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2010 Game of the Year Media Picks Thread: Updated 1/4
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
iirc, Borderlands failed to recieve a game of the year award from anyone anywhere, yet 2K still published a "game of the year" edition. So yeah, it really doesn't matter these days.SonOfABeep said:
Cheesemeister
Member
CerebralTiger said:
Thanks for posting, but these two won't load for me at all. Could somebody post the relevant quotes and authors? It'd be much appreciated.
slaughterking
Member
Gamefocus:Cheesemeister said:
Meristation:
Don't speak no Espanol, though. No idea what Meristation has to say about its choice.
mujun said:
What gets chosen in voting. Multiplayer games, historically, have always been far more popular than single player games. I'm reluctant to use an argument ad populi, but it does present a good launching point for discussion of the disconnect between game reviewers and players.
As I said and Anihawk added to, all 4 of the last game of the year winners have been 1) console games that may or may not have PC versions, 2) single player focused, 3) story driven, and 4) made by westerners. This despite the fact that most of the biggest games this generation are multiplayer, most of the biggest games this generation are made by Japanese studios, and that both handhelds and PC gaming have sold far better than consoles have.
I believe most video game reviewers grew up with Ataris and NES or perhaps even SNES and PS1. I point this out because its only in the last 30 years or so that single player games have become so prominent, mostly as a direct consequence of technological prohibitors preventing multiplayer gaming. As soon as technology improved, multiplayer games began to reascend to their former prominence, but many players were by that point accustomed to single player games and find multiplayer gaming off putting or "lesser." I believe most game reviewers have long since created a specific world view about what a great game is. And again, that great game tends to be 1) on consoles, 2) single player, 3) story driven. Recently, they also happen to be made by western studios.
mujun said:Oh...
I hope the single player game lives on, very little interest in MP games myself
Oh I certainly don't hope that single player games go away entirely. I hope there is plenty for you to play for the rest of your life.
I'm just noting that these single player, story driven games are given disproportionate focus by the media.
mescalineeyes
Banned
Des0lar said:
wut?!
Opiate said:
Both of these comments are quite debatable. Outside of Nintendo how are most of this generations biggest games anywhere clsoe to being Japanese made and PC gaming have sold far better than consoles have. When did this happen. I mean are we talking about Farmville here or WoW installs every other year. Even on the handheld side I'm not sure the SW markets are even close. Not in the US I know for certain. Likely far better in Japan and maybe about the same or a bit better than the US for Europe if I had to guess. We have had some reports on retail sales of PC in the US with some DD hints and even then the big games like COD it's still not really close.
Last time I checked GTA IV hit 17 million and MW2 over 20. Probably as comparable as any Nintendo title not called Wii Sports packed in.... Now you can't really say most of the biggest games are multi yet most of the biggest games are Japanese. These are western based franchises. If anything I'd say there has been a real decline Japanese hits this generation outside Nintendo first party. Save a handful has there been any real hits from Japanese publishers not named Nintendo this generation outside Japan. Nowhere close to 17 or 20 million that is for sure. It's not simply about sales however it is about quality and SMG has won tons of GOTY awards for that department. 15 in 2007 to be exact.
Let's take RDR with 8 million this year to the end of October iirc. I'd say that is a hit for 6 months on only 2 consoles. What compares to that this generation from Japan publishers not named Nintendo. Even with Nintendo first party I'd say 8 million is even comparable to just about anything from Nintendo this gen in six months not packed-in.
Jtyettis said:
There aren't any. Why on earth would you exclude Nintendo? They have 5 or 6 of the 10 biggest games of the entire generation.
Of course. And flash games. Why on earth would we not include these? Can you not see the absurd bias in "Nintendo and WoW and Farmville don't count?"
It's like asking, "If you take out all the hugely successful Japanese and PC games, what Japanese or PC games have been hugely successful?"
I believe the DS has sold significantly more software in the US than the Xbox 360 has. Nintendo's sales charts have shown that consistently every year until this one (As the DS begins to wind down). It has certainly sold considerably more hardware.
The best selling franchises this generation, off the top of my head without rigorous fact checking, are:
World of Warcraft
Farmville
Wii Sports
Wii Fit
Grand Theft Auto
Call of Duty
Nintendogs
New Super Mario Brothers
Mario Kart
Guitar Hero
I'm likely forgetting one or two, but as you can see, half are Japanese (5/10), more than half are multiplayer (7/10). A few have debatable characteristics -- for example, how does one measure the revenue Farmville has brought in? Do we count Mario Brothers as a single player or multiplayer title?
My goodness. What is this absurd "let's ignore the biggest video game publisher in the world" meme?
Why on Earth are you being so absurd? Of course I'm including Nintendo. You cannot possibly claim to be a reasonable person and exclude what is by a wide margin the most succesful video game publisher in the world. As far as I can tell, the only reason you keep insisting on excluding them is that it ruins your argument.
I don't see why the most popular games should automatically get media awards. It's not like the most popular movies automatically get the Academy Awards. Same thing with books.
If anything, popularity is too strongly correlated with the awards, probably because the medium is still immature.
If anything, popularity is too strongly correlated with the awards, probably because the medium is still immature.
Opiate said:
Nintendo quality titles are included on these GOTY lists it just happens to be one that stands out. No one is ignoring Nintendo because the GOTY quality games are included. Japanese publishers outside Nintendo have produced just about notta however. As for the DS I can pull the SW chart for this year in the US compared to the home consoles.
This is this year to October;
So this is the 360's fifth year compared to what for the DS? That is one platform and you are saying that the PS3 and 360 combined do not compare? Yea. 1 Billion more for the 360 alone this year to October. Add in the PS3 market talking $2.4 billion.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
Well, the medium and the audience.Durante said:
I agree, which is why I said I'm hesitant to ever use an argument ad populi.
However, this is importantly different than movies. In film, it isn't as if critics constantly pick from a very specific subset of the medium. It would be as if critics consistently picked only films that were small budget, adult dramas.
But that isn't the case. The problem isn't just that game critics consistently defy popular opinion, it's that they constantly pick titles from the same small, concentrated subset of gaming.
Also significant differences between films and games: in film, small budget or foreign films are generally perceived to be critical favorites. In gaming, the opposite is true: the games that win the awards are typically the big budget blockbusters that deliberately position themselves like summer action films. In addition, there is far less emphasis placed on appearances in film. Films certainly aren't discredited for being special effects extravaganzas, but it's nothing like gaming, where graphics criticisms are built directly in to the game's overall score.
In short, I'm not a big fan of games-movies comparisons. Film critics are far more respected and established than their gaming counterparts, and for very good reasons.
However, this is importantly different than movies. In film, it isn't as if critics constantly pick from a very specific subset of the medium. It would be as if critics consistently picked only films that were small budget, adult dramas.
But that isn't the case. The problem isn't just that game critics consistently defy popular opinion, it's that they constantly pick titles from the same small, concentrated subset of gaming.
Also significant differences between films and games: in film, small budget or foreign films are generally perceived to be critical favorites. In gaming, the opposite is true: the games that win the awards are typically the big budget blockbusters that deliberately position themselves like summer action films. In addition, there is far less emphasis placed on appearances in film. Films certainly aren't discredited for being special effects extravaganzas, but it's nothing like gaming, where graphics criticisms are built directly in to the game's overall score.
In short, I'm not a big fan of games-movies comparisons. Film critics are far more respected and established than their gaming counterparts, and for very good reasons.
Jtyettis said:
I'm not suggesting that critics are biased against Nintendo in particular. I'm suggesting they're biased against multiplayer games that have little or no story, and are Japanese.
This does not mean that Japanese/multiplayer/story free games are never included in anyone's GoTY list ever, it means that these games are given far less weight than they should. As evidence, I will again point to the fact that single player, story driven, western made games on PS3/360 have won Game of the Year for 5 years running.
I specifically said up until this year. Now check the previous years: you'll find the DS was quite a bit ahead. The DS is not only older than the 360, but already has a successor announced. I'm not surprised.
You're also only talking about the US market -- although that may be fair, as most of these gaming critics are located in the US.
Jtyettis said:
Now we are combining the PS3 and 360? That was not my intention and I don't think that's reasonable. I am saying the DS was bigger than the PS3 or 360, not the PS3 AND 360. This is more reasonable because 2 of the last 3 GotY winners were 360 or PS3 exclusive at the time (Uncharted 2 last year, Bioshock in 2007).
Opiate said:
If 360 was a billion more than the DS this year to October I'm fairly certain 360 did just fine compared to DS last year, but I'll see what I come across.
Software market as of Nov 2009 in the US(I did not run across any year end comparisons so the best I have atm) ;
However this what you said;
So feel free to make all of the qualifications you want with this statement. Handheld gaming software compared to console gaming right.
mujun said:Yeah, I was just checking to see whether you'd given me an opening to profess my love for the single player game/campaign or not
Of course! I'm glad there is a variety of game designs. It's great that there's so many different ways to play, and I would also be upset if it were the other way around, and only multiplayer games with no story won GotY awards.
Jtyettis said:
Sure. I'll also add iPhone, iPad, and PSP to the mix, if you are going to insist on being so silly (why are you combining the PS3 and 360 but completely ignoring the existence of any handheld systems outside the DS?) Of these platforms, the platform sales are as follows:
DS
iPhone
PSP
360
PS3
iPad
The unit sales of games, as far as I am aware, are as follows:
DS
iPhone
360
PSP
PS3
iPad
Obviously there's some guessing in there, and I'd be willing to accept some changes (particularly the PSP/PS3, which might change places), but the top two are correct.
Lastly, there is revenue of game sales, which is likely in this order:
DS
360
PS3
PSP
iPhone
iPad
And of course, all of this is only in the US.
So, let's talk qualifications. Rather than having me add a long list of qualifications, I contend that you are the one framing this discussion: you are only talking about US sales, only talking about revenue, only providing data for the last year, and completely ignoring the existence of any handheld platforms outside the DS, despite the iPhone's enormous success in general and in gaming in particular. Heck, I didn't even include the Android platform, for which one game is now generating nearly 1 million dollars a month just in ad revenue.
If we change any of these qualifiers -- if we look at unit sales instead of revenue; if we add all the other handhelds and not just the DS; if we look at worldwide sales and not just the US -- your argument becomes nearly untenable.
Edit: I have some chores to do in real life, so I won't be able to respond any further until later today. I apologize, but I wanted to explain because I know it can be frustrating when someone you are talking with suddenly stops responding.
GillianSeed79
Member
To be fair, RDR had a pretty ambitious MP component. It wasn't exactly perfect and no where near as popular as say, CoD, but it was a pretty fun mix of co-op and competitive MP game types. It's a shame they focused so much on the competitive MP because the persistent open world MP was much more interesting.
Adding in the old iphone now I see, nice. Yea when was the last time any of these previous years did the GOTY reviewers include iphone games. Anyhow, I pulled the chart for Nov 09 that says it all. Right, not supposed to do revenue share now right? Basing Farmville on what then. Come on.
I'm basing data off NPD analysis we all do here. When you say handheld gaming in the context of GOTY SW compared to consoles well what other qualification should there be based on what these reviewers included every other year.
Anyways, first it wasn't comparing 360/PS3 to DS. Throwing in the PSP for the US really isn't going to make any kind of dent either. Then it was just the 360 to DS and now it's with iphone.
Gotcha.
Most of this analysis should be US or at least western based because that is where these awards are based on.
I'm basing data off NPD analysis we all do here. When you say handheld gaming in the context of GOTY SW compared to consoles well what other qualification should there be based on what these reviewers included every other year.
Anyways, first it wasn't comparing 360/PS3 to DS. Throwing in the PSP for the US really isn't going to make any kind of dent either. Then it was just the 360 to DS and now it's with iphone.
Gotcha.
Most of this analysis should be US or at least western based because that is where these awards are based on.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Opiate said:
Adam Sessler actually said something extremely similar recently except with terms of quality. "If we ignore all the good Japanese, PC, and cartoony games from this gen, have there been any good ones?" And he said it completely seriously as well while bemoaning the lack of quality in these areas and while listing good ones that he said didn't count because they weren't on the PS3 and 360. It really showed off how game critics think.
Wired: SCII
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/12/20-best-games-2010/?pid=783&viewall=true
Perfect Exmaple. Not an iphone game in sight yet includes "portable gaming". This is exactly what someone would think when comparing GOTY SW between "handhelds and consoles". You make the comparison yet as a qualification these games rarely come up before this year. When there is real value in iphone games to make GOTY lists by reviewers at the top then we can make that comparison.
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/12/20-best-games-2010/?pid=783&viewall=true
Perfect Exmaple. Not an iphone game in sight yet includes "portable gaming". This is exactly what someone would think when comparing GOTY SW between "handhelds and consoles". You make the comparison yet as a qualification these games rarely come up before this year. When there is real value in iphone games to make GOTY lists by reviewers at the top then we can make that comparison.
Cheesemeister said:
Not sure if it counts but Gameplanets Readers Choice Awards (bottom of article) voted for Red Dead Redemption. The editorial staff will be publishing the Websites choice soon I believe.
Cheesemeister
Member
Gen X said:
When the editors announce their choice, that'll be counted.
Cheesemeister
Member
It looks like MeriStation was a reader vote.
Google Translate said:
Lion Heart
Banned
Heavy Rain GOTY on CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/gaming.gadgets/12/29/best.games.2010/index.html?iref=NS1
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/gaming.gadgets/12/29/best.games.2010/index.html?iref=NS1
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Is it? I'm not sure that list is actually in sequential order. Seems to be just a broad 'best 10' in no exact order. Plus its not really CNN's GOTY as even the article describes it as "CNN gaming contributor Scott Steinberg offers his favorite video games of the year". But then again, I'm not sure what criteria Cheesemeister is using to validate these picks.Lion Heart said:
Lion Heart
Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Not much different than Times GOTY in the way its handled. Is the OP still updating the OP?
Cheesemeister
Member
grandjedi6 said:
If it were in no particular order, it'd be alphabetical. It's numbered and not alphabetical.
Basically, the only requirements are that the editor(s) of a particular media outlet name a single GOTY by their own opinion(s) and not by reader votes. Last year one guy declared a tie between two games and they each got half a point. Cases where several editors each rattle off a list and no single GOTY is declared don't get counted.
Lion Heart said:
Yes, I'll be updating the OP as long as new media GOTYs for this year are found.
acevans2 said:
I've updated the OP with CNN and The Totally Rad Show (Heavy Rain) and Softpedia (Fallout: New Vegas).
jonnybryce
Member
Wow at Alan Wake winning Time's. Didn't think it would win anything. I think the game tried something new and was somewhat successful. I was very discouraged by it's design. What started out as something uncomfortable and creepy boiled down to a strict routine - run through forest at night, see day cinematic.
I've only played the demo of Heavy Rain but I feel like I would lean towards Heavy Rain as the game that did thrills/"cinematic" storytelling better. I'll pick it up soon to decide. I'm really happy it's getting recognition.
I've only played the demo of Heavy Rain but I feel like I would lean towards Heavy Rain as the game that did thrills/"cinematic" storytelling better. I'll pick it up soon to decide. I'm really happy it's getting recognition.
SolidSnakex
Member
Extreme Gamer: RDR
http://www.extremegamer.ca/features/10/goty2010goty.php
http://www.extremegamer.ca/features/10/goty2010goty.php
