ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Wait, what? He really was fired? I thought it came out that it was only a suspension? Didn't Allistair say in an interview that "to clarify, I still have my job"?
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Destructoid writer let go over including relevant information in a story?
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
he was suspended pending review
rocketknight
Member
Scamming is bad. Outing people is bad, too. Nobody deserves to be scammed and nobody deserves to be outed. Don't do either of those things.
EDIT: Screw it. Let's just say I know what you're talking about with your last post, that I have been there, and that I feel that anyone here defending the scammer really must not have a goddamn clue what it's like to deal with someone who's threatening suicide. It is one of the most emotionally cruel, gutwrenching, heartbreaking, experiences one can ever have.
rocketknight
Member
It's pretty emotional, gut-wrenching and heartbreaking for the person attempting suicide, too. What did she want him to do? Not out her as trans? That's something he shouldn't have done anyway, so it's not a super unreasonable request. There were ways to reveal the fraud without doing that, several of which were mentioned in the last thread.
According to the guy who deleted his post on the advice of his lawyer, Allistair Pinsof has been terminated as of May 20.
Outing somebody's a real asshole thing to do, but I'm inclined to say that there are a few circumstances in which it's not an egregious act, and that this particular instance qualifies.
mullet2000
Member
If the situation had to with anything other than trying to use the money on a sex-exchange surgery I'd be right there with you, believe me.
But, in situations involving fraud it's completely standard to say where the money was going. I don't really see why an exception for a completely common practice should be made because the woman happened to be trans. Fraud cases have brought out terrible secrets for the individuals committing and attempting to commit fraud in the past, and the same is true here. I don't see why the secret being that it was for a sex change operation should change he fact that people report on it or not.
When you attempt to commit fraud you're giving up your secrets that relate to that act of fraud. It's very unfortunate, and i'm sure it's been a hell of an emotional roller coaster for this woman, but that's what happens.
Anyway, I'm sure what I just said has been said many times already. All this said, a lot of the guy's tweets were quite inappropriate. Both of them did wrong but reporting on what happened was not the wrong thing to do. Exceptions shouldn't be made just because this woman is transexual when the norm is to report on where the fraudulent funds were going. That doesn't mean that the whole situation isn't unfortunate or that I'm some cold hearted monster toward this woman - she clearly has had a rough time. But she committed a crime here.
yes he was fired after the review
In the end, it was that rarest of breeds: an unfavorable review from a video game website.
mullet2000
Member
Huh. Interesting.
Destructoid lawyering up makes sense now. Unfortunately for them clicking delete doesn't make stuff disappear from the internet.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Burn 'em down, Allistair.
faceless007
Member
"Chloe has been in contact with me regarding her side of the story. She has confessed to me that the claims she made in the campaign were dishonest and based on false pretenses, and she lied about the exact nature of what she planned to use the funds for. Those who planned to donate money toward her would have been doing so under misinformation. Out of concern for her safety/privacy/ongoing health concerns I cannot elaborate further, but we are preparing a fuller story to run in the near future with more details."
I can't see any reason why it wouldn't have been preferable for everyone involved to not just run something like that instead for the few days or so until they finished the original planned piece and checked on Chloe's status.
Hindsight yadda yadda.
I can't see any reason why it wouldn't have been preferable for everyone involved to not just run something like that instead for the few days or so until they finished the original planned piece and checked on Chloe's status.
Hindsight yadda yadda.
So he was fired on Friday? There was no review? What a load.
That's Niero. Founder of Destructoid and the other ModernMethod sites.
Edit: He's updated his Twitter bio to say "Previously Features Editor at Destructoid; employed by Flixist, The Escapist, and The Daily Texan."
Flixist is one of those ModernMethod sites. So while Dtoid fires him, the other keeps him. Makes sense.
That's Niero. Founder of Destructoid and the other ModernMethod sites.
Edit: He's updated his Twitter bio to say "Previously Features Editor at Destructoid; employed by Flixist, The Escapist, and The Daily Texan."
Flixist is one of those ModernMethod sites. So while Dtoid fires him, the other keeps him. Makes sense.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Disgraceful that he got fired, I never visited the site but I won't do on principal now and I won't be watching the Dtoid show on Rev3 anymore.
PenaltyMan
Member
Telling the truth is a terminable offense now? How worthless is vidya game journalism now? IGN would only give this atrocity of justice 9/10
baphomet
Member
faceless007
Member
Well, that does put his firing in a rather different context. Does anyone know what "false statements" he might be referring to? I'm guessing they were public or libel wouldn't be much of a concern. (Then again, reposting them would defeat the purpose of referring to them obliquely, I suppose.)
I do hope he lands on his feet.
Wait what? Is he not a journalist?
Who exactly determines how long he should have 'waited'?
Who exactly determines what constitutes 'urgent' reporting and what doesn't? What is the actual threshold here? How many hours? Days?
This feels like weak weak reaching because it seems he didn't actually do anything wrong by reporting it. His responsibility here would have been to tell the situation honestly. The timing is the timing. This idea that there is some random subjective time period that would make reporting it 'okay' rubs me wrong.
This doesn't have anything to do with journalism, fraud, or transgender. It really doesn't. Furthermore, not a single person at my company will say that Allistair is a bad journalist.
My company is also not in any legal trouble regarding the transgender stuff. I'm holding my tongue for other legal reasons.
That said:
http://forum.destructoid.com/showthread.php?29659-Trans-Issue/page5
Do you really think we'd randomly fire a writer for "doing their job"? Is "doing your job" not also equal to "listening to your boss" ?
Do you really think we want to fire a trained and talented writer right before E3?
Do you really think Destructoid is afraid of controversy? C'mon.
There's so much more that I'd really love to say, but I think I've said more than enough.
Go watch the first 15 minutes of Star Trek 2. It's magically relevant.
My company is also not in any legal trouble regarding the transgender stuff. I'm holding my tongue for other legal reasons.
That said:
http://forum.destructoid.com/showthread.php?29659-Trans-Issue/page5
Do you really think we'd randomly fire a writer for "doing their job"? Is "doing your job" not also equal to "listening to your boss" ?
Do you really think we want to fire a trained and talented writer right before E3?
Do you really think Destructoid is afraid of controversy? C'mon.
There's so much more that I'd really love to say, but I think I've said more than enough.
Go watch the first 15 minutes of Star Trek 2. It's magically relevant.
The language in his tweets struck as spiteful. It's great if Chloe doesn't think so.
Oh come on! Can we stop playing this game?
It's fucking farcical to pretend that we have any precise insight into what exactly Chloe was willing to commit suicide over. This entire idea that "oh yeah, if you just revealed the fraud without outing her, it would've been all rainbows and sunshine" is such utter bullshit. She might've tried to commit suicide anyways - exactly the reason why Allistair and others kept quiet altogether. If you guys truly understand the desperation Chloe was in, you should understand that anything short of getting the sexual reassignment surgery would set her off.
No, you had every right to fire an employee that doesn't listen to your direct orders. But given the information we have (and a tenuous "there's more to it than you think" won't change any minds), you gave him bad orders, and he went with his conscience. Until we hear information otherwise, you and your site are the ones that should be held to the fire. If legal reasons are keeping you from doing so, that sucks, but if the PR is that important to you, you can always disregard your lawyer's advice.
baphomet
Member
So were you, or were you not, willing to let the scam on innocent people continue until you decided was time to tell them the truth?
And then to fire the person who actually informed the public what was actually happening, wether you wanted to make money off the story or not, is a crock of shit.
CambriaRising
Member
"Please understand."
There is no way you guys look like the good guy in all of this, sorry. You made a shit call and tried to keep the guy quiet about it afterward. Sure, you can fire him for disobeying orders as is your right. But your site's integrity is now damaged. Hope it was worth it.
So he was fired because he wanted to run the story and you felt the need to bury it and hide evidence of the scam?
I have shame & when possible I help out with donating even though I have real life shit, am 28 with a fucked spine, failed back surgery nerve damage and use 4 types of prescribed pain medication, live and likely will remain in pain. Due to the severity of nerve damage S1 and scar tissue surrounding it, it's possible I'll lose my right leg eventually. Returning to work soon or down the track is borderline fantasy.
Anyway, at no point did I consider making up pure lies and attempt to defraud people for my benefit. There are others literally battling every moment of the day in physical agony which over time becomes mentally exhausting along with their friends & family watching them suffer and 'feeling' it too.
Seems the criticism of a transgender persons low life fraud isn't allowed. They can do no wrong even when exploiting cancer and terminal illness. As long as its for SRS then it's ok? Con-artist = bad person. Transgender Con-artist = brave hero
People have enough skepticism/reluctance with charities due to fraud and concern over the amount being allocated to those in need vs the company profiting.
Last charity I donated to raised over 30k for a place where little kids with terminal illnesses come to spend their last days with their family. So hearing this person act in a scumly manner imo pissed me off a lil yeah. Then again maybe she was more deserving due to her struggle? lol give me a break
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Nah, he shouldn't have been fired. Boycott Destructoid!!!!!1
jk, kinda
Velcro Fly
Member
Will never go to destructoid again and will actively encourage others to do the same.
I think that is the only thing I can post here and still be within the rules of this website.
I think that is the only thing I can post here and still be within the rules of this website.
Please elaborate.
Velcro Fly
Member
My mother always told me if I don't have anything nice to say that I shouldn't say anything. Pretty much the same way here. I just won't patronize destructoid with my clicks. That's all.
This newfound concern about privacy is fucking rich coming from you, Allistair.
Atraveller
Banned
The only thing Allistair did wrong is not calling in the authority to seek help, instead he tried to play psychiatrist. Also you can't just say: "This is a scam, and I'm not telling you why.", even if you did, people will still find out on their own.
That's rough, man. Hopefully your post causes a few people rethink some of the crazy and irresponsible shit they've been throwing around in this thread.
Why are some of you under the impression that we would have never, ever published this story!!?
Remember, we had a writer ***WORKING*** on the story. I knew it was a good one worth chasing. We approved a guy to sink countless hours into this. However, the story (now famously) went up in an undesirable state, and things quickly spiraled out of control from there. Did you read the amazing piece that later went up on GamersAgainstBigotry.org? Compare the Saturday piece to what went up Tuesday and you tell me which is better. It could have waited.
I could have prevented all of this AND still published it AND not had to fire anyone AND not be here explaining how a newsroom process works.
I don't expect anyone to sympathize with a publisher's problems, but put yourself in my shoes. When you hire bunch of gutsy hot-blooded writers to chase stories like this you begin to develop processes they don't trip over and bruise each other (or themselves, in this case).
If you're suggesting that it's OK to pull the cowboy stunt of blind-sighting your managing editor you would not last a day in this business.
Why wouldn't we want to publish information about fraud? Shouldn't you also be saying that "we'd be doing it for pageview clicks derp" etc? Its kind of nice to not hear that for a change, but for once I kinda wish you did.
Look, if you want to do damage control, you gotta give us more than "there's more to it than that, but I can't say." Tell us: what was there to gain by delaying the story? Why did you tell him to hold off? And when people were publicly attacking him, why did you feel compelled to order him take the character assassination without being able to defend himself?
I'm willing to listen; I've worked in newsrooms. But you can't be vindicated by just saying, "That's how the business works." Tell us why the calls you made weren't terrible calls, and why his disregard of those decisions was egregious enough for a firing. Everyone makes employment mistakes sometimes, and most aren't fire-worthy. Tell us why the calls you made were not so terrible that disregarding them is the only thing a reasonable person would do, and why his disregard of those calls was fire-worthy.
If you can't tell us, we get that, but you can't expect us to change our minds. If you're worried about your site being boycotted, better ignore the lawyer advice and open up.
GoddyofAus
Banned
Still no comment from Jim Sterling about this? That's a shame.
RobotRocker
Member
To be honest, you have been doing it right. Holding a story till it's watertight and you've gone through it with your news editors and your legal is extremely good practice that should be encouraged. The story wasn't going away and there was no time frame where it would have disappeared in the last while. It was good and responsible editorial practice (For a change in this industry). You shouldn't really get mad and keep doing what you are doing because despite the reaction, You were right about your editorial decisions and shouldn't get cut up about it.
It's just that the floodgates were opened up, people are convinced of guilt on the word of a single person (And not a court of law) and want their pound of flesh now. So people so damn set on a witch burning aren't going to exactly listen when they are too busy choosing the stake they want.
Not really. Well yeah it's life changing/ruining but luckily in Australia so no 3rd world issues. Lou gehrig/locked-in syndrome, advanced cancers, dimentia, 3rd world atrocities in lacking the most basic medical necessities etc is rough.
Didn't post it in a sympathy way, theres TONNES of people have real shit & life can be hard but it's the simplest thing as a person you don't go defrauding people and manipulating others by exploiting peoples good intentions over bullshit terminal illnesses.
Hell, one quote from one dev is "time is of the essence here people, donating all income next 2 months" of his indy game releasing....
The urge to want to help others save her life by simply throwing a small-moderate amount of cash at it seemed like the obvious thing to do, & job well done.. Only 1 thing, errrrrrrr you've been played !
She knew exactly what she was doing. Preying on others emotions which led to $$$$$$ for herself.
Just like that other scammer that miracuously walked. Scum bag
THANK YOU. That's 10000000% it.
scytheavatar
Member
Am I the only one who though that the whole "I have a metal in my body due to a car accident and is getting poisoned because of it" sounds like a plot from Hollywood the moment I heard it? I have a hard time understanding how anyone can sympathize with Allistair, the whole incident wouldn't have happened had he taken the time and effort to verify the story before writing about it. He has failed his job as a journalist and deserved to be sacked from the moment he helped to propagate the scam. Not only that by waiting for so long to reveal the truth he is more or less an accomplice in the fraud. If Chloe Sagal deserves to go to jail for her fraud then Allistair should be accompanying her too for not reporting her to the police ASAP.
This incident has been a massive failure by everyone involved, and Indie Go Go is absolutely right to cancel the fundraising because of it turning into a charity project. Even if the story is true why the heck should people donate to the project rather than to her directly?
This incident has been a massive failure by everyone involved, and Indie Go Go is absolutely right to cancel the fundraising because of it turning into a charity project. Even if the story is true why the heck should people donate to the project rather than to her directly?
Allistair did report the fraud to IndieGogo immediately on April 9. It was actually Chloe that gave him the contact there after he exposed her.
Not shocked that he got fired, it was clear that destructoid was going to throw the guy to the wolves in a bid to come out of this as not hating anyone to save themselves some PR grief. Can't say I really visited the site much before so not like they're going to lose much of anything at all, nothing really but I certainly don't plan to visit the place now and hold it in regard lower than Kotaku.
And that's low.
And that's low.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Can someone give me a summary of updates please? The fired journalist is suing I gather?
What PR grief are you talking about? Chloe PARDONED the guy. You've read nothing.
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