cpp_is_king
Member
After seeing what happened in Texas, I think I'm now in support of open carry. As a result of open carry laws in Texas, many public businesses have banned both open and concealed carry in one fell swoop.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
3 arrested for trashing Trump supporters sign, pulling gun on him
- Thread starter BennyBlanco
- Start date
- Status
After seeing what happened in Texas, I think I'm now in support of open carry. As a result of open carry laws in Texas, many public businesses have banned both open and concealed carry in one fell swoop.
Getting support is not my problem. It was asked in this thread how to solve the firearm problem, not how to get popular support to solve the firearm problem. It's two entirely different questions, and the one you are asking is purely political. Campaign, and campaign again, get outraged at every school shooting, etc.
Enforcing is easy. You already have police people roaming the streets, making sure they are safe. They can frisk you if they suspect you are carrying some illegal stuff, I suggest to add firearms to the list of illegal stuff.
And what kind of legislation do you expect a democrat to achieve? The strictest gun law since the 1934 NFA act wasn't even passed by a democrat. It was signed by Reagan, who also supported the assault weapons ban. While democrats support more sensible gun laws (me included as a gun-owning democrat), most don't support a ban.
Actually getting support is your problem. Your biggest problem in fact. Your solution means nothing without the support.
superNESjoe
Member
I'm going to pop down a post that isn't about guns.
This Trump supporter, is he at all...I dunno, surprised that a couple of (presumably) Mexican people are offended by this sign being proudly displayed? Considering the things Turmp has said about Mexicans, is it that outrageous?
The gun makes the whole situation uncalled for, the entire way they acted was uncalled for, and clearly the Trump supporter is the victim here, but is anyone really that surprised these people were violently angry about it?
This Trump supporter, is he at all...I dunno, surprised that a couple of (presumably) Mexican people are offended by this sign being proudly displayed? Considering the things Turmp has said about Mexicans, is it that outrageous?
The gun makes the whole situation uncalled for, the entire way they acted was uncalled for, and clearly the Trump supporter is the victim here, but is anyone really that surprised these people were violently angry about it?
You think open and conceal carry bans stop criminals from bringing guns into said locations?
The hard part of solving the problem is getting support to change the constitution. Once you do that anyone can do the rest. You need to convince the 40% of households in the US to give up something they care passionately about.
You did the equivalent of someone asking how you travel in time and responding "Just step into the time machine and set the date you want to go to!"
So how do you handle people who already own multiple guns outside of your limit of 2? Will they have to turn them in? Who's running the mandatory trainings? Who's paying for them? Will your plan allow for the increased security needed to monitor incoming illegal gun trade? Who's paying them? Who gets to be a restricted dealer? What if you wanted to shoot your gun on your property? Say, shooting targets in your backyard and you live in the middle of the woods. Is that illegal? Will sport/hunting spots be highly regulated? Who's running them? And advocating for random frisking to take place in another post? I won't touch that one.
Your plan is very pie in the sky, if that pie has a ton of holes.
The answer to the supporters of an enabler of violence is not more violence - you are just giving them what they want, and in the process betraying your own principles.
That said, beware isolated demands for rigor and take notice of those who initially did not care when people were assaulted at Trump rallies that have suddenly reversed their stance.
That said, beware isolated demands for rigor and take notice of those who initially did not care when people were assaulted at Trump rallies that have suddenly reversed their stance.
Well good for them. This isn't Australia or Britain. Our laws are different. Our culture is different. Our process for passing laws is different. Again, please explain how you intend to get the support needed to repeal a bill of right. What would it take?
No solution for any problem, ever, means anything without support. I'm not sure what your point is.
People complained that taking guns away in any manner would be unrealistic because of their numbers or whatever. I'm merely showing that it is, in fact, realistic. Whether it can be applied because of popular support is not my problem, my problem was the sheer number of guns "out there" and the apparent unsolvability of it.
Yeah but what are they realistically gonna do?
Let's say this here is an average American family protecting their rights to bear their arms against their tyrannical government who are now out to take them by force.
This is a tiny slice of the tyrannical government's force.
They got 11 more of these fucking things!
I'm putting my money on the people with the Air-To-Ground-Missile weaponry.
yanipheonu
Member
So what are we calling for odds someone finally gets killed at a rally?
I want in on that action.
I want in on that action.
Please tell me this already existed. XD
They don't. I said owning a gun in the privacy of your own house would still be legal. It's buying new ones and carrying anything outside that will be regulated.
The government, with your taxes. Just like your taxes already pays all the regulation enforcement of acquiring and keeping a driving license.
illegal drug trades are already monitored, are they not? You can allocate a budget to monitor that as well, especially if you slow down on the war on drugs. Budgetting is politics, it's not really a problem.
The current legal dealers. There is no reason to force them to close their business, but they would be restricted to sell in their own shops, no more gun shows, no private sales between individuals.
nope, see quote 1. Though, once all the outrage died out and the population is accustomed to the retricted use of firearms, you can carry on and ban illegal discharges in your house, etc. But this is in the far future.
current shooting range will have to apply for a license, if it's not already something in place. If they have the proper security they should have no problem keeping their business alive.
Not random. After suspicion, like it's already happening right now for other illegal stuff.
It's ok, you just have to ask
iamBlkpleAsedoNt
Banned
As others have pointed out 40% of Americans believe the 2nd amendment protects them from the government inflicting it's will upon the people and the people being unable to fight back. When less than half the country supports banning guns and you pass a law to bam guns you're playing into the narrative that that exact amendment protects against. Let me put it this way, how do you ban guns with no bloodshed.
aronnov reborn
Banned
Speaking of anti Trump supporters.... I'm watching his live rally in North Carolina and there's already been 6 protestors... Dude is popular.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Armed citizens outnumber any ground forces 100 to 1, what is an aircraft carrier and jets going to do in a door to door combat zone?
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic with your proposed amendment or just naive.
Honestly I expected to read a story about Trump supporters pulling out firearems first in a confrontation. Either way it's still terrible and I'm glad people who have to resort to lethal threats were punished. To bad Trump supporters don't have charges brought up against them nearly as much when they do commit to assault.
Carpet bombing your friendly neighbourhood? We're talking about a tyrannical government here.
Coffee Dog
Banned
"guys if the government banned guns crazy gun nuts would shoot at nonviolent government employees that come to collect them"
so you're saying we should ban guns
so you're saying we should ban guns
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Why would they bother when they have drones, etc.
iamBlkpleAsedoNt
Banned
Is there a link with this statistic somewhere that I can view for myself?
They don't. I said owning a gun in the privacy of your own house would still be legal. It's buying new ones and carrying anything outside that will be regulated.
sucks for new owners but at least you're realistic here
The government, with your taxes. Just like your taxes already pays all the regulation enforcement of acquiring and keeping a driving license.
and who's taxes are getting increased here?
illegal drug trades are already monitored, are they not? You can allocate a budget to monitor that as well, especially if you slow down on the war on drugs. Budgetting is politics, it's not really a problem.
its a huge problem. The money doesn't just come from thin air. And saying a slow down on the war on drugs is a huge assumption. We have no idea how bad illegal drug trade could get so we can't hand wave a pretend budget
The current legal dealers. There is no reason to force them to close their business, but they would be restricted to sell in their own shops, no more gun shows, no private sales between individuals.
fair enough
nope, see quote 1. Though, once all the outrage died out and the population is accustomed to the retricted use of firearms, you can carry on and ban illegal discharges in your house, etc. But this is in the far future.
can you explain how this makes any sense at all? People hunt on their property too
current shooting range will have to apply for a license, if it's not already something in place. If they have the proper security they should have no problem keeping their business alive.
sure
Not random. After suspicion, like it's already happening right now for other illegal stuff.
no way this gets taken advantage of. Noooo waaaaayyy
It's ok, you just have to ask
Answers in bold.
iamBlkpleAsedoNt
Banned
Why do you assume the gun loving warmongering military would even go along with this??? If anything they would be on the side of the gun tolting civilian if anything resembling a nationwide gun ban got signed. You generally don't sign up for the military if you hate guns/want them banned from civilians.
timetokill
Banned
This is a tiny slice of the tyrannical government's force.
They got 11 more of these fucking things!
I'm putting my money on the people with the Air-To-Ground-Missile weaponry.
The second one of those is used against the American citizenry, you've basically justified the need for the Second Amendment.
Furthermore, unless robots are manning everything, I doubt all that many soldiers are gonna feel great about carpet bombing Joe and Jane Q. Public in white picket fence suburbia.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
i mean all you have to do to stir up the patriots is paint the fight as a moral battle where the other sides morals are corrupt.
CertifiedFP
Member
To the people who keep posting that stupid "Citizenry v. US Military" strawman:
How do you think the UN and the rest of NATO would react to the US military creating another Syria situation? The scenario you people keep driveby'ing with would be a permanent stain on America's image if the US military ever dared to perform a nation-wide Waco situation. Internally, it would destroy peoples' faith in their government (best case scenario) if an administration decided to both ban guns AND then project MILITARY FORCE in order to enforce it.
Do you people understand the implications of a nation using military force on its own citizens in order to enforce laws? Have you people SEEN (pre-invasion) Ukraine and Syria?
How do you think the UN and the rest of NATO would react to the US military creating another Syria situation? The scenario you people keep driveby'ing with would be a permanent stain on America's image if the US military ever dared to perform a nation-wide Waco situation. Internally, it would destroy peoples' faith in their government (best case scenario) if an administration decided to both ban guns AND then project MILITARY FORCE in order to enforce it.
Do you people understand the implications of a nation using military force on its own citizens in order to enforce laws? Have you people SEEN (pre-invasion) Ukraine and Syria?
Bigboss242
Banned
That would cause a cival war and no I am not giving up my gun.
Leithkorias
Member
We already don't arrest illegals, why give the government another law they can pick and choose when to enforce? Why have laws at all if we aren't going to enforce them? You want to give police yet another reason to profile, discriminate against, incarcerate and even kill more people of color?
7DollarHagane
Banned
I wonder sometimes what makes the war on drugs ineffective and a waste of money, but a gun ban or seizure would be the greatest thing this country could do?
Isn't the answer to both more complicated than a law enforced seizure and banning?
Isn't there reason to educate gun owners and make it more difficult to be a gun owner without a full ban?
It's not as simple as a ban which would create more problems then it would solve. How many criminals or gangs or cartels would be eager to serve a gun hungry country that bans guns?
I think the balance is shifted way too far on the side of gun ownership VS gun control but a ban is crazy talk. More rules, more checks, more education.
Isn't the answer to both more complicated than a law enforced seizure and banning?
Isn't there reason to educate gun owners and make it more difficult to be a gun owner without a full ban?
It's not as simple as a ban which would create more problems then it would solve. How many criminals or gangs or cartels would be eager to serve a gun hungry country that bans guns?
I think the balance is shifted way too far on the side of gun ownership VS gun control but a ban is crazy talk. More rules, more checks, more education.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You're kind of all over the place with this post
LOL I have about $20,000 in guns and accessories. You think the USA is going to write me that check? Nope... Even if they did once uncle Sam takes his tax cut I'm getting royally screwed.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I mean, if we're really seriously discussing this, I wouldn't want to put my money on the ASMs. Bombing your own people usually doesn't look good and the crazies with the guns engaging in guerrilla warfare would be a real PITA to dislodge, just like all the other guerrilla wars this country has unsuccessfully engaged in.
I mean yeah, it would literally be playing right into the fears of these people. You would be proving their fears (that people claim are illegitimate) to be true. Terrible idea.
Really sad.
My thoughts with these Trump supporters and their families. This experience must have been pretty traumatic
They are heralds of the new world, so pls don´t be afraid of them
Trumpeting the Truth as a revolutionary act
Dark days for American democracy
Can't quote quotes, but that will allow us to slow down on the quote wars.
I can't talk about hunting on your own property, to be honest. It's one of the sensible case where you could use your gun on your property I assume. Though aren't there already limitations on hunting in the USA, like how, what, when, and where? They could apply to your personal acre of wood.
I'm not handwaving the money problem, but this is mainly a political problem. Once the guidelines are set by a willing government, budgets can be moved around, (de)allocated, taxes be raised etc. And I mean your taxes, like anyone else's. I don't have time right now to precisely budget the specific costs and tell you exactly how much more you will have to pay, sorry.
[edit] I'm just saying that the American Gun Problem can be solved fairly easily if there is political willingness and public support. The amount of guns out there isn't a problem, the crazy gun-toting people isn't either. Responsible gun-owners, hunters and sports shooters would not be impacted by sensible yet strict regulations and an armed revolution won't happen.
You mean $200 in gift cards isn't fair value lol
TheOohChild
Member
How do you gamble with your freedom over a yard sign?
888
Member
I'll give you an example. My wife bought a Beretta U22 Neos pistol for plinking. Three day wait period and quite a bit of paper work. ID, background check etc. In that County there is also a three day wait period for long guns such as shotguns or a target rifle such as a Ruger 10/22.
30 minutes north there still is a wait period for handguns but not long guns. I can go right now and buy one but I still need to pass a background check and ID.
If you have a ccw you don't have a wait period.
Also any form of damage or evidence of tampering to your ID, even to buy ammo and you get shutdown. My friend went to buy at a Walmart and his license is cracked. They told him they wouldn't sell him ammo and asked him to leave the store. I have always been forced to show ID.
Now private sales is mostly where I view the gun problem to be. My friend gave me a Beretta 92FS about 6 years ago as a anniversary gift. No form of registration needed. As a gun owner that bothers me. You can do deals on arms list and just buy guns like you can on Craigslist. Now all states are a bit different and even down to counties.
Gun shows here you can't walk out right away with a gun. Most of the time you have to go pick it up or pay a transfer fee to a local shop.
I am in favor of at least registration. Granted if you are caught buying a gun for someone else you can get in legal trouble for sure but if I decided to sell one of mine to someone privately I have no way of performing a background check etc. I think private sales is where the biggest issue is.
But the way I view it is the gun my wife bought, the serial is registered that she bought it and passed the background test. But I believe that is as far as it goes.
iamBlkpleAsedoNt
Banned
Sooo I know this turned into a gun thread and it seems like there's a consensus on why banning guns and then attempting to enforce that ban by military force would be a very BAD idea....so let's collectively redirect to the actual topic of this thread
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I would love to see that but this thread was derailed in 1 post.
iamBlkpleAsedoNt
Banned
Did you miss the Rubio/Cruz exchange mid-debate?
I'm no Trump supporter, but the replies in this thread...
This is probably the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've read in many years of GAF.
Hey that's some nice victim blaming y'all have brought into the thread. I guess he was asking for it, huh? Just for his political opinions?
No. How about even if you disagree with someone's politics, that doesn't justify a violent act against them.
This is probably the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've read in many years of GAF.
Hey that's some nice victim blaming y'all have brought into the thread. I guess he was asking for it, huh? Just for his political opinions?
No. How about even if you disagree with someone's politics, that doesn't justify a violent act against them.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Since I was called out and you clearly don't understand hyperbole, point out where I said he asked for getting a gun pulled on him.
- Status