HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Some people like trading a shiny they happened upon for one they actually want.
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Pokémon X/Y Online Battle Exploit - "Battle Analyser"
- Thread starter UltimateIke
- Start date
Why would you having a shiny make me unhappy with mine? Only reason I can see is that mine wasn't actually all that desirable in the first place.
If they're spitting them out via external programs they can easily make an extra one for your legit one. It's harder through instacheck, but you can just ask around for someone with the correct value for your perfect shiny. In the end, you get what you want, and nobody suffers. Yay?
This makes me sad and is exactly why i'll never get into competitive poke'mon. Until the game is on a server where no one can manipulate it I'll just play the game locally with friends and beat all of the standard content. To many good games that don't have silly communities for me to justify playing something where people devalue every aspect of it.
Can't really complain though as Poke'mon still gives me 50+ hours of pure joy.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
So in the end, you still have to use external programs to cheat the game for what you want? People are still taking their time to make these clones; if they are churning them out, the only way you'd get one is if they find value in snatching legit Pokemon from the market and giving you their cloned ones, or they are really nice.
I'm not saying you'd be unhappy, I'm saying that your Pokemon loses it's strength within trades. If you're not into trading shinys, great for you, but people do trade shinys.
theprodigy
Member
there is no other competitive game that requires you to spend time after beating the main game and unlocking everything just to have the best options available to you
sounds like you just don't like competitive gaming
Hours Left
Member
Stuff like this is what has always made me turn away from the online aspects of this series.
People are always abusing the system.
People are always abusing the system.
I love competitive gaming, I used to play Smash competitively and would actually travel around the nation for tournaments. A close friend of mine is like 2nd best in AZ for Marvel vs Capcom 3. Just because someone has a different view of yours on Poke'mon doesn't mean they blanket statement don't like something, that's silly.
theprodigy
Member
just because you have played other games competitively does not shield you from criticism regarding competitive play, especially when you falsely generalize said community
yeah well my feelings are hurt by RNG shinies
Sure, but the criticism is, 'sounds like you just don't like competitive gaming.'
I mean I guess a random internet person can know more about me than I do, but I actually highly value competitive skill and competitive gaming. Since I don't have time to explain my life story or my personal views on competitive gaming, I thought that would help. My bad?
To give you more perspective:
I find Dive Kick a lazy man's fighting game. I just think people should be all-in or they should go home. If you don't value making poke'mon legitmately then it's hard to take those people seriously as serious competitors. As such I can't take the whole scene seriously.
I'm also surrounded by people that are dedicated to specific games to the point that they don't mind requesting time off from work to train with the best players in their particular game if they happen to be in town. I respect dedication, not people that are too lazy to put time in the 'the game they love/think they love.'
Since this is a thread about battle exploits I kind of thought this whole time that you were arguing about hacked Pokemon as they relate to battling. I'm sorry you feel that your Pokemon lost their value but if what you really value is a legitimate Pokemon I'm sure you can still find a market with other like minded people.
theprodigy
Member
opinion automatically invalidated, Divekick is hype
also do you think Pokemon players can just waltz in and win Worlds or something without practice
PreyingShark
Member
I get all my mons legitly. I hate actual hacks with a passion. I also LOVE my mons. However, I also believe that mons are data worth $0.00. I think the current "Pokemon Economy" is absolutely retarded and I have no qualms helping to destroy it. (Not that I can. Stop worrying so much,)
On-Topic: This exploit's the devil.
On-Topic: This exploit's the devil.
Oh come on!!
"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only-"
"Yeah, I just used a program that showed me every move you did, and I countered appropriately."
"Dammit!"
I was okay with the Eggsploit program since that just cut to the chase of getting a shiny or perfect IV mon. This is just stupid. Guess I'll just battle Gaffers from now on until the (hopefully) update.
"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only-"
"Yeah, I just used a program that showed me every move you did, and I countered appropriately."
"Dammit!"
I was okay with the Eggsploit program since that just cut to the chase of getting a shiny or perfect IV mon. This is just stupid. Guess I'll just battle Gaffers from now on until the (hopefully) update.
So if people used a code to unlock all the characters in Melee rather than play through all the single player, you'd say they weren't serious competitors and should just go home. Even though they would take time out of their schedule to play with the best when they were in town?
theprodigy
Member
Until the system can identify people that cheat or don't cheat, I personally have no view on this and won't until all exploits are removed. I simply value games where players have to be dedicated to win. I don't think it's possible to know 100% for sure in Poke'mon if that's the case, so it's like, 'meh.' Though, they very well might need to be.
I'm sure hundreds of thousands of people are super super dedicated, but until the system is fixed. I personally have no interest.
I don't think that's comparable. So no, but seriously what Smasher hasn't unlocked all the characters at least once? That's just lazy.
Shinies have no bearing on battle performance. If you want to talk about how shiny hacking devalues shinies generally I'll be bound to agree with you. However, given how easy it is to train up a team of perfect Pokemon (I don't even take the competitive scene seriously and I have perfect mons because they're so easy to get), I don't care where you got that fakemon as long as it can exist legitimately. I can still win if I can outplay you. On the other hand, this program takes the most important part of Pokemon battling, the mindgames, and tosses it out of the window. It is on a whole different level compared to hacking in shitty alternate colors for kicks.
How is it not comparable? There's one mode of play where the actual multiplayer happens. There's a bunch of content to grind through to get to that stage. Most players I know at a high level grab their Pokemon from friends who breed/catch them for them. Why must battling skill be linked to 30 hours of biking back and forth to be considered legitimate?
Really is a shame. Was hoping people wouldn't spread this around as exposure is actually the worst thing. I know that Nintendo have been aware of it for a few days.
It really is a shame though, they went through such trouble to stop hacking and RNG abuse, to the point of banning past gen capture Pokémon in all tournaments announced so far, just for stuff like this to happen
It really is a shame though, they went through such trouble to stop hacking and RNG abuse, to the point of banning past gen capture Pokémon in all tournaments announced so far, just for stuff like this to happen
Little Green Yoda
Member
Is this exploit/hack exclusive to Gen 6? Or am I going to have to deal with this BS on Gen 5 wifi too?
I'll be honest and say, I think you'd be moving targets or I'd be moving targets in each other's eyes, but fundamentally it's different because one is game where you have to physically put in inputs and one is a game more about the setup than the execution. In so far as when we both play fox they have the same move set and have access to the same moves the entire time and there's no way to change that.
Poke'mon move sets obviously change player to player, player experience to player experience.
So fundamentally I think your perspective already has a poor foundation (if you think it's comparable) and like wise you probably think the same. So I'd rather just say, let's agree to disagree.
I don't have a problem with people playing poke'mon "competitively," I just wanted to let people know that if you wonder why the serious scene isn't larger. I mentioned part of the reason (whether you think it's legitimate or not.)
Just Gen VI at the moment. It only exists because Gen 5 is filled with hacks and cheats while Gen 6 was pure
Quoting this for the new page since everyone ignored it. This situation sucks, but at least we may have a fighting chance to stop this.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Is it safe to assume that the only way to get around this exploit program is a patch? Think there'll be a cat-and-mouse game of patching?
I'm also interested in the counter-checking program.
I'm also interested in the counter-checking program.
PreyingShark
Member
Oh, gonna assume GF also knows then. Here's to hoping for a patch!
All they need to do is encrypt the signal with a similar level of encryption as the 3DS and 3DS games themselves. Easily done via a patch (and Mario Kart has proven that you can require a patch to go online) and it would not only block this, but would be able to block any means of people implanting Pokémon from the game.
At the moment, people have been able to read their Pokémon's data due to the lack of encrypted communication, but haven't been able to implant them into the game again which is why the game is still hack free. If they encrypted communication, it would likely prevent this as well.
Though I agree how you build the character is important, I don't understand why the process of doing so needs to be done in a specific way. It has no outcome on the match and there is no skill measured here. I'm saying this as someone who has spent countless hours involved with both the competitive Pokemon and Smash community.
And I know this is off topic but could you please just type Pokemon or Pokémon? The "Poke'mon" thing is really distracting x.x
Battling skill has nothing to do with breeding and the time it may take.
But if you're not willing to take some time to breed you Pokemons, why even bother buy the game instead of playing on Showdown, it is part of the game, and if you don't like it there are several totally legit ways to either reduce the time necessary, or avoid it completely.
Personally im even surprised that Nintendo even allows Showdown to exist past the database and team building/preview aspect of it, the battle aspect completely substitutes itself to an aspect of their games and even uses sprites ripped directly from it.
That Battle analyser is bullshit, and I hope they do something about it, but even if they put some kind of encryption what does prevent the program to be updated to decrypt it ?
Because Showdown isn't fully accurate, doesn't feature the same pool of players, and doesn't emulate the same environment as in-game battles making for a poor practice substitute. You can pick up some pretty crappy habits on Showdown. It's a great prototyping tool but IMO not a very good one for serious practice.
Pokémon is not just about battles, and battles killer. It's about training the Pokémon to be the very best. As such, using in-game methods is the best way.
I mean hell, they've essentialy blocked RNG abused Pokémon from all tournaments next year, and I don't see them removing the block any time soon.
They clearly want you to breed, train and battle a certain way.
In a fighting game there is no way for a player to skip 'experience' or time investment to get good. They just have to be dedicated. I just think communities where players don't have to work hard to get the same results as players that do work hard is going to create a community I don't want to get too heavily engaged with. (I had a similar issue with Brawl losing technical skill features that Melee had. Made player skill gaps not nearly as significant.)
In terms of the game there is no difference, but in terms of the personality of the people, I think there is. I think fundamentally there has to be, that has to change the interpersonal dynamic of the people within the community. Just seems lame all around.
There is no way to skip time investment in getting good at Pokemon either. There's no technical skill in Pokemon, but there's still quite a bit of strategy involved.
Though if you're one of those people who complain because people don't need to learn to L-Cancel even though it's literally something you do every single time you use an aerial, then I think we are definitely on two trains of thought. I disagree with barriers to entry being good for the health of a competitive game. I believe in high skill ceilings, but I don't believe in arbitrary blocks that make it harder for new players to get into the game with no strategic gameplay value.
SkullHydra
Member
This is really sad. I was finally starting to enjoy battling online, and this happens. People cloning Pokémon doesn't really bother me too much, as their Pokémon can't be any more powerful than it would otherwise. (Although I'll personally never do it) RNG? I tend to disagree with it, but yet again, it's not going to be any more powerful than a skillfully bred Pokémon. But knowing what I'm going to do each turn? That literally breaks the competitive game. Learning to predict enemy patterns is part of what makes playing online so fun! Knowing that any opponent you face could be cheating to see what moves you'll use will ruin all of it. I'll never have that satisfying loss knowing that my opponent skillfully countered my moves, since there will always be the possibility that they cheated to win. =/
I guess I'll be taking a break until this gets patched... or only play against people I know will play fairly. This is a sad day.
I guess I'll be taking a break until this gets patched... or only play against people I know will play fairly. This is a sad day.
There are no hacks though...all this, and the other XY stuff, does is read the transmissions. It doesn't alter anything so nothing is hacked, it just gives an unfair advantage.
Starwolf_UK
Member
The only problem is I would imagine you have to be able to use the virtual wi-fi hotspot to be able to use this counter measure meaning having a compatible set-up (no mac OS, no win 7 starter).
Apparently some VGC qualifiers will use Wi-fi play so it would con players out of qualifying for the VGC. Worst thing is some players that made it could be noticeably skill deficient (even if you did have good prediction skills, having no need to hone them due to using a program that does it for you would erode them).
Isn't weather inducing based on the speed stat where slower comes out last?
Also, if you can see the entire team before a single move is made the actual move picked does not become important (if you go for a surprise moveset and the moves are known it is not a surprise so is usually ineffective).
At the same time many people were wondering why so many people ran the timer right down every turn and were getting rather frustrated with it taking so long to finish any matches. Though that common practice probably predated this program and was done just because they can.
The game itself was not hacked, yes. But calling the people who developed this "hackers" isn't to far off. They grabbed data obviously not intended to be grabbed by anything but the game and managed to interpret it. Hackers in my book.
Btw. since this data is unencrypted, would it theoretically be possible to alter the data before sending it back to the game? Changing the opponent's move etc.
Wolf Akela
Member
Depends on how they sync data between two players, and the structure of the network itself. I dont know if battles are P2P. If so, and player A deals damage, but player B interprets otherwise and tells A "your attack missed", then it falls to however GameFreak handles that. The match could automatically drop, the game could just freeze, the game may just go on with unsynchronized battle data which can cause the match to just get stuck ( B sees A as dead, but A is actually alive, B stuck inside match forever waiting for A's next move, but A already exited the match as winner/loser).
Handshakes do prevent this, but if the data being unencrypted is true, then I'm not confident that they put much thought into security.
So yes it's *theoretically* possible but it all depends how the client or server handles the data. I dont see how it can not be solved via game and server patches unless the entire design of the code is awful.
No. That's not possible. The handshake & checksums would prevent it.
KittenMaster
Member
I personally don't care about whether or not legit hacked Pokemon and whatnot are considered cheating, and even if they were there is absolutely no comparison to being able to look at an opponent's moveset during battle and eliminating a lot of prediction and surprise.
Hope this get fixed soon. I never play online (and cheating got nothing to do with that, I'm just not the competitive type), but it always annoys me to see people going to such lengths just to ruin everybody's fun. It's not just some private hack for personal gain in SP, but something really meant to cheat.
As someone earlier pointed out, pokemon is about battling and trading.
This program ruins battling.
Hacked pokemon ruins trading.
SoulUnison
Banned
Every thread like this seems to come down to "My particular brand of cheating isn't cheating, because I'm a special snowflake who's only annoyed by the specific things I'm annoyed by."
if you aren't using only the game to play the game, you're cheating. And obviously I'm not talking about strategy guides or reading up on game mechanics. I mean if you're using the game in way it wasn't meant to be used, or you're glitching out the game to clone things you're supposed to be working for, or you're using third-party programs to give you a breeding or battle advantage, you're cheating, end of story.
I'm so tired of hearing about how "This thing takes so much time and effort, and I deserve to have it immediately because I'm me."
if you aren't using only the game to play the game, you're cheating. And obviously I'm not talking about strategy guides or reading up on game mechanics. I mean if you're using the game in way it wasn't meant to be used, or you're glitching out the game to clone things you're supposed to be working for, or you're using third-party programs to give you a breeding or battle advantage, you're cheating, end of story.
I'm so tired of hearing about how "This thing takes so much time and effort, and I deserve to have it immediately because I'm me."