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PA Report - The Xbox One will kill used games, that's good

I just think this is so wrong. Used games are a critical source of consumer liquidity, and they liquidity is often used to purchase NEW games.

I'm about ready for every publisher to reap what they've sown with this broken AAA model. They'll learn.

Exactly. The used market is very important in any industry. I sell my games in order to get new ones at times. If the game doesn't have replay value, I'm not going to keep it. I haven't payed full price on a COD game since MW1. Because I always get rid of the previous on to get the new one.
 

megalowho

Member
Can't wait for benevolent publishers and platform holders to be so overwhelmed with the influx in cash flow from no pirates/used games in their closed infrastructure that they'll be itching to pass the savings along to us. What a grand experiment it will be!
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
If they had an incentive to do so.

Yep, Microsoft has sure shown itself to be willing to lower prices, and be a general good business from a consumer perspective.....

Limiting control of 'used-sales' to a single company will in no way shape or form an incentive for MS to lower prices on DD goods. If anything, they'll be able to keep them at higher prices longer due to lack of available competition.
 

QaaQer

Member
That's another thing. Many proponents of XBone are claiming that only little kids are trading and lending games, so who gives a shit? Well, those kids are the next generation of gamers/consumers. If I hadn't been loaned games as a kid, I wouldn't be spending thousands of dollars per year on brand new games and equipment now.

this cannot be emphasized enough.
 

Marleyman

Banned
On the other hand, you lend a game to a friend say for a week, and he beats it, he has no incentive to go and purchase the game for himself. He has already enjoyed the benefits of the game for free, why would he then go out and buy it. Some will, but most will not.

Any game I borrowed from a friend that got beaten was never then purchased.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
People will cry, but the market pricing will correct itself to reflect the inability of people to steal games.

Do you guys even read what you're typing? Listen to how ludicrous that sounds. If the PS4 has zero restrictions on used games, and if games maintain the $60 average price point, are you telling me Microsoft will lower their games down to $40-50 because they're not being pirated?

Forget consumers, how does that make any kind of business sense whatsoever?
 
Exactly. The used market is very important in any industry. I sell my games in order to get new ones at times. If the game doesn't have replay value, I'm not going to keep it. I haven't payed full price on a COD game since MW1. Because I always get rid of the previous on to get the new one.

OK, so what if Microsoft said you could trade in your license for $15 credit towards the next COD game? Because that's the sort of thing the article is proposing.
 

Drek

Member
Nice to see the #1 "news" outlet for corporate starfuckers chiming in, once again proving that PA and all their spawn are too busy sliding talking points past their gag reflex to actually speak intelligently about the real problems in the industry.


They couldn't have contributed to it?
What kind of halfwit logic is this?

You could buy used on PS2/Xbox/GC. THQ didn't die then.

You could buy used on PS1/Saturn/N64. THQ didn't die then.

Used games haven't hurt the industry. They lower the point of entry and give greater liquidity to the market. The AAA $50M blockbuster that only lasts 8 hours is what kills a company. Homefront has more blood on it's hands than every used game sale combined for why THQ died.

Creative, cost controlled game design still works. Aping Hollywood blockbusters with new unproven IPs is a quick way to bankrupt a company. That simple.
 

The Crimson Kid

what are you waiting for
So how big of an impact has piracy really had on consoles, which are all closed systems? Piracy has always been a huge factor on the open PC platform, but is the problem really so widespread and detrimental to publishers on consoles to justify locking down software to this extent?

The 360 has been hacked to use pirated software for years, but that requires hardware modification to make it work, and clearly the 360 has still seen massive sales success on all fronts. Piracy on PS3 doesn't seem to be nearly as widespread as on 360, despite several big scares that could've opened the floodgates. The 3DS might start seeing piracy issues soon and the Vita is still secure.

The only systems that have had huge drops in support from publishers due to piracy that I know of are the Dreamcast and the PSP, and both of those cases seem to be because there was no advanced hardware mods required and all you had to do was copy some files onto a memory stick or a CD. Once these easy modes of piracy became common, publisher support dropped like a stone. And I don't forget the R4 for the DS, but that system was still hugely successful.

It seems to me that console manufacturers have gotten much better at quickly being able to combat advances in pirating their consoles through firmware updates, and with the Xbox One always being online, it would be trivial for MS to push such updates to every console as often as they wanted to.

It seems to me that due to the always-online nature of the Xbox One, piracy could easily be dealt with through constant small updates to combat any progress made by hackers. I don't see how an account-based game DRM solution is necessary on a closed platform that has the unavoidable ability to get constant patches from Microsoft.

As for used games, I don't buy them at all, but there are plenty of good people that would affect, and there is plenty of data out there showing that used game sales help to spur on new games sales quite a bit.

I find it extremely concerning that I cannot lend a physical copy of a game I bought to a friend for them to try it out to see if they want to buy it. Among my local gaming friend group, I can count well over a dozen purchases of new games this generation that wouldn't have occurred if they hadn't been lent the game to try it for themselves.

Also, a publisher wouldn't have to worry about lending a game to someone else so they can beat it in a few days if their games were more richly replayable and had more content in them. I'm sure that publishers that shit out uninspired 4-6 hour linear shooters would like to stop game lending while Bethesda doesn't care much at all if someone lends their copy of Skyrim or Fallout to a friend for a while.

Let me get this straight:

You guys prefer an environment where we can pay $60 for a new game, and get back $15 for it when we sell it 6 months or a year later, so that someone else can buy it for $40 and the publisher gets nothing while GameStop takes an easy $25?

What if someone told you you could buy new games digitally at your convenience upon release for $60, and then whenever you wanted you could trade it back in for 25% of the price of the new game? And that GameStop wouldn't be able to siphon off profits so easily anymore? That publishers would be paid for every game purchased?

Why is everyone so angry when we don't know how the proposed system works yet? Because if it worked like what I just said, that would be a good deal for everyone except GameStop.

You're making more unreasonable presumptions about all of this than the people you are addressing are.

The right to access and take advantage of a second hand market.

And to lend a physical copy of an entertainment product to a friend, which is how every other successful delivery form of media has worked forever.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
I very much doubt any amount of internet kerfuffle is going to influence a KEY platform decision like this, at this point.

For a while now publishers have been complaining that used-game sales, game rentals and piracy have been significantly hurting their bottom line. We can debate it all we want (one pirated copy ≠ one sold copy!) but their data is telling them otherwise. I have a feeling Microsoft is just giving publishers what they want with this draconian DRM system.

So they're going to do this. And here's the thing: If sales data in any way validates this approach, everyone is going to copy them.
 

Salaadin

Member
Since we seem to have to go over this in every used game thread,

usedo6up7.png

LOL @ Kirby.

Redbox isnt there either. I know a few people who use that.

It needs to be made clear, if all the studio closings and constant lay-offs haven't made this explicit: The current economics of game development and sales are unsustainable. Games cost more to make, piracy is an issue, used-games are pushed over new, and players say the $60 cost is too high. Microsoft's initiatives with the Xbox One may solve many of these issues, even if we grumble about it. These changes ultimately make the industry healthier.

So its either fuck the devs or fuck the userbase?
 
On the other hand, you lend a game to a friend say for a week, and he beats it, he has no incentive to go and purchase the game for himself. He has already enjoyed the benefits of the game for free, why would he then go out and buy it. Some will, but most will not.

Yes, this is how all entertainment works.

I pay $60 for a game. That covers the lifetime of said piece of entertainment, regardless of ownership. The game doesn't magically become worth $120 because I let a friend play it.

Any game I borrowed from a friend that got beaten was never then purchased.

Seems like that was a fault of the game for not getting you to want to play it again.
 
The difference, in my eyes anyway, is that if you lend your car to your buddy and he really wants after giving it back it then he has to buy one.

On the other hand, you lend a game to a friend say for a week, and he beats it, he has no incentive to go and purchase the game for himself. He has already enjoyed the benefits of the game for free, why would he then go out and buy it. Some will, but most will not.

In the end, you believe one way, I believe another. I don't hate on you or anyone else for seeing it that way. If you feel that strongly about it, nothing I say is going to convince you, and vice versa. I enjoy discussion with or without changing someone's opinion. :)

If your buddy only needed the car to travel to Toledo and back, then no longer needs it, how is that any different than playing through a video game to completion? Similarly, how is it any different than loaning out a Blu-ray movie?

If you want to own something permanently, then you need to pay for it, yes. But if you get all you need out of it from borrowing, then what's the problem? Why should games be any different than anything else?
 

jay

Member
Can't wait for benevolent publishers and platform holders to be so overwhelmed with the influx in cash flow from no pirates/used games in their closed infrastructure that they'll be itching to pass the savings along to us. What a grand experiment it will be!

It's called trickle down and it always works.
 

QaaQer

Member
If they lower prices on games, stop nickel and diming to make a buck and bring out more games is that so bad? Nobody knows, but if they did these things I would support it. If they dicked us over and just kept raking profits then yeah, fuck them.

the point of business, at the end of the day, is to maximize profit. that is all. I see no reason why nickel and diming would stop just because used games ceased to exist.
 
The writer seems to believe that any new profits generated from a lack of used game sales will then be given right back to the consumers. That's awfully optimistic.
 

Cheech

Member
Do you guys even read what you're typing? Listen to how ludicrous that sounds. If the PS4 has zero restrictions on used games, and if games maintain the $60 average price point, are you telling me Microsoft will lower their games down to $40-50 because they're not being pirated?

Forget consumers, how does that make any kind of business sense whatsoever?

Well, if that happens and people care about this as much as you think, people will run out and buy PS4s. Microsoft will be forced to abandon the Steam model due to the lack of sales and interest in the console.

The market will correct itself. However, common sense dictates that's not going to happen. Just like how Xbox Live continues to make tons of money for Microsoft, even though the PC and PS3 charge nothing.

People will always pay for what they view as a superior product and a superior experience.
 

Biker19

Banned
Or, maybe just people who don't research products and just buy things because its part of a popular brand.

That's no problem, many retailers like Gamestop will heavily promote PS4 over Xbox One. Not even Microsoft's million/billion dollar advertising will work for them this time.
 
You're making more unreasonable presumptions about all of this than the people you are addressing are.

How is that anymore unreasonable than the people that are basically making shit up about something that we don't know the whole picture on? This could be just as valid as any of the other so-called "truths" that have been spouted the last couple days. Everyone is in an uproar about policies that we know next to NOTHING about.

Everyone just needs to calm down is all I would say. Blood pressure for some of these folks are probably at unhealthy levels. lol
 

Marleyman

Banned
Seems like that was a fault of the game for not getting you to want to play it again.

Always an excuse. I played a game I didn't pay for, beat it and didn't want to play it again...all for free. It happens for a bunch of game I play.

Bottom line for me is that I don't agree this is very consumer friendly but I do understand they have their numbers telling them this is hurting their business. Not condoning it; just trying to say I get where they are coming from. Now, if they don't pass the buck back to us, if this becomes a reality, then the pitchforks should go out.
 
BAHAHA

this thing is going to be cracked after a couple of months, and the pirates won't have to deal with the online checks/used games policy at all.

You´re being generous. Due to the PC like design, i expect to be hacked on the first week, and bypassing those restrictions is a huge incentive for the hackers to go at it.

The more you try to force those anti consumer "features", the more you are encoraging piracy/hacks/mods.
 

jay

Member
Always an excuse. I played a game I didn't pay for, beat it and didn't want to play it again...all for free. It happens for a bunch of game I play.

Do you send checks to music publishers after you accidentally hear a song in the grocery store?
 

Goldmund

Member
I've been reading Kuchera's Twitter lately, and he gives the impression of a lunatic sect leader. It's not that his opinions are insane, it's the way he portrays them, his wording, how he reacts to opposing stances. Really, really frightening stuff.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
Always an excuse. I played a game I didn't pay for, beat it and didn't want to play it again...all for free. It happens for a bunch of game I play.
That's not an excuse. The game wasn't good enough for you to buy -- that's the developers fault for making a game that wasn't worth buying.
 
Always an excuse. I played a game I didn't pay for, beat it and didn't want to play it again...all for free. It happens for a bunch of game I play.

It's not an excuse, this is the system we've had in place since the book was invented hundreds of years ago. Suddenly we have to change it because the bean counters at video game companies are idiots?

EDIT: Fine whatever.
 
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