I was pushing him to make a statement in conjunction with his rebuttal to the other poster. My last post to him was just plain being a jackass, and doesn't add to the discussion in any meaningful way, so I edited and apologized. Methinks you misinterpreted my edit to be more of an attack on him though.
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Rumor: Microsoft announcing Indie self-publishing for Xbox One this week at BUILD?
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
I was pushing him to make a statement in conjunction with his rebuttal to the other poster. My last post to him was just plain being a jackass, and doesn't add to the discussion in any meaningful way, so I edited and apologized. Methinks you misinterpreted my edit to be more of an attack on him though.
Yeah, they also showed the exact same demo at E3.
I should have clarified. What I want to see is real gaming applications of the new Kinect. MS released similar videos for the original Kinect, that made it look incredible. But then the games came out and the fidelity and lag were terrible.
If Kinect is mandatory, surely they would have had a bunch of games that used it can could be shown off. Unless I missed it, I don't think they did.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Many of the games they showed off did use Kinect. They just weren't full motion games. For example, Ryze uses both voice commands to command troops and skeletal tracking where you can lift your controller to raise your shield. However, it's configurable so you can map that to buttons if you don't want to use Kinect.
Forza will surely use Kinect again for head tracking and for exploring the "ForzaVista" (previously AutoVista).
Project Spark used Kinect as well, but again it's not Kinect only.
I think they just didn't want to highlight those elements during the conference because they didn't want everyone to think that they were all "Kinect games" when in reality most of them are "Kinect+Controller hybrid" games.
Heh. Wow! I do not remember that at all... My god, MS sure takes their time with their messaging. Granted, it did work out in the end, but still... I don't see why they didn't announce it all at once. Thanks for that link and correcting me.
Monumental
Banned
Ok, you genuinely seem ignorant about this topic, so I'll try to inform you.
Microsoft fully displayed every single thing I wrote to journalists and showed it off the day they announced the Xbox One.
Here are some videos for you...
Wired: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4
Adam Sessler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kENCgBu2o4
Hope I could clear up your misconception for you.
I never said unplug it. I said just turn off the system. It should be as easy as "Xbox Turn Off". That's why I said that you can fully shut it down and turn off the low-power state if you'd like. If you genuinely believe that the system is still watching you then that's your problem, not the Kinect's or Microsoft's.
The funny thing is that the Kinect and extended OS capabilities is the reason why Microsoft went with 8GB Ram instead of 4GB in the first place. And that is what sort of led Randy Pitchford and other devs to suggest Sony to do the same as well. So you can thank the Kinect for both system actually having 8gb ram in the first place.
Did they show this off? I know games support Kinect, hence my point about wanting to see it in action.
Calm down dear.
If you actually read my post and my follow up ones, you can see I was talking about in-game demos of Kinect. All the videos I've seen have been the exact same tech demo, with no real world displays of it in action.
Monumental
Banned
How is this any different than PS Camera tech demos? You literally wanted a demonstration and when shown the most purest and raw demonstration of the tech you say that you don't believe it.
Then there is no more discussion to be had.
Riiight.
Me: Here's what the Kinect 2 can do.
You: I don't believe it. They haven't shown any of it.
Me: Well here's them showing exactly what I said being demonstrated.
You: No but they haven't shown it shown it...you know, like showing it for reals!
Me:
Iced_Eagle
Member
They showed some of this off to the press. You can find a lot of info about it in various articles during E3. From what I recall, the only game they showed actually using Kinect on stage was Project Spark. Can't really blame them though. They were going after the core with their conference, and if you read Gaf, you know that not a lot of people here are really fans of Kinect gaming, and I don't think a lot of people minded that there wasn't a lot of Kinect shown off during their conference (though funny how people think there wasn't enough Kinect now).
I believe they were showing Kinect off in D4, Crimson Dragon, Project Spark and Ryse either on the floor or behind closed doors.
It is actually pretty funny to see how badly Microsoft's vision has collapsed. I always felt like Sony had an actual vision, and Microsoft had a muddy "idea" they were working on. I guess the only way for Microsoft to catch up to release the exact same console feature(s). Too bad too. I see no point in buying both consoles if they are almost exactly the same. I was hoping to see some differentiation in order to give a reason to own both.
LiquidSolid
Member
Going into a thread about MS in Japan and talking about the Xbone selling 5 million there is pretty fucking out there for just a fan.
Not with you, obviously.
I assume you weren't around when MS were showing off Project Natal. They showed similar demos, which made it look like a technological marvel. The real world, in-game implementation of Kinect was a massive disappointment. Monumental, if you will.
MS needs to sell Kinect. They need to prove why its worth the extra $100 over the PS4. They need to prove why it has to be connected at all times. They won't do this by showing off tech demos that could just be the same smoke and mirrors as the Natal ones. Fool me once etc.
They need to show off Kinect games to the public, not behind closed doors.
Ace Harding
Member
The bolded is correct. The tech demos (which, by the way, aren't that impressive) do NOTHING to demonstrate why I should want one. How will that change how I play video games and interact with my console? I don't want bad voice commands. I don't want to wave my hands around to pick a movie on Netflix. Show me why that's better than using a controller. Show me ONE new game concept that uses Kinect 2.0. One.
Yeah, Sony hasn't shown anything better with its camera. But it doesn't have to - its not required in the box. I have the option of not buying one.
My mind is just blown that Microsoft would require this thing with NOTHING to show for it.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Jesus, I could only watch that for a minute. So pointless
Monumental
Banned
Lack of reading comprehension and taking things out of context seems to be a signature move of a certain group of people in Xbox One threads. Especially the type that still use "Xbone".
They did, and now millions of people have seen it. You're just choosing not to believe it...because it suits the skewed view of the system you're trying to push.
ChosenPredator
Banned
i remember when 360 came out it had all those neat arcade titles hopefully they continue to go on the path of good and not downwards
Yeah, that was it. For 50 bucks, it seems like a fun addition to the PS4. My 4yo will love it. It showed the PS4 camera works for games, with no lag and lots of possibilities.
I have no doubt the new Kinect will be great and will be the Xbone's trump card. But at the moment, it's just taking MS word (lol) on it, rather than seeing this for myself.
Link to Kinect game videos please.
I've already admitted I might have missed them, so please link away.
Luckily the price difference isn't so big in Australia, only $51 difference. Might even see more Xbox One's selling in Australia because people won't really care about the extra $51.
Monumental
Banned
What are you even arguing dude?
They showed off a tech demo. A demonstration of what the technology is capable. of. You're arguing that the tech is NOT capable of it and you don't believe it. That's you prerogative. But Microsoft has factually demonstrated every single thing I stated the new Kinect could do, and then allowed those demonstrations to be put up on youtube in front of the world to be scrutinized.
Whether games choose to use it or not, and whether games are demoing those functionalities is beside the point.
lol
Ace Harding
Member
They did? What Kinect games have they shown to millions of people?
In the old days, to first party (Sony, Nintendo, MS) selling games on marketplace was more like they were running a Costco warehouse. A publisher sells the game to the console manufacturer more like a wholesale system. The fact that not many people know this is the traditional way the bean counting is done, means maybe it is kept in secrecy but I am pretty sure that is how it usually worked.
They buy a ton of the item from the developer directly for a set price, and have some agreement where dev gets royalties maybe only if it actually sells well. The risk on dev is actually low in some cases because they get funding to develop the game and make a little bit of money. With Sony, they have a pub fund model now that gives the dev some $$ just out of the blue in trade for exclusivity period agreement, this is actually not THAT much different than MS 1st party publishing with the difference of needing to route everything through a publisher on MS side.
The amount of $ dev receives for a 1st party publishing deal might be negotiable, so maybe some team like the Minecraft XBLA team is receiving lots of upfront money and support and another team maybe only a little, I am sure to an indie perspective that sort of thing would seem unfair...
Now on iOS even though it is completely open you see some indie devs preferring to work with Chillingo anyway, because Chillingo has a good reputation of doing good marketing and supporting devs in a protective way. Probably people at MS and Sony would prefer so they don't have to talk to 900 individual devs, I have no idea how Sony is going to be truly open because if they have the # of people posting games on Steam Greenlight trying to talk to them then they will have to do a lot of curation and ignoring people which gets us back to square one (not truly open). Truly open is like XBLIG or iOS, as long as you pass a cert test your game is getting listed, period. Sony self publishing is not TRULY open but it sounds like they genuinely want to take anything that is high quality enough...drawing that line is where things get tricky!
They buy a ton of the item from the developer directly for a set price, and have some agreement where dev gets royalties maybe only if it actually sells well. The risk on dev is actually low in some cases because they get funding to develop the game and make a little bit of money. With Sony, they have a pub fund model now that gives the dev some $$ just out of the blue in trade for exclusivity period agreement, this is actually not THAT much different than MS 1st party publishing with the difference of needing to route everything through a publisher on MS side.
The amount of $ dev receives for a 1st party publishing deal might be negotiable, so maybe some team like the Minecraft XBLA team is receiving lots of upfront money and support and another team maybe only a little, I am sure to an indie perspective that sort of thing would seem unfair...
Now on iOS even though it is completely open you see some indie devs preferring to work with Chillingo anyway, because Chillingo has a good reputation of doing good marketing and supporting devs in a protective way. Probably people at MS and Sony would prefer so they don't have to talk to 900 individual devs, I have no idea how Sony is going to be truly open because if they have the # of people posting games on Steam Greenlight trying to talk to them then they will have to do a lot of curation and ignoring people which gets us back to square one (not truly open). Truly open is like XBLIG or iOS, as long as you pass a cert test your game is getting listed, period. Sony self publishing is not TRULY open but it sounds like they genuinely want to take anything that is high quality enough...drawing that line is where things get tricky!
Some of the arguments against kinect are hilarious. There are a lot of people on here that can't sit on a toilet without having a smart device in their hands and they walk around 24/7 with a cellphone and they're scared of kinect and nothing else that they already use. You all should have listened to the Unibomber back in the day. He predicted all these things and people thought he was full of shit. A lot of you are a decade and a half too late in regards to worrying about your lives being recorded by big brother.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Did you get to the actual game part? It looks fun to me (and everyone else that played it at E3).
Also XBLIG has some of the best games on Xbox 360 and anyone hating on it is totally ignorant of that fact, BloodyCheckers, Aban Hawkins, Tempura of the Dead, Revolver 360, Prismatic Solid, Avatar Legends, tons of uber polished and very nice games there. The fact that no one in Xbox team pushed XBLIG harder is one of my biggest disappointments about Xbox 360 era.
To be fair the videos I posted aren't quite the same as the Natal videos. The Natal videos were just the "behind the scenes" type videos with people like Peter Molyneux hyping it like crazy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but with Natal they never actually got a bunch journalists in a room and allowed them to experience the tech for themselves, never mind allowing them to record it and upload it to YouTube. In the rare events that they did demo Natal it was always in a much more controlled environment. So I don't think it's fair to call what you see in those videos smoke and mirrors.
I think the first big game that's going to be a Kinect only game will be Kinect Sports Rivals, so I guess we'll have to wait until that's released to see just how much improvement Kinect 2 brings to games.
Random Eclipse
Banned
I seen a video of a fantasia demo with a guy from Harmonix and a woman playing it. It was from one of the major gaming sites, either IGN, GT, or Gamespot.
I'm assuming it'll be like Windows Phone and Windows stores. You have two classes of games..
Games with Xbox branding - Equivalent to XBLA games, no self publishing but have access Xbox Live infrastructure
Games without Xbox branding - Equivalent to Indie games, self publishing but no Xbox Live
So, what is the real issue with indie games right now? Is the lack of Xbox Live (e.g. achievements) the deal breaker, or the fact that discoverability was bad because they were dumped into their own section?
Games with Xbox branding - Equivalent to XBLA games, no self publishing but have access Xbox Live infrastructure
Games without Xbox branding - Equivalent to Indie games, self publishing but no Xbox Live
So, what is the real issue with indie games right now? Is the lack of Xbox Live (e.g. achievements) the deal breaker, or the fact that discoverability was bad because they were dumped into their own section?
rohlfinator
Member
Not the same thing -- "indie self-publishing" in this context means that indies could sell their games on the digital store without having to go through a publisher. Microsoft would still need to approve them though.
XBLIG was just peer-approved, which is why it had so much garbage.
you joke like it's a good thing.
I'd rather support a company with a clear vision of where they're at and where they're going.
Microsoft has shown me, as an entity in this industry that they lack both.
LiquidSolid
Member
And I suppose condescending attitudes and a chip on their shoulders are signature moves of another certain group in Xbone threads?
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
I guess Kathleen Sanders is no longer with Microsoft -- she was a bigwig for the Indie Games channels back in the day. She's not impressed with MS's handling of the situation: https://twitter.com/ninjaharlot/status/348172579397316608
Let's see what BUILD can do (or won't do) to remedy this.
Let's see what BUILD can do (or won't do) to remedy this.
rohlfinator
Member
Yeah, I could see that happening. If they did that, I wonder whether the indie games would get to use the "full game" hardware, or if they'd be restricted to the smaller "OS" reserved hardware.
Mostly discoverability. Plus the XBLIG section was often really buried in the dashboard, and afaik Microsoft never did much to promote the good games, so it quickly developed a bad reputation.
Microsoft stopped actively supporting them and they have to find publisher before they get their game approved - publisher that does nothing but takes a cut of their earnings.
statham
Member
This is true, Murder Miners is excellent, Avatar Warfare is solid, and their's a harry potter like multiplayer game(forgot the name) thats also solid.Its just mixed in with alot of crap games.
Are you basing this purely on the fact they reversed their position on DRM?
That will be the case when people are allowed to publish whatever they want. Just look at the tablet gaming ecosystem. A ton of crap and a few good games hoping to get a week in the top 10 chart. Because once your game drops off of that it gets lost in the shuffle.
They certainly did.
They even let journos 'play' the Milo demo (which we now know to be 100% smoke and mirrors bullshit).
Ok, fair enough. But still, they weren't quite as open as they are with Kinect 2. They even mention in that Eurogamer article that there were certain parts they weren't allowed to film.
Compare that with Kinect 2 where you can find many videos of the same demo (from large well known organisations such as WIRED, all the way down to the smaller more independent blogs), and it just seems to me that they aren't trying to hide anything this time. We also haven't seen any reports of journalists being forbidden to film certain areas etc...
You're obviously more sceptical and that's fine, but with what I've seen I have no problem believing that the tech is real and that no smoke and mirrors were used in those demos.
If actual game footage is what you want then you'll probably be waiting for a while. Although maybe KSR will be demoed at Gamescom.
There a a ton is videos from E3 2009 with Kudo Tsunoda showing of the Natal tech demos and journos and members of the public trying them out for themselves.
It's not so much the Kinect 2 tech demo being faked, but the potential gulf between it and its in-game implementation. The gulf between the Natal stuff and the actual games that came out were massive (Steel Battalion lol).
I'll wait until Gamescom, I guess. Sorry for the thread derail everyone!
How so?
eddfromtheriver
Banned
None of those things are anywhere as bad as what Microsoft intended, and i said i never liked MS and i stand by it, most Third party games on the 360 were also available on the PS3, and the exclusives they had/have do nothing for me... Halo?, GoW?, Fable?... they do zilch for me, i never liked them, but after the Xbox One rumors started flying around that's when i started despising them, they saw the backlash on online forums but still changed nada... they thought they'd get away with it... that it was only the "nerds" that wouldn't put up with their nonsense, they had to wait until they saw pre order numbers and were humilliated on national tv... hence all the backpedaling that's going on.
So yes, nothing Sony has done so far has been as anti consumer and moronic as what microsoft tried to do... so forgive me if i don't think its fair that they should get away with a slap on the wrist.
Iced_Eagle
Member
...Are you serious? You did not think their rootkit scandal was "anti-consumer"? There were even government investigations over it and class action lawsuits against Sony because of it.
Maybe you've forgotten.
*Edit* Okay, this is getting off-topic... My bad.
Can't wait for this week. Hopefully we get some good news!