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[Niero]

Look, if you want to do damage control, you gotta give us more than "there's more to it than that, but I can't say." Tell us: what was there to gain by delaying the story? Why did you tell him to hold off? And when people were publicly attacking him, why did you feel compelled to order him take the character assassination without being able to defend himself?

I'm willing to listen; I've worked in newsrooms. But you can't be vindicated by just saying, "That's how the business works." Tell us why the calls you made weren't terrible calls, and why his disregard of those decisions was egregious enough for a firing. Everyone makes employment mistakes sometimes, and most aren't fire-worthy. Tell us why the calls you made were not so terrible that disregarding them is the only thing a reasonable person would do, and why his disregard of those calls was fire-worthy.

If you can't tell us, we get that, but you can't expect us to change our minds. If you're worried about your site being boycotted, better ignore the lawyer advice and open up.

I wouldn't say "that's how business works" actually. But lets look at what a few days of polish can achieve (or why managing editors exist in the first place).

Just compare the story posted on Saturday on GamersWithoutBigotry to the raw material on Twitlonger (which was deleted) that I was so against posting on Tuesday.

Both contain the same information, but nobody's flipping cars at me over the latter. What was posted on Saturday had way more polish, it read better, an editor oversaw it before publishing it, it was balanced in that the fraud culprit is quoted, and is obviously free of liability. The Saturday piece was BASED on the Tuesday notes, and I love the other article.

Since the fraud stuff was reported four weeks before that there was no reason to rush into this. It would have still exposed all the facts and turned a lot of heads and made more of an impact and not rubbed anybody the wrong way. I'm oversimplifying what happened, but I think you'll get my drift.

 

[PogiJones]

THANK YOU. That's 10000000% it.

But the story WAS watertight. His source was Chloe. You're only responding to those who agree with you. If you want us to sympathize--and we're willing to--you gotta tell us what you were waiting on. Because the source was Chloe, so it wasn't to verify the legitimacy of the story. Tell us the reason. If you choose not to tell us (yes, it's a choice, lawyer or no), then you can expect nothing else than the backlash you're getting.

 

[Niero]

But the story WAS watertight. His source was Chloe. You're only responding to those who agree with you. If you want us to sympathize--and we're willing to--you gotta tell us what you were waiting on. Because the source was Chloe, so it wasn't to verify the legitimacy of the story. Tell us the reason. If you choose not to tell us (yes, it's a choice, lawyer or no), then you can expect nothing else than the backlash you're getting.

The source was also a proven liar and a fraud. That was made public a MONTH before this happened.

Aside from that, there's the matter of some of the info having been acquired in confidence.

But lets say the source wasn't a fraud and the info wasn't told in confidence.

You simply do not post a story that controversial without proofing it by your managing editor, and you certainly don't handle things as they were handled on Twitter. That wouldn't fly in any news organization, period.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Will never click on anything Destructoid ever again. Totally scummy moves all round. News organisations don't/shouldn't just drop their employees into the boiling lava when the heat gets a little uncomfortable around their collars.

 

[Hasney]

From what I've read through this, most of the people upset at Destructoid are taking a knee-jerk stance to assume that the firing was due to the content and pressure from other groups, right?

The way it's gone down with the story just being shoved on Twitlonger, I have no reason to doubt Niero's explanations and I can completely see why Alastair was fired over the matter. I know the internet is all about scoops and breaking news, but you don't just shove a story on a corner of the internet because you can't get clearance to post a story that second. The only part that gives me any doubt was Dale North saying there was a change in editorial policy as a result of this all happening. Can you shed some light on the policy change at all?

 

[Wrestlemania]

Will never click on anything Destructoid ever again. Totally scummy moves all round. News organisations don't/shouldn't just drop their employees into the boiling lava when the heat gets a little uncomfortable around their collars.

Have you even read Niero's posts?

 

[Niero]

Can someone give me a summary of updates please? The fired journalist is suing I gather?

No, I'm not being sued. I'm just clearing up some misinformation, while also being careful not to get sued while clearing up said misinformation

 

[Pie and Beans]

Have you even read Niero's posts?

Yes and they're all very

 

[Wrestlemania]

Yes and they're all very

They don't read like that at all to me. I think there's a lot of people who are going to wilfully ignore his side in favour of the one which fits their preferred narrative. Par for the course when it comes to these sorts of issues.

 

[Corto]

Will never click on anything Destructoid ever again. Totally scummy moves all round. News organisations don't/shouldn't just drop their employees into the boiling lava when the heat gets a little uncomfortable around their collars.

When employees get directly involved in the story that they should be reporting, becoming active part of it, don't excuse themselves from reporting it, resulting in they losing their judgment and go against direct superior orders, then they should be dropped.

 

[Niero]

From what I've read through this, most of the people upset at Destructoid are taking a knee-jerk stance to assume that the firing was due to the content and pressure from other groups, right?

The way it's gone down with the story just being shoved on Twitlonger, I have no reason to doubt Niero's explanations and I can completely see why Alastair was fired over the matter. I know the internet is all about scoops and breaking news, but you don't just shove a story on a corner of the internet because you can't get clearance to post a story that second. The only part that gives me any doubt was Dale North saying there was a change in editorial policy as a result of this all happening. Can you shed some light on the policy change at all?

Correct, and thanks for bringing that up.

We adopted a zero-tolerance firing policy for outing a gay/bi/transgender person without their written consent, even if the outing was not intended maliciously (ie: there's no more room for "he/she meant well" or any of that gray area). It is a very serious matter. Legal repercussions aside, it statistically puts them at high risk of murder or suicide.

This new policy is only applicable only to future employees. This policy did/does NOT affect Allistair, as it did not exist prior to his employment.

 

[BanGy.nz]

We adopted a zero-tolerance firing policy for outing a gay/bi/transgender person without their consent, even if the outing was not intended maliciously

Thats fantastic.

 

[tfur]

What PR grief are you talking about? Chloe PARDONED the guy. You've read nothing.

Chloe pardoned the guy?

How does a mentally ill (by medical definition of the suicidal) person, runnig an internet scam, pardon anyone in this story?

 

[Pie and Beans]

When employees get directly involved in the story that they should be reporting, becoming active part of it, don't excuse themselves from reporting it, resulting in they losing their judgment and go against direct superior orders, then they should be dropped.

How many times has Jim Sterling been fired again?

 

[Niero]

Chloe pardoned the guy?

How does a mentally ill (by medical definition of the suicidal) person, runnig an internet scam, pardon anyone in this story?

Here's the story I wish we could have run on Destructoid:

http://gamersagainstbigotry.org/2013/05/chloe-allistair-roundtable/

 

[wildfire]

I've found the apologetics of Sagal's actions to disgusting. The way she's been made out to be the victim is sickening when the only thing she's a victim of is her own foolish actions. Sure, the argument can be made that she wasn't in the most sound frame of mind and that probably has some merit, but at the end of the day she's tried to commit a serious crime. And has managed to walk away from it while the person responsible for informing others (even if they made some misguided decisions in the process) has lost their job. Incredibly unjust.

I can understand it from Pinsof (as posted in the OP) in an attempt -- obviously a futile one as we now know -- to save his job, but from others... the double standards people have been treating this with are staggering.

It's disgusting on two fronts. Both that it's suggesting that trans people are weak and need protecting from the consequences of their actions, but also that they're above the law and basics of morality. Like not defrauding people for a serious chunk of cash.

She's a victim of a society that harasses her for her orientation and her family that disowned her for betraying some core tenants of what their family was built on. She had social support in the first place she wouldn't be trying to scam people. People scam for thrills or due to lack of resources and it was obvious she was desperately doing it for the latter.

Showing sympathy or support for her should have no bearing on Alistair's actions.

Unfortunately many people aren't able to separate what he needed to do with the prejudice transgenders face, and they are wrong for not separating the two.


Alistar did the right thing and Chloe needs support, so she becomes less suicidal and less desperate to commit a crime like she did.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Can someone give me a summary of updates please? The fired journalist is suing I gather?

Where the hell do you get this stuff? I'm guessing you're not even reading the thread?

The source was also a proven liar and a fraud. That was made public a MONTH before this happened.

Aside from that, there's the matter of some of the info having been acquired in confidence.

But lets say the source wasn't a fraud and the info wasn't told in confidence.

You simply do not post a story that controversial without proofing it by your managing editor, and you certainly don't handle things as they were handled on Twitter. That wouldn't fly in any news organization, period.

Can you show us where it was made public a month ago? All I've seen is you saying that indiegogo was notified a month ago but that doesn't mean it was made public.

And I'm not sure why you're using Chloe being "a liar and a fraud" as proof that it had to be fact checked. Please tell us the circumstances where a liar/fraud would tell a person incriminating details that weren't true? I'm not seeing the logic at all that the person committing the fraud and incriminating themselves would be twisting a story that only hurts them.

 

[wildfire]

I wouldn't say "that's how business works" actually. But lets look at what a few days of polish can achieve (or why managing editors exist in the first place).

Just compare the story posted on Saturday on GamersWithoutBigotry to the raw material on Twitlonger (which was deleted) that I was so against posting on Tuesday.

No chance that your article would've been handled in a similar manner as the GWB discussion. Don't bother citing a heartfelt carefully mediated discussion with an exposé.

There's also no chance that the original article Alistair ran-by and had been edited by you would match the vitriol in his twitlonger which was influenced by both Chloe's actions and your own.

If you were going to publish it eventually Alistar could've waited. Even though I'm putting words in his mouth, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since he certainly held off by Chloe's own requests even though she was doing a serious crime.

You on the other hand are going to have to prove yourself after the court case is settled because that's all you are willing to do.

 

[Niero]

No chance that your article would've been handled in a similar manner as the GWB discussion. Don't bother citing a heartfelt carefully mediated discussion with an exposé.

There's also no chance that the original article Alistair ran-by and had been edited by you would match the vitriol in his twitlonger which was influenced by both Chloe's actions and your own.

If you were going to publish it eventually Alistar could've waited. Even though I'm putting words in his mouth, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since he certainly held off by Chloe's own requests even though she was doing a serious crime.

You on the other hand are going to have to prove yourself after the court case is settled because that's all you are willing to do.

That's a given, but given that Allistair would have still been employed on Saturday at Destructoid he could have followed up when she was cleared from the hospital. No sense in talking about either what-if scenario other than the fact that both what-ifs are more sound grounds to publish IMHO.

 

[Niero]

Can you show us where it was made public a month ago?

Here's where it was proven that it was fraud and people got their money back a month ago. You can sort the comments by newest to confirm it wasn't a later update by the editor.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...cessfully-crowd-funding-life-saving-operation

Once again, this goes to show how misinformed people faulting me for "withholding the truth" last week surely didn't know the truth was already reported/documented long ago.

 

[StarCreator]

Here's where it was proven that it was fraud and people got their money back a month ago. You can sort the comments by newest to confirm it wasn't a later update by the editor.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...cessfully-crowd-funding-life-saving-operation

Once again, this goes to show how misinformed people faulting me for "withholding the truth" last week surely didn't know the truth was already reported/documented long ago.

Since the updates to that article are undated, we have no way of knowing that the whole truth was known back in April. I honestly find it hard to believe that this whole situation would even exist if update 4 was live before last week.

 

[Niero]

Since the updates to that article are undated, we have no way of knowing that the whole truth was known back in April. I honestly find it hard to believe that this whole situation would even exist if update 4 was live before last week.

Sort the comments backwards. Those are dated. Look for the ones on 4/5 regarding fraud and transgender. The Reddit screenshots dated on the 5th are what I believe were forwarded to IndieGoGo the following week which prompted the refund.

 

[StarCreator]

Sort the comments backwards. Those are dated, and talk about both fraud and transgender 3 weeks ago. And like I said, neither of these are reasons why Allistair was let go.

Okay, then the question becomes why there were obviously marching orders not to post anything regarding the matter at Destructoid's despite the truth already being posted at Eurogamer. Allistair was certainly involved at that point and the truth was already out, so that's at least three weeks the situation was known to Destructoid's editorial staff. Why should I believe that one more weekend would have made a difference?

 

[Niero]

Okay, then the question becomes why there were obviously marching orders not to post anything regarding the matter at Destructoid. Allistair was certainly involved at that point and the truth was already out, so that's at least three weeks the situation was known to Destructoid's editorial staff. Why should I believe that one more weekend would have made a difference?

I give up. I'm clearly wasting my time here. Free tin foil hats for all.

 

[Wario64]

Some more messages from Allistair:

IGG already flagged her page as a scam. I contacted them asking them what they were doing about it. IGG can confirm that's all.

I made clear every step of the way what occurred to staff. I only "exposed" her when I knew she was safe in a hospital on May 14.

Niero is trying to pretend things he said and emails he sent can be undone. He threatens legal action because that's all he can do, now.

All of staff knows the truth. In weeks to come, they'll jump ship or stand by him and his lies. I don't really care.

I don't want to see the place burn and I still love and respect everyone there, no matter what they decide.

Niero is a good guy too. He just didn't know how to handle his brand being under severe attack. He never spoke to me on the phone once.

In the end, he bragged about how I can't get unemployment because I have a 1099 contract and

he can fire whoever he wants because his business is based in Florida, an at-will employment state.

I won't say anything else but draw your own conclusions on how Niero's messages have been revised in reaction to outside commentary.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Wow, this whole thing is a mess. Three weeks does seem like a long time to hold onto something like this, though.

 

[StarCreator]

I give up. I'm clearly wasting my time here. Free tin foil hats for all.

I don't see why my question is worth evasion. Staying quiet for nearly a month when Eurogamer already "broke" the story just doesn't make sense and I'd like to know why it happened this way. At no point was I trying to point fingers and I apologize if it read that way, I just want to know why the situation unfolded the way it did.

 

[Goon Boon]

Some more messages from Allistair:

Holy shit especially at

In the end, he bragged about how I can't get unemployment because I have a 1099 contract and

he can fire whoever he wants because his business is based in Florida, an at-will employment state.

Excellent timing of niero to /quit this thread.

 

[MYeager]

Okay, then the question becomes why there were obviously marching orders not to post anything regarding the matter at Destructoid's despite the truth already being posted at Eurogamer. Allistair was certainly involved at that point and the truth was already out, so that's at least three weeks the situation was known to Destructoid's editorial staff. Why should I believe that one more weekend would have made a difference?

Because it gives you time to run it past legal for liability and time to put such an article through editing parts which may conflict with whatever ethical guidelines have been established for the site. The difference is it isn't Allistair's website, and if they had a process to go through and he circumvented it, then they can choose to no longer work with him. I'm personally impressed they didn't run with it, as I'm sure there are websites that would have done so just because it would've generated hits, regardless of the liability or ethical issues surrounding it.

I empathize with Allistair for one wild and confusing situation, but if he did repeatedly ignored direct requests from the editor, then his termination makes sense.

 

[sonicmj1]

I don't see why my question is worth evasion. Staying quiet for nearly a month when Eurogamer already "broke" the story just doesn't make sense and I'd like to know why it happened this way. At no point was I trying to point fingers and I apologize if it read that way, I just want to know why the situation unfolded the way it did.

I think that question was already answered.

Just compare the story posted on Saturday on GamersWithoutBigotry to the raw material on Twitlonger (which was deleted) that I was so against posting on Tuesday.

Both contain the same information, but nobody's flipping cars at me over the latter. What was posted on Saturday had way more polish, it read better, an editor oversaw it before publishing it, it was balanced in that the fraud culprit is quoted, and is obviously free of liability. The Saturday piece was BASED on the Tuesday notes, and I love the other article.

Since the fraud stuff was reported four weeks before that there was no reason to rush into this. It would have still exposed all the facts and turned a lot of heads and made more of an impact and not rubbed anybody the wrong way. I'm oversimplifying what happened, but I think you'll get my drift.

 

[Risette]

We adopted a zero-tolerance firing policy for outing a gay/bi/transgender person without their written consent, even if the outing was not intended maliciously (ie: there's no more room for "he/she meant well" or any of that gray area). It is a very serious matter. Legal repercussions aside, it statistically puts them at high risk of murder or suicide.

Good to hear.

 

[CambriaRising]

Holy shit especially at

Excellent timing of niero to /quit this thread.

The funny thing is that after reading some of his posts in this thread, it is totally believable that he acted like that.

 

[StarCreator]

I think that question was already answered.

I missed that part, thanks. I'm still scratching my head over why it would take four weeks to hatch a story out of this, during which time the original report of why the Indiegogo campaign was shut down flew under everyone's radar and everyone was still under the assumption that Indiegogo had shut it down maliciously.

Because it gives you time to run it past legal for liability and time to put such an article through editing parts which may conflict with whatever ethical guidelines have been established for the site. The difference is it isn't Allistair's website, and if they had a process to go through and he circumvented it, then they can choose to no longer work with him. I'm personally impressed they didn't run with it, as I'm sure there are websites that would have done so just because it would've generated hits, regardless of the liability or ethical issues surrounding it.

I empathize with Allistair for one wild and confusing situation, but if he did repeatedly ignored direct requests from the editor, then his termination makes sense.

I can't help but feel that, at the very least, a note of why Indiegogo did what they did should have been reported more widely. They could have taken all the time they needed to write an expose post-mortem but -something- needed to be said to stop the Indiegogo witch hunt, during which time people were still ready and willing to donate to Chloe privately under false pretenses.

No one is questioning that Allistair disobeyed orders, but it would be irresponsible to not question why those orders were in place.

 

[kodt]

Okay, then the question becomes why there were obviously marching orders not to post anything regarding the matter at Destructoid's despite the truth already being posted at Eurogamer. Allistair was certainly involved at that point and the truth was already out, so that's at least three weeks the situation was known to Destructoid's editorial staff. Why should I believe that one more weekend would have made a difference?

Honestly dude have you read his posts at all? He said he wanted time to have the editor go over the story, take time to consider the legal implications, and add more polish to the story. He didn't want to story rushed as it was a big story. Why is this so hard to understand? Are you really so convinced that wanting a few day delay is some massive conspiracy theory?

 

[Lowlander2]

All of staff knows the truth. In weeks to come, they'll jump ship or stand by him and his lies. I don't really care.

Speaking of lies...

I remain divided, but I bowed out a while ago too.

 

[daycru]

Holy shit especially at

Excellent timing of niero to /quit this thread.

Sounds about right.

 

[Goon Boon]

Honestly dude have you read his posts at all? He said he wanted time to have the editor go over the story, take time to consider the legal implications, and add more polish to the story. He didn't want to story rushed as it was a big story. Why is this so hard to understand? Are you really so convinced that wanting a few day delay is some massive conspiracy theory?

If that was true, then I want to know where destructoid's excuse for writing on the scammy aspects of the millionaire mom kickstarter is.

They didn't report on that, why should I believe they actually had any intention of reporting on this? Destructoid is more concerned with image than integrity.

 

[StarCreator]

Honestly dude have you read his posts at all? He said he wanted time to have the editor go over the story, take time to consider the legal implications, and add more polish to the story. He didn't want to story rushed as it was a big story. Why is this so hard to understand? Are you really so convinced that wanting a few day delay is some massive conspiracy theory?

See my reply to the posts above yours. I don't mind if they needed more time for a post-mortem article but I just don't understand the complete radio silence. Staying silent had repercussions too.

 

[LycanXIII]

Some more messages from Allistair:

All of staff knows the truth. In weeks to come, they'll jump ship or stand by him and his lies. I don't really care.

Oh damn.

 

[Wario64]

Seems like there wasn't a 4th update to the Eurogamer article as of May 13th according to Google Cache, the 4th update appeared after Allistair starting making those tweets last week. So Eurogamer was probably holding back on info too. Allistair also believes Euro's feature was withdrawn when Chloe attempted a second suicide, but Chloe said in the roundtable posted earlier that they are still going to run the feature along with her confession

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...fe-saving-operation+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[remnant]

They don't read like that at all to me. I think there's a lot of people who are going to wilfully ignore his side in favour of the one which fits their preferred narrative. Par for the course when it comes to these sorts of issues.

Whats the preferred narrative? That they sat on a story for little reason?

 

[kodt]

If that was true, then I want to know where destructoid's excuse for writing on the scammy aspects of the millionaire mom kickstarter is.

They didn't report on that, why should I believe they actually had any intention of reporting on this? Destructoid is more concerned with image than integrity.

They did write about that story did they not?

See my reply to the posts above yours. I don't mind if they needed more time for a post-mortem article but I just don't understand the complete radio silence. Staying silent had repercussions too.

What repercussions? Wasn't the story already broken on reddit way before?

 

[GreatMightySymp]

They did write about that story did they not?

IIRC it a post-edit to the original "look at a 9 year old girl wanting to make her own RPG" article instead of a feature piece about the shadiness.

EDIT:

http://www.destructoid.com/nine-year-old-girl-kickstarting-game-development-249327.phtml
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Shinta/9-year-old-girl-rpg-kickstarter-a-pack-of-lies--249507.phtml

Yeah, it was an in-edit "follow-up" as the title didn't change and only reported on the stuff other people had dug up. It was the blog post that reported on the further details.

 

[Goon Boon]

They did write about that story did they not?

I believe that was a gaffer writing on the user pages, destructoid only reported on the "girl gets bullied by her brother part" and never followed up, which was worse than simply never reporting on the story at all.

Edit - Destructoid apparently did do a bit of a followup under the original article's page rather than a new one, but it failed to miss one of the most important aspects of it - the failed indiegogo campaigns including the phone one which was a literal scam (they were saying they were producing a custom phone case and selling it for 4x as much as they were buying them from amazon or a wholesaler).

 

[NervousXtian]

The Eurogamer thing was nothing from Eurogamer.. they posted the updated AFTER the fact.

The comments were the same stuff that got started on The Indie Stone and then to Reddit.

Niero, that doesn't prove your point at all that this was out there as the true story of the scam that was being ran.

I suggest people read the The Indie Stone forum and see the lengths that she went to fraud people and how she was willingly wanting to manipulate and take advantage of people.

http://theindiestone.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12310&start=120

and the reddit conversation:

http://www.reddit.com/s/http://www.reddit.com/s/http:/imgur.com/gallery/Uc9i2

If you can read through that stuff, and have any sympathy for her at all... I don't get it.

Lots of people go through lots of pain and suffering, and being transgender doesn't in one bit forgive anything that she did.

She was complicit in trying to defraud people, then tried to blackmail someone in the worst way possible by threatening suicide.

 

[MYeager]

I can't help but feel that, at the very least, a note of why Indiegogo did what they did should have been reported more widely. They could have taken all the time they needed to write an expose post-mortem but -something- needed to be said to stop the Indiegogo witch hunt, during which time people were still ready and willing to donate to Chloe privately under false pretenses.

No one is questioning that Allistair disobeyed orders, but it would be irresponsible to not question why those orders were in place.

There's no way to quickly explain why IGG did what they did without just parroting their official stance, that they found that there were problems with the story and decided to take the donation page down/refund the money.

Questioning the orders is fine, but they appear like common sense to me. There's a lot to this story and they wanted to take the time to assess liability, run it through editing, potentially get more information for other sources, before throwing any information out without the context a larger story would've given. There are a lot of sensitive issues in this, making sure it was airtight before publishing any information is the right choice.

 

[Delusibeta]

...did we just see someone Dyacking in this thread?

 

[NervousXtian]

Pretty shady to hold up an edited Eurogamer article as truth... The whole point of people saying info was held back is that the community figured out what was happening but didn't have nearly enough proof. A witch hunt was boiling over before we knew 100% from a good source what was happening, hence the comments on Eurogamer.

Also for Niero to imply that Destructoid article would have been like the gamersagainstbigotry article is disingenuous to say the least. That article only was made the way it was BECAUSE of what Allistar did and the circumstances around it.

Chloe had no need to do that if she wasn't outed for being a fraud.

 

[kodt]

I believe that was a gaffer writing on the user pages, destructoid only reported on the "girl gets bullied by her brother part" and never followed up, which was worse than simply never reporting on the story at all.

Edit - Destructoid apparently did do a bit of a followup under the original article's page rather than a new one, but it failed to miss one of the most important aspects of it - the failed indiegogo campaigns including the phone one which was a literal scam (they were saying they were producing a custom phone case and selling it for 4x as much as they were buying them from amazon or a wholesaler).

Ah, still that really had nothing to do with the games industry as the mom was not a game industry figure, and Chloe is (although very minor). I don't think they have a responsibility to report on every shady kickstarter that is remotely related to games.

Besides I didn't even think that one was a scam. Millionares and even billionaires have every right to kickstart sending their daughter to Walgreens to buy a pack of gum if they want (and KS allows it). If people are dumb enough to fund it, its on them.

Also, it was never proven she was a millionaire, just that she owned a business worth millions. That does not mean she has millions sitting in the bank ready to be spent. All of her worth might have been tied up in the business.

 

[LycanXIII]

Why couldn't Allistar post the short thing he did, and then Dtoid run the "polished" article they wanted?