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Rumor: Microsoft announcing Indie self-publishing for Xbox One this week at BUILD?

Feep

Banned
You think you would be able to utilize Kinect voice commands with it?
Would be damn sweet if you got this on the XBone.
(shrug) It already works with the Kinect 1.0 sensor. In fact, I mostly use the Kinect sensor for debugging, because I hate having to wear a headset all the time. = D
 

jim2011

Member
In addition to the others already mentioned, I thought these were interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/2-703
Building Windows Second Screen Experiences using Xbox SmartGlass

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/3-705
Kinect Interactions: Get a Grip in C# or HTML5/Javascript

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/2-150
Beautiful apps at any size on any screen

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/2-215
Real Talk: Sharing Code between the Windows & Windows Phone Platforms

Mainly the fact they're talking about SmartGlass and Kinect leads me to believe they'll bring the Windows Store to Xbox One. Seems like Windows Phone will still be segregated from the Windows Store but they're focusing on how to share code between the two platforms.
 

CookTrain

Member
Lack of Xbox is disturbing. If they bring the Windows Store to Xbox, I think that would be even worse...

I think Windows Store is a nod and wink euphemism for "all platforms", which will likely include the new Xbox. Which leads me to think it's going to be the hamstrung version that let's developers use less than half the potency of the console.
 
Lack of Xbox is disturbing. If they bring the Windows Store to Xbox, I think that would be even worse...

To be fair, it was never confirmed there would be any Xbox related information at this event.

If anything they could just be talking about their Xbox apps plan, which supposedly should be extremely simple to port to from a Windows 8 app.

We'll find out over the next few days!
 

ekim

Member
To be fair, it was never confirmed there would be any Xbox related information at this event.

If anything they could just be talking about their Xbox apps plan, which supposedly should be extremely simple to port to from a Windows 8 app.

We'll find out over the next few days!

Well they have shown the Xbox logo on the Build announcement website.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened

Seriously. I hate windows 8 (and you know that I do) but leveraging windows store makes too much sense, both for Xbox and for windows. Possibly even for Phone, too.

Not just for distribution but for the amount of content.

You make an "XBLA" game for Xbox... Well... Not to difficult to port to windows... Well... May as well port to phone too..

The timing in which you can deploy on multiple platforms, especially for indie devs... Is super important.
 
Well they have shown the Xbox logo on the Build announcement website.

That could be for any number of reasons though. The biggest being that Xbox One now uses Windows 8 at its core. Xbox has always been a closed platform, and they generally haven't talked about developing on it in such public venues as far as I'm aware (there's no point as the public couldn't get access to developing on it, except for XBLIG of course).

However, as someone pointed out above, it does seem there will be some Xbox content there, so it seems like there is hope for some Xbox-related announcements though.

If they open up the store on Xbox for any registered developer, and treat it like Win8 (as in, you pay a small yearly developer subscription fee), that will be so huge.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Seriously. I hate windows 8 (and you know that I do) but leveraging windows store makes too much sense, both for Xbox and for windows. Possibly even for Phone, too.

Not just for distribution but for the amount of content.

You make an "XBLA" game for Xbox... Well... Not to difficult to port to windows... Well... May as well port to phone too..

The timing in which you can deploy on multiple platforms, especially for indie devs... Is super important.
It's just....confusing.


People want self-publishing on Xbox One.
The Windows Store supports self-publishing.
People don't want the Windows Store on Xbox One.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
It's just....confusing.


People want self-publishing on Xbox One.
The Windows Store supports self-publishing.
People don't want the Windows Store on Xbox One.

$99 to dev, self publish all you want!

These folks don't understand that "games" on Xbox are now big published games. XBLA (smaller studios) and XBLIG would be rolled into Windows Marketplace

as long as they have an easy way of looking at the content all in one place... it won't matter where it comes from.


Also I see people even whining about "power" that they won't get like XBLIG

which doesn't make sense either considering you had to run everything in managed code anyways.
 

Lynn616

Member
It's just....confusing.


People want self-publishing on Xbox One.
The Windows Store supports self-publishing.
People don't want the Windows Store on Xbox One.

I want the Windows Store on the Xbox. I don`t see why anyone would be against it.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
I want the Windows Store on the Xbox. I don`t see why anyone would be against it.
It just all depends on the guidelines and restrictions they have in place. If they require games to support Windows Store guidelines AND Xbox One guidelines, then I personally wouldn't want to dev for it right away because the Windows Store requires all games to be touch compatible.

Not a massive deal in the long run, but a lot of unnecessary development and wasted time if that's the case.
 

patchday

Member
sounds like a move in the right direction I hope someone hits it big this time. I never heard of anyone blowing up by self publishing via XNA last time around... But maybe if they're given better tools and setup this can happen this time
 
It just all depends on the guidelines and restrictions they have in place. If they require games to support Windows Store guidelines AND Xbox One guidelines, then I personally wouldn't want to dev for it right away because the Windows Store requires all games to be touch compatible.

Not a massive deal in the long run, but a lot of unnecessary development and wasted time if that's the case.
I think that by integrated store people usually mean like having the possibility to put a single game/app purchase that is compatible between all those platforms, not that everything will instantly be shared among them.

Those who would like to develop a game only on xbone could publish it only on the console marketplace and never bother with touch controls or the hurdles about devoloping for multiple devices with different capabilities.
 

CLEEK

Member
It just all depends on the guidelines and restrictions they have in place. If they require games to support Windows Store guidelines AND Xbox One guidelines, then I personally wouldn't want to dev for it right away because the Windows Store requires all games to be touch compatible.

Not a massive deal in the long run, but a lot of unnecessary development and wasted time if that's the case.

How does this work for Windows Stores games now if you buy them on a Windows 8 desktop? Do they not have pad support? Touch controls only?
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
If this is true, and it's a big if, how are they going to win back the indie devs who have all these horror stories over working with MS? Throwing money at them won't solve the problem.
 
So this announcement is expected to come in the Keynote tomorrow?

If this is true, and it's a big if, how are they going to win back the indie devs who have all these horror stories over working with MS? Throwing money at them won't solve the problem.
By offering them a good service
 

SPDIF

Member
How does this work for Windows Stores games now if you buy them on a Windows 8 desktop? Do they not have pad support? Touch controls only?

All Windows 8 apps and games are required to support both touch and mouse and keyboard. Games can offer gamepad support as an option, but it's not a requirement.
 

dLMN8R

Member
All Windows 8 apps and games are required to support both touch and mouse and keyboard. Games can offer gamepad support as an option, but it's not a requirement.

Touch + mouse is easy considering that Windows 8's "pointer" events handle both automatically with little to no extra work for the developer.
 

SPDIF

Member
Touch + mouse is easy considering that Windows 8's "pointer" events handle both automatically with little to no extra work for the developer.

As someone who worked on a Windows 8 app, I know that :)

I wasn't trying to paint it as a negative, just giving him the full details.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Simple: The Windows Store is an unmitigated pile of shit.

Still, it does have some exclusives, like this Mass Effect campaign.

So you're saying that because the Windows Store has some bad apps, its existence shouldn't be on the Xbox?

Even though its existence would directly enable exactly what people are asking for, and even though using it as a starting base is a far better idea than starting from nothing?
 

AngryFacing

Neo Member
If what I think will happen, is publishing to W8 also means you can publish to Xbox One at the same time, then I'll be pretty excited. This could also mean the ability to use a handful of different development tools other than the current offering (Unity, etc) to bring your games through Windows 8 and to the Xbox One.

I'm excited.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
I think that by integrated store people usually mean like having the possibility to put a single game/app purchase that is compatible between all those platforms, not that everything will instantly be shared among them.

Those who would like to develop a game only on xbone could publish it only on the console marketplace and never bother with touch controls or the hurdles about devoloping for multiple devices with different capabilities.

That would be the more ideal situation.

The absolute best move for MS would be to open up self publishing on their games marketplace. Anything else, be it specialized code bases for Windows only platforms a la XNA, Windows 8/Xbox Side App self publishing, or a new form of XBLIG would be OK, but wouldn't be all that practical for indies who publish on multiple platforms.

If they don't announce something tomorrow, I've lost hope for any news this year.
 
So you're saying that because the Windows Store has some bad apps, its existence shouldn't be on the Xbox?

Even though its existence would directly enable exactly what people are asking for, and even though using it as a starting base is a far better idea than starting from nothing?

Then if that's the only way, it's the only way.

Hopefully they do a better job of 'app discovery' (instead of the shit job they devolved the Marketplace to). I just don't think it's going to get the whizbang support you assume it's going to get (judging by the current sorry state of affairs).
 

jim2011

Member
That would be the more ideal situation.

The absolute best move for MS would be to open up self publishing on their games marketplace. Anything else, be it specialized code bases for Windows only platforms a la XNA, Windows 8/Xbox Side App self publishing, or a new form of XBLIG would be OK, but wouldn't be all that practical for indies who publish on multiple platforms.

If they don't announce something tomorrow, I've lost hope for any news this year.

The problem with opening up self publishing to their main game marketplace is the amount of crap that will populate it. Microsoft wants to put the big games first and its understandable considering that's mainly what gamers want. Having a listing of every single indie game in the main marketplace would be a nightmare for the average consumer. I know that might piss off a lot of indie devs but its the truth. If you want a game to be heavily advertised to the masses, signing a major publisher would be the way to go. Another solution may be to accept self publishing to the main marketplace but at the same rate as what the other publishers pay. That's not to say you can't rise to the top of the charts of the windows/indie marketplace and still make a foturne.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Then if that's the only way, it's the only way.

Hopefully they do a better job of 'app discovery' (instead of the shit job they devolved the Marketplace to). I just don't think it's going to get the whizbang support you assume it's going to get (judging by the current sorry state of affairs).

If only Windows 8.1 was already doing things like that, which would naturally extend to hypothetic Xbox integration


You're conflating apps and user experience with back-end technology and certification processes. Stop that.
 

CLEEK

Member
If Windows Store, or a subset of it, is part of the Xbox (and I'm sure it will be), won't games available through it runs as apps under the non-game OS side of things?

So will run under the 2 CPU cores, 10% GPU and 3GB RAM (the system resources reserved for the application OS)?

That doesn't bode well for games, beyond basic Angry Birds style ones. Anything wanting more grunt would have to be a stand alone Xbox One title.
 

PG2G

Member
If Windows Store, or a subset of it, is part of the Xbox (and I'm sure it will be), won't games available through it runs as apps under the non-game OS side of things?

So will run under the 2 CPU cores, 10% GPU and 3GB RAM (the system resources reserved for the application OS)?

That doesn't bode well for games, beyond basic Angry Birds style ones. Anything wanting more grunt would have to be a stand alone Xbox One title.

There is always a chance that when an app is focus it could have further access to CPU and GPU as it would be unused. The memory obviously wouldn't go beyond 3 gigs because a game can apparently use all 5 gigs when suspended.

Limiting an in focus app to 2 cores would be... quite limiting, even for non gaming applications. It just doesn't make sense when everything else is sitting idle.
 
There is always a chance that when an app is focus it could have further access to CPU and GPU as it would be unused. The memory obviously wouldn't go beyond 3 gigs because a game can apparently use all 5 gigs when suspended.

Limiting an in focus app to 2 cores would be... quite limiting, even for non gaming applications. It just doesn't make sense when everything else is sitting idle.

Games on xbone can be suspended where they stop using any cpu or gpu resources, but still manage to keep their memory... You might be into something here... If the app is a game in full screen it should be able to utilize all the processing power + 3GB of ram...
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
The problem with opening up self publishing to their main game marketplace is the amount of crap that will populate it. Microsoft wants to put the big games first and its understandable considering that's mainly what gamers want. Having a listing of every single indie game in the main marketplace would be a nightmare for the average consumer. I know that might piss off a lot of indie devs but its the truth. If you want a game to be heavily advertised to the masses, signing a major publisher would be the way to go. Another solution may be to accept self publishing to the main marketplace but at the same rate as what the other publishers pay. That's not to say you can't rise to the top of the charts of the windows/indie marketplace and still make a foturne.

I should be a bit more clear what I mean when I say self publishing.

I DON'T want self publishing on the MS Marketplace like XBLIG or the iOS store...it would be a catastrophe and tons of muck would gum up the works.

What I do want is self publishing like Sony is doing- send in an application, be approved for publishing, and get development kits. This immediately filters out a lot of devs who might not be ready for the big leagues.
 
I should be a bit more clear what I mean when I say self publishing.

I DON'T want self publishing on the MS Marketplace like XBLIG or the iOS store...it would be a catastrophe and tons of muck would gum up the works.

What I do want is self publishing like Sony is doing- send in an application, be approved for publishing, and get development kits. This immediately filters out a lot of devs who might not be ready for the big leagues.

Why would you want the more restrictive model? As long as the interface are effective at separating the good from the bad, the more games the better. The thing I like most in app stores is that there are always games that definitely wouldn't be greenlight by anyone, but can still give you a good time for their price...
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Why would you want the more restrictive model? As long as the interface are effective at separating the good from the bad, the more games the better. The thing I like most in app stores is that there are always games that definitely wouldn't be greenlight by anyone, but can still give you a good time for their price...

I think there does need to be a level of quality for digital stores on consoles. It would be fine if MS opened a "games lab" where consumers know it has a bunch of small apps and games that aren't quality tested. But I don't think it's right for something like, say, Forza 5 vying for position on the charts against four massage apps.
 

strata8

Member
If Windows Store, or a subset of it, is part of the Xbox (and I'm sure it will be), won't games available through it runs as apps under the non-game OS side of things?

So will run under the 2 CPU cores, 10% GPU and 3GB RAM (the system resources reserved for the application OS)?

That doesn't bode well for games, beyond basic Angry Birds style ones. Anything wanting more grunt would have to be a stand alone Xbox One title.

The CPU and GPU would be freed up. Maybe not the RAM, but 3GB is still plenty for the sorts of games you'd be seeing on the store.

Even if the GPU wasn't freed up, though, 10% of the Xbox One GPU is around the level of a Snapdragon 600. And that chip runs games like this at 1080p:
BsN4ZQke8JWkkQyKv0lkT_yNM4jvNIw9BEwYvTyDSoT8OU7zxVBR-1oVd07-VTj5JgA


So a bit beyond Angry Birds even if the resources are limited.
 

CookTrain

Member
I think there does need to be a level of quality for digital stores on consoles. It would be fine if MS opened a "games lab" where consumers know it has a bunch of small apps and games that aren't quality tested. But I don't think it's right for something like, say, Forza 5 vying for position on the charts against four massage apps.

I don't think there should be a quality requirement. Yes, it leads to some undesirable signal:noise ratios, but I said it years ago when Community Games was first touted and I stick to it now, that if you remove the floor for content, you also remove the ceiling. You never know where that diamond in the rough will come from and I think laying open the publishing rules to be as lenient as possible is a gain rather than a loss.

Maybe Forza 5 shouldn't be wrestling with massage apps... but if people are buying massage apps over Forza 5, why should it earn it's crust on IP alone? The only thing that needs to happen is a concerted effort to highlight the quality titles the come forth. Not step on and eradicate the junk from happening in the first place.

Saying you don't want games from devs who aren't ready for the big leagues is a really disappointing thing to read. Most of the top flight developers today started their coding lives when there weren't even leagues to be big in. Literal bedroom coders larking around, toying with print commands and poking at hex colour charts. That's how you start growing and if you're able to see a return (meagre as it might be) on your experimentation, it will inevitably push some to indulge their passion more and that's how you unearth the next generation of developers.

Also I see people even whining about "power" that they won't get like XBLIG

which doesn't make sense either considering you had to run everything in managed code anyways.

As one of the people who has bemoaned this specific aspect (and having published to XBLIG myself with a fond view of the experience, it can hardly be claimed I'm taking potshots at it), it's less to do with the potential it'll lead for games which, as demonstrated above, is still far above what a lot of portable devices can currently chalk together... which in turn matches the ambition of a lot of PC indie devs (Frozen Synapse in the latest Android Humble Bundle is a godsend). The actual level of grunt that indies have to work with will be plenty. The problem, as it often seems to be with Microsoft, will be one of perception. When you've got cases like Blow harping on about wrestling to contain his vision within the confines of the entire PS4 powerhouse, people are going to look at Windows Store publishing in the hemmed off part of the system as the backwards cousin of Indie gaming. Perception trumps reality in these matters and it's really rather silly.
 
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