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[Woorloog]

I like how they handle magic within Dragon Age universe actually. Magic being a volatile and dangerous thing, like should've been. But yes, magic being very dangerous should've little pressence, but more impactful to the universe as whole. They kinda overdid it with Circle of Magi quest, but even moreso with the shit that is DA2.

Magic is the least of the world's issues. I just expected it to be more like low fantasy, ie less magic, non-humans and generally fantastic elements in the first place (don't give a shit about magic's power, ASOIAF while being low fantasy has...had powerful magic).

EDIT and i like DA2 far more than DAO. This is due to its narrative structure, it is less like the standard BW plot.

 

[Steel]

Ahh cool, thanks for the link. I can see what you mean, though now I'm unsure what I use to define generic fantasy as a label. I mean Skyrim had that cool jellyfish cave that was pretty unique, but I would still say that game was somewhat generic? Maybe it's more the races and ideas of how they interact to me? I dunno.

Some of those places look awesome though, shame I didn't enjoy the game enough to get to them, and any time I've tried to go back I couldn't make myself. Does it get much better after the start gameplay-wise or is combat just as annoying throughout?

Combat is annoying(hit or miss real time dice rolling), though the variety of spells and skills in the game is much greater than oblivion and skyrim. Enchanting is also a bit more interesting, owing to the fact that you can enchant your own stuff governed by a skill.

If you want something that has off the wall races and ideas though, Morrowind absolutely delivers that. Dunmer politics and culture as portrayed in morrowind has got to be the most unique I've ever seen in a game, period.

In either case, there are a lot of mods out there for morrowind(Like the video I showed you that makes the game look miles better), there may be some that improve the gameplay as well.

 

[Slamtastic]

Looks like WoW.

Do you consider WoW generic because it has Orcs and Elves, or does the artstyle it has make it distinct to you?

 

[Neuromancer]

If I don't like it, it's generic.

 

[Aiustis]

I think of it as most medieval tolkieneque fantasy. Typically the stuff I won't play.

 

[Steel]

If I don't like it, it's generic.

Not true. You can like something and still think it's generic. I like Kingdom's of Amalur and I can see its trope ridden with a lot of generic points in its plot.

 

[Novocaine]

Dungeon Siege is pretty generic. But I did enjoy the 3rd one quite a bit.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Personally, I find most Western RPG's generic visually. It seems like so many of them rarely deviate from the traditional D&D or Lord of the Rings settings or style. They often use the same character-types/classes, music, art-style, weapons, clothes/armor-type, medieval settings with with castles, knights, goblins, elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. That is one of the things I really appreciate more from JRPG's.

 

[Dark Octave]

Anything that's basically D&D in terms of setting.

I feel the same. This is what I thought of Dragon Age. I would probably use the term "standard" over "generic" though.

 

[Shengar]

If I don't like it, it's generic.

Well, I like Dungeon Siege II, Dragon's Dogma, and Oblivion (sans Shivering Isles) but I admit them being generic
They're pretty fun for being time waster and entertainment, but not something that could hooked me long to the game itself like Souls Series. Here we hope that Obsidian show their superior writing skills, and turned "generic fantasy tropes" into something different.

 

[Woorloog]

Do you consider WoW generic because it has Orcs and Elves, or does the artstyle it has make it distinct to you?

What? I was commenting on how Skyrim looks after oilpaint textures/shaders.
I said NOTHING about WoW being generic or not.

Warcraft too has very generic base but it did play with the tropes a lot, especially in Warcraft 3, though that one's true strength were its characters, not the world.
WoW naturally builds upon this but due to its theme-park MMO nature, it has grown to be a fantasy kitchen sink (though i can't remember whether it has actual kitchen sinks, referred or seen).
Is it generic? There's nothing quite comparable... but neither is it really very original, mostly taking things from other places and slightly tweaking them at most.

 

[Essay]

My problem is that most "generic fantasy" seems to suppose a very Platonic/western concept of spirituality that really irks me as a very "non-spiritual" person with a background in history and eastern philosophical traditions. When me and my world view engage a typical work of high-fantasy, there's just no reaction. Dark Souls at least had Buddhist undertones and a lot of ambiguity for my imagination to play around with. Most other works of fantasy just feel... prescriptive.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

My problem is that most "generic fantasy" seems to suppose a very Platonic/western concept of spirituality that really irks me as a very "non-spiritual" person with a background in history and eastern philosophical traditions. When me and my world view engage a typical work of high-fantasy, there's just no reaction. Dark Souls at least had Buddhist undertones and a lot of ambiguity for my imagination to play around with. Most other works of fantasy just feel... prescriptive.

Can you elaborate more on this?

 

[Woorloog]

My problem is that most "generic fantasy" seems to suppose a very Platonic/western concept of spirituality that really irks me as a very "non-spiritual" person with a background in history and eastern philosophical traditions. When me and my world view engage a typical work of high-fantasy, there's just no reaction. Dark Souls at least had Buddhist undertones and a lot of ambiguity for my imagination to play around with. Most other works of fantasy just feel... prescriptive.

You ask me, most (western) fantasy (or science fiction for that matter) works ignore religion and spirituality too much.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

If I don't like it, it's generic.

I expected better from you.

 

[Steel]

My problem is that most "generic fantasy" seems to suppose a very Platonic/western concept of spirituality that really irks me as a very "non-spiritual" person with a background in history and eastern philosophical traditions. When me and my world view engage a typical work of high-fantasy, there's just no reaction. Dark Souls at least had Buddhist undertones and a lot of ambiguity for my imagination to play around with. Most other works of fantasy just feel... prescriptive.

As an atheist I frankly generally don't care how much a video game interfaces with religion. The entire game could be about religion and I wouldn't care if it's interesting. Heck, religion in general is a good read as fiction.

 

[Neuromancer]

I expected better from you.

Sorry =\

 

[Woorloog]

As an atheist I frankly generally don't care how much a video game interfaces with religion. The entire game could be about religion and I wouldn't care if it's interesting. Heck, religion in general is a good read as fiction.

I can't figure out what you're saying. Religion can be interesting, or that you don't care about the game if it has religion?
(Time to go sleep when i can't understand what i'm reading...)

 

[Raonak]

Basically anything that draws straight from Tolkein's writings without any distinguishing traits.

That. basically high fantasy.

That said, they can still be good games. but It always feel a tad dissapointing that the art team didn't try something unique. Especially since a LOT of wrpgs use the high fantasy art direction. It feels a lot like the modern militiary shooter setting that has become super tired.

That's one of the things JRPGs do well, often having very unique worlds.

 

[Toxi]

My problem is that most "generic fantasy" seems to suppose a very Platonic/western concept of spirituality that really irks me as a very "non-spiritual" person with a background in history and eastern philosophical traditions. When me and my world view engage a typical work of high-fantasy, there's just no reaction. Dark Souls at least had Buddhist undertones and a lot of ambiguity for my imagination to play around with. Most other works of fantasy just feel... prescriptive.

How did you feel about

Spoiler

God either creating the Old One or turning out to be the Old One

in Demon's Souls?

Here's the description from the Talisman of Beasts:

Spoiler

An old wooden amulet resembling the Old One. It can utilize both miracles and spells. The symbol of God was nothing more than the Image of the Old One.

 

[Woorloog]

Basically anything that draws straight from Tolkein's writings without any distinguishing traits.

Ironically Tolkien's works are not very generic, for they're deconstructive often too.
Sure, they do codify many now-standard tropes but still...

I'd say better definition for generic as you're thinking it might be: "Like Tolkien without being Tolkien".

 

[Sinfamy]

Any game that requires me to gather 3 spider eggs, and 5 ant eater legs.

 

[water_wendi]

A generic fantasy setting is when you can briefly look at a setting and its characters and discern almost exactly who and what things are with no previous knowledge of that particular world.

Goblins are bad because they are goblins.

Orcs like to kill stuff and go on rampages because thats what orcs do.

Paladins are beacons of holy light.

Blah blah blah you know it when you see it.

 

[Finaika]

Anything that rips-off World of Warcraft.

 

[E92 M3]

I prefer a dark Fantasy setting like in The Witcher or A Song of Fire and Ice, but I generally think fantasy is generic when the different races are orcs, elves, dwarves, and humans.

 

[Woorloog]

A generic fantasy setting is when you can briefly look at a setting and its characters and discern almost exactly who and what things are with no previous knowledge of that particular world.

Goblins are bad because they are goblins.

Orcs like to kill stuff and go on rampages because thats what orcs do.

Paladins are beacons of holy light.

Blah blah blah you know it when you see it.

Very good definition this one, i think. Not being surprising.
Yet do take account the small things, major things can be easily recognizable while everything else being something else.

 

[Steel]

I can't figure out what you're saying. Religion can be interesting, or that you don't care about the game if it has religion?
(Time to go sleep when i can't understand what i'm reading...)

Religion can be interesting, in the same way mythology can be interesting. Hell, when I was a kid my mother read to me about norse and greek mythology instead of fairy tails, so it could just be because of that that I find religion in general fascinating as fiction. In hindsight, I'm not sure most of those stories were age appropriate. But w/e.

 

[Some Nobody]

Personally, I find most Western RPG's generic visually. It seems like so many of them rarely deviate from the traditional D&D or Lord of the Rings settings or style. They often use the same character-types/classes, music, art-style, weapons, clothes/armor-type, medieval settings with with castles, knights, goblins, elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. That is one of the things I really appreciate more from JRPG's.

LOL, it's funny that I keep seeing this...despite the fact that if you talk to a lot of RPG players, they would say that J-RPGs are pretty generic too, in terms of plot if nothing else.

 

[John Kowalski]

A lot of these "what is!?" recently.

I'm preparing my "what is a game!?" post already.

 

[Some Nobody]

A generic fantasy setting is when you can briefly look at a setting and its characters and discern almost exactly who and what things are with no previous knowledge of that particular world.

Goblins are bad because they are goblins.

Orcs like to kill stuff and go on rampages because thats what orcs do.

Paladins are beacons of holy light.

Blah blah blah you know it when you see it.

Its interesting that you say this, because I think a lot of people would agree on it...and yet, several games invert these tropes and yet still get stamped with the "generic" label.

 

[Some Nobody]

A lot of these "what is!?" recently.

I'm preparing my "what is a game!?" post already.

No, there are a lot of "What Nintendo needs to do to save the Wii U..." and "Anyone else..." posts. The only other "What is" post I can think of is "What is dumb fun".

 

[Woorloog]

Religion can be interesting, in the same way mythology can be interesting. Hell, when I was a kid my mother read about norse and greek mythology instead of fairy tails, so it could just be because of that that I find religion in general fascinating as fiction. In hindsight, I'm not sure most of those stories were age appropriate. But w/e.

Of course. Can't understand how i even thought about the other interpretation. Perhaps i'm just cynical and except every one in NeoGAF to hate and dislike religion and find it uninteresting.

I've noticed the works i like most, regardless of media, do play with religion at some level at very least. Dune, for example, my favorite book is very much about religion.

For the record, i'm atheist.

 

[Eusis]

Its interesting that you say this, because I think a lot of people would agree on it...and yet, several games invert these tropes and yet still get stamped with the "generic" label.

A lot more games twist things than we give them credit for. Problem is we've seen a lot of twists but few complete or near complete breaks away.

 

[haikira]

A game featuring derivative art and relying on standard fantasy tropes.

 

[Woorloog]

Its interesting that you say this, because I think a lot of people would agree on it...and yet, several games invert these tropes and yet still get stamped with the "generic" label.

Inversions are easy to see. And usually they take form of exceptions.
Example: Drizzt Dro'Urden, a chaotic good dark elf, who are nearly always chaotic/lawful (not sure which) evil.
And very often inversions are there just for sake of being inversions, not because they're there for a reason.

 

[E92 M3]

A lot of these "what is!?" recently.

I'm preparing my "what is a game!?" post already.

It's self-analysis week on NeoGAF.

 

[Steel]

Of course. Can't understand how i even thought about the other interpretation. Perhaps i'm just cynical and except every one in NeoGAF to hate and dislike religion and find it uninteresting.

I've noticed the works i like most, regardless of media, do play with religion at some level at very least. Dune, for example, my favorite book is very much about religion.

For the record, I'm atheist.

Same. Any good story deals with culture and beliefs, and religion is an integral part of that. Religion is a culture's answer to the meaning of life generally, an abridged explanation of the world as they see it. Any story that completely avoids the subject of religion is normally pretty shallow.

Inversions are easy to see. And usually they take form of exceptions.
Example: Drizzt Dro'Urden, a chaotic good dark elf, who are nearly always chaotic/lawful (not sure which) evil.
And very often inversions are there just for sake of being inversions, not because they're there for a reason.

To be fair, Warcraft pretty much fully inverts everything on his list and is considered generic. Paladins are often corrupt and evil, Orc's are not necessarily bloodthirsty(Unless demons are involved), goblins are not evil so much as money-grubbing and mischievous.

 

[nailbombxx]

Dragon's Dogma isn't "generic" fantasy. It was meant to be a classical medieval fantasy game, with all the things symbolic in chivalry and mythology. Though it borrows a lot from Dungeons and Dragons type stuff, it still has a very refined and classic style.

Now games like Dragon Age and Kingdoms of Amalur are generic fantasy mostly because the art design is garbage.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

LOL, it's funny that I keep seeing this...despite the fact that if you talk to a lot of RPG players, they would say that J-RPGs are pretty generic too, in terms of plot if nothing else.

A lot of RPG players I've talked to said that they found JRPGS to be more creative visually. I get the feeling that people are taking offense when this bias is expressed.

I think that the "generic fantasy game" label is mostly used upon taking a cursory view over a game's aesthetics. Plot is something that usually but not always follows if the visuals are not redeemable from an art design standpoint.

 

[Sheroking]

Ah, they're rather generic open world games, without anything special really, aside from excellent modding support. Aside from their setting, though how well it is represented depends.
IMO.

Well, nobody even comes close to the amount of content that Elders Scrolls games have. I can't think of another open world game where, after thirty hours of game time, I hadn't yet visited half the cities in the world. I can't think of many with more than a handful of cities. Regardless of what you think of the gameplay and it's execution, that is special.

Also, I don't know that many SP RPGs handle skill trees better. It's one of the few that understands the "job" system is archaic, and that should be given the freedom to grind out any combination of specialties we want, in any order.

 

[GillianSeed79]

The Elder Scrolls series might look generic, but it actually have many elements that could make it very different from any other fantasy series out there. Both Morrowind and Shivering Isles shows what TES universe hold and how make them unique. The Daedric Princes have lovecraftian value that with the right writing, could turned into very interesting personality and potential story plot. But then the writers think all of that are too unusual and decided to gives us generic fantasy quest #12 that is killing dragon and save the world from them.

There were a bunch of Daedric quests in Skyrim though. I agree that the main story was kind of generic, i.e. save the world from dragons, but a lot of the side stuff delved more into Elder Scrolls lore.

I'm not a huge Elder Scrolls lore person, but it's always struck me as more kind of Greek mythology in tone or kind of Clash of the Titans-esque lore-wise despite the high fantasy setting since you have all these various deities and such.

I actually really liked DA:O despite the fact that it was very LOTR in a sense. I don't think "generic fantasy" has to be a negative connotation. I actually like a lot of the tropes. My biggest problem with the likes of DA:O and, say, Mass Effect, is that they tend to employ Bioware's unique tropes, i.e. unite the factions to save the world.

 

[Steel]

I actually really liked DA:O despite the fact that it was very LOTR in a sense. I don't think "generic fantasy" has to be a negative connotation. I actually like a lot of the tropes. My biggest problem with the likes of DA:O and, say, Mass Effect, is that they tend to employ Bioware's unique tropes, i.e. unite the factions to save the world.

Actually that bioware unique trope is only in DA: O and Mass Effect. Jade Empire didn't deal with trying to unite factions at all, hell it didn't even really have factions. KOTOR 1 wasn't about uniting factions either. The uniting trope is a more recent thing.

 

[Woorloog]

To be fair, Warcraft pretty much fully inverts everything on his list and is considered generic. Paladins are often corrupt and evil, Orc's are not necessarily bloodthirsty(Unless demons are involved), goblins are not evil so much as money-grubbing and mischievous.

Those are occasional things mostly. In general paladins in WoW are good. Orcs are just another species in WoW... indeed, TV Tropes lists two types of orcs: Chaotic Evil orcs, and Blizzard orcs.
And they also note that The Elder Scrolls featured "Blizzard-type" orcs BEFORE Blizzard themselves.

Inversions usually happen for single characters (Drizzt), or whole species (Elves living underground just because, can't think of an example here though*). And usually inversions happen just because, not for a proper reason.

Where did you see an evil paladin last time? And i don't mean Death Knight or a Blackguard or equivalent evil counterpart, i mean literal evil paladin? That would be an interesting inversion, assuming it is done well. EDIT WoW's "evil paladins" are well-intentioned extremists, not evil in literal sense.

*Aside from the Elder Scrolls dwarves, the Dwemer who were a race of elves, who lived underground but for good reasons: Their advanced technology was based upon geothermal power so living underground was practical.

 

[Steel]

Where did you see an evil paladin last time? And i don't mean Death Knight or a Blackguard or equivalent evil counterpart, i mean literal evil paladin? That would be an interesting inversion, assuming it is done well. EDIT WoW's "evil paladins" are well-intentioned extremists, not evil in literal sense.

I was more talking about Warcraft the RTS. III has Arthas, but I suppose that seemed more like a star wars jedi/anakin parallel. But yeah, Elder scrolls did the 'just another race' orcs first.

 

[Woorloog]

I was more talking about Warcraft the RTS. III has Arthas, but I suppose that seemed more like a star wars jedi/anakin parallel. But yeah, Elder scrolls did the 'just another race' orcs first.

Arthas became a death knight, not an evil paladin. A big difference, in my mind.
When you say Anakin, you start talking about the Hero's Journey, the Monomyth. Hmm, never thought if it is applicable to Warcraft.
EDIT As a warning for those prone to wiki-walks: the links lead to TV Tropes and Wikipedia, respectively.

 

[Some Nobody]

Dragon's Dogma isn't "generic" fantasy. It was meant to be a classical medieval fantasy game, with all the things symbolic in chivalry and mythology. Though it borrows a lot from Dungeons and Dragons type stuff, it still has a very refined and classic style.

Now games like Dragon Age and Kingdoms of Amalur are generic fantasy mostly because the art design is garbage.

Booooo. Dragon's Dogma looked fucking terrible. Kingdoms of Amalur looked amazing. Now you can claim it's superior technically all you want, but DD looked dry and boring as fuck. Its the primary reason I didn't try to buy it.

 

[John Rabbit]

Dragon's Dogma isn't "generic" fantasy. It was meant to be a classical medieval fantasy game, with all the things symbolic in chivalry and mythology.

that's generic fantasy man.

 

[NeoGash]

Kingcums on Amalururerer or whatever it is called. Perhaps even Oblivion, but that was an amazing game unlike Kingcums.

 

[Foaloal]

Kingdoms of Amalur wasn't generic fantasy.

Has anyone who's saying that even played through the game (without skipping/not paying attention to any of the dialogue/books?)

Yeah, it does have swords and a race that basically look like blue elves.

Listen to the lore behind those blue elves though and it goes quite deep and doesn't regurgitate anything I've ever seen in a game before.

For goodness sake, they hired a well known, regular new your times best seller, writer who's written a ton of well respected fantasy novels to create an entirely original universe and backstory for the game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._A._Salvatore

Kingcums on Amalururerer or whatever it is called. Perhaps even Oblivion, but that was an amazing game unlike Kingcums.

You apparently don't even know the name of the game but yet you've apparently played it thoroughly enough to have a valid opinion on it? Come on.


Edit: I wouldn't disagree so strongly if somebody wanted to call it a generic action RPG, since it doesn't really break the mold too much in terms of gameplay.

 

[Ceebs]

Take Neverwinter Nights 2 for example.

The original base campaign is generic fantasy.

Mask of the Betrayer while using some typical generic locations however feels very fresh.