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Valve announces Steam Controller
- Thread starter angular graphics
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I really really like the controller in principle and the dev impressions give me optimism. Guess we all have to wait for beta testers to show it off. Worst case scenario for some game, just dig out an old controller.
Also. Yes, I am a child
Best one yet, lol.
angular graphics
Banned
We call it gabepad.
It's not "obvious". Right now we can't even tell if "grip" is even needed without trying it. You're not moving the thing for a start unlike a stick. All you should need is enough resistance for feedback and nothing more.
Bottom line you're jumping to conclusions with almost zero evidence either way - but you're not alone in that.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I really really like the controller in principle and the dev impressions give me optimism. Guess we all have to wait for beta testers to show it off. Worst case scenario for some game, just dig out an old controller.
Also. Yes, I am a child
Superb!
Sentenza
Member
Uh?
One of the stupidest analogies I've seen. The thing is this quote has been used so many times for products that get a lot of negative feedback that its just used out of context. Does anyone seriously think that this controller is anyway analogous to the first mass production car that was affordable. (hint: its not).
That quote is just meant to point that asking to the people what they want and taking their answer at face value rarely leads to genuinely new and creative solutions.
There's no any other "comparison" involved.
The game seems to have been designed as a compliment to the 360 pad, rather than a replacement. Instead focusing on supporting games that have had no controller support in the past.
Though initial impressions for platformers have been incredibly good with the Steam Controller.
angular graphics
Banned
Great impressions.
James Schall, Director Digital Distribution (US / Europe):
First impression: great to handle the beta controller, the touch pads are incredibly responsive and I would imagine that once used to it, it could deliver higher performance for the gamer.
Ichiro Lambe, Dejobaan Games president:
On how it feels: It feels comfortable, yet different from anything I've used before. They did a really good job of simulating physical controls through the haptic feedback -- ideally, this means that the controller will morph into whatever you need it to based on how you program it.
Great technical explanation from another thread.
So, I've seen people (not necessarily here) who can't quite figure out the advantage this control affords over a traditional thumbsticks, so I've created the following images to explain.
Thumbsticks work by giving the user control over acceleration of movement. The thumbsticks themselves don't actually control where your looking, but rather how much your view changes every tick. So here is a thumb stick that is centered for 4 hypothetical frames:
when the stick is centered, the degree of acceleration is 0, and you see that the direction the person is facing remains the same for all 4 frames. But if we tilt the stick slightly, like so:
now we see that we have a 15 degree change. So, in frame 1, we're still looking forward, then in frame 2, our view has shifted 15 degrees, then further and further until by frame 4, we're looking to our right. Now, we can push the stick further and make the rate at which our view changes increase in speed, like so:
now the change is 45 degrees. You see that, by frame 3, we're now looking to our right when, if we'd pushed the stick slightly less, it took us 4 frames. This is actually what we have control over, how fast the things change. but the fundamental flaw with this control method is you still have to wait until the game updates enough for you to face the desired direction. These thumbsticks have limits to their extents, so, for example, there is no way to push the stick far enough so that, by the very next frame, we're facing the complete opposite direction. There is always a few frames we have to wait.
Now, with touchpads (or with a mouse) we can directly select exactly which directly we want to face, on any given frame. It works like so:
you can see from left to right is actually a gradiant of positions which encompasses our view in 360 degrees. When we press in the middle, or don't press anything, we're looking forward. However, we can slide to different positions on the gradient and our view will match within the colored circle instantly:
with touch (and mouse) controls, we're not inputting the rate of change. We're inputting exactly where we want to look. That is the advantage mouse users have over controller users - they can instantly select any angle to use, where as controller users have to wait to get there. These touchpads afford the exact same advantage, without the need for a mouse.
Does that clear this up for anybody? Feel free to repost this anywhere else, btw.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/28009245/#Comment_28009245
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Lambe also says, "Within five minutes of picking it up, I went from newbie to controlling an FPS camera better than I'd ever done with a gamepad."
So it's really different, but it seems incredibly intuitive, at least for first person shooters.
why though, no one has even touched it yet
angular graphics
Banned
I don't know but they weren't too many. Also IO Interactive who have kept silent.
In camera control games like FPS/TPS and mouse-centric games, analog sticks only allow you to control direction and acceleration. The Steam controller will be much more accurate and intuitive. Should do wonders to allow comfy-couch play for the previously m+kb only library of games.
With all due respect, no way, is any touchpad player on laptop going to beat me on fps.
With a Mouse, yes. Of course, they will. But not with a touchpad. So what's different? Why are traditional touchpads so much more inferior to mouse and keyboard? Or is my initial idea, about traditional touchpads being way inferior to dual-stick just wrong?
Nonetheless, quite an interesting theory there.
CountAntonius
Member
Valve has earned that level of respect and because it is Valve it may actually be good.
It's worrying because it sounds we will see it on shelves in 2018.
There aren't many touchpads in a configuration that give the user immediate access to left and right click without also throwing off their aim. We don't know if the Steam Controller will be better or worse in this regard since there really isn't anything like it in use now.
I haven't even read the whole thread, but you've made at least three or four one-liner posts laughing and ridiculing it. Not enough positive reinforcement?
Yeah, the more I think about this, the more it seems that I have no use for it. I'm fine using a keyboard+mouse in the living room, so I don't think this has anything to offer me over an existing combo of 360 pad and kbm.
And since this is a sensitive thread, please understand that this is all speculation based on what I'm reading. Like that should even need to be said. I'm curious to feel the haptics for myself.
And since this is a sensitive thread, please understand that this is all speculation based on what I'm reading. Like that should even need to be said. I'm curious to feel the haptics for myself.
how do you not get excited reading that
Comparing what is being used in the Steam Controller and standard laptop trackpads is effectively useless.
While I don't have any metrics available, what is being used in the Steam Controller is significantly higher resolution, more responsive, and more accurate.
Not everyone is going to be in the target market for this device.
If you have a wireless keyboard and mouse available, then there is nothing stopping you from continuing to use that.
Yeah, I seriously doubt they would have went in this direction if it was non-responsive, limited and felt like shit to use.
Touchpads in regular laptops are p. terrible.
On the other hand, the touchpad on a macbook pro is super sweet, but the positioning makes it hard to use for gaming.
I disagree completely. They're using 3d printed prototype hardware before production begins. Firmware changes go on constantly and, as we see in the article, very quickly. This is not where the bulk of the hard work is.
The Librarian
Banned
More positive impressions. Valve seems to have really done their homework.
his post history is certainly, uh, focused.
angular graphics
Banned
They are quite different.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...the_Steam_Controller_Heres_what_they_said.php
I don't get why people aren't taking this into consideration. It's like they think Valve is run by idiots and hasn't put forward consistently great products for about 15 years now. They wouldn't make this sort of a change to the standard controller design without loads of testing.
It has been laughed at and ridiculed like crazy, so whats your point?
I'll give you the mac's touchpad. The Air's one just works. Still way way inferior to dual stick in my opinion, but far beyond all other laptop's touch pads.
FreddieQuell
Member
Once I read that the pad was using haptics, and once I started researching what they could do, I knew this had some crazy potential. We'll just have to see exactly what they end of implementing.
IISANDERII
Member
I was thinking Valve is insane to launch a Steamybox right as PS4 is coming out but after seeing the feedback for the Steamroller, this may be their ace-in-the-ass-hole.
soulassssns
Banned
I'll stick with my wired 360 controller or KB and M for PC games.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
But if its grippy wouldn't it make moving your thumbs around difficult. Thats one problem. With an analog stick the movement needs to smooth but the top of the stick needs to be grippy. How are they going to achieve that with one surface?
I'm not jumping to conclusions I'm just pointing out things I see that can be problematic. Anyway theres no point arguing since neither of us have used it so its all just things we see that we like or don't like but I doubt I will be getting hands on time with this controller anytime soon.
Dreams-Visions
Member
What?
The Librarian
Banned
The Macbook's touchpad is the best "mouse" I've ever used. Every time I use another computer I always feel gimped because I can't be as versatile with its mousepad.
The positive impressions, and my experience with the Macbook's touchpad, have me confident that a touch surface can work for gaming on a traditional controller if done right.
The positive impressions, and my experience with the Macbook's touchpad, have me confident that a touch surface can work for gaming on a traditional controller if done right.
You know, you could just have read the FAQ
I guess I'm just making sure that I'm not missing anything about what this controller can do.
I'm willing to make a bet with you that i could beat you with a touchpad, i would be willing to go a few rounds with you in a game. I find touchpads to be a much more precise mechanism then a traditional mouse, obviously the touchpad has some flaws but nothing that hinders my gameplay.
One of the stupidest analogies I've seen. The thing is this quote has been used so many times for products that get a lot of negative feedback that its just used out of context. Does anyone seriously think that this controller is anyway analogous to the first mass production car that was affordable. (hint: its not).
But...
This. Did you even read my original post for the context on why I used that specific quote? It should've made the above clear already.
(Besides, the quote actually kinda works the way you say is stupid too. If these trackpads are truly way more accurate than analogue sticks, the somewhat improved next-gen version of the latter could be seen as the 'faster horse' people asked for. Just adressing problems like dead zones, instead of truly designing a new and better way to move and aim. That wasn't how I intended the quote though.
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