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40 FPS is Becoming a Category in the Console Space

Hugare

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TVs didn't have 120hz until recently. so 40fps was useless back then.



people who don't have 4k TVs are probably still on PS3/360.



40fps is for image quality. it's easier to get an extra 10 frames than a whole 30. when they do a native PS5/SX version of Cyberpunk you would want the most image effects possible and 60fps would be too much.



VRR is best for 60+ frames. below 60fps frame pacing and locked framerates are important.
70% of people in the US dont own a 4k tv

Now imagine the rest of the world

I think you are wrong. One of the biggest reasons many last gen game lacked a performance option is because the imbalance between the weak mobile CPUs used and the stronger GPUs, they simply couldn't handle updating physics and animations at 60 fps for the object density the developers wanted but the GPUs certainly could if they had dropped resolutions. But this gen has some really strong CPUs, well matched to what the GPUs can do. Thus offering a lower res 60fps performance option is not off the table any more. Considering that all first party games and many last gen (patched) now have a 60fps option, I think consumer will be outraged it they launch any future titles with only the shitty 30 fps option available.
"Thus offering a lower res 60fps performance option is not off the table"

I clearly said that as the gen goes on, developers will try to go as low as possible regarding resolution in order to make prettier/more demanding games and reconstruct from 1080p to 4k.

So giving a lower res option will become impossible. Yeah, even with better CPUs, there will be developers pushing the envelope further and further.

Look at Metro Exodus, where PS5/SX run it at 1080p. At 60 fps, sure, but a more demaning game down the line will run at 1080p/30 ... And then what? They will put a 900p 60 fps option? Unlikely
 
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JeloSWE

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So giving a lower res option will become impossible. Yeah, even with better CPUs, there will be developers pushing the envelope further and further.

Look at Metro Exodus, where PS5/SX run it at 1080p. At 60 fps, sure, but a more demaning game down the line will run at 1080p/30 ... And then what? They will put a 900p 60 fps option? Unlikely
It might happen with a few game here and there but I really hope it doesn't become standard to not offer a 60fps option. The fact that they do right now has been the singular best thing about this generation so far and thus one of the best launches for me, I've enjoyed all the first party tiles at 60fps immensely. If they wouldn't offer 60 anymore then I'd either wait for the PC release as I'll always have a power full PC for those games or I'll simply not buy and play the game at all. 30 fps is like putting sandpaper to you eyes.
 
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The cucking for 40fps the past week has been ridiculous. Thought we was all 60fps+ chads.

Kanye West No GIF


Next generation the target will be all games at a strict 60fps with 40fps fancier graphics mode.
 

Hugare

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It might happen with a few game here and there but I really hope it doesn't become standard to not offer a 60fps option. The fact that they do right now has been the singular best thing about this generation so far and thus one of the best launches for me, I've enjoyed all the first party tiles at 60fps immensely. If they wouldn't offer 60 anymore then I'd either wait for the PC release as I'll always have a power full PC for those games or I'll simply not buy and play the game at all. 30 fps is like putting sandpaper to you eyes.
Oh sure, I expect first party titles (from Sony) to be the ones who will push the hardware to 1080p/30.

That would also be a smart way to introduce the PS5 Pro down the line. "Play at 60 on the Pro"

On the Xbox side, they will have to make games for the S. So every game should run easily at 60 fps on the X. Same thing with multiplatform. Unless they ditch the S some years from now.

So I doubt that 30 fps will go away for good, even now with better CPUs.
 
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JeloSWE

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So I doubt that 30 fps will go away for good, even now with better CPUs.
I don't expect 30 to go away but I think it's quite likely performance mode is going to stick around from now on. I work as a graphics/vfx artist, I love high fidelity graphics, art style and tech it's big part of what draws me to a game, but I'll still pick the performance mode every time. 60 just feels fun, 30 feels like walking though mud and it degrades the actual experience.
 
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longdi

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VRR and DRS are the big QOL things, and you can feel the positive difference with VRR for old/constrained hardware. My old 1080ti is still chugging along thanks to VRR, no thanks to gpu mining shortages.
 
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Raonak

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Less framerate = more frame time = more processing power.

40fps is nice, but it require some sacrifices. I think 30fps will still be the standard for Quality modes. And I am a fucking graphics whore I want to play showpiece games at their absolute maximum image quality.
 
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MrFunSocks

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A 40 FPS mode just seems like a weird middle step that will be irrelevant soon enough. VRR is the future and devs just need to target as stable a frame rate as they can get and then VRR takes care of it.

I’m all for devs to add more options though, I just don’t think 40fps is gonna be on more than a handful of games all generation.
 
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Virt McPolygon

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Console gaming is just nothing but compromises. Always has been. I've owned every console for the past 2 decades and haven't been impressed with first party output/use of hardware capabilities to balance framerate and graphical fidelity since probably the PS3/Xbox360 launch era. Just give people more video options at this point. Don't only try to lump shit together as presets.

Can't believe they want people to settle for 40fps in 2021 when a PS3 launch title in 2006 was running 1080p 60fps.

Just design "fun" games to reach 60fps at a minimum. From there, add/manage visual bells and whistles. Maybe charge more for consoles lol

you got this comedy central GIF by Drunk History
 
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Inviusx

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RnC feel okay at 40fps, it's not the shit pile that 30fps is. But when the game already offers 60fps for minimal loss in quality it makes 40 seem sorta useless.

My worry is that in the future 40fps becomes the new performance mode because it's easier to optimise for than 60.
 
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Just give me VRR and aim for 60ish.

Have a cut down locked 60fps mode for people without a VRR TV.

Tried the 40fps mode in R&C and it was still awful. 30fps was ok last gen as most of what I played on console was that framerate so I adjusted quickly but now 99% of what I play is 60fps+ and whole play sessions feel like shit so I just won't bother with stuff under ~60fps anymore.
 
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StateofMajora

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While 40fps is better than 30 it's still very laggy and choppy compared to the creamy smooth feeling of 60 fps, and that is still not even close to how silky smooth 120+ is. I just whish anything below 60 wouldn't ever be allowed in any title what so ever, 60 should be the absolut bare minimum standard all games should run in.
With the hardware the new consoles have, I have to agree that 60 should be the new 30.

And if a game was to be 30fps it better have a damn good reason and I don’t mean better detail.
 

JeloSWE

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its a good solution, its better than 30. 60 with everything flicked on isn't feasible, then I rather have 40.
Where do one draw the line, if you desire maximum fidelity at 30 why not get even more at 25fps, or perhaps 20? Where to draw the line? 60 should be the default minimum fps and then we can try an make games look good at that fps, it has been done countless of times, Demons Souls is a great example of an amazing looking game, it was designed to look great at 60 from the start. If more devs had 60 as the target and build their graphics around it, they would look even better than most performance modes currently does, where they've obviously accommodated 30 first.
 

cireza

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I grew up in PAL land playing Sonic games at 25fps...... I can take ANYTHING.
Which ones ? Because the MegaDrive/Master System games were 50fps, as well as both Sonic Adventure games (and we had 60Hz option starting from the DC). Only one that must be 25fps or less is Sonic R.
 

Allandor

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Well, 40 is certainly better than 30. As a user in PAL territory, I asked for a long time why game consoles don't offer a 50fps mode as most HD-TVs since years are 100Hz capable.

But the problem with my Sony x900h TV is, as soon as I give it a 120Hz signal, the audio has a problem every few seconds (I use the optical out). The only thing that helps is going back to 60 Hz mode.
 
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It's something DF has been wanting for some time according to this, they're working on a full video to try and explain why 40fps makes such a difference for the people who don't understand.
Richard Leadbetter:
Considerably better than 30 frames per second, considerably better.
I'm still holding off buying a full HDMI 2.1 TV but I do hope that this is something that becomes standard where it's achievable.
 

DeepEnigma

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It's something DF has been wanting for some time according to this, they're working on a full video to try and explain why 40fps makes such a difference for the people who don't understand.

I'm still holding off buying a full HDMI 2.1 TV but I do hope that this is something that becomes standard where it's achievable.
Of course it is. You don't need those guys to tell you, your own eyes will tell you.

As I said in the original thread on this,
I’m so down for fidelity at 40fps. Gets rid of that 30fps “judder” and visually looks far closer to 60 than it does 30, regardless of numerical placement.

Need me a Pixar5, yesterday. But I won’t be a part of the problem through scalpers.
And when someone tried it,
Just tried it and I'm really impressed. Feels surprisingly close to 60fps to me, certainly seems to eliminate the slideshow feel, as you say.

Probably the best way to play for me now.
 
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SEGAvangelist

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I hope this 40fps crap doesn't become a thing. It doesn't really feel anywhere close to as smooth as 60fps.
 

DeepEnigma

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This is also a good explanation as the syncing, etc,
nice to see 120 hz being used for higher framerate thresholds

30 fps was a common threshold not only because of hardware limitations, but also as a limitation of 60 hz screens... u either do 30/60 half sync, or 60/60 full vsync for tear and judder free gaming. i bet some games like god of war can run locked 36-40 fps even with a base ps4.

120 hz and 144 hz creates opportunistic thresholds that can be utilized!

30/120 perfect 1/4 sync
40/120 perfect 1/3 sync (imsoniac used this, i'm sure)
60/120 perfect half sync

i hope ps5/xbox also adds a 144 hz support in the future. 144 hz has its own multipliers

36/144 = perfect 1/4 sync
48/144 = perfect 1/3 sync
72/144 = perfect half sync

all in all, pleased to see them giving 120 hz players an opportunistic approach to play at locked sync'ed 40 fps instead of 30 fps! this should be each developer's intentions going forward. sometimes they would just lock games to 30 fps bcoz it wouldn't reach 60 fps. but there might be a strong chnace that these games might lock to 48/40/36 fps that can be perfectly sync'ed with high refreshrate displays

of course, VRR is an altogether beast, and if you have LFC with a 120 hz screen, you don't even need any multipliers or sync points, LFC literally covers everything from 30 frames to 120 frames... but this is an alternate good solution and it has its own benefits (steady input lag, maybe less prone to stutters etc.)

---

they also enabled users to let the screen run at 120 hz even with lower framerate modes, which is fantastic! this should be norm, not exception... it is widely known that even if you run at 30 fps, 120 hz will introduce less input lag. some people act as if 30 fps on 120 hz look worse than it looks on 60 hz but that's a myth i've never experienced myself (i've tried...). in actuality, 120 hz makes 30 fps more barable, gives you little bit less input lag.
 

scydrex

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Why not 40fps? I mean i take 60fps all day but if fidelity mode instead of 30fps can run at 40fps if you have a 120hz tv then why not? I mean if fidelity on 30fps and 40fps is the same graphics, resolution and everything then 40 is the best option along 60fps. Want to see the DF video about Rachet 40fps mode.
 

Hey Blinkin

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I don't know how I managed to play games on 30fps last gen after being spoiled with that sweet 60fps with current gen games.

I've been playing Watch Dogs Legion lately and the graphical differences between the 30 vs 60 fps isn't enough to justify not choosing 60fps.

The more options the better, but I gotta have that 60fps going forward!
 

01011001

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I hope this 40fps crap doesn't become a thing. It doesn't really feel anywhere close to as smooth as 60fps.

well if they have a resolution mode then better 40fps than 30fps. best option would always be to have options to unlock the framerate going forward as VRR tvs become more and more common.
 

Dust-by-Monday

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Sony has never really given a shit about supporting PC monitor standards, they expect you to play on a TV. So it seems unlikely that 1440p or FreeSync will ever happen. I do hope VRR support comes sooner rather than later though...
My TV from 2019 has FreeSync
 

GustavoLT

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If Insomniac deliver for Miles and Remaster... then I believe it can become a norm for at least PS5 exclusives! Hope they do it with HFW... 4K fidelity 40fps 120hz all max out!
 

Spukc

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It's something DF has been wanting for some time according to this, they're working on a full video to try and explain why 40fps makes such a difference for the people who don't understand.

I'm still holding off buying a full HDMI 2.1 TV but I do hope that this is something that becomes standard where it's achievable.
Why not wait for hdmi 3.0?
i heard that will be a lot better
 
Jun 1, 2021
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Why not wait for hdmi 3.0?
i heard that will be a lot better
The simple reason that I've not decided ona full HDMI 2.1 setup yet is because it's been implemented pretty poorly across the board, there's never ben a new HDMI standard where so many mistakes have been made by so many different companies.
As with anything else, not all HDMI 2.1 hardware will be equal and the limitations on the available hardware at the moment means that I'm more than happy to wait a couple of years or so until the hardware reaches the point that I want it to be at.
 
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Keihart

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Cool i guess? i suppose i'm just blessed since 30fps are already "viable" to me.
 

Bulletbrain

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This seems counterproductive. The people who prefer 30fps modes do so because they feel it allows developers to max out graphical fidelity. Graphics is top priority. They are willing to play at 30fps to get that graphical quality. Raising framerate to 40fps will ofc take some of the rendering budget that could have been used for better fidelity. So, I doubt the "fidelity" people will like this. And ofc people who want 60fps won't settle for 40. So...who exactly is this solution targeting I wonder. Are there a small subset of gamers who think 30fps is too choppy but 60fps is overrated?
 

ZywyPL

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This seems counterproductive. The people who prefer 30fps modes do so because they feel it allows developers to max out graphical fidelity. Graphics is top priority. They are willing to play at 30fps to get that graphical quality. Raising framerate to 40fps will ofc take some of the rendering budget that could have been used for better fidelity. So, I doubt the "fidelity" people will like this. And ofc people who want 60fps won't settle for 40. So...who exactly is this solution targeting I wonder. Are there a small subset of gamers who think 30fps is too choppy but 60fps is overrated?

All those Fildelity modes are locked to 30FPS but there's still a lot of headroom left on the table, GoW running at 40-50FPS in unlocked FPS mode being the best example here, so unlocking that extra headroom doesn't sacrifice the visuals at all. 40FPS is a good compromise/workaround for lack of VRR, it may seem like just 10 extra frames, no biggie, but those 10FPS are in fact 33% more than what you'd get otherwise, and the difference is really quite significant: