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Mark Cerny did 15 presentations convincing Sony to use x86 for PS4
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
Tools. Decades of tools.
Also the fact that AMD can give you an x86 CPU + competitive GPU in the right power envelope for a console.
It's not about how simple or complex your architecture is; it's about how similar to the dominant architecture your architecture is. Even if your platform is the easiest in the world to program for, nobody's going to make the effort if you do things differently than everyone else. (Not to mention that power is useless if tapping it is a pain in the ass; see the Cell for a perfect example of this.)
The choice to go x86 was a completely logical one. I'm surprised it took 15 presentations to convince Sony execs that making your hardware like a PC would make developers (most of whom have at least some PC experience) happier.
The choice to go x86 was a completely logical one. I'm surprised it took 15 presentations to convince Sony execs that making your hardware like a PC would make developers (most of whom have at least some PC experience) happier.
GravityMan
Member
These guys are correct. This isn't all that newsworthy, IMO.
Still, thumbs up for Cerny though.
I'm on the train and just snorted loll
Complex as in expensive to produce. That's why Microsoft walked away from Intel.
lazybones18
Banned
I'll be in my tub
LordBaztion
Member
15 presentations!
That guy must really love PlayStation
That guy must really love PlayStation
soulassssns
Banned
Wasn't the CPU in the original Xbox an X86 CPU?
Either way Cerny is a beast in what he was able to get Sony to do.
Either way Cerny is a beast in what he was able to get Sony to do.
Oh, that actually makes a lot of sense. Though I guess AMD worked like hell to mitigate that issue, and even Intel's working there.
In all honesty this make sense, it's a huge decision, I'm glad both consoles are using this standardized x86 architecture, it makes so much sense.
People think you are trolling but this is so true right here.
People think you are trolling but this is so true right here.
Can someone please explain me this fawning over Cerny that is always in display in threads concerning him? People are acting like he reinvented the wheel; he just chose the most common and the already most-liked architecture.
If anything, it puts Sony in a less positive spot that he had to work so had for it. What architecture did they plan to go with?
If anything, it puts Sony in a less positive spot that he had to work so had for it. What architecture did they plan to go with?
Primedoughnut
Banned
think theirs an 'l' missing from your user name....
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
They walked away from Nvidia too, and for the same reason.
But the high costs were more a result of contractually-locked prices and not owning the designs.
B_Boss
Member
You're not wrong, but it shows that Sony changed their approach pretty radically because of him. That's a good thing.
Theman2k
Member
Amazing.
I need more tub though.
On topic,
cerny is doing great interviews lately, he makes the ps4 sound better every time.
Yes, but why is it praise-worthy to the extremes shown here? Where are the gifs for whoever chose X86 for One?
Why do i need to go besides myself over this? Why do i need to bang drums for a person who chose to go with the most obvious choice; the one developers themselves pushed for? Again, why did Sony need all that convincing anyhow?
Even for the fabled 8GB GDDR5, it wasn't Cerny who made the decision as far as i know. He probably said 'if you can go for it' but it were the higher-ups who made the final decision putting this or that much RAM.
Why do i need to go besides myself over this? Why do i need to bang drums for a person who chose to go with the most obvious choice; the one developers themselves pushed for? Again, why did Sony need all that convincing anyhow?
Even for the fabled 8GB GDDR5, it wasn't Cerny who made the decision as far as i know. He probably said 'if you can go for it' but it were the higher-ups who made the final decision putting this or that much RAM.
Someone made a gif in the Playstation meeting thread for Kaz. It's just snowballed, wonderfully might I add, to this point. The Xbox gifs seem more like a me to (ironic no?)
But no Playstation console (or CE product in general) has ever been designed outside of Japan.
HoodWinked
Member
same reason people still make kaz gifs when he pretty much doesnt even micromanage playstation anymore.
theres alot of misattributed stuff in general
Primedoughnut
Banned
I think your doing him a disservice with that post, he did a hell of a lot more than you seem willing to admit...
lead system architect means he did a bit more than a fucking PowerPoint presentation...
Look him up on wiki and see the portfolio of games he's influenced. Having someone like that in charge instead of a suit might seem like a god.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Of course, there always is abstraction. The thing is, you can and probably will be required to delve alot deeper into manipulating the pipeline of CISC type processors compared to the more RISC like parts previous consoles use. Its not a trivial decision in the slightest. You have to realize that alot of first party developers only have experience with consoles.
Erm, x86 isnt any of that...
Whitechocolatekrispies
Banned
He is one of the first and only guys up there that treats us with respect.
He is humble, intelligent, fascinating and most importantly provided us with the most powerful yet significantly cheaper console.
Get down on your god damn knees. Because without him Sony would be out Xboning Microsoft right now.
JordanN
Banned
Even without Cerny, Vince walks like an absolute cartoon character. XD
Do we actually know how much influence he had on games like Uncharted, God of War 3 etc.? "Design Consultant" is super vague.
lol that is hilarious
Really? It's not like he single-handily built and designed the console and approved all the decisions and gave the money to do so.
Functionality-wise, pretty much every feature the PS4 has the XB1 has too and vice-verca.
If the PS4 would have been radically different w\o Cerny's input then that would have been a negative testament upon Sony rather than portraying him as an exceptional engineer who has shown gamers the light.
iamshadowlark
Banned
The various types of simple instruction architectures used in embedded systems. Power, PPC, ARM, MIPS....
Can somebody insert Cerny's face into "Its me austin, it was me al along!", but with Kutaragi in stead of Austin in subtitles.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Adam Boyce needs to be Thor.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Those grapefruits.
Well, in the present day, it's probably safe to say the "more mainstream game market" is mostly made up of people developing in Java for Android and Objective-C for iOS. So, no, they are isolated from the ISA by design of the platform holder, aside from *maybe* being exposed somewhat via the toolchain.
However, I don't think that the "mainstream" programmer on x86 platforms is writing a whole lot of assembly either. In both cases, we are talking about a small number of experts writing libraries, kernel modules, and compiler optimizations that get used by the mainstream folks. And I think the number of people working on high performance libraries for ARM is growing faster than those on x86.
how do you know this? Tell us more about ps4 OS please?
he made a more powerful machine with 25% cheaper, easier to develop for and more efficient than there direct competition. It's the same company that made a 600$ console and bitch to develop for.
he deserves a HUGE credit
my day is all downhill from here.
Neuromancer
Member
The man who saved the PS4.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Seemingly as a result of his leadership, we're getting a next-gen console that's relatively cheap, surprisingly powerful, and easy to develop for. The rumored hassles with XB1 development in comparison to the PS4 seems to prove this.
"My body is ready" for the day when Nintendo get rid of Iwata and Reggie.
The man who won Sony the Console War of the 8th Generation.
BlazingRain
Banned
It's funny how most of the people in this discussion have no idea about any ISAs or why one would be better than another in a given hardware, and just a few people (like you) are able to give any meaningful commentary on this topic.
Regardless, I wish Sony didn't listen to him and used ARM or Power again. x86 needs to be abandoned sooner or later, and probably will not be the dominant ISA come next generation anyway.
"Another exotic architecture? NO CHANCE IN HELL PAL!"
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