Support NeoGAF

[Ding]

All these changes before manufacturing... and yet they can't remove the online DRM shit; you have to update online.

Dat bait and switch (switch back to their original Xbone policies).

Oh, if only. (I'm hoping they will let us opt back in to the original policies if we want, but I fear that will be too complicated/expensive to do that.)

 

[Wishmaster92]

http://wccftech.com/rumormicrosoft-xbox-possibly-feature-discrete-gpu-core-stacked-main-soc/

Could you comment on this Penello? Thanks.

 

[Portugeezer]

Say hi to my cousin who works at MS for me, he works in a division (Sharepoint) that actually makes money unlike yours though

I laughed more than I should have.

 

[gtj1092]

Are they saying they barely started mass production?

 

[artist]

They were at FanExpo...

Yeah, was not interested in paying 45 bucks, just to stand in lines again.

I'm talking about some booths in Futureshop, BestBuy, Gamestops etc.

 

[Freki]

Albert Penello I salute your reserve in the face of the GAF consumer. The amount of FUD from people emotionally invested in a product is crazy this generation. I appreciate you at least taking the time to answer questions.

Don't worry - Microsoft has plenty of experience with FUD ;-)

 

[benny_a]

Why are we so rude to insiders who really don't have to post here? Leave the tough guy stuff at the door.

This is our town, scrub.

Are they saying they barely started mass production?

Everyone has to get the day 1 patch, so this can be done on already produced Xbones.

 

[Baroquemantic]

I'll take it. One step at a time. Next time you're in Seattle, I'll buy you a beer. Then finally, marathon session of Star Wars (the arcade game) in my loft. Deal?

You seem like a pretty cool guy, Mr. Penello.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Say hi to my cousin who works at MS for me, he works in a division (Sharepoint) that actually makes money unlike yours though

Why

 

[Spongebob]

Coldfoot's comment is clearly light hearted....

 

[evolution]

Still less powerful than PS4 overall, I do understand the need for positive PR even if its meaningless.

 

[coldfoot]

Come on guys, it was a light hearted jab.

 

[Brera]

How many GFLOPS?

 

[Dragon]

You seem like a pretty cool guy, Mr. Penello.

He likes transformers and works in engineering for a video game console division. I'd echo that for sure.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

lmao @ this thread. all over a tiny cpu bump. love you gaf.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Come on guys, it was a light hearted jab.

More like a dagger.

 

[cebri.one]

Good that MS is trying to improve xb1 as much as they can.

 

[Proelite]

You seem like a pretty cool guy, Mr. Penello.

Is he afraid of anything?

 

[velociraptor]

Come on guys, it was a light hearted jab.

I don't know, it seemed kind of dickish to me.

 

[QaaQer]

lmao @ this thread. all over a tiny cpu bump. love you gaf.

yup. more fun than a AAA game, fo sure.

 

[Vizzeh]

The thing with that is .. what's the benefit? They dont have a deficit or a gap to close.

I guess Sony at this point do not need too match any upclocks being the leading platform but since its similar hardware.. completely surmising they may increase the clock speeds because its completely safe to do so with free benefits, or towards the end of the products life cycle it may give them that little more juice to play with compared to PC titles.

I think Thuway said something about targeting 2.5Tflops on the PS4 over the next few years.

(I read a different rumour of stealth upclocks around the last of us etc that where killing off old Huge PlayStation's, out of warranty anyway, not all were effected negatively)

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Come on guys, it was a light hearted jab.

Haha, I know.

 

[Frodo]

He likes transformers and works in engineering for a video game console division. I'd echo that for sure.

He offered the other guy a beer and a Star Wars marathon. I can be BFF to anyone that does that.

Edit: As long as the marathon consists of the Episodes 4 to 6.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Is he afraid of anything?

Probably his wife.

 

[Cali3350]

10% per thread performance advantage is not small. In what world is that small?

 

[EvB]

Say hi to my cousin who works at MS for me, he works in a division (Sharepoint) that actually makes money unlike yours though

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Even the cleanest of buttocks are capable of producing the occasional turd.

I still believe in the Buttocks!

 

[Dragon]

More like a dagger.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Say hi to my cousin who works at MS for me, he works in a division (Sharepoint) that actually makes money unlike yours though

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Ok why is this thread gone from good news to weird and out there family related one liners. It's good news no matter how you cut it. You can at least appreciate Albert coming in here and braving the crowd.

 

[Freki]

10% per thread performance advantage is not small. In what world is that small?

In the same world where people think a 40% power advantage won't result in anything tangible...

 

[xinfamousxi]

ALBERT!!!!! Can you confirm that the Xbox 1 headset adaptor is still in the works?

 

[The Crimson Kid]

This is great news. A more powerful system for the same price is better for everyone.

It's nice to know that if I get a XB1 in the future, it will be a bit more capable than it originally was going to be.

 

[Faustek]

Their architectures are sufficiently different that it's impossible to distill their "power" into a single number. And even if you could, that number could only be valid for one particular piece of software.

The PS4 seemed more powerful before MS made these changes, and it still seems more powerful afterwards. But you can't just add up FLOPs. Well, okay, you can, but that leaves out a bunch of other stuff.

Longer, more hand-wavy answer: Based on what we know, the XB1 now has a CPU that is about 9% "faster" than the (speculated) one in the PS4. Not a big jump, but better than a poke in the eye. The XB1 is also purported to have some audio co-processing that the PS4 may lack. That may on occasion free up another ~10% of the XB1's CPU for other uses. On the other hand, the XB1 (or PS4) may be reserving more of the CPU for apps. Or, maybe it's the opposite. Maybe it'll change over time. We just don't know.

On the GPU side of things, the PS4 started out with a big advantage, and The XB1 has only closed the gap marginally. The PS4 started with a 50% advantage in GPU FLOPS, and the XB1 closed that to 40%(?) with their earlier clock bump. Of course, that's just a vague theoretical scorecard based on a naive counting of the CUs and assumes that all else is the same. All else isn't the same, since both companies added their own tweaks to the GPU. But that hopefully gets us in the ballpark of reality.

Then there's the memory architecture. Totally different. The PS4 has much more bandwidth to its main memory. On the other hand, the XB1 has some on-chip memory that should be faster still, latency-wise. How do those two differences offset? No freaking idea. It might be another case where the XB1 is only able to close a gap slightly, or it might be that the XB1 will actually be faster at certain things. (Not all things, certainly, but maybe some important things.)

Shorter answer: The PS4 is probably still more powerful. Hard to say how much more.

Non graphical tasks such as all their in-app-tv-switching such as Skype/ui/other apps.

Tbh to be able go actually compare the systems we would need the docs so we can see how everything is built.

 

[badb0y]

10% per thread performance advantage is not small. In what world is that small?

Have you ever overclocked a CPU by 150 MHz?

Intel CPU boosts higher than this overclock lol.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I actually addressed this in an older post, but I will do so again. Each of the companies ALLOCATES pre-orders to retailers. That’s why they “sell out”. I don’t know how many PS4 units Sony “released” for pre-order (actually, I don’t know how many we did, either). But you could have two consoles with the IDENTICAL number of units being manufactured, and depending on how many they allocate to pre-orders vs. walk-ins, could affect the pre-order numbers. Just using “pre-orders” as a benchmark for any hardware is not the best way to establish anything – demand, manufacturing.. anything.

Really? You know this how exactly? I’m just saying – your interpretation of what things cost, unless Sony or us have released the detailed BOM for our machines… not sure how this proves anything.

I did also explain that when we said “localization” it also referring to Live, marketplace, apps, and other regional issues with launching – not JUST voice or Kinect support.

OK, thanks for taking the time to answer! I will concede the first and third points.

But unless you can provide me with real data (and I understand you would probably get in trouble if you did) of the costs of producing Kinect, I will find it hard to believe that the cost of producing this device would be in the range of $150. (Given the relative specs of Xbox One and PS4, I think $350 would have been a reasonable price to ask for without Kinect.) From my understanding, the original Kinect is priced at $99, and I am sure you made a profit off of it. It is my understanding that the original Kinect contained specialized hardware because the 360 was not originally built with the Kinect in mind. This extra hardware is not needed for Kinect 2, which should make it even cheaper to produce. It is my understanding that most of the improvements in Kinect 2 are related to software rather than hardware, and thus they should not contribute significantly to the BOM.

 

[EvB]

He offered the other guy a beer and a Star Wars marathon. I can be BFF to anyone that does that.

Edit: As long as the marathon consists of the Episodes 4 to 6.

Albert is awesome, he's got a site dedicated to M.A.S.K.

I always wanted a flying car as a child

http://www.albertpenello.com/mask/index.html

 

[Fox_Mulder]

preorder cancelled

 

[cebri.one]

10% per thread performance advantage is not small. In what world is that small?

Well jaguar is not precisely a computing beast

 

[Chobel]

Come on guys, it was a light hearted stab.

FTFY

Spoiler

But I admit, I laughed at that comment

 

[maabus1999]

Remove the imo and that still stands.

It depends on the game (and happens more often then you think). It is really foolish to believe that CPU bottlenecks don't occur in gaming.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Have you ever overclocked a CPU by 150 MHz?

Intel CPU boosts higher than this overclock lol.

They probably went as far as they could without changing voltage is my guess. 10% sounds about right.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Seriously, I respect the hell out of Albert for coming on here and interacting with us like he does, and I think we all know how difficult that is to do sometimes. It'd be all too easy to lose your patience with some of the responses he gets.

And, even if there's a tendency to instantly not believe everything that Microsoft says, I think the more engaged Albert remains, the more people will come to respect what he's trying to do, and where it makes sense, give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

preorder cancelled

 

[Cali3350]

Have you ever overclocked a CPU by 150 MHz?

Intel CPU boosts higher than this overclock lol.

Ive overlocked CPU's by 10% and its very noticeable.

Stop looking at the speed. Its a slow CPU. That in no way changes the fact the Xbones CPU will process a solid 10% faster than the PS4's. That is not a small amount.

 

[artist]

It depends on the game (and happens more often then you think). It is really foolish to believe that CPU bottlenecks don't occur in gaming.

Nope.

In the same world where people think a 40% power advantage won't result in anything tangible...

 

[Bsigg12]

Yeah, was not interested in paying 45 bucks, just to stand in lines again.

I'm talking about some booths in Futureshop, BestBuy, Gamestops etc.

Last week of October for both systems at select walmarts.

 

[GeoramA]

Come on guys, it was a light hearted jab.

Bullshit. Publicly apologize or kiss your business goodbye.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

misterxmedia should be banned.

Not sure what that means, but if that's the site I linked to I didn't know it was a banned site. Just saw that someone asked him about it, and he said he didn't know about that question, so I linked him to it.

Anyhoo..

 

[Portugeezer]

In the same world where people think a 40% power advantage won't result in anything tangible...