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53% of those w/ bachelor degrees age 25-and-under in the US are jobless/underemployed

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XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed:

1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed
By HOPE YEN, Associated Press
Sunday, April 22, 2012

(04-22) 07:02 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.

A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs — waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example — and that's confounding their hopes a degree would pay off despite higher tuition and mounting student loans.

An analysis of government data conducted for The Associated Press lays bare the highly uneven prospects for holders of bachelor's degrees.

Opportunities for college graduates vary widely.

While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder. Median wages for those with bachelor's degrees are down from 2000, hit by technological changes that are eliminating midlevel jobs such as bank tellers. Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides, who can provide personalized attention as the U.S. population ages.

Taking underemployment into consideration, the job prospects for bachelor's degree holders fell last year to the lowest level in more than a decade.


"I don't even know what I'm looking for," says Michael Bledsoe, who described months of fruitless job searches as he served customers at a Seattle coffeehouse. The 23-year-old graduated in 2010 with a creative writing degree.

Initially hopeful that his college education would create opportunities, Bledsoe languished for three months before finally taking a job as a barista, a position he has held for the last two years. In the beginning he sent three or four resumes day. But, Bledsoe said, employers questioned his lack of experience or the practical worth of his major. Now he sends a resume once every two weeks or so.

His situation highlights a widening but little-discussed labor problem. Perhaps more than ever, the choices that young adults make earlier in life — level of schooling, academic field and training, where to attend college, how to pay for it — are having long-lasting financial impact.

"You can make more money on average if you go to college, but it's not true for everybody," says Harvard economist Richard Freeman, noting the growing risk of a debt bubble with total U.S. student loan debt surpassing $1 trillion. "If you're not sure what you're going to be doing, it probably bodes well to take some job, if you can get one, and get a sense first of what you want from college."


Andrew Sum, director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University who analyzed the numbers, said many people with a bachelor's degree face a double whammy of rising tuition and poor job outcomes. "Simply put, we're failing kids coming out of college," he said, emphasizing that when it comes to jobs, a college major can make all the difference. "We're going to need a lot better job growth and connections to the labor market, otherwise college debt will grow."

By region, the Mountain West was most likely to have young college graduates jobless or underemployed — roughly 3 in 5. It was followed by the more rural southeastern U.S., including Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Tennessee. The Pacific region, including Alaska, California, Hawaii, Oregon and Washington, also was high on the list.

On the other end of the scale, the southern U.S., anchored by Texas, was most likely to have young college graduates in higher-skill jobs.


The figures are based on an analysis of 2011 Current Population Survey data by Northeastern University researchers and supplemented with material from Paul Harrington, an economist at Drexel University, and the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank. They rely on Labor Department assessments of the level of education required to do the job in 900-plus U.S. occupations, which were used to calculate the shares of young adults with bachelor's degrees who were "underemployed."

About 1.5 million, or 53.6 percent, of bachelor's degree-holders under the age of 25 last year were jobless or underemployed, the highest share in at least 11 years. In 2000, the share was at a low of 41 percent, before the dot-com bust erased job gains for college graduates in the telecommunications and IT fields.

Out of the 1.5 million who languished in the job market, about half were underemployed, an increase from the previous year.


Broken down by occupation, young college graduates were heavily represented in jobs that require a high school diploma or less.

In the last year, they were more likely to be employed as waiters, waitresses, bartenders and food-service helpers than as engineers, physicists, chemists and mathematicians combined (100,000 versus 90,000). There were more working in office-related jobs such as receptionist or payroll clerk than in all computer professional jobs (163,000 versus 100,000). More also were employed as cashiers, retail clerks and customer representatives than engineers (125,000 versus 80,000).

According to government projections released last month, only three of the 30 occupations with the largest projected number of job openings by 2020 will require a bachelor's degree or higher to fill the position — teachers, college professors and accountants. Most job openings are in professions such as retail sales, fast food and truck driving, jobs which aren't easily replaced by computers.


College graduates who majored in zoology, anthropology, philosophy, art history and humanities were among the least likely to find jobs appropriate to their education level; those with nursing, teaching, accounting or computer science degrees were among the most likely.

Any job gains are going mostly to workers at the top and bottom of the wage scale, at the expense of middle-income jobs commonly held by bachelor's degree holders. By some studies, up to 95 percent of positions lost during the economic recovery occurred in middle-income occupations such as bank tellers, the type of job not expected to return in a more high-tech age.

David Neumark, an economist at the University of California-Irvine, said a bachelor's degree can have benefits that aren't fully reflected in the government's labor data. He said even for lower-skilled jobs such as waitress or cashier, employers tend to value bachelor's degree-holders more highly than high-school graduates, paying them more for the same work and offering promotions.

In addition, U.S. workers increasingly may need to consider their position in a global economy, where they must compete with educated foreign-born residents for jobs. Longer-term government projections also may fail to consider "degree inflation," a growing ubiquity of bachelor's degrees that could make them more commonplace in lower-wage jobs but inadequate for higher-wage ones.


That future may be now for Kelman Edwards Jr., 24, of Murfreesboro, Tenn., who is waiting to see the returns on his college education.

After earning a biology degree last May, the only job he could find was as a construction worker for five months before he quit to focus on finding a job in his academic field. He applied for positions in laboratories but was told they were looking for people with specialized certifications.

"I thought that me having a biology degree was a gold ticket for me getting into places, but every other job wants you to have previous history in the field," he said. Edwards, who has about $5,500 in student debt, recently met with a career counselor at Middle Tennessee State University. The counselor's main advice: Pursue further education.


"Everyone is always telling you, `Go to college,'" Edwards said. "But when you graduate, it's kind of an empty cliff."
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
Scary numbers. As someone who is about to get his AA degree, and having a clue what to do in life, this is very troubling to me.
 

balddemon

Banned
Wow, maybe the guy I thought was a douche for bitching that his time is worth more than he's getting paid is right.

He makes 9/hr (like me, and i have no degree, while he just graduated from college) at Target.

even if he's right, the fact he talks about it all the time is annoying
 

loosus

Banned
Sounds like automation has done us a lot of good, just as GAF told me that it has. Technological progression benefits everyone!

Wow, maybe the guy I thought was a douche for bitching that his time is worth more than he's getting paid is right.

He makes 9/hr
Why exactly would you EVER think that the guy is a douche? Can you live off $9/hr with no help? At that rate, you're making no more than $18,300 a year, and that's if you work 40 hours every single week for 51 weeks a year. You must have extremely low expectations of life.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
Are they all going for their Masters at least?
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
I'm a bit concerned. I'm about to finish up my Bio/Marine Science double major and not sure where I'm going next.

Reports like this don't exactly fill me with confidence. We'll see what happens.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
Sounds like automation has done us a lot of good, just as GAF told me that it has. Technological progression benefits everyone!


Why exactly would you EVER think that the guy is a douche? Can you live off $9/hr with no help? At that rate, you're making no more than $18,300 a year, and that's if you work 40 hours every single week for 51 weeks a year. You must have extremely low expectations of life.

That's what I live on. Haven't had a raise since I started and I'm working in my profession. Bills are paid, food in the refrigerator and I still have money for games, movies, etc.
 

Puddles

Banned
As a society we would be better off with a less efficient private sector. Read: higher payrolls, lower profits, lower returns to investors.

It might be time to consider a Job Guarantee policy in the U.S.
 
"I thought that me having a biology degree was a gold ticket for me getting into places, but every other job wants you to have previous history in the field," he said. Edwards, who has about $5,500 in student debt, recently met with a career counselor at Middle Tennessee State University. The counselor's main advice: Pursue further education.

$5500 isn't that bad. It sucks, but it's not life alteringly high, you know?
Still, I'm in favor of forced student loan forgiveness with special lower tax rates for folks who already paid their debts off within the last 10 years or so.

But really, the trick that worked for me after I graduated was to be willing to work for dirt cheap In that first job. I said I would work for $17,000 back in 2005 and sure enough, I got a job. It was a terrible job bit it's paying off in spades now because I'm doing exceptionally well in my newer, current job.

But yeah... the whole, "employers want people with experience for entry level jobs" thing has been going on for at least 10 years now and has seemingly gotten worse with the economy largely still in the toilet.
 
Wow, maybe the guy I thought was a douche for bitching that his time is worth more than he's getting paid is right.

He makes 9/hr (like me, and i have no degree, while he just graduated from college) at Target.

even if he's right, the fact he talks about it all the time is annoying

I can't tell how serious this post is....
 

loosus

Banned
That's what I live on. Haven't had a raise since I started and I'm working in my profession. Bills are paid, food in the refrigerator and I still have money for games, movies, etc.

Honestly, I don't see how. You HAVE to live in bum-fuck or with your parents. Or collecting some sort of help from someone or some government. If I made what you made, my relatively tiny mortgage would be more than half your pre-tax monthly paycheck right off the bat. Then gas. Utilities. Food. Things that go wrong with the car, the house, etc. Car insurance. Insurance on the house. Property taxes.

As a society we would be better off with a less efficient private sector. Read: higher payrolls, lower profits, lower returns to investors.
The dirty secret is that, for all the shit baby boomers gave their kids about "hard work," they were among the least hard-working. I know so, so, so many people from that generation who did NOTHING at work. Their "job" was to be there and be on-time. Essentially, they were given a living wage by their presence at work. And there were a lot of people like that. That's partially why you hear stuff about how today's society is supposedly fast-moving or whatever...because back then, they didn't really have to keep up with jack shit.

Baby boomers have lied to their children about a lot of things that has really fucked them up long-term. And now, they're still living pretty as they go onto Social Security that, by their own standards, have largely not earned.
 
-The average unemployment rate in Greece in 2010 was 12.5 percent. During 2011, the average unemployment rate was 17.3 percent, and now the unemployment rate in Greece is up to 21.8 percent.

- The youth unemployment rate in Greece is now over 50 percent.

- The unemployment rate in the port town is Perama is about 60 percent.

- The unemployment rate in Spain (NYSEARCA:EWP) is now up to 23.6 percent.

- The youth unemployment rate in Spain is now over 50 percent.

- The unemployment rate in Portugal is up to 15 percent.

- The youth unemployment rate in Portugal is now over 35 percent.

- Youth unemployment in Italy is up to 31.9 percent - the highest level ever.
http://etfdailynews.com/2012/04/12/...s-about-to-burst-vgk-iev-ewg-euo-fxe-ewp-ewi/

And that is not including "underemployment"
 
Welcome to my life, got a degree in mechanical engineering in late 2009, jobless for about 6 months, and now working as an inventory counter. It sucks.
 
That´s a huge number. 1 out of 2 unemployed or underemployed is a catastrophe.

Welcome to my life, got a degree in mechanical engineering in late 2009, jobless for about 6 months, and now working as an inventory counter.
You should try to apply to Boeing and Lokheed Martin. The defense contracts are huge.
 

HiResDes

Member
The problem is as an English graduate that desires to acquire a job writing or editing and not teaching, the positions I'm applying for are quite scarce, so scarce that potential employers can require five to ten years experience for entry-level jobs. I'm competing with highly experienced individuals who are mostly 30 and up vying for the same lowly positions as me!
 
Good thing I'm getting close to the top end of the scale then. I recently got a 30k/year raise which now takes me well over double what beginning salary was close to two years ago (actually closer to 2.75 times my original starting salary). I also have 5 weeks of PTO, but it was mostly because other companies were trying to hire me so my company did it as a means to keep me on.

If anyone has VB6 and .Net experience and lives in the Dallas area, it wouldn't be a bad idea to apply to Sogeti. I was given a job offer but declined.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
Honestly, I don't see how. You HAVE to live in bum-fuck or with your parents. Or collecting some sort of help from someone or some government. If I made what you made, my relatively tiny mortgage would be more than half your pre-tax monthly paycheck right off the bat. Then gas. Utilities. Food. Things that go wrong with the car, the house, etc. Car insurance. Insurance on the house. Property taxes.

I live in Lawton, Okla. Not the greatest town in the world, but nothing in the middle of nowhere. And I live alone. My parents are dead, I don't get any government assistance or anything of the sort. It's all about living within one's means. I know people that are struggling and make $75,000 a year and can barely pay their bills. It's possible and not actually that difficult.
 
The problem is as an English graduate that desires to acquire a job writing or editing and not teaching, the positions I'm applying for are quite scarce, so scarce that potential employers can require five to ten years experience for entry-level jobs. I'm competing with highly experienced individuals who are mostly 30 and up vying for the same lowly positions as me!

Graduates in majors like yours apparently don't get to ride the "pawn train". Entrepreneurship or bust =P.
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
From what i've been told, a biology degree isn't worth much alone. You're supposed to do basic research then go for a masters or down the doctor/PA track.
 

Puddles

Banned
I live in Lawton, Okla. Not the greatest town in the world, but nothing in the middle of nowhere. And I live alone. My parents are dead, I don't get any government assistance or anything of the sort. It's all about living within one's means. I know people that are struggling and make $75,000 a year and can barely pay their bills. It's possible and not actually that difficult.

Regardless, you're probably underpaid.

I make somewhat more than $9/hr, but I'm definitely underpaid. It happens.
 
The problem is as an English graduate that desires to acquire a job writing or editing and not teaching, the positions I'm applying for are quite scarce, so scarce that potential employers can require five to ten years experience for entry-level jobs. I'm competing with highly experienced individuals who are mostly 30 and up vying for the same lowly positions as me!

The only comfort in this is knowing that these organizations that ask for so much experience in an entry level job are going to be fucked in about 10-15 years. Failing to understand what entry level means ensures that there won't be any new mid level people for those "entry level" positions later.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
Regardless, you're probably underpaid.

I make somewhat more than $9/hr, but I'm definitely underpaid. It happens.

Oh you're damn right I'm underpaid. Working at this same income level for four years now. New hires that just come in off the street out of college get the same pay I do. I'd love to have a pay raise. But it's not impossible to live with a smaller budget.
 
Good thing I'm getting close to the top end of the scale then. I recently got a 30k/year raise which now takes me well over double what beginning salary was close to two years ago (actually closer to 2.75 times my original starting salary). I also have 5 weeks of PTO, but it was mostly because other companies were trying to hire me so my company did it as a means to keep me on.

If anyone has VB6 and .Net experience and lives in the Dallas area, it wouldn't be a bad idea to apply to Sogeti. I was given a job offer but declined.

That´s really awesome. Congrats.
 
It's a similar story here in Britain as well but what's particularly interesting is various industry sectors and employers decry the lack of STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) graduates. However, there was a recent BBC report claiming that STEM graduates themselves were struggling to find employment after school
 

Iceman

Member
I can't find these stats on the bureau of labor statistics website. What I can find is that college graduates over 25 have a 4.2 unemployment rate, and that among 16-24 year olds ENROLLED in college, half are looking for work. I can't even find enough data so that someone can make the calculation for college graduates under 25. Or was there another poll consulted for this article?

Edit: got it, northeastern university
analysis.
 
Oh you're damn right I'm underpaid. Working at this same income level for four years now. New hires that just come in off the street out of college get the same pay I do. I'd love to have a pay raise. But it's not impossible to live with a smaller budget.

Please note that it is circumstantial, you can't blanket it.
 
Oh you're damn right I'm underpaid. Working at this same income level for four years now. New hires that just come in off the street out of college get the same pay I do. I'd love to have a pay raise. But it's not impossible to live with a smaller budget.

Why not ask for one then? Especially if the new hires are getting paid the same or more.
Also, you would almost certainly qualify for at least food stamps.
 

alstein

Member
All I can say is when this happened to me, thank god I sucked it up, entered the military, and got into something rare enough that few are qualified (the job will disappear one day though, then I'm screwed)

No point in going for higher education unless you're an elite.

This is the stuff though that a 2nd Communism could easily spawn from.
 

loosus

Banned
Oh you're damn right I'm underpaid. Working at this same income level for four years now. New hires that just come in off the street out of college get the same pay I do. I'd love to have a pay raise. But it's not impossible to live with a smaller budget.

Just what you're calling it (i.e., "a smaller budget") is seriously upsetting to me. It's NOT just a smaller budget. That's a poverty budget, man. I'm not talking down to you, either. But I'm telling you that there is going to come a point in your life very soon where you will be unable to mathematically continue as you are doing. I'm sorry, but $9/hr is what a high-schooler should be making as some pre-college dollars so that he/she doesn't have to take as many loans out, not as a wage to live on.

If you're living on your own, you need to be making closer to $14 or $15 an hour, at minimum, assuming that you're full-time and getting benefits.
 

SeanR1221

Member
Not surprising. Majority of people I knew getting BAs either didn't know what they wanted to do after they graduated or had delusions of what they could do.

My anecdotal evidence...before someone jumps down my throat and yells at me for over-generalizing. :)
 
Oh you're damn right I'm underpaid. Working at this same income level for four years now. New hires that just come in off the street out of college get the same pay I do. I'd love to have a pay raise. But it's not impossible to live with a smaller budget.

So, you're getting completely screwed on wages, haven't had a raise in years, live somewhere where the cost of living is super-low compared to other parts of the country, but everyone else should just suck it up and be able to live on $9 an hour like you? What planet are you from?

$9 an hour is nothing, and you'd never be able to raise children, support a wife, or move ahead in the world on that money. Just because it happens to work in your situation, don't expect it to work in anyone else's.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
Please note that it is circumstantial, you can't blanket it.

Of course it's circumstantial and it all depends on where you live. Oklahoma has a significantly lower cost of living than much of the country. I'm not saying it isn't a problem. There is a very serious problem in this country right now where people are working for whatever they can simply to have something coming in. I just don't see how it's going to change.

Why not ask for one then? Especially if the new hires are getting paid the same or more.
Also, you would almost certainly qualify for at least food stamps.

Was told I'm lucky to have a job, despite being one of the best reporters on staff. Such is life. There's no point in giving someone a pay raise when there are a half dozen graduates that would take the job I do for the same rate, if not cheaper. In this economy, the employers are the ones holding all the bargaining power. And no food stamps, I make too much here. My Dad, when he was alive on social security, couldn't even get them with $1,000 a month because he made too much. The whole system is flawed.


So, you're getting completely screwed on wages, haven't had a raise in years, live somewhere where the cost of living is super-low compared to other parts of the country, but everyone else should just suck it up and be able to live on $9 an hour like you? What planet are you from?

$9 an hour is nothing, and you'd never be able to raise children, support a wife, or move ahead in the world on that money. Just because it happens to work in your situation, don't expect it to work in anyone else's.

Yeah, I really said people should just suck it up. Are you fucking daft? I'm saying that a single person can live on $9 an hour simply as a counter to someone who said it's not possible.
 

TheTowel

Member
The problem is as an English graduate that desires to acquire a job writing or editing and not teaching, the positions I'm applying for are quite scarce, so scarce that potential employers can require five to ten years experience for entry-level jobs. I'm competing with highly experienced individuals who are mostly 30 and up vying for the same lowly positions as me!

I graduated with a degree in English. Was hell for awhile until I realized what I wanted to do with it and how to angle that degree. Worthless degree unless angled properly. Or you go into teaching.
 

balddemon

Banned
Sounds like automation has done us a lot of good, just as GAF told me that it has. Technological progression benefits everyone!


Why exactly would you EVER think that the guy is a douche? Can you live off $9/hr with no help? At that rate, you're making no more than $18,300 a year, and that's if you work 40 hours every single week for 51 weeks a year. You must have extremely low expectations of life.
its the way he says it. comes off as extremely pretentious/arrogant. he's right, but i don't want to hear it 20 times a week. and no i could probably not live of 18.3k/yr, not without making some drastic lifestyle adjustments. luckily, i don't have to, and neither does he.
I can't tell how serious this post is....
everything in it is 95% true

edit: oh and let me clarify something: what he says doesn't annoy me as much as i act like it does. i'm actually kinda envious of him. he's got a degree, his own place, girlfriend making 40k/yr, and a cake job. i want to graduate from college and start doing what i love. but i still have 3 years of college left, after which i'll have accumulated a shit ton more of debt than i already have.

don't be stupid freshmen, kids.
 

-PXG-

Member
It's really a shame that so many people in this country are out of work. Even worse is that people want to work, they want to have a job and doing their best to find one. And yet, nothing, and barely any hope. Shit...

Makes me even more grateful that I have a job. Makes me want to do everything I can to make sure I keep it.

There's a reason I'm still in school.

Yeah, a lot of my friends are pretty much "holding out" in school as long as they can, in hopes that things get better a in a few years. Too bad that isn't necessarily guaranteed. Plus, they're just accumulating more debt :/
 

kunonabi

Member
My degree has been useless in finding work. It did help me get accepted for a teaching in Japan but my inability to find any work in the states made it impossible for me arrange the funds to actually get the job. I got accepted to grad school after a bit of work so I'm not that bad off. Getting financial aid for grad school is whole other can of worms though.
 
Yeah, I really said people should just suck it up. Are you fucking daft? I'm saying that a single person can live on $9 an hour simply as a counter to someone who said it's not possible.

I apologize for reading more into your post than you put, but you seemed to have the flippant attitude that "if you can do it, why can't anyone else?" Sorry for the misunderstanding.

You are getting royally screwed, though. As are the rest of us with bachelor's degrees. Luckily I'm getting a graduate degree that could also prove useless!
 
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