people don't like how things are going they have all the rights in the world to express it. This is one of the many reasons of why I love GAF so much.
I should be doing hw
Member
What are you talking about? The physical formats don't get "taken away" by anybody.
Nobody is trying to silence such opinions. I am not even going so far as to say "Deal with it."
Nintendo will sell Super Mario Bros 3 or the original Zelda for the umpteenth time and you will be able to use it without an online connection. But a lot of games these days work off of the ability to access the Internet.
The new Sim City for example is built around it. If you want to play offline build your own city, then you still have 4 other Sim Cities to enjoy, assuming there is an electrical socket in the room and you have a portable system to attach to said electrical socket.
The actual in theater format goes away, as does the hotel room purchase. Plus often digital download versions of films are removed when they hit cable channels, and then maybe they come back after a time. Also you have Redbox exclusives or more commonly films that are not released to Redbox until the physical DVD/BR version of the film is a couple of months old. Do you boycott films or studios for engaging in such practices?
Post 1730
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Oh, wow.
You must have more to say then that.
If it was built around singleplayer, it would not have super small cities where you have to trade with other users in order to improve your situation. You may hate the idea of the game and those that participate in it, but they did not make a singleplayer Sim City game.
I should be doing hw
Member
Again, where and when are the "physical formats" being taken away? Plus dedicated theatres rerelease films all the time; the theatre format is never truly extinguished.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned(maybe I didn't look real hard) is the possibility he may have breached his contract with Microsoft for bringing the company into disrepute. This is something I can relate to after signing a new contract a few months ago. I cannot talk about my company/projects on any social media unless given the express permission to do so by the CEO, otherwise I am in deep shit basically.
People have to watch what they say on social media, especially if you have your employer linked to your profile.
People have to watch what they say on social media, especially if you have your employer linked to your profile.
Just look at Disney and the Vault. Physical formats of films are sometimes put in the bank for decades.
Do you not see that you have to stretch the argument in order to make it palpable?
I would argue that the film industry grabs you by the balls from the very beginning, and then makes money on people while spreading from format to format.
Yes you can buy a physical copy of films after they have run you through the mill a few times. But fundamentally it is an "anti consumer approach..
Simple concepts such as displaying a film publically, even if publically only mean you and 6 other people in the same room, is a big portion of that FBI warning at the top of any physical film you obtain. Yet we do not bat an eye, because it is common.
It has been mentioned several times, and I think the consensus is that he did not directly leak information. It simply comes down to him and his Twitter comments in which people jumped on and through his connection with MS enough people complained that they had no other choice.
So what's your point then? We shouldn't complain about anti-consumer practices in video games because anti-consumer practices occur outside of video games? Personally, I go the cinema maybe three or four times a year, and very rarely rent or buy movies or TV series. Anti-consumer practices in movies/television just don't bother me as much because I'm nowhere near as invested in those industries as I am in the video game industry. Just because someone has a grievance with one thing doesn't mean they are obliged to have a grievance with every other entity that exhibits that same "thing". You're simply not proving anything by saying "look, it's happening here too and you're ok with it". I mean, we're on a video game forum talking about video games. You have no idea how interested people are in those other industries or whether or not they are ok with it happening in those industries either.
KittenMaster
Member
Assuming you mean online only.. From what I understand: no, it's not built around that concept. They slapped the most minimal online DRM and called it a day.
The point was that it is not a unique concept to the video game industry.
Yes you can complain all you want, but if you do it while ignoring historical trends then you are somewhat putting the VG industry to some higher standard then every other form of business.
Autofokus
Member
I don't get this argument at all. Shouldn't it be _my_ decision to do so? And why are those other devices 'pretty useless'? I can load up my iPad with tons of offline-stuff, like articles (Instapaper, Pocket etc.) to books, comics and obviously games. You're not automatically a digital media addict because you sitting in a chair at night in front of a nice fireplace, enjoying mentioned media.
I cannot pretend to know their original intent. Whether it was about money, or some sort of new concept that they found to be innovative I cannot tell you.
I just look at the information and I see a Sim City game that was not meant to be played singleplayer only, and the concepts behind what makes the game interesting involve a persistent online group
I should be doing hw
Member
I'm pretty sure the shoe is on the other foot here in terms of how much weight you are pressing on a clear outliers. Many of those titles supposedly to be locked in the "vault" are still readily available from physical stores or online. Second hand markets also exist too for any physical object, which in many ways can be pro-consumer. I'm not arguing that all practices you mention aren't anti-consumer but you're being quite hyperbolic and disingenuous by suggesting it is a common occurrence for physical formats to just be "taken away" from us, which is what I originally took issue with.
Well recent rumors point to the 720 not actually being required to be always connect. And yes you IPAD may still work without any WiFi conection, but it becomes a shell of what it is capable of.
And I do have to admit, it's far more essential for a PORTABLE device to not require the internet at all times. Granted we do have a lot of hotspots and many phones can act as personal ones, but it's still a terrible idea for a portable device where it's not essential functionality, I should be able to play at least paid Angry Birds even if I can't watch Netflix (incidentally I DID have issues with Seasons due to not having an internet connection when I had downtime and wanted to play a bit of it.)
For consoles it's primarily a matter of thinking about the long term and recognizing that our internet connections - and theirs for that matter - are still problematic enough to depend on being there all the time. EVEN in urban areas.
Historical trends such as? I'd really need some direct comparisons here, but I don't think any exist. We've never seen how consumers have reacted to a device - specifically a gaming console - that required an uninterrupted internet connection to operate. I just don't think the parallels you're trying to draw are really all that parallel.
Even ignoring all that, the implication that complaining is useless because history is bound to repeat itself is odd. Not complaining would surely see history repeating itself a lot quicker and more easily.
Autofokus
Member
I hope so, but does it matter? In this whole 'cabin in the woods' scenario, we assume we can't do shit with the console without the capability to get online.
This is debatable. That's highly dependent how you use the device. If you're primary focusing on browsing, social media and other online services - you're absolutely right. I can just talk for myself and I'm using it mostly for reading (sources which are typically stored locally) and occasionally playing games. Sure, I'm using all the online stuff (like for example Netflix streaming) too - but my iPad doesn't suddenly become a useless brick if I'm (maybe forced) happen to be offline.