TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
If you think this is bad stay away from the Alien movies.
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USgamer on a rape allusion in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2
- Thread starter Tenrius
- Start date
I never said she would be changing anything. I said that her wanting it to be cut because she personally finds it uncomfortable is not healthy criticism at all.
Guess I won't be buying this game now.....
HA! Yeah right. This rape thing is really grasping at straws. If he liked pinned her to the floor or something I guess, maybe, you'd have a better argument. Even then though, I read this as more as he kills the husband because the husband is a threat, the woman is weaker and poses less of a threat to him in his weakened state. If he killed the woman first, the man would fight and may overcome him, thus killing the vampire.
Rape? Hardly. Typical vampire fiction? Sounds right
HA! Yeah right. This rape thing is really grasping at straws. If he liked pinned her to the floor or something I guess, maybe, you'd have a better argument. Even then though, I read this as more as he kills the husband because the husband is a threat, the woman is weaker and poses less of a threat to him in his weakened state. If he killed the woman first, the man would fight and may overcome him, thus killing the vampire.
Rape? Hardly. Typical vampire fiction? Sounds right
Is this a fucking joke?
What? They are going for "making people uncomfortable"
Way to twist it though.
Yes, they are indeed violators and that is the horror. They are seductive creatures and drink blood from men and women alike. It simply goes with the territory when dealing with the subject matter and I have never once heard anyone take offense and compare it to rape.
What are we supposed to do, censor vampire stories now because people get their panties in a wad? Oh no! Dracula drank blood from a woman in a game, like he always has done in all of the other tales about him. How dare they!
CaptainSlow
Member
Games journalism folks, right here at its finest.
Lol. I wonder what she would have thought about the scene in Hellsing ultimate, where Alucard feeds on Rip Van Winkle. Compared to that this scene doesn't sound the least bit "sexual". He's pretty much killing a whole family, nothing sexual about it. It does sound disturbing but he's Dracula not Edward fucking Cullen. He's a monster being a monster.
DJSharpeCheddar
Banned
Yeah, no kidding. If she has a problem with a vampire being a vampire, I'd love to see her respond to the pronounced, pervasive and completely intentional rape imagery throughout that entire game. Does it get a pass because it's a classic game? Because it's Japanese?
I'm going by this thread and the comments on the article itself. The vast majority of the response isn't offensive or rude. There are people being flippant but so was her article. The blowback came not from her being offended but how she wrote her article. If it was: I don't like how this scene played out and it makes me uninterested in the game. If the developers change it, I'll be interested in playing the game it would be completely different than the article she wrote. Someone above said that there seems to be sexual assult in the new Metal Gear game. I won't be playing that game. I have no interest in any game that has an audio track for that.
We all have things that we are willing to put up with. She just wrote a really bad article and her editors failed her.
Yes? Especially when you add in the other Vampire standards like seduction and (supernatural) physical dominance.
Unless there's some big thing the article doesn't mention (beyond "it's first person" I mean) the problem is implying that using that Vampire imagery is a bad thing, it's not like it's trivialising the rape allusion given that every preview agrees that this sequence is supposed to be horrifying, and is specifically showing what a monster the character involved is.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
I guess it's time to burn some books.
Did countless people call for them to be censored? That's why you're seeing Kat and USGamer/Jeremy get bashed. Rightfully so. The answer to being offended isn't to encourage the artist to excise the offending material. But what's worse is that it's a supposed journalist doing it. And also it's a horribly written story/article.
ultratruman
Banned
I wish we didn't have to worry about articles like these, but the game developers need to make money and the hysteria around these issues can and has forced creators to compromise their vision.
It was bad enough when tabloids could force the likes of Rockstar North to cut the sexy parts from their 18 rated game, but in the age of the internet any jumped-up blogger can fart out a piece on some imagined injustice and drum up a huge wave of resentment and controversy towards a game and its developer.
It was bad enough when tabloids could force the likes of Rockstar North to cut the sexy parts from their 18 rated game, but in the age of the internet any jumped-up blogger can fart out a piece on some imagined injustice and drum up a huge wave of resentment and controversy towards a game and its developer.
She said when they played it for her, Dracula fed only on the woman. On other play troughs he fed on all of them. It is clear how this would have a huge effect on the perception of the event, and that is something I like about video games.
Rape can totally be addressed in video-games, just like torture. Do it with care or do it with no class, I dont really care. I wont buy games where I feel it is being used to make a point like: "Look how bad our main character is". I would totally play a game where it was used as a way to connect the players to a foreign experience, a la gone home.
Clearly I was never a teenage lesbian just like I can never be a woman who has experienced rape, but games that treat the matter with seriousness and skill give you a whole different and frankly needed perspective on some of these events.
Lets start blaming Osamu Tezuka too.
He handled rape very well in Ayako.
damn and you still never read dracula
XANDER CAGE
Member
Do you understand what a metaphor is? Or subtext? This isn't even debatable. This has been a cornerstone of classic vampire fiction for more than a hundred years.
I'm not even saying the scene is bad and wrong. Read my posts. My point is that it's actually rather refreshing to have a developer openly admit that yes, this is an intentionally uncomfortable scene, rather than get defensive or call people complaining crazy loons. The final game might turn out to be trashy and exploitative like so many other games before it, but based on these articles I'm at least willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now.
Unfortunately they seem to have plenty of people getting defensive on their behalf, but you can't win 'em all.
Nope. I'm sure there are a lot of great books I have yet to read. I love reading but I've never been interested in Dracula based on what I know of him through popular culture (pre emo vamires).
I remember Metal Gear Solid 1 doing it, but I think it was a part of the translation, and not the original script.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why do you think Bowser kidnaps Peach so often?
I've been having an exchange for her over the last half-hour or so. She's obviously getting a lot of crap from people, but she's been nothing but cordial, and totally willing to respond to particular questions. I have a screen-grab of the back-and-forth.
"I only saw Dracula feed on the woman"
And? It's Dracula. Does she expect fiction to be rewritten to match her sensitivities? A character being portrayed like this is in no way an endorsement (an the fact that he is the main character does not change that). But she clearly is ignoring that point. Clickbait troll horse woman.
Ok fine. I associate vampire fiction very heavily with rape. I felt the scene described by Kat Bailey had overtones of sexual assault and decide to not play the game because I don't want to. That is all I have been saying, the rest have been my internal thought process to arrive at that decision.
Nymphae
Banned
What I don't really understand here is how biting a neck gives anyone rapey vibes. I haven't seen the scene obviously, but rape is a pretty strong word to throw around.
Sure, he kills a dude, then feeds on the woman's neck. I'm just not connecting the rape dots there. Kat or anyone else might feel uncomfortable if they watch the scene, but how is it the game's fault if she sees rape in a scene with no rape in it?
meltingparappa
Member
Tezuka had explicit rape in MW.
People forget that not all of his works fall under that "Walt Disney of Japan" nickname he has.
dragonbane
Member
Tomb Raider, Beyond: Two Souls and probably some others. Not sure what the deal was with Hotline Miami 2.
People looking for hidden messages where they may or may not exist.
Dracula drinks blood from men and women alike in the game. Is it a violation? Hell yes, as vampires drink blood from living hosts to live. Is it a sexual violation that implies raping a woman? No. It's just Dracula being the blood drinking fiend that he is. There is nothing to see here.
Cyber Caesar
Member
So rape is worse than murder?
MaschinenZimmer
Banned
I agree. We should start with forbidding everything Twilight related.
Those crazy women humiliating fantasies needs to stop!
Those crazy women humiliating fantasies needs to stop!
The Elite
BOSS
Has it been mentioned yet how much the screenshot captions conflict with the actual article?
Doctor who references while talking about rape in the article; What?!
That's not a TARDIS and last time I checked Dracula was a creature of the undead. If he doesn't make you feel uncomfortable by what he does, even if you're playing as him, then the writers are doing something wrong.
Maybe they should have a cat censor version and cover up unsettling imagery with cats.
Well the question that would rationally follow is "Would Dracula having fed on the whole family change how you felt about the scene?"
I think it was implied in what I asked, so I don't feel the need to badger her any more. On the one hand I disagree with her presumption that the scene is a failure, since it evoked the reaction from her that it sounds like it was designed to, but on the other, I'm saying that based on a secondhand account.
Zoe
Member
Um...
There's this point in her argument that villainous depictions are also followed with "cool" things you do as the main character in a video game. Unfortunately this is all very "GTA made that kid shoot up the school" territory.
I find this very strange. Unless it explicitly actually happens, why would you associate it with that? Why is everyone always looking at something and trying to find a hidden meaning behind it?
She'd probably respond with "you're not playing as Pyramid Head." Because the protagonist of a videogame always has to be a good guy, right! Only enemies do bad stuff. Stick to the rules, game designers!
*sigh* ... gaming "journalists," holding the medium back since its inception.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
TBF there is nothing inherently sexual about it. Sucking blood is not inherently sexual Bram stokers renditions of it has numerous sexual undertones, but the concept of Vampires have existed before Stoker and there are numerous diverging renditions afterwards.
You cannot say all Vampire concepts have sexual undertones because that is factually incorrect. The most common ones do however.
XANDER CAGE
Member
If you've never heard vampires compared to rape then you haven't been within ten feet of any literary analysis in your life. This isn't really up for debate, what's worth discussing here is Castlevania's apparent allusions to that aspect of the subtext.
And once again, I haven't said word one about censoring vampires.
I dont think there is an universal answer, but having serious discussion with male and female friends, it is split about 50/50
Miles Quaritch
Member
I've been having an exchange with her over the last half-hour or so. She's obviously getting a lot of crap from people, but she's been nothing but cordial, and totally willing to respond to particular questions. I have a screen-grab of the back-and-forth.
Okay, I'm not sure I understand. She says she saw Dracula kill the father outright and feed on the mother, but all other previews mention Dracula feeding on both...
What gives?
On the top of my head, one of your boring companions in Fallout 3 (Jericho) attempted to rape one of the NPCs in the past, its implied heavily through computer terminals and dialog. I liked that the player cant know more about this or confront the character about it.
meltingparappa
Member
Giant Bomb actually has a list, surprisingly.
I forgot that Haunting Ground existed and the implied rape themes were completely central to its atmosphere.
Moral Panic
Member
C'mon man you are fighting a battle you are clearly not well versed in. The sexual symbolisms in Dracula and most vampire fiction isn't really a thing of debate.
The Elite
BOSS
There's definitely a sexual connotation from the act of penetration, even if it's feasting for blood. That comes with the character though and with vampires in general. I would be bothered if that was stripped to keep things safe for the easily offended.
anexanhume
Member
Murder victims don't have to live with what happened to them. Everyone more or less equally fears murder. Women are predominantly the ones who fear rape.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Guess which canon Castlevania draws liberally from? I'll give you a clue, it begins with a B and ands with ram Stoker.
Prime crotch
Banned
Vampire and rape go hand in hand, and if something is unsettling doesn't outright mean it shouldn't be depicted or shown.
You can't have your cake of "mature issues" and not show something questionable.
What I'm saying is, it's good if they add some sexual subtlety to it, how they handle it, is anyone's guess.
You can't have your cake of "mature issues" and not show something questionable.
What I'm saying is, it's good if they add some sexual subtlety to it, how they handle it, is anyone's guess.
That was probably my biggest problem with the article.
That a protagonist is 'obviously' meant to be 'cool'. And presumably therefore should NOT be doing anything bad, or we would be associating bad things like rape and murder with being cool.
The end-point of this logic is to only be allowed to play as morally upstanding characters, which is bizarre.