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[Knux-Future]

There will be DRM on the PS4. There is DRM on the PS3. Sony probably isn't going backwards on this. So if their actual plan is to just leave it up to the Pubs...which is what they said before. That maybe why they haven't said shit

I didn't expect MS to drop the bomb until E3 either so who knows. we have 4 days left. Sony hasn't cancelled their Q&A yet so your answers will be there..if not then get mad. If Sony has a shit system like MS..then get mad.

it's rather simple

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Being a little optimistic here but they did say they were looking into loaning and renting games, so that stuff could become available later, right?

I can't imagine Microsoft alienating companies like GameFly and Redbox for long.

This is how I would have done it if I were in charge. Go the UltraVoilet route.

Playing games:
Using disc to play games: No restrictions whatsoever. Just pop in and play.

Install disc-based game to the harddrive (requires an active internet connection. A digital copy is then registered to the account that installed it.)

Keep disc inserted:
Game plays off the harddrive, uses disc for authentication. Can play offline anytime, if the game supports it (You wouldn't be able to play Destiny, for example).

Remove disc:
Play your digital copy anywhere. Requires periodic online check-in, say 72 hours (24 hours is way too short). You'd need to be online anyway to download your digital copy.

Purchase digital copy from the marketplace:
Can play on your home machine anytime, Playing the game elsewhere requires periodic check-in.

To me, that makes the most sense.

For trade-ins, I'd make it so whenever a new profile installs the game, it reassigns the license. That way lending is still possible.

If Sony is doing something with preowned games, I hope they do this. Microsoft's current plan is over complicated.

I'm still getting an Xbox One, but this DRM stuff makes me worried about the future. I could not care less about used games, but I'm horrified at the thought of being locked out of my own library of games.

I mean, why would a company with the collective braintrust the scale of Microsoft's not have come up with something this simple and logical?

Is it...too much like right?

 

[Morokh]

•Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

So no re-sell of digital copies.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Best case scenario is, it's a matter of timing. Sony's press conference is the last of Monday, so basically the last big event journalists have before going into E3 itself the next day. If their DRM stance is (and this is best case scenario) identical to what we now have, journalists--and by proxy the people who read their articles--go into the rest of E3 with this wonderful post-coital "after glow" of "Sony, you saved us! Yaaay!" and they ride that tide of good will for the next three days and watch the pre-order counts go up.

Worst case scenario, they still say nothing because their DRM stance is more or less identical, wait for all the torches, pitchforks and lynchings to be exhausted on Microsoft, and when they finally make their announcement, the masses will be too tired and defeated to do much more than grumble about it, since all their energy has been spent.

Sadly I think the worst case (or something close to it) is most likely, and they're just keeping quiet and letting MS get the worst of the shitstorm since their info got public first.

 

[Pennywise]

That's still giving MS a chance to bounce back some first though.

Besides, the first rule of PR is you never sit on good news. If they had good news on this they'd be shouting it from rooftops as the poster above said.

Their system may not be quite as bad as MS's--maybe it's optional disc based DRM publishers can use and thus doesn't require internet access or something. But I'd be shocked if they said no drm, no used game restrictions whatsoever at E3.

Pleasantly shocked for sure, and would preorder a PS4 ASAP to support them if that did happen. But I just don't see it.

Well, we've got no indicators to point into a definite situation though.
Microsoft on the other hand had enough indicators :X

 

[corrosivefrost]

Great, so when they announce something similar wouldn't you have wanted to know that months ago? I know I sure as fuck would have.

As long as Sony doesn't hide the system and then spring it on people after purchase, I really don't care.

If I wanted and Xbone and now I don't due to this, maybe I want a PS4. But if or when Sony comes out with similar news/policies, I can always change my mind again.

With that said, I'm sure Sony will clear up a lot of things at E3. We haven't even seen the actual PS4 console yet, have we?

There will be DRM on the PS4. There is DRM on the PS3. Sony probably isn't going backwards on this. So if their actual plan is to just leave it up to the Pubs...which is what they said before. That maybe why they haven't said shit

I didn't expect MS to drop the bomb until E3 either so who knows. we have 4 days left. Sony hasn't cancelled their Q&A yet so your answers will be there..if not then get mad. If Sony has a shit system like MS..then get mad.

it's rather simple

Yeah, there's DRM on the PS3 -- there's odd bits of publisher controlled stuff for digital content like the evil as fuck Capcom "you need to be online to start this game" DRM. Gameshare limits, etc.
However, there's nothing on the PS3 that governs disc based games any differently than it's always been, to my knowledge. You have the disc, it's in the drive, you can boot the game.
The problem here stems from Microsoft's desire to market the cloud -- they're basically using their physical copies as a one time data transfer much like old PC games. It all stems from their "we can't let you have a physical installer for digital content without having a way to control licensing to stem piracy". If the PS4 doesn't have a similar system where all retail games are installed on your system and played without the disc (and accessible on other consoles via your account) then the likelihood of a similar system for DRM becomes smaller.

 

[Drek]

Hasn't it been general speculation that Sony is leaving it up to third parties to decide (like MS)? Plus we do know that Sony does not require you to connect your PS4 to the internet at all to play it.

EDIT: I am not saying I wouldn't like to know for a fact, but that their conference is only days away and we will know more than. MS just took the first leap off a ledge, let's see if Sony follows.

Nothing like MS.

Microsoft has a 24 hour required online check and institutes DRM out of the gate and publishers have to OPT OUT. They are providing all the tools, publishers just need to agree to use them.

So far all we know is that Sony says their system doesn't require the internet ever and that online will be left up to publishers. If each pub has to handle their own always online game check it will not be universal, many will forgo it entirely, and the rest can be easily avoided by consumers who don't want to be taken advantage of. A non-universal system is far weaker and could collapse in short order if sales suffer from it.

 

[Cth]

So what scenarios could be developed for the rental market?

Special discs that have a limited number of installs? Special codes that need to be activated online for the rental period? With the 24 hr check in place games would deactivate anyways if they dont check in.

Basically, my issue is rentals. I buy a lot of games, but being able to rent them with promo codes and half off rentals at the local chain helps me to make additional purchasing decisions.

I guess what I'm asking is what's taking so long for them to out forth a rental decision? Waiting to see reaction to the policy? Technical?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Their system may not be quite as bad as MS's--maybe it's optional disc based DRM publishers can use and thus doesn't require internet access or something. But I'd be shocked if they said no drm, no used game restrictions whatsoever at E3.

Pleasantly shocked for sure, and would preorder a PS4 ASAP to support them if that did happen. But I just don't see it.

Publishers being able to implement DRM isn't anything new. If they had really wanted to they could have extended the online pass systems to encompass the entire games this generation.

It's how the systems are set up that has changed with Microsoft, and may change, but hopefully won't with Sony.

That is, a system-wide tying of a physical retail purchase to an account or console, and the consequent periodic online-checks - resulting in a default position that every game cannot be on-sold/is DRM'd regardless of the publisher, who can then choose to opt out of this DRM by allowing trade at certain retailers.

If Sony can keep the status quo with regard to physical retail discs - and not tie them to accounts or systems - at a system-wide level then that will be an ocean of difference in itself; even if they have a system in place that publishers could utilize at their own volition (and risk of backlash).

It's the difference between opt-in and opt-out, as I think others may have pointed out.

 

[Shoeless]

Sadly I think the worst case (or something close to it) is most likely, and they're just keeping quiet and letting MS get the worst of the shitstorm since their info got public first.

I find it ironic that as more and more time passes, I look back on the Online Pass with fond nostalgia. In retrospect, it doesn't seem so bad any more, and will be missed.

 

[quest]

If the family sharing is done correctly (example: i should be able to share with my brother who lives in a different state) then i'm totally cool with these policies. The buying/selling of used games doesn't really concern or apply to me.

This is for house holds plain and simple not people across the country cheating the system. Really all this effort to block used games but let people team up to buy less copies? It will involve everyone on the same account and only 1 person can play a game at a time. They will use location to see if you are cheating the system you can count on it.

 

[Tripolygon]

To the people saying "its not that bad" or "not as bad as i thought" or "this is a good thing"

Just to be clear this has nothing to do with Sony or Microsoft, it is him talking about the current privacy and security issues going on. I posted it because it fits well with what is going on in this thread. People easily giving up their consumer rights because of a vague promise of security; "Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners".

 

[RepairmanJack]

If the family sharing is done correctly (example: i should be able to share with my brother who lives in a different state) then i'm totally cool with these policies. The buying/selling of used games doesn't really concern or apply to me.

I'd say there is absolutely zero chance of this.

 

[leadbelly]

Microsoft made a good point about using cellular connections when broadband is not available. Granted I'm thinking from a US perspective but pretty much every smartphone has tethering/wifi hotspot capabilities these days. They could be used for the check required every 24 hours.

You may have a smart phone and still not be able to use the tethering functionality. Having a lot of people tethering can put stress on a network. Some networks only enable it if you pay them an extra fee, or block it completely.

Cross-posting from the Pachter thread; on further reflection regardless of Microsoft trying to put this onus on third parties, the system they have delivered by default prevents used games at a system level. It actually requires active effort by publishers to "enable" used games.

Well, clearly the intention is to destroy the used games market. They understand there is going to be a lot backlash over it, so that is why the 'option' to sell used games is there.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

So what scenarios could be developed for the rental market?

Special discs that have a limited number of installs? Special codes that need to be activated online for the rental period? With the 24 hr check in place games would deactivate anyways if they dont check in.

Basically, my issue is rentals. I buy a lot of games, but being able to rent them with promo codes and half off rentals at the local chain helps me to make additional purchasing decisions.

I guess what I'm asking is what's taking so long for them to out forth a rental decision? Waiting to see reaction to the policy? Technical?

I'd guess it will happen one of two ways, with the first more likely.

1. Special licenses that just activate the game for the rental period. Daily check would link with the rental service and make sure you'd paid for that day and deactivate the game if not. For gamefly it would just check daily that your subscription was active and paid up.

2. Rentals become online only through XBLA (and PSN if they do the same) where you just pay a daily fee to keep it active and own the game if you hit the purchase price.

 

[corrosivefrost]

To the people saying "its not that bad" or "not as bad as i thought" or "this is a good thing"

I love that guy!

 

[demosthenes]

Great, so when they announce something similar wouldn't you have wanted to know that months ago? I know I sure as fuck would have.

What does months ago versus right now do for you? Would you be picketing?

 

[Poke]

To the people saying "its not that bad" or "not as bad as i thought" or "this is a good thing"

I really like this guy from all I have seen from him. Seems like a really personable PR guy.

 

[derFeef]

To the people saying "its not that bad" or "not as bad as i thought" or "this is a good thing"

isn't he talking about the Google<>NSA thing? Going by his last tweets it seems like the case.

 

[Tripolygon]

isn't he talking about the Google<>NSA thing? Going by his last tweets it seems like the case.

Yea so? It fits well with what is going on in this thread that is why i posted it.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Exactly. That would be a kill shot but they haven't said anything since February.

While its likely that Sony will have some form of DRM. Their silence isn't proof it exists.

I mean why would Sony say anything now. Their competitor is getting beaten up remorselessly and they are not even having to lift a finger.

Just sit back and watch MS be beaten to a pulp. Watch as MS's attackers punch themselves out. Then when everyone is exhausted from the fighting, then step in the ring as fresh as a daisy.

Winner by default.

 

[SlowRevolution]

Holy shit, it seems like so many people have already reached the "acceptance" stage since last night, it's embarrassing. No clue why I'm surprised.

Not talking this thread specifically, but the gaming side in general.

 

[derFeef]

Yea so? It fits well with what is going on in this thread that is why i posted it.

Im just asking
You should state that though, without context such tweets can mean anything.

 

[Tripolygon]

Im just asking
You should state that though, without context such tweets can mean anything.

Thanks, already edited

 

[Basch]

Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

These were the only parts I cared about. The system will be just fine for my family and me. I love the fact that they're leaving DRM restrictions up to publishers. As long as it works for my family and close friends I'll be fine with it.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Holy shit, it seems like so many people have already reached the "acceptance" stage since last night, it's embarrassing. No clue why I'm surprised.

Not talking this thread, but the gaming side in general.

It's reality. Most people wont think this is a big deal and are out for what grants them their enjoyment. The majority of which who will throw all kinds of money at IAPs in a game like Puzzle & Dragons and not worry about being able to own, resell, loan, or gift any part of it. There's a reason the devs of that game are raking in 4 mil plus a day and it's not because peeps are worried about what happens AFTER they've spent their money.

The group that are outraged are the vocal minority and they are completely entitled to boycott or whatever else they feel. IMO of course. You cant expect everyone to be outraged by and not to eventually accept this tho.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

isn't he talking about the Google<>NSA thing? Going by his last tweets it seems like the case.

I was going to say, this seems like the NSA stuff.

 

[GeeDuhb]

The gist I got was that you can play your purchased games any time you want, even if someone in your family is already playing it, but only one shared account can play the same game at a time, unless they also bought a copy of the game.

Ah, this could make sense I guess. Good point.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

These were the only parts I cared about. The system will be just fine for my family and me. I love the fact that they're leaving DRM restrictions up to publishers. As long as it works for my family and close friends I'll be fine with it.

If this does work as such like this, this is perfect for my family. I would be tempted to back to more console game purchasing for them to play games so this would work for my daughters and I.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The double standard around here is pretty pathetic , any idiot that think publishers will let Sony keep the PS360 status queue for DRM and used games is drinking the Sony kool-aid of wishful dreaming.

You really think publishers are running the show now? Just because Microsoft bows doesn't mean Sony will, or has to. What are publishers going to do if Sony says no? Ignore yet another platform? Risk putting all of their eggs in the Xbone basket? With the super high cost of development? Go right ahead, but we'll be reading about your studio closing shop soon.

 

[Fresh Face]

Well, Microsoft just lost my money

No kidding. As I said in the other thread, I'm sure Microsoft will bring it with the games at e3, but I wont be able to participate in it because my console is rarely connect to the internet. I also sell a lot of my games (I like to buy new though).

Yeah I use Steam and all that, and yeah I can't sell my games, but see Steam, being on PC (my fav platform), is the place where I keep all my favorite games. I use my 360 as a buffer to try out a game sometimes before I buy it for PC. The One wont let me do that so there's now very little point in getting it even if internet was not a problem.

 

[fertygo]

Wait, some actually buying that "family" thing?

Bwahahahahaha.. jebus

Its not even being super negative, but come on why they use "family" as playing term here.. why not just "friend" if the system actually generous. As we can read in different line, the lending between "friend" sound awful why its so different with "family"?

Its just carefully chosen word for organized fuckery.

 

[SlowRevolution]

It's reality. Most people wont think this is a big deal and are out for what grants them their enjoyment. The majority of which who will throw all kinds of money at IAPs in a game like Puzzle & Dragons and not worry about being able to own, resell, loan, or gift any part of it. There's a reason the devs of that game are raking in 4 mil plus a day and it's not because peeps are worried about what happens AFTER they've spent their money.

The group that are outraged are the vocal minority and they are completely entitled to boycott or whatever else they feel. IMO of course. You cant expect everyone to be outraged by and not to eventually accept this tho.

I'm not expecting everyone to be outraged. It's just all of the willingness to bend over for a corporation that never stops being surprising, whether it's Microsoft or someone else. I don't care if people aren't mad about this, but the "stop whining, you'll buy it anyway" reactions are completely insane. It's going from people talking against anti-consumer policies to in-fighting, because people are desperate to try to turn this into some kind of console war. I completely get why people are cynical about stuff like this, but it's not helpful at all.

 

[verbum]

I was going to say, this seems like the NSA stuff.

MS and the NSA have teamed up to check your location every day and keep an eye on you. Just in case...


I can see MS's reasoning, keep costs down by eliminating physical distribution of media. The implementation is ill-conceived and ill-timed.

MS had a few good years being on top of the charts but regression to the mean can be a bitch. Ask any MLB player. Or Sony.

 

[Jac_Solar]

This whole thing feels like they really wanted this to be a digital only console, but then balked and have a bunch of these awful half measures.

That makes a lot of sense.

I mean, I don't get this console -- why did MS make this? Did they think people would really enjoy these features? I really doubt that. So, why? It's so weird.

If it was an all digital console, it would be a completely different deal. But as it stands, it's supposed to be a regular console but with all these digital measures that makes it awful. Are they going to give these away for free to get an install base?

All those arbitrary rules just to play a game. Even if it cost 50$ or something like that, I still wouldn't want it.

There was also a rumor that MS was going to release 2 types of consoles -- one digital, one regular. Maybe the digital one was supposed to get all these restrictions and features, while the other was just going to be a regular console.

 

[quest]

It's reality. Most people wont think this is a big deal and are out for what grants them their enjoyment. The majority of which who will throw all kinds of money at IAPs in a game like Puzzle & Dragons and not worry about being able to own, resell, loan, or gift any part of it. There's a reason the devs of that game are raking in 4 mil plus a day and it's not because peeps are worried about what happens AFTER they've spent their money.

The group that are outraged are the vocal minority and they are completely entitled to boycott or whatever else they feel. IMO of course. You cant expect everyone to be outraged by and not to eventually accept this tho.

Keep telling yourself that. Who is more likely to trade/sell/rent ect? That be the more casual gamers and gamers under 18. It will be a huge deal to parents who already are turned off by the high cost of console gaming. You think parents are going to be happy the only way to get a game is to spend 59.99 on a game the kid beats in a week and can't trade/sell it to play another game? The used game market puts 2+ billion dollars into gamers hands to buy new games every year. Raise the price of console game and less people will console game. It will just drive more people under 13 to tablet/phone gaming. Gaming is already an expensive hobby but to basically double the price of games makes it impossible to afford for most.

 

[corrosivefrost]

Wait, some actually buying that "family" thing?

Bwahahahahaha.. jebus

Its not even being super negative, but come on why they use "family" as playing term here.. why not just "friend" if the system actually generous. As we can read in different line, the lending between "friend" sound awful why its so different with "family"?

Its just carefully chosen word for organized fuckery.

Isn't there some sort of designation now for the gold "family" plans for XBL gold? If there is, I wouldn't be surprised to see that sort of restriction placed on the 10 family members rule.

 

[heyf00L]

That makes a lot of sense.

I mean, I don't get this console -- why did MS make this? Did they think people would really enjoy these features? I really doubt that. So, why? It's so weird.

If it was an all digital console, it would be a completely different deal. But as it stands, it's supposed to be a regular console but with all these digital measures that makes it awful. Are they going to give these away for free to get an install base?

All those arbitrary rules just to play a game. Even if it cost 50$ or something like that, I still wouldn't want it.

There was also a rumor that MS was going to release 2 types of consoles -- one digital, one regular. Maybe the digital one was supposed to get all these restrictions and features, while the other was just going to be a regular console.

It's what the big 3rd parties want. That's why.

But what I've been saying from the start is that MS can't do this alone. It's suicide to implement all of this and Sony not to. The 3rd parties must have gotten both MS and Sony to agree, but MS has been more vocal about it. You'll see. Sony will have the exact same measures in place on the PS4.

 

[Mystic River]

no XBONE for me for now... till I get it at a really discounted price and really discounted titles I may want to play, otherwise not a good deal

 

[EatinOlives]

Isn't there some sort of designation now for the gold "family" plans for XBL gold? If there is, I wouldn't be surprised to see that sort of restriction placed on the 10 family members rule.

They're going to restrict it to hell. People thinking they can get random friends all across the country to count as a "family" are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Impeccable]

Iut MS has been more vocal about it. You'll see. Sony will have the exact same measures in place on the PS4.

And when they don't?

 

[Tripolygon]

I was going to say, this seems like the NSA stuff.

You don't see how well that twitter quote fits well with what is going on in this thread? Forget the name and occupation of the guy who wrote it and think about the substance o what he is saying.

People in this thread are willing to give up their consumer rights for the promise of their games being stored in the cloud accessible to a very vague any one member of their family at any given time.

If Sony follows with the same exact Microsoft's policy instead of keeping it as it is now on PS3 and PS Vita, they can go fuck themselves.

 

[Foolishfellow]

The NSA stuff is really bad news for Microsoft. My guess is that web security is going to be one of the major issues of the summer.

I do however think that people are jumping the gun a bit in thinking that the PS4 will be much better. It wouldn't surprise me if PS4 has a lot of the same "features" as Xbox One. Sony is definitely watching to see how this thing plays out and holding their cards really close their chests.

 

[Apollo]

I'm so confused. What is stopping me from selling my game to the friend that I let borrow my game that is on friend list for 30+ days? I don't trust MS...screw this crap defiently going with Sony next gen. My main problem is the 24hr online check.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Wait, some actually buying that "family" thing?

Bwahahahahaha.. jebus

Its not even being super negative, but come on why they use "family" as playing term here.. why not just "friend" if the system actually generous. As we can read in different line, the lending between "friend" sound awful why its so different with "family"?

Its just carefully chosen word for organized fuckery.

It's all about the intent. They intend the usage to be among family members. You family tends to be much smaller than your circle of friends. So by saying hey pick your 10 closest friends, that opens up issues and all sorts of crap. I don't think there's anything to stop you from putting a friend on this list, but from Microsoft's view, it's easy enough to limit the usage, merely by making it sound like it's for family only. It's amazing how people will read something and just take it at face value without looking into it further if they even bother to read at all. So it's easy to get away with.

 

[IonicSnake]

Boogie posted a great video about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9APmJHu8DNs

 

[BigDug13]

The NSA stuff is really bad news for Microsoft. My guess is that web security is going to be one of the major issues of the summer.

I do however think that people are jumping the gun a bit in thinking that the PS4 will be much better. It wouldn't surprise me if PS4 has a lot of the same "features" as Xbox One. Sony is definitely watching to see how this thing plays out and holding their cards really close their chests.

Don't have to be online to play PS4 ever. That specific point that Sony already confirmed makes it infinitely superior to XBO's system. The fact that their system will be WAY more powerful than the competition helps.

 

[Liberty4all]

It's what the big 3rd parties want. That's why.

But what I've been saying from the start is that MS can't do this alone. It's suicide to implement all of this and Sony not to. The 3rd parties must have gotten both MS and Sony to agree, but MS has been more vocal about it. You'll see. Sony will have the exact same measures in place on the PS4.

If true, I'll be a Wii U/PC guy this gen.

 

[EatinOlives]

The NSA stuff is really bad news for Microsoft. My guess is that web security is going to be one of the major issues of the summer.

I do however think that people are jumping the gun a bit in thinking that the PS4 will be much better. It wouldn't surprise me if PS4 has a lot of the same "features" as Xbox One. Sony is definitely watching to see how this thing plays out and holding their cards really close their chests.

Sony doesn't have to. They're taking the "let 3rd parties" decide stance, so that if publishers go out of their way and implement restrictions identical to those on the X1 foro the games they publish on PS4, Sony will wash its hands and say "that wasn't us, that was the publisher".

They got their ass covered.

 

[SmokedMeat]

If Sony's nose was clean in this they'd have been shouting it from the rooftops for weeks now.

Why? Is it E3?

Why should they shout anything out? By saying nothing, they've let Microsoft be the guinea pig and announce how everything's going to work with Xbone. Now Sony can see the reaction and make adjustments seeing Microsoft facing a backlash the likes of which I've personally never seen in this hobby. They've gone ahead and shot themselves in the foot multiple times since the Sony reveal.

If Sony says anything it should be at E3, where they have a golden opportunity now to completely bury Microsoft. Had they said something months ago they could've been in the same hot water as Microsoft, but now they can come out smelling like a rose. We'll see what happens.