• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

OPINE: the Vita can be saved (here's how)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fisty

Member
It’s been discussed to death, but the PS Vita isn’t doing well. It can be saved, in my opinion. Unfortunately it won’t be quick, easy, or cheap. The light at the end of the tunnel could be worth it, with a new focus and a consolidation of efforts. I will try to stick to the main points, but there is a bit of speculation involved so take that for what its worth.

-To start
The PS Vita is a great handheld with great games, this is indisputable. Your tastes may vary, and there might not be an overwhelming bounty, but there are gems. Unfortunately, the generally low hardware sales of the PSV have caused hesitation among major Western publishers, which only worsened the problem. Licensed games are abundant, but indies have found a home there, and mid-tier Japanese publishers are slowly adopting the handheld as the PSP finally dies and the 3DS shows its age (if they aren’t chasing the mobile market). The PSV represents a unique “bridge” between SD-games and HD-games; not quite HD (cheaper) and way better than SD (prettier). Potential exists to create an environment of small-to-mid-range games that are both portable and graphically impressive, but this potential cannot be realized unless favorable projections can be made from sales forecasts made by publishers. Remote Play has been an impressive feature of this generation, and the ability to play PS4 games on the PSV is definite selling point. So if I can play PS4 games on my PSV, why can’t I play PSV games on my PS4?

-The goal
Every Playstation 4 should have PlaystationTV functionality. The PS4 is the fastest selling console of all time, and it should serve as another way to play PSV games. How this can be achieved, I won’t claim to be knowledgeable about. One possibility could be the mysterious secondary processor in the PS4, which is ARM-based and has 256mb of RAM (the PSV is ARM-based and its games use 256mb of RAM). Obviously this processor is used by the PS4, but for exactly what it is used for and what else it could be used for is up for speculation. It is not unfathomable that it would have been easier and cheaper to slap a PSV board inside the PS4 as a secondary processor than to produce another custom board (PS2 did this), and booting into “Vita mode” with a stripped-down PlaystationTV OS would be practically painless to implement. A brute force solution obviously wouldn’t be ideal, but the PS4 should be up to the task.

-How to
Sony needs to ensure every PS Vita game that doesn’t involve ridiculous amounts of gyro or touch controls is playable on PlaystationTV, and all PSV games going forward need to at least support a PlaystationTV mode. There isn’t an ocean of content to QA at this point, so now is the time to clean house. PSP content on PlaystationTV should be 1:1 with digital offerings. By the end of 2015, this plan should be announced and nearing completion.

-The payoff
The results of this implemented plan would be greatly favorable. Digital PSV games would receive a drastic increase in potential customers, making the potential return on investment of PSV games much greater. Hardware sales of the PSV may be negatively impacted initially, but will likely rise over time due to brand awareness and new software customers. PS+ subscribers without a PSV could have access to a huge pile of amassed games, which would serve as VERY good public relations. People may become invested in PSV games and see the benefits of owning a PSV and taking that experience with them wherever they go. Or not. Either way, they are still far more likely to purchase PSV software, even if they don’t own a PSV. So its still a win for the publisher and a win for Sony, where before it was a loss for both.

Along with a Playstation brand consolidation among its current game offerings, it will also allow game developers to consolidate their efforts toward a single platform. Instead of the half-solution of cross-buy, which results in extra work, time, and money put in by developers and publishers, a single executable would be optimized to work on the PSV and be playable on both pieces of hardware. Cross-buy games such as Rogue Legacy, Terraria, Spelunky, Hotline Miami, Velocity 2x, etc would look and play exceptionally well if optimized solely for the PSV and scaled to the 1080p of our HDTVs. 60fps would be more likely in this scenario as well, which would be consistent across both platforms.

Another possible outcome would be a new wave of Japanese handheld games for Western console audiences. Games/series like Ys, Danganronpa, Zero Escape, and Freedom Wars could maintain their smaller budgets while vastly expanding their potential customer base. The problem of the West’s console focus and the East’s handheld focus could no longer be a problem, as these games could serve both consumer bases with no sacrifice on either side. This could be a boon for JRPGs and VNs, which would only grow and diversify as time goes on.

-Possible concerns, future talking points
Just a few points that would need to be addressed should this ever come to be:
How would branding work for the PSV’s successor? Vita should be carried forward to signify the SOFTWARE environment, but then naming hardware may get tricky.
What if the PSV sales drop dramatically? Possibly slow production and sell them directly through Sony stores or online with Amazon. Retail is very hostile to this device, it seems, so it may be best to focus stock.
What about Xperia? Maybe it can Remote Play PSV games too, from your PS4, but it probably wouldn’t be wise to put PSV/PSP games on an Android device.



Thanks for hearing me out, and feel free to comment and discuss any angles/problems I may have overlooked.
 
The thing already has a bunch of exclusives, remoteplay, indies, and JRPGs galore. People are just being little brats about it. Lower the price of the memory cards and the console by a bit more and suddenly everyone will love it.
 
The thing already has a bunch of exclusives, remoteplay, indies, and JRPGs galore. People are just being little brats about it. Lower the price of the memory cards and the console by a bit more and suddenly everyone will love it.

I don't think this affects sales as much as people think, most people probably don't even know the memory cards are necessary and expensive.
 
The thing already has a bunch of exclusives, remoteplay, indies, and JRPGs galore. People are just being little brats about it. Lower the price of the memory cards and the console by a bit more and suddenly everyone will love it.

I bet to differ. I bought one of the early units because of Wipeout. Launch lineup was solid but after that, I didn't touch the thing for a year. It didn't appeal to me and the games I did want to play I could get on other systems.

It just isn't a handheld for everyone and the kind of support I wanted out of it, Sony won't give it.

I sold it here on GAF and put it towards a PS4.
 
I think the main demographic of games consoles and handhelds that aren't Nintendo, aren't all too interested In handheld Sony consoles. Or handhelds at all.

Entirely anecdotal, myself and my friends who are into games stopped playing handhelds in our early teens. Sony is chasing the wrong demographic. Handhelds are generally more popular with kids and Nintendo has that market on lock.
 

sajj316

Member
Vita should not be about hardware. Vita tech should exist in micro consoles as it does in PS TV and phones. Increase the base ..
 

Fisty

Member
I think the main demographic of games consoles and handhelds that aren't Nintendo, aren't all too interested In handheld Sony consoles. Or handhelds at all.

Entirely anecdotal, myself and my friends who are into games stopped playing handhelds in our early teens. Sony is chasing the wrong demographic. Handhelds are generally more popular with kids and Nintendo has that market on lock.

My solution bypasses all this by giving people a way to play PSV games on a home console with a 12 million and growing install base
 

Afrit

Member
VitaPhone !

The vita hardware is compatible for such an upgrade.


:( ..will never happen after xperia PLAY
 

ZeroX03

Banned
My solution bypasses all this by giving people a way to play PSV games on a home console with a 12 million and growing install base

If they were interested in playing PSV games in the first place they would've bought a Vita. The mass market isn't interested.

Indie titles are already cheap and easy to port to PS4 so people have the option to buy them for the platform of their choice.
 

JoJoSono

Banned
The thing already has a bunch of exclusives, remoteplay, indies, and JRPGs galore. People are just being little brats about it. Lower the price of the memory cards and the console by a bit more and suddenly everyone will love it.
People keep saying this. I don't get it.

Here are the jrpgs on the system:

Tales of Hearts R
Final Fantasy X/X-2
Persona 4 Golden
Valhalla Knights 3
Conception II: Children of the Seven Stars
Disgaea 4: A Promise Revisited
Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth2: Sisters Generation
Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1
Natural Doctrine
Mind Zero
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention
Ys: Memories of Celceta
Demon Gaze
Sorcery Saga
Atelier Ports
(Taken from Gamestop so US centric)

This is your great jrpg library? A library filled with low budget c tier games? It's not even a big list and the quality is largely arguable. Most of these games would not all be noteworthy during the PS2 days. They are only noteworthy because of complete desperation and I guess because of the sad state of the genre.

Hell this is piss poor compared to the PSP's library which is overflowing with plenty of jrpgs beyond low budget otaku fair.

This sure dosen't seem like "jrpgs galore", nor does it seem very appealing beyond a very small niche audience. And people are being brats about the Vita? I kind of find that hard to believe when supposedly this is the great library. In terms of jrpgs there's so much more appealing exclusives on the 3ds.
 
Mass Effect fans alone could save it it EA would just release the Mass Effect trilogy on Vita in reverse order, thus making it the best place to experience the series.
 

EBreda

Member
Sorry man, by the time any of this have a significant impact on Vita sales, it's time for a new handheld already. Which I doubt Sony will release, since they seem to be going for Vita's tech on phones nowadays.

Handheld monopoly for Nintendo.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
I still think a full fledged ps vita phone would sell like crazy.

I've got and love my Xperia Z1 compact. Great battery, screen and feel. If they made a brand Xperia Z Vita line with a small pop out analogue pad / buttons for on the go play (as opposed to having to connect a DS3 / whatever) - it would be my phone line of choice for life.
 

EloKa

Member
So if I can play PS4 games on my PSV, why can’t I play PSV games on my PS4?

unfortunately the hardware of the Vita is too weak to stream games to the PS4.

Receiving a stream is less demanding because you basically only have to push that stream onto the screen. But streaming your signal to another device includes way more work that has to be done like encoding the stream while you still have to render the game in the background.
 

Griss

Member
I reckon a dev would be thinking:
"Either I can make this game for the Vita, and it'll also run on PS4. Or I can say, 'Fuck the tiny Vita market, let's actually use the PS4."

Anyway, I don't think anyone but the most hardcore gives a damn about remote play. I have a Vita and a PS4 and I certainly don't. I tried it a couple of times.

The Vita is dead, and not just as a platform, but as a concept. The 'AAA games on the go' dream will never survive because devs who are good enough to make games that could sell that portable console will always be better off working on the main consoles or PC. Since 'B team' devs get put on the portable, gamers' time is better spent playing similar games on home consoles. Which is where the best devs will be. And where the gamers are. And so on and so forth.
 

Yasumi

Banned
It shipped 100k more than the WiiU worldwide in the first half of this year, but apparently lolitsded nogaems.

The Vita doesn't really need "saving" at this point. It's selling to the Japanese game and indie game niche demographics, and will continue to do so until it stops getting games, which considering the number of announcements and localizations, won't be any time soon.
 
It shipped 100k more than the WiiU worldwide in the first half of this year, but apparently lolitsded nogaems.

The Vita doesn't really need "saving" at this point. It's selling to the Japanese game and indie game niche demographics, and will continue to do so until it stops getting games, which considering the number of announcements and localizations, won't be any time soon.

Shipped more where? I assume Japan? Because here in the states a Vita on a store shelf is a rare thing.
 
They could you know try putting as much effort as they're doing marketing the PS4 with the vita. For the
PS4
players. Or hell, announced a minecraft bundle and sold like hotcakes. I have no hype at all for the PS Experience to even announce one vita exclusive aside from indies.
 
All of their focus (game/marketing budget) went to the PS4, even the vita got turned into a PS4 accessory.
It's hard to come back from where it is (outside of japan)...doable, but i think sony is happy enough with them selling a ton of ps4s thanks to their marketing.
 

Petrae

Member
Vita is what it is: A niche/indie machine. That's never changing.

There won't be AAA support for it. There won't be prominent third-party support for it. There won't be key Sony IP making appearances on the platform.

Consequently, most consumers have little interest in it... and that's exacerbated by the mobile boom, which continues to eat away at dedicated handheld sales.

It's like the 3DO of handhelds-- relatively advanced tech, expensive to own (though this is thanks to memory card costs instead of hardware costs), has a relatively unknown games lineup, and its sales are infinitesimal... but there is a small group of hardware owners that will swear by it anyway and tell you how great it is.
 

driver116

Member
The problem lies with it being targeted at core gamers - at a guess I'd say most would rather get the complete experience on a home console. It should be targeted at casual gamers and sprinkle the core games on top (similar the OG DS). A slightly smaller screen, thinner in width, SD cards, lower price point, different colours etc.

Going forward what will Sony try next? Leave the handheld market and focus on smartphones? Create another Vita with the full control scheme of the DS4? A Vita/Xperia crossover?
 

geordiemp

Member
We got a VITA in the house, its dead (not used much)

We play ps4 on large TV's and for casual its IPAD.

We don't game in public places like Japan as much in UK so cant see the point of dedicated hand helds...
 

Putosaure

Member
So basically, to save the Vita you're suggesting to enable Vita compatibility on the PS4 ?

I only have a Vita and no PS4, fuck me right ?
 

Strazyplus

Member
Lol vita is dead GAF let it go

f84.gif
 

wachie

Member
Disagree. IMO two basic issues that need to be "fixed"

1. Price drop to $149.
2. Drop proprietary memory card format.
 

Beartruck

Member
ilVAMPV.jpg


Seriously though, the Vita TV goes for 60-80 in America right now depending where you buy it, and people still aren't interested. It has no chance, and Sony knows it.
 
VitaPhone !

The vita hardware is compatible for such an upgrade.


:( ..will never happen after xperia PLAY

This is the best way they can do it, if only they had a decent market share of the smartphone business. If Sony had the same position in the market that Samsung do then it would be so doable.
 
People keep saying this. I don't get it.

Here are the jrpgs on the system:

Tales of Hearts R
Final Fantasy X/X-2
Persona 4 Golden
Valhalla Knights 3
Conception II: Children of the Seven Stars
Disgaea 4: A Promise Revisited
Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth2: Sisters Generation
Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1
Natural Doctrine
Mind Zero
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention
Ys: Memories of Celceta
Demon Gaze
Sorcery Saga
Atelier Ports
(Taken from Gamestop so US centric)

This is your great jrpg library? A library filled with low budget c tier games? It's not even a big list and the quality is largely arguable. Most of these games would not all be noteworthy during the PS2 days. They are only noteworthy because of complete desperation and I guess because of the sad state of the genre.

Hell this is piss poor compared to the PSP's library which is overflowing with plenty of jrpgs beyond low budget otaku fair.

This sure dosen't seem like "jrpgs galore", nor does it seem very appealing beyond a very small niche audience. And people are being brats about the Vita? I kind of find that hard to believe when supposedly this is the great library. In terms of jrpgs there's so much more appealing exclusives on the 3ds.
Missing a few and might as well have listed the Atelier games individually and of course there is always debate on which are the good games (I assume you've bolded your choices) but it is objectively barren of exclusives and debatably sad even including all of the ports.

The only thing more disingenuous than calling the Vita a JRPG machine is the delusion that memory cards are all that is holding it back.
 

Fisty

Member
unfortunately the hardware of the Vita is too weak to stream games to the PS4.

Receiving a stream is less demanding because you basically only have to push that stream onto the screen. But streaming your signal to another device includes way more work that has to be done like encoding the stream while you still have to render the game in the background.

I was suggesting PS4 runs PSV games natively or by emulation, not streaming.

If they were interested in playing PSV games in the first place they would've bought a Vita. The mass market isn't interested.

Indie titles are already cheap and easy to port to PS4 so people have the option to buy them for the platform of their choice.

Thats not true at all, plenty of peolle are interested in PSV games but dont want to spend $200+ to play. Give them a reason to buy PSV games, which would obviously help software sales and could end up helping hardware if enough people catch on

I reckon a dev would be thinking:
"Either I can make this game for the Vita, and it'll also run on PS4. Or I can say, 'Fuck the tiny Vita market, let's actually use the PS4."

Anyway, I don't think anyone but the most hardcore gives a damn about remote play. I have a Vita and a PS4 and I certainly don't. I tried it a couple of times.

The Vita is dead, and not just as a platform, but as a concept. The 'AAA games on the go' dream will never survive because devs who are good enough to make games that could sell that portable console will always be better off working on the main consoles or PC. Since 'B team' devs get put on the portable, gamers' time is better spent playing similar games on home consoles. Which is where the best devs will be. And where the gamers are. And so on and so forth.

This is exactly the problem. We need to drop the AAA on the go schtick. PSV clearly excels at certain genres, and the focus should be there. I dont expect low-to-mid-range developers to so easily dismiss a way to sell to a high userbase while also targeting lower spec hardware and therefore decreasing production costs dramatically. 544p v 1080p is a huge difference, in terms of cost. JRPGs and indies could benefit from this.

If posts like this have to be made then it's already dead.

People said the same thing about the WiiU. All it took was games for it to start turning around. I am suggesting a way to do that without Sony needing to push its devs onto it
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom