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Sony's Shuhei Yoshida: newly announced product at CES 2014 (VR headset?)
- Thread starter S¡mon
- Start date
jeff_rigby
Banned
Casual and APPs are coming this year which makes casual game and app VR this year a lock.
The PS4 software stack includes Mono, Cairo, Glib, Webkit and the software stack to support it. There is the potential for Gnome Apps and Mono - PS Mobile (name change Playstation Suite) games and APPs on the PS4....The PS4 controller has Vita like controls including touchpad which can mimic the Vita touchscreen.
This year the FCC is mandating that all Cable Box DVRs have to support Media Gateway DLNA-RVU features. The FCC further mandates that Open Source software must be used to do this. Cable box operators (Comcast) have settled on what is essentially Gnome Mobile; Cairo, Gstreamer and support libraries for webkit using QT UI vector drawing library while Gnome is GTKwebkit with the PS3, Vita and PS4 using GTKwebkit2 APIs.
Plans by Cable operators are to support Samba Network access in their DVRs for user content and Sony just released a firmware update to Nasne (DLNA-RVU media gateway) that supports Nasne file access Apps on Android and Vita.
A set of open source software API standards has been chosen by the Consumer electronics industry (including cable operators) to support applications and interaction between apps and hardware accessories with Sony also using these APIs. Playready DRM was chosen by the CE industry as the only closed source DRM standard. Add Java to this software stack for Blu-ray players and we have a software stack that can support the US XTV and EU hbbTV which DLNA-RVU CVP-2 supports.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
^^^ I know some of those words... <3
Gaf_SentMe
Member
If they do announce the VR headset, then what better event to introduce it. CES gets tons of coverage on news outlets. This event may access the casual market that is not aware of E3, GDC or TGS. SONY marketing is definitely being handled very well this gen.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/2/526...s-ps4-and-oculus-rift-projects-in-development
I stumbled on this today, it's probably nothing but I figured it was weird that a small studio that has only worked on small digital projects like PS home stuff, facebook games and an occulus rift game is developing two sepparate games aiming for 2014.
Maybe it's the same game?
I stumbled on this today, it's probably nothing but I figured it was weird that a small studio that has only worked on small digital projects like PS home stuff, facebook games and an occulus rift game is developing two sepparate games aiming for 2014.
Maybe it's the same game?
Honestly, how hard can it be to bring VR support to a game? (games that would benefit from it, like shooters.) It's not like with motion control games, where you NEED motion controllers to play them. VR is optional, no? It's basically mapping the camera controls to the device. You should be able to play any game that has VR support, without the VR. I don't think splitting the user base would be that big of an issue here.
In any case, within the first week of people receiving their Oculus Rift kits, they were booting a ton of games with it. In the hands of capable developers, they'd easily be able to bring VR support to their games.
I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about here. I want this to happen.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
As someone who was blown away after experiencing the HMZ T-1 VR headset on the PS4, I can't wait for a much more affordable version from Sony!
Adding good VR support is not easy. Camera mapping is a 1 hour job. After that, you need to fix entire HUD system, provide several control schemes, make sure that size ratio of objects inside gameworld is not borked [that you are not seeing everything like you are a dwarf or giant], fix every quick cinematic camera movement or hard cut so that it does not induce puking, find solution for showcasing prerendered [2D] cinematic.
There are many good original games for Oculus Rift, but many that were ported from older time have serious problems. For example, walking through doors moves your eyes 1cm away from the roof of the door [sorry eng is not my first language], making you freak out every time.
That was emulating big cinema screen [~45 degree FOV] without headtracking or position tracking. If Sony manages to provide similar type of 2D/3D rendering on their VR device, that will be pure victory [VR Cinema, but for games]. If not, every game would need to be manually tweaked for VR, and not all games can achieve good results.
Can Crusher
Banned
VR doesn't need head tracking and shit like that anyway, at least not yet. I would prefer a simple solution, because in the end we will still be using the controllers so I would rather control the camera with them. Just get me that 3D display VR headset, that can be used for movies also.
You can make a 'dual analog' game work pretty interchangeably with or without VR.
However, VR does open the possibility of...well...tri-analog games?
With a HMD on your head and a dual analog pad in your hand there are now 3 things you could theoretically operate around 3 different axes.
I'm not sure if this would be maybe too confusing or not, but if such 'tri analog' games were feasible, it could be difficult to make them work without the HMD. An awful lot of games will probably stick to two, though, and would work with or without.
Just to be clear, the pictures and text are implying transparent OLED with a LCD outer layer. Transparent OLED is what one version of Google Glasses uses. You have the option of blocking external light in the area you want text or images similar to the TV black boxes when displaying closed caption. The pictures and text also mention a head mounted camera with "Move tracking" allowing an accurate overlay but blocking the light from the move (lit) bulb with the LCD screen and displaying a flame over the blacked out first LCD screen.
There are lots of technical issues that had to be solved if the Transparent OLED screen is close to the eye.
This overlay of small objects reduces the video & GPU overhead that non-transparent Head mounted glasses have when doing VR. It likely can also allow full screen video by blacking out the whole LCD screen. The other patent for avoiding hitting external objects would apply in that case.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-research-3d-oled-kinect,14914.html
Sorry, I thought you were implying the patent might point to a scope of application like Google Glass, rather than the screen technology. My bad. It would be great if tech like that could be used and applied for dual VR/AR in one HMD, but we'll see. Patents can sometimes exhaust eventualities that might not be immediately practical or cost effective.
Kaz has done a zillion keynotes and presentations since becoming CEO that have had nothing to do with gaming.
As for Rex Crowle being at CES, he's probably going to be there to help demo/present Tearaway at the Sony booth. Sony often demos games already released at these things.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Thought Kaz would be doing DLNA technology and the Connected home in his Keynote speech but this article on Tech Trends at CES CES 2014 brings up smart glasses:
So even if I'm correct I think Smart glasses and VR will be mentioned in the Keynote and shown even if behind closed doors like Microsoft is doing. Even if they have prototype hardware, the software won't be bug free and they don't want that exposed to the consumer on the CES floor.http://mashable.com/2014/01/02/ces-2014-tech-trends/ said:
... which has what to do with VR software support exactly Jeff?
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
It'd be cool if they released older playstation games that would be VR friendly with VR support. Playing Kings Field (the original) with HMD support would be amazing... And unsettling considering how primitive the graphics are. The camera speed would need to be speedup though, considering how sluggish it is.
Hexa
Member
This is why the HDMI thing with Xbox One never made sense to me. Post this, it just seems pointless.
I saw that too and thought the same thing. Hopefully the VR thing will have a good library on launch.
Oh I know. I was just saying that's the only reason that I wouldn't say there's a zero percent chance of it happening. At the most I'd expect just a brief mention to get mainstream press hooked on the idea.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The work done on open source software (Gstreamer for instance) the last two years has been stressing latency and stream support for sensors to allow VR. The majority of Games and Apps that can use VR glasses will likely be casual and 2014 is the start of Casual games and apps.
This PDF from Khronos outlines openVX starting page 19 and in those pages the design choices (page 26) in the PS4 and XB1 for low power image recognition can be seen.
jeff_rigby
Banned
XB1's HDMI pass-through is useful with a X1 DLNA cable box that has HDMI output but useless with an X5 which has no HDMI out and relies on DLNA-IPTV. The future, predicted for 5 years, is all IP cable modems with 1Gb/sec+ bandwidth. About the same time HDMI ports will be used less and might eventually be eliminated in favor of a 10Gb/sec LAN port.
jeff_rigby
Banned
bleeding-edge gaming technologies that will be unveiled at the 2014 CES.”
"Qualcomm’s launch of their flagship Snapdragon 800 Processor at the 2013 CES introduced the capability of playing or displaying 4K video on a smartphone or tablet. The social gaming market is forecasted to reach $5 billion by 2015.
Major gaming exhibitors at the 2014 CES include: AMD, Innex, Intel, Logitech, Nokia, Nvidia, Orbotix, and Sony. Mobile gaming has been a high-growth market in recent years, with revenues increasing at triple-digit rates in 2011 and 2012. The expected launch of two updated gaming platforms this year is likely to bring a flurry of interest and innovation to the gaming category at the 2014 CES."
This PDF from Khronos outlines Software standards and what they are used for with timetables... openVX 1.0 just released but not yet adopted by the W3C into HTML5 WebGL (page 31)
"Qualcomm’s launch of their flagship Snapdragon 800 Processor at the 2013 CES introduced the capability of playing or displaying 4K video on a smartphone or tablet. The social gaming market is forecasted to reach $5 billion by 2015.
Major gaming exhibitors at the 2014 CES include: AMD, Innex, Intel, Logitech, Nokia, Nvidia, Orbotix, and Sony. Mobile gaming has been a high-growth market in recent years, with revenues increasing at triple-digit rates in 2011 and 2012. The expected launch of two updated gaming platforms this year is likely to bring a flurry of interest and innovation to the gaming category at the 2014 CES."
This PDF from Khronos outlines Software standards and what they are used for with timetables... openVX 1.0 just released but not yet adopted by the W3C into HTML5 WebGL (page 31)
Bedameister
Member
http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/01...-and-kaz-hirais-keynote-will-be-livestreamed/
There will be a live streamed Press conference and Kaz's Keynote.
What do you guys think, will they show it or not?
There will be a live streamed Press conference and Kaz's Keynote.
What do you guys think, will they show it or not?
serversurfer
Member
Do they normally stream their CES presentations?
Deep down, there's a part of me that keeps saying I'm being to optimistic. It's something I really have to see announced to believe.
Yes. Usually, there is alsmost zero mention of their gaming tech or services, but this year they are just coming out of great console launch. So they will maybe talk about it more.
Chances for VR headset are not high, IMO.
crystalmask
Banned
As someone with an hmz-t1, I can tell you head tracking is essential to VR and without it, its just a face vice.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
When it comes to stuff like this, I don't get my hopes up. No sense in disappointing myself wishing for something gaming related.
How hard can it be? 90% of devs struggle to provide a stable 30FPS. And we'd need at least stable 60FPS.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Yeah right. Sony would not want people buying an OR from someone else that can work on other systems if they can instead lock you to their own device. Why would they do something that is better for their consumers when they can have another failed add-on like move?
I agree obviously. VR should be open like a TV with Occulus VR makling royalties on each unit sold.
TIMtationX
Member
I was going to say the same. Virtual Reality isn't really virtual reality without head tracking at the very least.
Just a few more SCEJ HMD patents filed around spring last year.
VIDEO PROCESSING DEVICE, VIDEO PROCESSING METHOD, AND VIDEO PROCESSING SYSTEM
VIDEO OUTPUT DEVICE, 3D VIDEO OBSERVATION DEVICE, VIDEO DISPLAY DEVICE, AND VIDEO OUTPUT METHOD
3D VIDEO OBSERVATION DEVICE AND TRANSMITTANCE CONTROL METHOD
They're in Japanese aside from the abstractions, but from them and the pics they're mostly concerned with 'optically transmissive HMD' and AR applications. Google Glass-y stuff, AR from 'the right point of view' rather than the TV, and AR in concert with TV that seems perhaps like illumiroom stuff on steroids:
VIDEO PROCESSING DEVICE, VIDEO PROCESSING METHOD, AND VIDEO PROCESSING SYSTEM
VIDEO OUTPUT DEVICE, 3D VIDEO OBSERVATION DEVICE, VIDEO DISPLAY DEVICE, AND VIDEO OUTPUT METHOD
3D VIDEO OBSERVATION DEVICE AND TRANSMITTANCE CONTROL METHOD
They're in Japanese aside from the abstractions, but from them and the pics they're mostly concerned with 'optically transmissive HMD' and AR applications. Google Glass-y stuff, AR from 'the right point of view' rather than the TV, and AR in concert with TV that seems perhaps like illumiroom stuff on steroids:
childplease
Banned
I don't see virtual reality taking off on consoles. Just like 3d in the past generation the consoles are far too weak for vr.
Sure they might be able to render a game on the rift but at what cost I can already imagine how poor the iq would be and the insanely low res it would have to render at.
Sure they might be able to render a game on the rift but at what cost I can already imagine how poor the iq would be and the insanely low res it would have to render at.
googleplex
Member
No matter how many times this bullshit is posted it won't make it true.
Byakuya769
Member
Why are people so gung-ho to cede an entire emergent market to one company? At least let Sony and others show what they have in store before you decide occolus rift is the be all to end all.
serversurfer
Member
I disagree.
You realize all it's doing is rendering a 3D image, right? You also realize the production Rift will be 1080p/2, not 1080p*2, right?
There's nothing magical about VR technology, and Oculus certainly didn't invent it.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Child please.
Codeblew
Member
I wonder how many of these people are the same ones that spout off that competition is good for consoles.
killertofu
Member
You guys get too hyped up for nothing.
This is gonna be VGAX all over again.
This is gonna be VGAX all over again.
Jeff based on the info you've collected, what the programming language in the PS4's OS that native apps are built on? Also are the current apps, Native apps or hybrid-HTML5/web apps?
TheRealTalker
Banned
Byakuya769
Member
I wonder the same.
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
I seriously doubt the PS4 has the grunt available to render something like Killzone in 2 x 720p x 30 fps, which would still make for a very janky VR experience. Any games for their VR device would out of necessity be a lot more basic. I'm curious to see how they get past this bottleneck. I wonder if their solution involves running 2 PS4s (one for each eye) that are somehow coordinating over a USB connection.
googleplex
Member
Monopolies are good when their company of choice has one.
There are no "standards" in VR, just "best practices" when creating content for VR. The more company and developers try their hands at VR to better it will be and the quicker it'll take hold.
googleplex
Member
Dude.. Killzone Muliplayer is already 1080 at 60FPS. what the fuck are you talking about ?
killertofu
Member
Isn't the problem with VR that you have to output for 2 different screens?
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
You need to output 2 screens. Not the same thing. And given the screens are just a few inches from your retina the resolution and framerates need to be much higher than your TV that's 12 feet away.
boredandlazy
Member
But isn't each 'screen' in the occulus 960x1080p?
Hmm. Not sure how I feel about PS4 VR now after reading some comments.
Got reminded it may be an accessory not many developers support, and also the price... (Espicially as I'm considering getting a new laptop atm...)
If they do make the VR and it is limited by the above, I just hope it can work on PC as well, otherwise I may be stuck with a VR that won't get much content. If they can prove that wrong, then I may be OK with it...
Got reminded it may be an accessory not many developers support, and also the price... (Espicially as I'm considering getting a new laptop atm...)
If they do make the VR and it is limited by the above, I just hope it can work on PC as well, otherwise I may be stuck with a VR that won't get much content. If they can prove that wrong, then I may be OK with it...