Support NeoGAF

[ArkkAngel007]

Wait what, hardware specs now are not an issue?

That's not what is being said. What is being said is that we don't know what is going to be done with the hardware in the future. Most of this generation dealt with physics, graphics, and online integration.

Let's not start to move the argument from wanting the press to be more objective and transparent to now wanting them to deal in slippery slopes/conjecture.

To be fair, the PS4 is going to boast the best looking/behaving games at quality framerate. That doesn't mean that Xbox One isn't capable of 1080p/stable60fps on par with the PS4, but there will be differences in there to reach that parity as time goes on likely enough.

 

[daman824]

What is this nonsense? The XB1 and PS4 are both consoles with AMD parts. The difference between the two is that the latter has a better memory subsystem and GPU for gaming.

They're almost identical machines, one is just more powerful.

Whats your point?

 

[fallagin]

This will probably go viral. Just found this on youtube lol

Sesslers thoughts on Resolutiongate

Hahaha, that's great.

I still, like Sessler, he seems like a really cool guy. We just disagree on a couple points, but that is human.

Edit: What the fuck at that video description. Some people..

That is a real buzz kill.

 

[Espada]

The difference between 720 and 1080 is not 'minor'. Stop.

I'm having trouble uploading the 1080p render to imgur, but this is a shot rendered at 720p upscaled to 1080p. Mind you, image quality decreases further if you display this on a large screen (40"+ HDTV).

Whats your point?

they aren't going to spend a bunch of time and money on advanced calculations that can only work on PC and PS4

That this is nonsense. This isn't like generations prior where each platform had unique hardware that developers had to exert special effort to use. No, the consoles this time around are nigh-identical, with one more powerful than the other. We're already seeing the parity lie put to rest with two titles.

 

[reKon]

This will probably go viral. Just found this on youtube lol

Sesslers thoughts on Resolutiongate

Wtf at that video description though. I hate people.

 

[tranciful]

So an exclusive game then? I doubt a third party dev will completely max out the ps4. The best looking game on every console is first party.

...no. I'm referring to this sentiment:

After re watching the video, I don't think it was as much a defense of the xb1 as much as it was a defense of both next gen systems. As time goes on, resolutions will drop. But game design will improve. And ultimately, that is more important. I would rather play bf4 with 64 players at 900p or even 720p than play with 24 players at 1080p.

You're saying games will push the hardware more. Games running at 1080p on PS4 means PS4 has even more wiggle room. If you reduce the resolution to 720p on PS4 in order to get more out of the console, as you suggest will happen later in the cycle, you're going to have an even harder time getting it to run on Xbox One.

Also, I'd like to again highlight the ridiculous false choice people like you keep making:

I would rather play bf4 with 64 players at 900p or even 720p than play with 24 players at 1080p.

Most people would probably agree with you, but that's not what this is about. This is about playing the same game at a higher resolution or paying $100 more to play it at a lower resolution. PS4 isn't getting a lesser gameplay experience as a trade for the resolution boost. It's not one or the other. PS4 has more power, so it's not only capable of running the same game at higher resolution and with better performance (as we see with launch games), but PS4 also has more power to support higher player counts, more complex AI, larger levels, or whatever other game mechanic you want to put into a game. PS4 is capable of more everything, not just graphics. We don't have to pick gameplay or graphics -- it's a false choice and an awful argument to make.

edit: and yet you seem to make it

I would take the resolution hit in a second. It's not even a contest.

I would take the better resolution/performance and save myself $100. But maybe I'm crazy.

 

[daman824]

Runs at less than half the framerate of the 360 version at 720p.

Now say it ran at 480p 60fps. It wouldn't be as bad because you are getting a smoother framerate, but it is a significant difference in terms of image quality.

That is kind of where the xbox one is at right now. If you want to run a game at almost the same framerate as the ps4 you need to halve the resolution, or severely strip the game of assets and texture resolution and AA.

I would take the resolution hit in a second. It's not even a contest.

 

[Coolwhip]

Brought to you by Slim Jims and Microsoft.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

That's not what is being said. What is being said is that we don't know what is going to be done with the hardware in the future. Most of this generation dealt with physics, graphics, and online integration.

Let's not start to move the argument from wanting the press to be more objective and transparent to now wanting them to deal in slippery slopes/conjecture.

To be fair, the PS4 is going to boast the best looking/behaving games at quality framerate. That doesn't mean that Xbox One isn't capable of 1080p/stable60fps on par with the PS4, but there will be differences in there to reach that parity as time goes on likely enough.

Problem is there will never be true parity on any multiplat title that pushes the envelope. The "safe" ones, if developed for the lowest common denominator, will probably achieve parity. Any envelope pushing title on PS4 will always have to make sacrifices to run on XB1. It will either have a lower resolution, a lower framerate, reduced AI, reduced physics, SOMETHING. The sacrifices would be made.

Assuming ALL devs will progam to the lowest demoninator is untrue, because some will assuredly try to push as far as they can go and only reign back when they hit that wall. So we'll get the "best" (console) version of their game on the PS4, and a "reduced" version on XB1 where they sacrifice something to keep within the system's constraints.

I sure hope for MS's sake someone comes along and makes a ground breaking game for Kinect 2.0, because that is the only reason the system is coming in at an unacceptable price point for the performance we're getting from it.

Edit: would still like to know what OOST means from that guy that referenced me earlier, as in 'an award for best OOST of thread"??

 

[Froli]

Wtf at that video description though. I hate people.

I agree. Can anyone here make a better version? Please! just for laughs

 

[neither]

Brought to you by Doritos, Mountain Dew, and Microsoft.

Fixed.

 

[Chobel]

Do you have any idea how 854×480 upscaled to 1920x1080 looks?

The same as native 1080p because Xbox One has the magic upscaler.

Spoiler

/s

 

[daman824]

...no. I'm referring to this sentiment:

You're saying games will push the hardware more. Games running at 1080p on PS4 means PS4 has even more wiggle room. If you reduce the resolution to 720p on PS4 in order to get more out of the console, as you suggest will happen later in the cycle, you're going to have an even harder time getting it to run on Xbox One.

Also, I'd like to again highlight the ridiculous false choice people like you keep making:


Most people would probably agree with you, but that's not what this is about. This is about playing the same game at a higher resolution or paying $100 more to play it at a lower resolution. PS4 isn't getting a lesser gameplay experience as a trade for the resolution boost. It's not one or the other. PS4 has more power, so it's not only capable of running the same game at higher resolution and with better performance (as we see with launch games), but PS4 also has more power to support higher player counts, more complex AI, larger levels, or whatever other game mechanic you want to put into a game. PS4 is capable of more everything, not just graphics. We don't have to pick gameplay or graphics -- it's a false choice and an awful argument to make.

Sessler isn't making a console war argument in the video. The points he makes are valid for both the xb1 and ps4.

And on to the resolution thing, I'd bet money that the resolutions of xb1 games never drop below 720p. When a third party developer creates a game, they create it with both consoles in mind. And your post is a hypothetical. We could go on and on about what might happen. Or we could talk about what is happening.

 

[travisbickle]

Do you have any idea how 854×480 upscaled to 1920x1080 looks?

You mean up-rezed 1080p? it looks great.

 

[daman824]

Do you have any idea how 854×480 upscaled to 1920x1080 looks?

So you would rather play a game that demands 60fps to function properly at 20fps rendering it literally unplayable? Be my guest.

 

[Thrakier]

This whole circle jerk over resolution is one of stupidest things I've seen the internet at large bitch about in quite some time. If you care about resolution and framerate, you can get both even better with a PC. Consoles are about convenience, and the average consumer probably doesn't give a shit about a minor resolution difference compared to say, which one their friends are getting, or even just brand loyalty.

Are people just bitching because the press isn't bitching? What a surprise! The press is underplaying potential differences in two unreleased consoles until they hit the market. They weren't afraid to call Microsoft out on their shit when E3 came around and they were soundly trounced and made to look like fools, or in the subsequent fallout when they backpedaled on everything.

This is all just silly. The internet looking to bitch about something.

Why not just game in SD then at 20FPS, eh? It doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Espada]

Sessler isn't making a console war argument in the video. The points he makes are valid for both the xb1 and ps4.

And on to the resolution thing, I'd bet money that the resolutions of xb1 games never drop below 720p. When a third party developer creates a game, they create it with both consoles in mind. And your post is a hypothetical. We could go on and on about what might happen. Or we could talk about what is happening.

Ehh, I wouldn't make that bet. If framerate is king, or a developer doesn't want to sacrifice too many effects or AA, the resolution could definitely drop below 720p. Developers this gen seem to have noticed that they get little to no flak for dropping below that threshold.

 

[tranciful]

Sessler isn't making a console war argument in the video. The points he makes are valid for both the xb1 and ps4.

And on to the resolution thing, I'd bet money that the resolutions of xb1 games never drop below 720p. When a third party developer creates a game, they create it with both consoles in mind. And your post is a hypothetical. We could go on and on about what might happen. Or we could talk about what is happening.

...please don't lecture me on going hypothetical when I'm responding to your hypotheticals. It reminds me that I waste too much time on stupid debates on neoGAF.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Sessler isn't making a console war argument in the video. The points he makes are valid for both the xb1 and ps4.

And on to the resolution thing, I'd bet money that the resolutions of xb1 games never drop below 720p. When a third party developer creates a game, they create it with both consoles in mind. And your post is a hypothetical. We could go on and on about what might happen. Or we could talk about what is happening.

If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.... it's not a question of what might happen. It's a question of what most likely WILL happen.

A more complex, not to mention weaker and inferior, architecture will lead to some of the same problems PS3 faced.

 

[daman824]

I'm having trouble uploading the 1080p render to imgur, but this is a shot rendered at 720p upscaled to 1080p. Mind you, image quality decreases further if you display this on a large screen (40"+ HDTV).




That this is nonsense. This isn't like generations prior where each platform had unique hardware that developers had to exert special effort to use. No, the consoles this time around are nigh-identical, with one more powerful than the other. We're already seeing the parity lie put to rest with two titles.

Please point me to a specific post where I said that these consoles would hit parity.

I firmly believe we will continue to see AA and resolution differences throughout this gen.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

So Adam Sessler post E3:

-defends MS' DRM, says they have a messaging issue
-claims PS4 is more expensive than Xbone if you buy PS+ and Camera
-GTA V review: "I can imagine, 200 years from now, like our reading of Dickens, the game will be regarded as a catalog of our contemporary travails, an accelerated reality bearing more truth than just gazing at our own reflection."
-Twitter breakdown nr1: HDCP on PS4
-Twitter breakdown nr2: No free PS4 from Sony
-Downplays the graphical difference between the consoles

Also Adam Sessler post E3:

-slams Microsoft's marketing
-Enjoys the PS4 controller over the 360 and (IIRC) the Xbox One
-Applauds Sony's continued and growing support for Indies
-Stands by that neither company deserves preorders over promises that have fallen short in the past (and sort of are for this launch already)
-Praises and goes as far as getting really excited over Sony exclusives Killzone Shadow Fall and Resogun
-Does state that the Playstation 4 does have the better hardware, even if he has to have everyone explain to him why it does

We can cherry pick all we like, though I don't get what the GTA V review has to do with anything we're discussing here. I can point to the GoW:Ascension trophy rant and his propensity to put more focus on narrative than gameplay (English Major/Masters/whatever that he earned), but that just means that sometimes his opinions are shit and I need to disregard those parts.

This will probably go viral. Just found this on youtube lol

Sesslers thoughts on Resolutiongate

Fuck off with that shit. Maybe the video has points to it, but the title alone shows that YouTube should have better oversight than the POS automated copyright system that they have.

 

[daman824]

...please don't lecture me on going hypothetical when I'm responding to your hypotheticals. It reminds me that I waste too much time on stupid debates on neoGAF.

What hypotheticals were you responding to?

 

[Primedoughnut]

The trouble with gaming journalism is that it's wed to the industry it reports on too tightly..
and this is a problem for the us, the consumers, because the publishers, game makers and console manufacturers use this close bond as another form of marketing.

Sessler, and many of his peers rely solely on this industry to pay them a wage, give them freebies etc...

I'd like to know if (for example) Adam Sessler has a huge games library did he pay for it himself, or is most of it a perk of being in his job?

These people / websites / aren't going to rock the boat, because if the publishers etc don't like the way things are reported, then the advertising revenue could be cut etc...

*if* we really want unbiased video games journalism, then they have to be divorced from the industry their reporting on, no more freebies and no more advertisements from the publishers as their own means of funding...

which leads to one equivocal ending, we, the consumers must pay for it, and as I suspect that will not be popular with lots of people, then you have to (unfortunately) live in a world where game publishers and game journalists are in fact the same thing.

 

[daman824]

I would play the game on a device that is capable of delivering both the resolution and the framerate. Just in case you didn't know: There are alternatives to buying an Xbox.

What you are saying has nothing to do with my original point. And I'm not planning on buying an xb1 currently.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Sessler isn't making a console war argument in the video. The points he makes are valid for both the xb1 and ps4.

Yes, he is. His entire argument is "The Xbox One is still worthy of your attention, even if it is weaker, because I can't tell the difference, and games matter."

Of course, people would be insane to say they'd prefer to buy an Xbox One for multiplatform games, spending more to get less, so they're doing it under the guise of "It's all about the games, and up-rezzed 1080p is good enough"

 

[Jabba]

Where is Klepaks view, in the Ghosts review?

 

[Espada]

Please point me to a specific post where I said that these consoles would hit parity.

I firmly believe we will continue to see AA and resolution differences throughout this gen.

You're flat out saying developers won't leave the XB1 behind, that they won't spend time dolling up PC and PS4 versions over the XB1, etc... It's implicit in your posts. Large disparities between rendering resolution, framerate, and AA (among other things) cannot be called "insignificant".

We have two games performing much better on one platform than the other, and neither of them is a graphical showcase. If these games are already trying one console's hardware, it's not wrong to assume things will get worse as more demanding engines and techniques come down the line.

The trouble with gaming journalism is that it's wed to the industry it reports on too tightly..
and this is a problem for the us, the consumers, because the publishers, game makers and console manufacturers use this close bond as another form of marketing.

The problem is that there's no incentive for them to remove themselves from the publisher teat. Which leaves us with marketing and "reviewers" that are just marketers who think they're objective, unbiased, and uninfluenced. At least until their access privileges, review games, free consoles, etc... are threatened.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Problem is there will never be true parity on any multiplat title that pushes the envelope. The "safe" ones, if developed for the lowest common denominator, will probably achieve parity. Any envelope pushing title on PS4 will always have to make sacrifices to run on XB1. It will either have a lower resolution, a lower framerate, reduced AI, reduced physics, SOMETHING. The sacrifices would be made.

Assuming ALL devs will progam to the lowest demoninator is untrue, because some will assuredly try to push as far as they can go and only reign back when they hit that wall. So we'll get the "best" (console) version of their game on the PS4, and a "reduced" version on XB1 where they sacrifice something to keep within the system's constraints.

I sure hope for MS's sake someone comes along and makes a ground breaking game for Kinect 2.0, because that is the only reason the system is coming in at an unacceptable price point for the performance we're getting from it.

Edit: would still like to know what OOST means from that guy that referenced me earlier, as in 'an award for best OOST of thread"??

We're actually agreeing there. All I'm saying though is that we can be worried about resolution and fps at the moment, but that probably isn't going to be the issue in the next year. Now AA, shaders, lighting, and all of that we'll have to see what the people at Ubisoft and EA are going to do with it. There are going to be differences, but will we know how large and how that translates in a blatant presentation to the eye at that point? I don't know, and neither does anybody else.

And again, I find his opinion on the day 1 patch to be the bigger issue.

 

[daman824]

If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.... it's not a question of what might happen. It's a question of what most likely WILL happen.

A more complex, not to mention weaker and inferior, architecture will lead to some of the same problems PS3 faced.

ESRAM is significantly easier to use compared to cell. Nothing will overcome the pure spec difference though. It comes down to the games though. You would agree with me when I say that there were plenty of reasons people chose ps3 over xbox360 this gen right? Same goes for this gen. It's a bit hyperbolic to start preaching that xb1 games will be unplayable messes later this gen.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Yes, he is. His entire argument is "The Xbox One is still worthy of your attention, even if it is weaker, because I can't tell the difference, and games matter."

Of course, people would be insane to say they'd prefer to buy an Xbox One for multiplatform games, spending more to get less, so they're doing it under the guise of "It's all about the games, and up-rezzed 1080p is good enough"

He doesn't say or allude to all but in exception that the games are what matters. His point, plain and simple, is that resolution isn't what should be important.

Do I agree with him? Long run, yes, but right now NO because, at the moment, it's all that we have to go on regarding what these systems are providing to us until we actually see the gameplay and what developers aim to achieve with what they are given to work with.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

So, Sessler said some positive things about Sony. Given how well they did in general this isn't surprising.

But he made a huge amount of effort and went through some serious mental gymnastics to try and argue the PS4 actually cost more than the Xbox One. And on top of that, did some really creative wording in terms of the Xbox One's resolution, while contradicting some previous public statements of his in order to make it seem less bad.

Whatever his reasons, he's made a pretty active attempt to downplay the PS4 potential strengths and the XBO's potential weaknesses, going so far as to be borderline deceptive about it.

 

[Espada]

ESRAM is significantly easier to use compared to cell. Nothing will overcome the pure spec difference though. It comes down to the games though. You would agree with me when I say that there were plenty of reasons people chose ps3 over xbox360 this gen right? Same goes for this gen. It's a bit hyperbolic to start preaching that xb1 games will be unplayable messes later this gen.

Saying it comes down to the games is like saying water is wet. Not only is it a given, it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. Yes the water in both pools is wet, the issue is that one pool is murky and the other is clear.

We're just waiting to see whether the difference in quality will only grow, and there's nothing to indicate it won't.

 

[daman824]

Yes, he is. His entire argument is "The Xbox One is still worthy of your attention, even if it is weaker, because I can't tell the difference, and games matter."

Of course, people would be insane to say they'd prefer to buy an Xbox One for multiplatform games, spending more to get less, so they're doing it under the guise of "It's all about the games, and up-rezzed 1080p is good enough"

No, after mentioning Cod: Ghosts, he tries to make the point that 1080p shouldn't be this focused on standard for any publisher. He states that publishers should focus less on achieving 1080p and more on improving the games design. Again, his point has holes in it. But he did say he will elaborate later. So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Battlefield 4 doesn't run at 1080p on either next gen console. But I wouldn't take a reduced player count to fix that.

 

[FeiRR]

It's a bit hyperbolic to start preaching that xb1 games will be unplayable messes later this gen.

But they won't improve if they hit the ceiling right now at the beginning of the gen. I want better games in 2-3 years, not the same games. I want physics-oriented engines. How can you add any features in future if your console design is bottlenecked from the beginning? How can you use compute if your ESRAM is already full with 720/900p framebuffer? Drivers may improve, hardware can't. X1 is stuck with that lame design for the next few years. That is the real failure of design, not that their drivers struggle at launch. X1 is already technologically obsolete before it was even released.

 

[Mael]

And just like that game journalism proves, once again, that they have no integrity.
After selling us for the last 5 years resolution and performance over everything.
All of a sudden it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[daman824]

You're flat out saying developers won't leave the XB1 behind, that they won't spend time dolling up PC and PS4 versions over the XB1, etc... It's implicit in your posts. Large disparities between rendering resolution, framerate, and AA (among other things) cannot be called "insignificant".

We have two games performing much better on one platform than the other, and neither of them is a graphical showcase. If these games are already trying one console's hardware, it's not wrong to assume things will get worse as more demanding engines and techniques come down the line.



The problem is that there's no incentive for them to remove themselves from the publisher teat. Which leaves us with marketing and "reviewers" that are just marketers who think they're objective, unbiased, and uninfluenced. At least until their access privileges, review games, free consoles, etc... are threatened.

No, I'm saying that developers aren't going to be making completely different games for the xb1 and ps4. The multiplatform games will be nearly identical in all aspects (ai, scene density, poly counts). And there will be varying resolution and AA differences. Objectively, different resolutions can close the power gap quickly.

 

[Quadraphonic]

No, after mentioning Cod: Ghosts, he tries to make the point that 1080p shouldn't be this focused on standard. He states that publishers should focus less on achieving 1080p and more on improving the games design. Again, his point has holes in it. But he did say he will elaborate later. So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Battlefield 4 doesn't run at 1080p on either next gen console. But I wouldn't take a reduced player count to fix that.

You realize this is far from his first video downplaying the PS4, right? If this was a one-off video, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Primedoughnut]

The ESRam problem will always be a problem for the XB1..

Even if IW are saying next time round COD on XB1 will be 1080p, it's not necessarily the same..

Sure COD 2015 on the XB1 could look like COD 2014 as it is now on the PS4, but refinements don't happen in a vacuum.. developers will be pushing the PS4 just as much as the XB1... for all we know (and I'm not stating this as a fact, just an opinion) COD 2015 on the PS4 could look like KZ : Shadowfall does now....

The power difference will always remain, and imho there will never be parity between the consoles where 3rd party games are concerned...

sorry for going slightly off topic...

 

[Froli]

With all this controversy, I think what's important for me right now is how durable the new generation console is and it must be pro consumer. That's just me

 

[daman824]

You realize this is far from his first video downplaying the PS4, right? If this was a one-off video, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I thought we were discussing this video. In which he even admits that the 1080p expectations are partially Microsofts fault. You can bring in the other video and we can discuss that too though (I might have to sleep soon).

 

[ArkkAngel007]

So, Sessler said some positive things about Sony. Given how well they did in general this isn't surprising.

But he made a huge amount of effort and went through some serious mental gymnastics to try and argue the PS4 actually cost more than the Xbox One. And on top of that, did some really creative wording in terms of the Xbox One's resolution, while contradicting some previous public statements of his in order to make it seem less bad.

Whatever his reasons, he's made a pretty active attempt to downplay the PS4 potential strengths and the XBO's potential weaknesses, going so far as to be borderline deceptive about it.

He didn't contradict. They were the same points: Fuck the resolution, what are you giving us to play with? That's where the focus he has felt should be, yet that superficial detail is all that the PR and apparently the gamers seem to care about.

It was just a point to say yeah, we expect them to look great and run better this generation, but what are you actually going to do for us to make us want to buy your games? And this time around, it was yes, one system is stronger than the other, but why are we caring more about that than the games themselves?

I don't think it was an active move to downplay the resolution difference, though I also believe some outlets are under NDAs regarding the Xbox One and have to present their opinions in certain ways to avoid breaking them. Rather, I think he just doesn't understand why, just like with the Day One patches, these are actually issues and what they indicate to us, which he really didn't address at all.

 

[daman824]

But they won't improve if they hit the ceiling right now at the beginning of the gen. I want better games in 2-3 years, not the same games. I want physics-oriented engines. How can you add any features in future if your console design is bottlenecked from the beginning? How can you use compute if your ESRAM is already full with 720/900p framebuffer? Drivers may improve, hardware can't. X1 is stuck with that lame design for the next few years. That is the real failure of design, not that their drivers struggle at launch. X1 is already technologically obsolete before it was even released.

The Xbox one has not been maxed out yet. And neither has the PS4.

 

[Copenap]

He doesn't say or allude to all but in exception that the games are what matters. His point, plain and simple, is that resolution isn't what should be important.

Do I agree with him? Long run, yes, but right now NO because, at the moment, it's all that we have to go on regarding what these systems are providing to us until we actually see the gameplay and what developers aim to achieve with what they are given to work with.

This point of view is still terrible though. People say it's about the games but when 90% of these said games run better on PS4 it doesn't matter?

Then People say they choose the console based and exclusives but that is only viable when third party games are (almost) equal on both systems but they are not. Non-exclusives make up what? 90% of games? These are the games people buy the consoles for and when most of them run better/prettier on the PS4 the solution tonthe "it's about the games"-problem is the PS4.

 

[avaya]

The paid for journalists are going to carry the water for MS and virtually act like astroturfers (they are in all but name) till the bottom falls out of MS' strategy - i.e. If PS4 runs a train on the Bone, and from all indications it will, these guys will be scrambling to the other side since MS no longer has anything to hurt them with.

MS is the emperor with no clothes and these guys are hedging, not wanting to piss off their master.

These people are a joke. The entire tech press is, my sister works for Time and she says they will shill for anyone that pays. Standard.

 

[Espada]

No, I'm saying that developers aren't going to be making completely different games for the xb1 and ps4. The multiplatform games will be nearly identical in all aspects (ai, scene density, poly counts). And there will be varying resolution and AA differences. Objectively, different resolutions can close the power gap quickly.

Once again you're trying to dazzle me with the obvious. Multiplatform developers make sure their game can run on all target platforms. You'd be a fool to think concessions won't be made. We had a far smaller power gap this generation and we got games that performed markedly better on one than the other.

That last line is hogwash. Battlefield 4 is running with higher average framerates, a host of features like AA and AO, all while doing it at a resolution 50% higher than the Xbox 1 version. The resolution didn't close the power gap. And this is a cross-gen launch title, among the least demanding titles these consoles will ever run.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

ESRAM is significantly easier to use compared to cell. Nothing will overcome the pure spec difference though. It comes down to the games though. You would agree with me when I say that there were plenty of reasons people chose ps3 over xbox360 this gen right? Same goes for this gen. It's a bit hyperbolic to start preaching that xb1 games will be unplayable messes later this gen.

Oh no I don't really think they'll ever be an unplayable mess. I just think that it was a bit bone-headed to make a weaker system that's ALSO more complex. If anything, make a weaker system but make it incredibly easy to program for or a much stronger system that's harder to program for. There's very little incentive to figure out the ins and outs of a more complex architecture if you know that no matter how good you get at using the architecture, you're still going to run into power restraints.

Of course I'm thinking more of 2015-2016 and beyond. For the next two years devs will be focusing more on optimization than they will be on pushing boundaries.

At this point literally the ONLY reasons to get an XB1 beyond not wanting to leave Gamerscore or friend circles behind are exclusives, because if you're buying a multiplat game you're going to be paying more for less.

The trump card might be Live. If everything they're saying about their 300,000 servers and such pans out and Xbox Live gets better (rather than worse like some rumors), then they could still compete by saying "Yeah, the graphics are slightly weaker, but the gameplay is there. The multiplayer is there. If you care about the experience beyond just what you see on screen, it's there".

If, however, PS+ also becomes equal to or better than Xbox Live, it will be a perfect storm of higher price, weaker hardware, worse multiplats, and only the same or worse multiplayer.

Unfortunately everything beyond graphics is speculation at this point, and since graphics are a direct result of the system's power, there's a good chance that graphics disparity now will equate to gameplay and level design disparity later. Not gamebreaking or unplayable disparity the likes of Bayonetta, but disparity nonetheless.

 

[Ovek]

The gaming press are hitting new lows, personally I didn't link it could get any lower but Jesus it really is getting painful to read (not that I read it anymore) and watch.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

You realize this is far from his first video downplaying the PS4, right? If this was a one-off video, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Far from /=/ one other comment in a video. And people were on his case from the very beginning too. There's no such thing as benefit of the doubt on GAF. And for good reason in most cases.

But they won't improve if they hit the ceiling right now at the beginning of the gen. I want better games in 2-3 years, not the same games. I want physics-oriented engines. How can you add any features in future if your console design is bottlenecked from the beginning? How can you use compute if your ESRAM is already full with 720/900p framebuffer? Drivers may improve, hardware can't. X1 is stuck with that lame design for the next few years. That is the real failure of design, not that their drivers struggle at launch. X1 is already technologically obsolete before it was even released.

Why would they hit the ceiling now? It's highly doubtful that 720/900p is the framebuffer for the ESRAM. They made a lot of recent changes, as well as boasting a different architecture than the PS4. That's just a foolish assumption this early on given how far we've seen games come on the past two generations.

The Xbox One will likely hit 1080p/60fps down the road. However, the question is when it reaches that point, a) has something been lost to reach there and, if not, b) where will it hit the ceiling in development behind the PS4?

 

[Always-honest]

Come on Adam...

 

[RE_Player]

I love how journalists like to say the Xbox One tools will get better so we should expect it to be on par in the coming years. I'm sure Sony is going to have a thumb up their ass and not improve the PS4's dev tools after launch.