More_Badass
Member
World generation can keep up with flight. In the tech video, he goes faster than any possible speed in debug mode to outrun the generation
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4 minutes of No Man's Sky gameplay (w/ RAW AUDIO)
- Thread starter Icyflamez96
- Start date
This isn't an issue. See More_Badass above
UncleSporky
Member
It's probably easier to trust GTA when there have been GTA games in the past that give us a good idea of what the mechanics are similar to.
"Reading what the devs say you can do" isn't believing. Seeing is believing.
If you think a dev's word is all we should need in order to trust what's going to be in a game and how fleshed out/fun that mechanic is, then boy oh boy, you'll have a lot of fun on Kickstarter. Lofty promises around every corner.
More_Badass
Member
Actually the way it works is that the whole planet is generated at low detail, so say at the top of a peak, you could still see the curvature of the planet and other features in the distance. As you get closer, the game generates more details down to the rocks on the ground and such
Hate going off topic, but you will not find one scientist worth their salt back up your statement. You have absolutely have ZERO idea about what alien biology can be like. No offense, but that is a very ignorant statement.
You cannot calibrate you're expectations of life based on the Earth-model. The universe is fucking huge and we are nothing but an insignificant spec in a single galaxy.
More_Badass
Member
As someone with a lot of experience with Kickstarters, you never just go by words alone. The number one rule is to never back anything that is just words and promises.
But words + footage + progress updates + documented development + behind-the-scenes explanations of gameplay and mechanics and tech? That's how you make informed opinions and decisions
I assume this is coming from your extensive knowledge on the subject. That and the fact that you visited all the known and unknown solar systems visible from Earth.
Otherwise it's just a dumb statement.
The Elite
BOSS
1. Arguably there have been other successful space sim games like this one - e.g. Elite, X3, etc. Which have been compelling to play. They just haven't had this scale or this specific 'lite' gameplay approach. They also haven't had destructible planets and procedural wildlife, etc.
2. The "dev's word" is not all we have to go on for this game. A large collection of journalists have now played it and given their direct feedback/experiences. We know what it's like, straight from the horses mouth.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
But do you expect to go that fast in a ship within the atmosphere though, in the final game? I'd love it if that were the case.
UncleSporky
Member
Actually there have been games with procedural wildlife, and maybe that's why people are skeptical, because all they have to compare it to is Spore.
Or for another example, if we want to know what it's like to explore a massive generated planet, just walk around and see the sights and harvest some natural resources, we can fire up Minecraft and get our fill of exploration, and see if we can expect to be entertained by that aspect. And I'd wager a lot of people aren't, after the first hour of walking. That's why stuff like the crafting and dogfighting and NPC interaction is so critical.
AltissimaRatio
Banned
Dudes stop hating on me for my Opinion. And it is no hate from me . I stated multiple Times that iam also hyped like you, but off course theres something i dont like too much. Did you had a Game in Past wich met 100% off your Expectations?
And even if so - maybe iam just a little more critical - no big deal.
See? Thats the Thing with Laws of Physics - if you know them well you just dont Need to be everywhere. You can extrapolate the possible life Conditions..
If life finds a comfortable place to exist it may expands to more harsh Enviroments. But the more harsh it is the more simple the lifeforms gonna get. And a tardigrade is not exactly well known for its complexity.
But ist is right this Discussion is going too far Offtopic..so no further Comment from me to the Physics Stuff ..
Icyflamez96
Member
Way to ignore all of the other points you listed that does make this an RPG by your definition.
I stated that No Man's Sky has all of these things, along with a story/lore, that's not outright told to you, like in Dark Souls, a game that's is unanimously considered an RPG. I never said "just because a game has a story makes it an RPG." Have no idea where you construed that from.
Oh please. I couldn't care less about this ulterior agenda you wish to think I have.
Yes, NMS isn't going to be TW3, a game with tons of characters and cutscenes delivering narrative dialgoue to take you through it's plot (surprise!). But it is like Dark Souls in the way that there will be lore/story, it's just not told to you outright and you easily could ignore it if you wanted to.
Not that it would matter to your point. Most players don't pay attention to the lore in Dark Souls. Anyway, lore uncovering opportunities shouldn't be an extremely rare occurrence or anything. 2 ways to uncover lore that we know of involves learning words from the language of NPC aliens, and finding artifacts.
I've always thought of this game to be very much like an open ended RPG for the reasons I discussed. But you don't even consider Dark Souls an RPG, which is weird in it of itself. If you can't agree with that then your stance on this is no surprise.
More_Badass
Member
1) Comparing this game and Spore because they both use procedural generation is like comparing Braid and Life Is Strange because they both feature time rewinding. Two completely different genres, two completely different goals and gameplay, and NMS's generation tech is far more complex and advanced than anything in Spore
2) After an hour, you aren't even going to be off your first planet, so no, I doubt people will get tired after an hour. Also the goal isn't to just explore; perhaps you can liken the planets to "dungeons" with space being the "overworld", as you need to enter them to gather what you need to continue your journey. You scan for points of interest and resources, prep the gear to survive the surface, gather loot and knowledge on the planet, and continue onward.
Feel free to say your opinions - I welcome it. My issue was that you made an absolute statement about the universe. A statement that cannot be proven.
Nothing to do with you being skeptical about the game.
Icyflamez96
Member
Care to explain how it doesn't at all resemble an RPG?
This is a prime comparison to RPG-esque progression. You can grind for resources and units in multiple ways, whether it's just destroying ships, exploiting a trade route, collecting resources on planets, or you could just discover creatures/plants and get credits that way. You then allocate those resources to permanently upgrade your multitool/suit in whatever way you please. Much like many RPG "leveling up" systems where you build up resources/experience and then allocate them into a skill tree.
I really hope this is true (or somewhat true). I was already excited for NMS but when I think about it like this, I'm even more excited for it.
That looks a lot like Out There's conversation system. Interesting...
And honestly that part of an RPG I don't think is the most important part. I guess I'm old school but I think the most important part is how well it allows you to roleplay. Levelling up and customization is just a part by allowing you to start building your character towards the way you want to play him. It's a tool to help roleplay (in that you are building your character towards your playstyle) but not the thing that makes it a roleplaying game. Being able to customize/modify your gear really has the same effect. You get to customize your gear towards how you are playing your character. Different tool for the same effect as levelling up your character.
As I said, thinking that progression/levelling up is the main thing in an RPG is how we get people who some how think Borderlands, or worse, Bioshock, are RPGs. And that ends up with us getting shitty RPGs when companies think that's all RPG fans want or what they want. That and thinking that RPG means fantasy game as well.
I mean No Man's Sky really lets you roleplay well. You don't have to fight to get through. You can play your character as a trader or some one who stealths through. You are very open to play your character how you want. Many RPGs aren't even that open (Witcher for example since it's a set character still assumes you are going to fight through most the problems). You are left to tackle the problems however you want to do it. ANd play your character however you want (do you want to be a pirate? Help this faction? Go against this faction?). To me that is the most important part of an RPG, letting you figure out how your character is going to tackle the problems. Not just assume this is how you do it. It's actually one reason I prefer Bethesda games over Witcher (sorry Witcher fans). I don't think making you play a certain character though makes Witcher not an RPG, it still allows you to roleplay Geralt as you feel within reasons as to who Geralt is. But I like the more open RPGs that more let you define your character more.
You even get to dialogue with some NPCs and even better, a mechanic I would love to see in other RPGs, having to learn the language as well (that gets pretty deep in roleplaying as computer RPGs go. Most assume you magically know all languages. I'd love to see this implemented in Elder Scrolls. Maybe there is a common language but different races have their own and you can find out more stuff if you know their language).
More_Badass
Member
I mean, that's pretty much how it works. We know there are wrecked spaceships and buildings with blueprints, you can get weapon/etc. from NPCs, you gather resources to craft between equipment or to sell at stations, you need specialized gear to survive conditons (ie surviving a cold planet is going to require different gear than exploring a water world) and then you leave, enter space again,and move onto your next planet
That's the gameplay loop. Travel, land, explore/mine/craft/survive, upgrade. Although Sean has said you can play without ever landing on a planet and just going from station to station, buying low and selling high.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
This is getting annoying honestly. The first part eas even more unnecessary. See you guys in the Ot
More_Badass
Member
Arguably that would make "immersive sims" like STALKER and space sims like Elite more RPG than some RPGS. Since they're so freeform and rely on different systems and mechanics to let you play different roles
Actually I had made a thread about that last month
Vincent Grayson
Member
No character creation or narrative, no strong narrative (which, IMO, is a huge part of what makes a game an RPG), customizing/finding gear does not make a game an RPG (as that exists in damn near every game that isn't a puzzle game), and more importantly than negative statements about what it isn't, the game is (IMO) very clearly a survival/exploration game, writ large.
It seems to have far more in common with the popular survival game genre, and space games like Elite Dangerous than any game I would call an RPG.
CheDominik
Member
More_Badass
Member
I disagree with strong narrative. In fact I prefer RPGs that don't have so strong a narrative they box me in. Fallout New Vegas is my prime example of a really good RPG in that it has a good story that serves as background but is very open on who you play. You define your character, you define your character's story. The story they provide is background that gives you a setting to what your character has to deal with (but you still are given control over the story your character ends up being in). Bu I see NMS in a very similar light story wise except it's more open and less defining with its story (and honestly I'm not sure it will be as open as we think... it seems he wants us to be surprised by the story as he's being very closed mouth on it. I'm kinda hoping the background I'm going to give my character in NMS will fit with the story as I'm not sure it will work once I know the story).
Anyways... I could see it argued either way. But it definitely has elements that strongly will attract RPGers (like the ones who like the actual roleplaying part of an RPG). I know I tend to prefer RPGs over other games and this one has me all excited about playing my character in it. Honestly after the disappointment of Fallout 4 (Where Bethesda gets worse about assuming the character you play - their dialogue options all assume you want to be a good guy) and missing a more Fallout New Vegas game, I love that this one is going to have the same thing New Vegas had. A very open story that lets me define my character's story within the world's story.
- plenty of all-time-great RPGs don't have character creators. The Witcher 3? Planescape?
- this game has a narrative. At the moment, we only know it has one or two plot points. But they say there is a lot under wraps.
- the game has a backstory/lore. One which is apparently very broad and deep - we know, at least, that there is backstory behind the sentinels, backstory behind your existence, and backstory behind the various alien races in the world
- levelling up, getting experience, and improving your character is a common feature of RPGs.
I mean, Elite (original) and X3 are definitely arguably RPGs. You just control a spaceship instead of a human (or you control a human controlling a space ship). There are loads of stats, loads of character creation and development, loads of mission choices and narratives.
The term "role playing videogame" is very broad, and what you're defining it as is what you would like to define it as, based on the role playing games you like.
Something like 10% will have complex life? Or something. Maybe sentient life. The 10% stat was bandied about recently.
Throwaway123456789
Member
The two (out of three) I saw during the demo were all humanoids.
Using this guy's definition:
DocSeuss said:
I would argue you could view RPGs as sims of being a character in that story and the stats/abstractions are more just ways to represent the world/simulate it. I mean all of his definition seems to come from old school paper and dice RPGs where they couldn't do real time and the dice and stats were to simulate the world so that you couldn't just say, "My character did this" without something impartial deciding if your character could do it (basically something deciding based on how good your character is if he could actually do it. And simulating the rules/physics of the world the character is in so that you couldn't just make anything up). Original computer RPGs tried to take this system and have a computer roll the dice/manage the story (like the dungeon master would). But it still was trying to simulate a world for you but doing so in the way paper and dice would. Computer RPGs have kinda morphed from that. But I think essentially roleplaying/simulating really are trying to do the same thing. Simulate a world, give you rules, and have you be free to play how you want within that set of rules.
Not every game is for everyone. I hate sports game, but don't go around advertising it lol.
Awesome, I was worried that the game could become an endless visit to the zoo.
More_Badass
Member
Yeah, the thought process is that if lush worlds filled with creatures are common, then the special nature of those discovery is lost
Thor Molecules
Member
No they just turned it up for the demos. Most planets will be lifeless.
It's actually going to be like 1%. 10% of planets might have SOME kind of life on them, but only around 1% will be the kinds of planets we keep seeing in the trailers.
CarbonFire
Member
You have a source for this? In the Giant Bomb interview, Sean specifically states that 9 out of 10 planets will be "reasonably barren" compared to that 1 "utopian" planet teeming with life. That could mean, reasonably, that we might find some sort of life on the other planets, but those will still be mostly barren or inhospitable rocks. The giant worm desert planet from the original reveal could very well be one of those 9 out of 10.
1% would mean you'd have to visit on average 99 "boring" planets to find one interesting one with lots of life on it. And while that would be closer to reality, that would make for a pretty boring game overall.
Kadayi
Banned
You're conflating freedom of action with 'role'. A role is a definitive part within a narrative.It's not merely the action of driving an avatar in an experience. A chess player is not role playing when they move a pawn and I'm not role playing when I knife fools in counter-strike.
^ on point
I really wish I could play the press demo for NMS. In concept the game seems AMAZING and I'm super down with the idea of being a space wildlife scientist or whatever, but I'm slightly concerned with me not personally finding the game fun when it's in my hands. Because all these cool open-ended concepts won't be super fun if my ship controls like ass and my character moves terribly or something.
I like the concept enough to really want to throw down on the Explorer's Edition, but there's a voice in my head speaking at a reasonable volume reminding me that I could come potentially out of this bummed out.
I like the concept enough to really want to throw down on the Explorer's Edition, but there's a voice in my head speaking at a reasonable volume reminding me that I could come potentially out of this bummed out.
Has there been any pictures or videos of planets where its dark or raining?, at the moment all the pictures and videos i have seen look all very cutesy, with bold bright colours...its like your high on LSD all the time. I would like to see more atmospheric planets something like the planet LV-426 from Alien, where its dark, windy and raining!
I had the same concern when there was raw audio released a few months back... during the B-Roll of the time... the planets sounds too noisy with too many high pitch sounds (some of the time). Let's not hope I'll be taking my earphones off half the time or turning the volume way down...
Nothing can survive -273 (0 Kelvin). Thermodynamics basically break at that point. But Tardigrades can survive 1K, aka -272C. Just FYI
MADGAME
Member
I agree with your skepticism, but for me what I've seen/know/think I know is enough to gamble on the pre-order.
If you read backwards in the thread, you will see the following example responses to others who voiced similar concerns and want to see more:
~ It would spoil the mechanics/story/discovery
~ Either trust the devs or don't
~ If you don't like what you've been shown or are still unsure with the information we currently have, the game probably isn't for you.
Icyflamez96
Member
Yes, so on point when every RPG has character creation and every RPG has a strong/strict narrative. It just sounds like you guys are defining role playing games based on a slice of RPGs that is more narrow than it is in reality. Because in reality, games like Dark Souls (a game that doesn't have a strict narrative) and Kingdom Hearts (a game without character creation) are almost unanimously considered RPGs by the masses at large. You guys are saying these are elements that need to be in a game to make it an RPG, but that simply doesn't hold true outside of your bubble.
ichtyander
Member
There's a The Verge article from 2014, but I think Sean phrased it this way a few other times as well:
But I think that we should maybe look at this in terms of "level types", not necessarily about the amount of gameplay opportunities available on these planets.
One obvious shortage on these "boring" planets would be the lack of fauna (and I think that's what Sean's mainly talking about when saying life), and maybe even flora, which translates in gameplay terms to less chances for discovering, scanning and uploading data on animals and plants (for money) and less danger from being attacked by predators as well as Sentinels, if you chose to attack an innocent animal etc. I'd go as far to say that I think a lot of the "boring" planets will have some form of flora at least, patches of grass maybe, some cacti, bulbous whatevers etc. Also some ancient architecture scattered from time to time.
That still leaves you with finding blueprints (new crafting recipes), crashed ships, crystals, minerals (all for mining), artifacts (unknown, maybe lore related, special upgrades, who knows), language monoliths (better trading and interactive opportunities), breaking into abandoned facilities and hacking them (again, for resources/money), finding a portal that leads you to a resource-rich planet filled with danger (risk and reward) and then there's the NPC ships that do their stuff, fly around, some attack you while hovering in orbit, and possible a few other gameplay opportunities we don't know about yet etc.
Looking at it that way, all of the "boring" stuff I mentioned is actually the crux of the game, something you'll be doing most of the time (earning money and gathering resources in dangerous situations).
Also, I don't think most players will even land on every single planet in a solar system, or even most planets. Once people get used to the mechanics and some of the awe of landing on various planets, they might spend a portion of their time just flying from orbit to orbit, scanning from above and deciding to land only on the planets that have a sufficient number of valuable points of interest. Maybe you see a purple icon from time to time, indicating there's ancient technology in there, so whatever the planet type may be, you'll probably want to land there anyway, and so on.
So anyway, yeah, that Arrakis-like deset planet might very well be one of those "boring" planets Sean's talking about, which should still give lots of interesting opportunities and just aesthetic differences to make it all feel interesting.
SuperCambot
Banned
Love how alien it looks to have rocks and plants just sort of materialize right in front of you - talk about revolutionary!
Thor Molecules
Member
We have seen night and rain. I'll edit this when I find the vids/gifs
EDIT
Rain: https://youtu.be/iKcumrtWzDk?t=19s
Night:
Eclipse:
More_Badass
Member
But neither of those would be considering role-playing, in the sense that games like Elite or STALKER actually challenge you and give the freedom and means to actually play a certain role. Being a pirate/smuggler in Elite or being a successful scavenger in STALKER isn't the same as selecting a move for a pawn in chess or aiming a gun in COD or knifing players in CS. You're not just directing the action; you have to act like that role.