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[E92 M3]

The premise of this thread is very simple: I want to discuss how a small and new formed company like Respawn reacts to the community much better and quicker than Bungie.

I don't hide the fact that I love Destiny and play it A LOT, but with each update Bungie has demonstrated that they do not either understand their community or want to listen - both scenarios are bad when it comes to the life of the game. With the announcement of today's patch, Bungie has yet again made changes that no one wanted or were needed. They chose to ignore commenting on the glitches in the hard raid and fixes for broken weapon perks (Hive Disruptor). Bungie is a massive studio with nearly limitless (used in context of game development) resources. That means they can do whatever is needed to improve the game for everyone - except they haven't. A popular theory circulating around is that most are working on new projects and only a skeleton crew of Bungie employees are supporting Destiny 1. Destiny is a type of game that needs weekly updates with constant community interaction.

As a huge fan of Bungie (played every game since Marathon) and Destiny - it disappoints me greatly about their lack of understanding on how the game should evolve and be updated.

This brings me to Respawn, a newly formed company that released Titanfall last year. Respawn is much smaller than Bungie and with a lot less resources, but boy did they update Titanfall and take community feedback on a ton of things. The game launched with a sparse amount of content, but in between launch and now Respawn added a marketplace for in-game items, new burn cards, Titan voices, Horde mode, challenges, a new ranking system, tons of balance changes and overall improvements to the game. The developers are constantly posting here and taking all sorts of feedback - they even fixed a prestige challenge that was overtly difficult (praise to the original goosers). Respawn did a lot with the limited resources they had and Titanfall is quite the different game from launch.

I wish Bungie had Respawn's fervor to appease the community and listen to feedback. Destiny has so much going for it, but a game that lives of its community cannot survive when the masses are unhappy.

What do you guys think of this?

Also, please do not trash Destiny or Titanfall. This thread is about the respective developer's community engagement.

 

[bluexy]

Community involvement is a two way street. Some companies talk and listen to their communities. Some do neither. Bungie, I think, is a company that loves to talk to its community, but rarely listens.

Check that, I do think they listen, but I think they've become embroiled in a process that either allows no room to react to what they hear or allows no room to care. That's as a business entity, as I'm sure there are individuals within Bungie who very much would like to do better.

 

[BLUElightCory]

I didn't get into Destiny much but I have been really impressed with Respawn's relationship with their community. Bring on Titanfall 2.

 

[Interficium]

Pretty weird how you made a big list for everything Titanfall has added, over a year, and are comparing that list to this week's patch for Destiny as a way of making your argument work, bud.

 

[dugdug]

Its also good to keep in mind that Destiny, and its audience, are way, way bigger than Titanfall. It has to be much harder when you're getting thousands of requests a day to change this here, change that there. Tons of requests to balance literally everything in the game. It can't be as easy as it sounds.

I mean, it's honestly great that Respawn engages the community, but, I can't imagine they get as many people yelling at them as Bungie does. That said, they should be commended for reacting to feedback. (Conversely, Respawn is apparently doing an interview with Crapgamer soon, as well, so, that's kinda gross. Sometimes you don't need to communicate with *everyone* in your community, but, hey.)

 

[antitrop]

I feel like Respawn is a fairly humble developer, mostly because of the Activision lawsuit. I figure they're just happy to exist as a studio, and they want to be proud of something they fought so hard for the right to exist.

 

[E92 M3]

Pretty weird how you made a big list for everything Titanfall has added, over a year, and are comparing that to this week's patch for Destiny as a way of making your argument work, bud.

Okay: Bungie has changed the engram system, exotics rebalanced, pvp balances, and other item distribution changes. Nothing ground breaking and we're sorely lacking in the quality of life updates. Did get the ability to purchase destination material.

Good job on not reading and thinking I am biased though when in fact I play Destiny everyday.

I feel like Respawn is a fairly humble developer, mostly because of the Activision lawsuit. I figure they're just happy to exist as a studio, and they want to be proud of something they fought so hard for the right to exist.

That's true and I love that about them.

Its also good to keep in mind that Destiny, and its audience, are way, way bigger than Titanfall. It has to be much harder when you're getting thousands of requests a day to change this here, change that there. Tons of requests to balance literally everything in the game. It can't be as easy as it sounds.

I mean, it's honestly great that Respawn engages the community, but, I can't imagine they get as many people yelling at them as Bungie does. That said, they should be commended for reacting to feedback. (Conversely, Respawn is apparently doing an interview with Crapgamer soon, as well, so, that's kinda gross. Sometimes you don't need to communicate with *everyone* in your community, but, hey.)

Bungie has Deej - a dedicated community guy. Trust me his getting plenty of information from us, but the problem is that Bungie is ignoring the majority of it. Respawn took a lot of shit from community as well.

 

[Hexa]

Bungie is much bigger so probably run more corporate like, and in a deal with a major publisher that they have to deliver on, not just for one game, but for DLC and sequels. Everything they do is probably planned out and very difficult to change in a manner that would stick with the agreements with Activision.

On the other hand, Respawn is smaller so each individual has more of an impact so they company can react through them. Furthermore, as far as I understand it EA was pretty hands off on the whole thing other than marketing/release agreements and similar issues, and thus Respawn had a lot more control over how to further develop their game. They do after all own the IP IIRC.

Though being bigger also brings benefits, such as Destiny having more content, though there some issues with that, though I won't go into them as you said don't trash Destiny or Titanfall.

Disclaimer: I've barely actually played TitanFall and don't own it so this is based on mostly observation of people talking about it on NeoGAF. xD

 

[BokehKing]

Titanfall shipped barebones with next to no content
A year later it finally has the content it should have shipped with at day 1


You should have more than you have now
People who bought titanfall basically helped finish what should have been final product for a 'multiplayer only game. So of course it looks like respond listens more. But respawn is IW to me and those guys never listened


Where Destiny, though loved to be hated on here gives me a very addicting and satisfying Co - op experience that no other FPS has ever offered.

The scale of what Bungie is trying to do is huge..
It's honestly not even comparable

Plus what people want in Destiny today, probably won't be seen until the next $60 release, the sooner people understand that, the better

 

[Jackbooted]

The thing that tipped me off that Bungie is existing in some sort of echo chamber is their seeming lack of desire to fix raid bugs that cause wipes and wasted time but to quickly change things that they feel the community shouldn't be doing. There are well documented bugs that exist from launch to this day that have yet to be fixed but heaven forbid players shoot in to a hole in the ground for hours on end...

Respawn has done a great job in adding a lot of new features to Titanfall and haven't fallen in to the trap of constantly buffing and nerfing weapons to try and hit some moving goal. TF got a lot of shit at launch but it is such a different game now that a lot of people would change their minds if they played it today due to Respawn's responsiveness.

Bungie has a huge studio so I don't see how they can let bugs slide for this long unless they truly believe that player's complaints don't warrant as much attention when flaws are discovered.

 

[hawk2025]

Regardless of what happened after, in my view Respawn has yet to recover from this sequence of events:

"framerate is king" --> game launches plagued with framerate issues --> promises of fixes are made multiple times, including resolution bumps --> only marginal improvements were made.

My Xbox One experience with titanfall was soured by their handling of the game pre and postlaunch, and the expectations formed by the statements. They didn't deliver, IMO.

 

[dugdug]

Bungie has Deej - a dedicated community guy. Trust me his getting plenty of information from us, but the problem is that Bungie is ignoring the majority of it. Respawn took a lot of shit from community as well.

Sure, but, as you say, Bungie has Deej. A guy.

One guy, dealing with a huge, massive ton of requests on a daily basis. I'm sure they're taking in as much as they can, and passing it to the devs, who, in turn, prioritize what they can. I can't think of any reason they'd actively ignore their user base.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm sure they're taking in as much as they can, and passing it to the devs, who, in turn, prioritize what they can. I can't think of any reason they'd actively ignore their user base.

You'd be surprised

First/Second week people noticed the Heavy Ammo Glitch, nothing was said about for a long while
They said before 1st DLC that yeah there was an issue
Now they have said wait till end of February to fix this problem...

So from September 9th till maybe February 24th the latest
5.5 months to fix a glitch that has hurt the community is the long run for so long
People had to adjust play-styles and grind even more to make up for the glitch

 

[E92 M3]

Titanfall shipped barebones with next to no content
A year later it finally has the content it should have shipped with at day 1


You should have more than you have now
People who bought titanfall basically helped finish what should have been final product for a 'multiplayer only game. So of course it looks like respond listens more. But respawn is IW to me and those guys never listened


Where Destiny, though loved to be hated on here gives me a very addicting and satisfying Co - op experience that no other FPS has ever offered.

The scale of what Bungie is trying to do is huge..
It's honestly not even comparable

Plus what people want in Destiny today, probably won't be seen until the next $60 release, the sooner people understand that, the better

I played Titanfall for many, many hours when it launched - can't complain about that. I understand what Bungie wants to do, but it doesn't give them the excuse to ignore the community. Besides vault size increase, we want small things such as glimmer cap increase, mark cap increase, getting rid of shards from NF loot table, getting rid of shards from legendary engrams, consolidating the various currencies, give shops more spice (change up inventory) and more. All of the previous mentioned can be done without falling back on the excuse of grandiose development strategies.

Sure, but, as you say, Bungie has Deej. A guy.

One guy, dealing with a huge, massive ton of requests on a daily basis. I'm sure they're taking in as much as they can, and passing it to the devs, who, in turn, prioritize what they can. I can't think of any reason they'd actively ignore their user base.

Fans consolidate a lot of the information and post everyday on all of the big forums. Besides Deej, there a good amount of Bungie guys that post on GAF. Fans have been wanting the same thing for a very long time. Bungie knows what we want.

Regardless of what happened after, in my view Respawn has yet to recover from this sequence of events:

"framerate is king" --> game launches plagued with framerate issues --> promises of fixes are made multiple times, including resolution bumps --> only marginal improvements were made.

My Xbox One experience with titanfall was soured by their handling of the game pre and postlaunch, and the expectations formed by the statements. They didn't deliver, IMO.

I disagree, but that's for another thread.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

Respawn has added a tremendous amount to their game, but I'm not sure what they've done in terms of communication. I love their game, and I love the things they've added even me getting it in August, adding titan customization and automatic burn cards. Great things all around in terms of content and quality of life.

Destiny, in the 6 months it's been out still needs a lot of work. We finally got word on the heavy ammo glitch (still not fixed) and it took them forever to upgrade Bad Juju and Thorn. Certain things are still a chore in game, while they have added improvements like the buff and the Engrams fixes. Bungie is quick to patch things that make their content menial, yet they take forever on issues that actually affect the userbase and makes the game frustrating at times.

I wish Titanfall had a bigger population for the amount Respawn put into it, and unfortunately for destiny I'm done with expansions content.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Pretty weird how you made a big list for everything Titanfall has added, over a year, and are comparing that list to this week's patch for Destiny as a way of making your argument work, bud.

Bungie haven't really done much that is positive to list

Respawn has added a tremendous amount to their game, but I'm not sure what they've done in terms of communication. I love their game, and I love the things they've added even me getting it in August, adding titan customization and automatic burn cards. Great things all around in terms of content and quality of life.

Destiny, in the 6 months it's been out still needs a lot of work. We finally got word on the heavy ammo glitch (still not fixed) and it took them forever to upgrade Bad Juju and Thorn. Certain things are still a chore in game, while they have added improvements like the buff and the Engrams fixes. Bungie is quick to patch things that make their content menial, yet they take forever on issues that actually affect the userbase and makes the game frustrating at times.

I wish Titanfall had a bigger population for the amount Respawn put into it, and unfortunately for destiny I'm done with expansions content.

Maybe respawn hasn't "communicated" much but it sure seems like they listen.

The engrams were never fixed. Instead of blues and greens, legendary engrams now give you shards and energies.

 

[E92 M3]

Bungie haven't really done much that is positive to list




Maybe respawn hasn't "communicated" much but it sure seems like they listen.

The engrams were never fixed. Instead of blues and greens, legendary engrams now give you shards and energies.

Respawn definitely listens, and their guys posted a lot in the OT and other threads. I've even had a personal complaint addressed through a PM. Very responsive team. I hope they never change - Bungie used to be like that too.

 

[WGMBY]

This brings me to Respawn, a newly formed company that released Titanfall last year. Respawn is much smaller than Bungie and with a lot less resources, but boy did they update Titanfall and take community feedback on a ton of things. The game launched with a sparse amount of content, but in between launch and now Respawn added a marketplace for in-game items, new burn cards, Titan voices, Horde mode, challenges, a new ranking system, tons of balance changes and overall improvements to the game. The developers are constantly posting here and taking all sorts of feedback - they even fixed a prestige challenge that was overtly difficult (praise to the original goosers). Respawn did a lot with the limited resources they had and Titanfall is quite the different game from launch.

I might have to load up TitanFall again. I haven't touched it since the first few weeks after it released.

 

[Mindwipe]

Honestly, the worst thing that can happen to a developer is having a community manager. They nearly always care about their communications more than the product and acting as a buffer to the developers are insulated from the real feelings of their userbase.

Every product I've ever worked on they made every situation worse. Every product I recall having one would have been better off without them.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Anyone who still thinks Activision isn't pulling the strings with Destiny's continued development at this point is in denial.

Bungie in answering to its publisher. Its publisher wants to release content in small batches to maximize profit. Bungie is at their whim. Consumers can go yell at clouds.

At least EA is giving Respawn a bit of freedom regarding TF.

 

[E92 M3]

I might have to load up TitanFall again. I haven't touched it since the first few weeks after it released.

Do it - it's still great.

Honestly, the worst thing that can happen to a developer is having a community manager. They nearly always care about their communications more than the product and acting as a buffer to the developers are insulated from the real feelings of their userbase.

Every product I've ever worked on they made every situation worse. Every product I recall having one would have been better off without them.

Really? I never thought of it like that. Wasn't Fourzerotwo alright for IW?

Anyone who still thinks Activision isn't pulling the strings with Destiny's continued development at this point is in denial.

Bungie in answering to its publisher. Its publisher wants to release content in small batches to maximize profit. Bungie is at their whim. Consumers can go yell at clouds.

At least EA is giving Respawn a bit of freedom regarding TF.

Honestly, I don't think Activision is doing much - they gave a ton of autonomy to Bungie - a studio that fought for its freedom. Bungie is simply having communication problems or not caring about what their players want. They have a vision and they're sticking to it. That's what it seems like.

Really don't think Activision is doing much besides telling them they need to make money and how they go about it is up to them.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Respawn is a fantastic company, but I think Bungie has accomplished a respectable amount of "community engagement" in the 5 months since Destiny's compared to what Respawn has done in the 11 months since Titanfall's. It's not a fair comparison anyways, considering the differences in audience, timeline, and the resources involved.

It's okay that your opinion differs.

That said, I strongly disagree with one point:

Bungie is a massive studio with nearly limitless (used in context of game development) resources. That means they can do whatever is needed to improve the game for everyone - except they haven't.

In the context of game development, I think even Respawn devs would laugh at such a hyperbolic statement.

 

[E92 M3]

Respawn is a fantastic company, but I think Bungie has accomplished a respectable amount of "community engagement" in the 5 months since Destiny's compared to what Respawn has done in the 11 months since Titanfall's. It's not a fair comparison anyways, considering the differences in audience, timeline, and the resources involved.

It's okay that your opinion differs.

That said, I strongly disagree with one point:



In the context of game development, I think even Respawn devs would laugh at such a hyperbolic statement.

Like I said, Destiny is played every single day and Bungie's community engagement is very poor and minimal compared to where it should be for a game like Destiny.

In terms of that statement: They certainly have enough resources to give us the small changes we've been asking. That's a minimum.The problem is that Bungie is using the resources for other projects and not upkeep of Destiny. They do not understand their community - it's as simple as that.

 

[hydruxo]

I've been playing Destiny since it launched but Bungie clearly has it stuck in their minds that they want to have the game played the way they want it to be played. They don't care about making changes that piss people off, and each update / patch they put out is full of baffling design decisions. I really do like Destiny and try to stand up for it because I've always felt that it has great potential, but Bungie makes it hard to do that when they disrespect the time invested into the game with exotic upgrades, vendor gear, not fixing raid glitches, etc.

 

[hawk2025]

I disagree, but that's for another thread.

How so?

It's central to your statements in this thread.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Like I said, Destiny is played every single day and Bungie's community engagement is very poor and minimal compared to where it should be for a game like Destiny.

I agree that there is always room for improvement, a shift in tone perhaps, but I struggle to see how you can look at Bungie.net or the Bungie twitter account and say that the engagement is "very poor and minimal". Another difference in opinion, I guess. Okay.

In terms of that statement: They certainly have enough resources to give us the small changes we've been asking. That's a minimum.The problem is that Bungie is using the resources for other projects and not upkeep of Destiny. They do not understand their community - it's as simple as that.

It seems that we have very different views on how AAA game development works in real life. I'll see myself out.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Does Bungie have like a community executive or something like that? I always loved how Capcom had Seth walking around, and that was from a prominently Japanese company too so it always sorta made sense when changes weren't always incorporated.

I feel like being able to talk directly to your community and get feedback from them is too good of an opportunity to pass up, unless like you said they're already looking to the future instead.

 

[FyreWulff]

Respawn is a pretty cool company.


But, Bungie, not being engaged to their community? They're practically the only developer that I saw (on console) let community members come in and contribute content directly to matchmaking updates with their Forge and Community Cartographer programs. They also had the Bungie Favorites that were hardly ever actually Bungie employee favorites but rather a selection of content curated by a different community group every one to two weeks.

This is also a new engine, and a game on four different platforms. They can't address every single issue in the "next patch" because Bungie is so big now and the weapons team isn't working on Raid fixes and content, etc. If a team's update is ready to go in an update, it goes.. if it doesn't, I'm assuming sanity prevails and it has to wait for the next client-side patch. They can't be rushing into a series of hotfixes that could backfire on them since they have to deploy simultaneously on all 4 platforms.

Multiple Bungie employees have said they do listen, are listening, and we've seen people like Luke Smith say they're not repeating what they felt were mistakes of the Dark Below expansion's update. However, no developer is going to follow community suggestions or feedback 1:1, because then you're no longer a developer. There's always a compromise between vision and community feedback, for any developer.

 

[Nabbis]

It should be fairly obvious to anyone who has been following Destiny that the way they handle the community is a textbook example of pr lip service. Aside from changes in drops and crypto their development process is fully disengaged from the wants of the community. I don't know about Respawn since i have not played Titanfall.

 

[E92 M3]

How so?

It's central to your statements in this thread.

Because we are not talking about broken promises and expectations.

I agree that there is always room for improvement, a shift in tone perhaps, but I struggle to see how you can look at Bungie.net or the Bungie twitter account and say that the engagement is "very poor and minimal". Another difference in opinion, I guess. Okay.



It seems that we have very different views on how AAA game development works in real life. I'll see myself out.

I'm not claiming to know everything about development, but in my opinion Deej says a whole lot of nothing and puts up useless features (articles) on B.net.

Respawn is a pretty cool company.


But, Bungie, not being engaged to their community? They're practically the only developer that I saw (on console) let community members come in and contribute content directly to matchmaking updates with their Forge and Community Cartographer programs. They also had the Bungie Favorites that were hardly ever actually Bungie employee favorites but rather a selection of content curated by a different community group every one to two weeks.

This is also a new engine, and a game on four different platforms. They can't address every single issue in the "next patch" because Bungie is so big now and the weapons team isn't working on Raid fixes and content, etc. If a team's update is ready to go in an update, it goes.. if it doesn't, I'm assuming sanity prevails and it has to wait for the next client-side patch. They can't be rushing into a series of hotfixes that could backfire on them since they have to deploy simultaneously on all 4 platforms.

Multiple Bungie employees have said they do listen, are listening, and we've seen people like Luke Smith say they're not repeating what they felt were mistakes of the Dark Below expansion's update. However, no developer is going to follow community suggestions or feedback 1:1, because then you're no longer a developer. There's always a compromise between vision and community feedback, for any developer.

Yes, Bungie used to be amazing back in the Halo days - I never denied that. And I know multiple employees want to see changes and appease the community. The overall changes are not reflective of that, though. My theory was that they are simply too big and the various departments don't communicate with each other fully.

 

[hydruxo]

Respawn is a pretty cool company.


But, Bungie, not being engaged to their community? They're practically the only developer that I saw (on console) let community members come in and contribute content directly to matchmaking updates with their Forge and Community Cartographer programs. They also had the Bungie Favorites that were hardly ever actually Bungie employee favorites but rather a selection of content curated by a different community group every one to two weeks.

We're not talking about the Halo days. We're talking about right now, the last 6 months.

This is also a new engine, and a game on four different platforms. They can't address every single issue in the "next patch" because Bungie is so big now and the weapons team isn't working on Raid fixes and content, etc. If a team's update is ready to go in an update, it goes.. if it doesn't, I'm assuming sanity prevails and it has to wait for the next client-side patch. They can't be rushing into a series of hotfixes that could backfire on them since they have to deploy simultaneously on all 4 platforms.

You're making alot of assumptions here, and Bungie being "too big" isn't an excuse for not fixing raid bugs and content. In fact, that means they should be working on them. Vault of Glass has still has game breaking glitches in it that have been there since it launched in September.

Multiple Bungie employees have said they do listen, are listening, and we've seen people like Luke Smith say they're not repeating what they felt were mistakes of the Dark Below expansion's update. However, no developer is going to follow community suggestions or feedback 1:1, because then you're no longer a developer. There's always a compromise between vision and community feedback, for any developer.

And I appreciate Luke Smith's honesty, but it's just not enough. It's one thing to say that you're listening, but it's another to actually do something about it. I've been playing Destiny since September and there have been more bad updates than there have good ones, and I think that people in the Destiny OT would agree with me. There's a compromise between vision and community feedback, sure, but Bungie doesn't do it properly. They're too concerned with their own vision.

 

[FyreWulff]

You're making alot of assumptions here

nope

 

[vesvci]

This brings me to Respawn, a newly formed company that released Titanfall last year. Respawn is much smaller than Bungie and with a lot less resources, but boy did they update Titanfall and take community feedback on a ton of things.

What do you guys think of this?

Also, please do not trash Destiny or Titanfall. This thread is about the respective developer's community engagement.

I think the key is that Respawn is a smaller company, and they way to the top (or growth) is directly linked to listening to the feedback of the community.

Let's now forget that after the whole Activision debacle, Respawn is on a mission. Motivation is key in performance success.

That being said, I've found Destiny much more fun than Titanfall. I think Bungie did it right by implementing MMO traits into the game. It really appeals to me, since I'm suffering from that CoD fatigue.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

I remember whend bungie was so great with the community

 

[Victrix]

Respawn did an ace job supporting Titanfall, and did more with it than I expected.

Bungie, so far, has driven me nuts with their support of Destiny.

 

[Hoodbury]

I'm never a fan of when we players complain that a company isn't listening to what we say they should do. If a company the size of Bungie listened to the playerbase the size of Destiny. Our beloved game would turn out to be this:

 

[E92 M3]

Respawn did an ace job supporting Titanfall, and did more with it than I expected.

Bungie, so far, has driven me nuts with their support of Destiny.

They did a ton more than I expected. I also loved how they were regulars in the OT.

I'm never a fan of when we players complain that a company isn't listening to what we say they should do. If a company the size of Bungie listened to the playerbase the size of Destiny. Our beloved game would turn out to be this:

We just want quality of life changes: Glimmer cap, mark cap, vault cap increase, fresh inventory, item exchange - nothing that will break the game. It will only improve the end-user experience.

 

[sploatee]

Just to add - the Titanfall twitter account is also exemplary. Incredibly responsive and helpful.

Bungie's outreach for Destiny always felt a bit insincere to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it feels very self-satisfied. It's more a feeling than anything concrete, though.

 

[MikeyB]

Guerrilla games was releasing free new maps for Shadowfall more than a year after release.

Over a year after release, they introduced a currency system that can be spent to buy boosts for a match or the DLC.

They have been running weekly competitions throughout the New Year.

If only they cross-linked the Valor system to Intercept.

 

[Victrix]

Just to add - the Titanfall twitter account is also exemplary. Incredibly responsive and helpful.

Bungie's outreach for Destiny always felt a bit insincere to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it feels very self-satisfied. It's more a feeling than anything concrete, though.

They've always been that way though. It was ok in Halo I guess, but it doesn't work quite as well in a game like Destiny.

It's bizarre too, Bungie clearly loves their fans, they just... don't communicate well.

 

[Dazzler]

Bungie's latest weapons balance patch was basically:

"We noticed nobody really uses Pulse Rifles, so we've nerfed all your favourite other weapon classes to try and force you to use them"

 

[Marcel]

Bungie's latest weapons balance patch was basically:

"We noticed nobody really uses Pulse Rifles, so we've nerfed all your favourite other weapon classes to try and force you to use them"

Gross. So glad I sold the game before the secondhand-market price drop that it will inevitably happen after the House of Wolves release. Bungie's community response was merely the sprinkles on a shit sundae.

 

[Big_Al]

It's funny reading about how good Respawn is with their community management when I remember the old Infinity Ward being pretty non responsive or at least seemingly non responsive during the COD days. It was always Treyarch back then who seemed to care more about their audience than Infinity Ward ever did. Glad to see things have changed though

 

[Victrix]

Bungie's latest weapons balance patch was basically:

"We noticed nobody really uses Pulse Rifles, so we've nerfed all your favourite other weapon classes to try and force you to use them"

That's not even remotely what they did, but nice kotaku style headline summary

 

[Avari]

It's bizarre too, Bungie clearly loves their fans, they just... don't communicate well.

I'd really like to believe that, but I just don't feel it. Overall I've really enjoyed the game (needed a break for a while after really getting crapped on by RNG). However it seems Bungie is very quick at fixes for issues that might impact sales/player count (exploits/places which allow players to complete raids quickly or gather resources quickly) but very slow (if at all) when it comes to glitches that impact players themselves.

 

[Jest Chillin]

The premise of this thread is very simple: I want to discuss how a small and new formed company like Respawn reacts to the community much better and quicker than Bungie.

I don't hide the fact that I love Destiny and play it A LOT, but with each update Bungie has demonstrated that they do not either understand their community or want to listen - both scenarios are bad when it comes to the life of the game. With the announcement of today's patch, Bungie has yet again made changes that no one wanted or were needed. They chose to ignore commenting on the glitches in the hard raid and fixes for broken weapon perks (Hive Disruptor). Bungie is a massive studio with nearly limitless (used in context of game development) resources. That means they can do whatever is needed to improve the game for everyone - except they haven't. A popular theory circulating around is that most are working on new projects and only a skeleton crew of Bungie employees are supporting Destiny 1. Destiny is a type of game that needs weekly updates with constant community interaction.

As a huge fan of Bungie (played every game since Marathon) and Destiny - it disappoints me greatly about their lack of understanding on how the game should evolve and be updated.

Uhh what? Bungie specifically waited on implementing HM Crota to fix the bugs and exploits in that Raid as it's current. VoG has had a bunch of newer bugs crop up but since it's not the premier Raid content and can easily be skipped for progression, it's going to fall second in priority to Crota's End. They also commented on the Hive Disruptor bug awhile ago and specifically stated that it's a difficult bug to fix so they did what they could in disabling it until they can isolate and fix the problem without breaking something else. They had a similar complex problem with the Gear that boosted Ammo causing players to lose Ammo upon Spawning/Respawning and had an indepth article expressing exactly how complex an issue that was to fix.

It's also presumptious to talk about "fixes that nobody wanted" when the nerfs to AR's, Shotguns', and Fusion Rifles were absolutely necessary and were definitely requested in the case of Shotguns and FR's.

Bungie's latest weapons balance patch was basically:

"We noticed nobody really uses Pulse Rifles, so we've nerfed all your favourite other weapon classes to try and force you to use them"

Pulse Rifles absolutely needed to be buffed and nerfing the other weapons is also necessary in order to keep TTK reasonable. They're absolutely correct in that constantly buffing everything to keep it even will just lead to ridiculously short TTK which would trivialize PvE and make PvP beyond frustrating.

 

[Jinaar]

My opinion why Respawn listens/implements more then Bungie at the moment is:

Destiny Player Base = Large
Titanfall Player Base = Small

If you're McDonalds and people are gorging on your unhealthy fatty burgers at an alarmingly profitable rate, you're not going to listen to a few people on the fringes asking you to make your menu more healthy.

But if people start eating elsewhere then McDonalds, where the food is healthier, then McDonalds will start to listen and make change.


What I am saying is: You and everyone else that sticks with Destiny is the problem.

I quit Destiny after a month and then purchased my 2nd copy of TitanFall on the XBONE after many months on PC. I enjoy it immensely more.

EDIT:
Also I should comment that it may also seem that RESPAWN is building TitanFall 2 while making TitanFall 1 better. You can see in real time how the community takes to the changes before you implement it in a brand new sequel. TF2 will have a wealth of content due to how they have been working still on TF1.

 

[hawk2025]

Because we are not talking about broken promises and expectations.

Now I really, really don't understand how your topic concerning community engagement is not directly related to broken promises and expectations.

I would say it's the most important part of community engagement.
You don't want to address it, though, so I'll leave well enough alone. But I can't help but get the feeling that you are focusing on the small stuff while brushing aside the elephant in the room.

 

[Derpyduck]

Neither game really delivered. But Bungie comes across as arrogant a-holes. Respawn doesn't. Makes me want to support Respawn more than Bungie. Hopefully Titanfall 2 on PS4 will address many of the content and performance issues that still plague the Xbox One game.

 

[neogaffer1]

Titanfall shipped barebones with next to no content
A year later it finally has the content it should have shipped with at day 1


You should have more than you have now
People who bought titanfall basically helped finish what should have been final product for a 'multiplayer only game. So of course it looks like respond listens more. But respawn is IW to me and those guys never listened


Where Destiny, though loved to be hated on here gives me a very addicting and satisfying Co - op experience that no other FPS has ever offered.

The scale of what Bungie is trying to do is huge..
It's honestly not even comparable

Plus what people want in Destiny today, probably won't be seen until the next $60 release, the sooner people understand that, the better

I have to disagree with this. Just because it's satisfying doesn't mean it has a lot of content. Everything I've seen of Destiny is that the single player is just a bunch of the same cookie cutter missions over and over, and the other stuff relies on you having a group of friends you can play with.

Expecting a game that promised a great single player journey to have even an average single player campaign shouldn't require you to pay $60 more.