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[ThatsMytrunks]

Considering I saw deals as low as $125-$150 for the XBO and $199 for the XBO S, I'm not surprised. It's a great, and apparently very affordable system.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

meanwhile sony increasing dat sales gap here in us and around the world

it just prints money gif

 

[Hugh Swank]

What turn around?

The 360 turn around where it's facing the same way again.

meanwhile sony increasing dat sales gap here in us and around the world

it just prints money gif

I think when someone congratulates Xbox on a "turnaround", they're referring to where they've come from since 2013, and more likely referring to the success of the XB1S. Certainly they're not trying to say Xbox is winning the war overall. Xbox has done a lot of good things over the past 2 years, and it's okay to congratulate them for it.

 

[Elios83]

Apologies if posted already. Updated results with Cyber Monday included. Much more revenue than anticipated. PS4 joins the Top 5 along with Xbox One.


http://wccftech.com/ps4-takes-crown-season/

Yes it was discussed in this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1320542&highlight=


Btw let's wait for official numbers or PR announcements.

 

[Stormforger]

I got the PS4 Slim with Fallout 4 and Skyrim for $250 on Amazon. (Already sold both Fallout and Skyrim for $60 on Amazon. So the Slim was $190). I also picked up all the good Sony exclusives for $10 to $15 each.

My main system will be the Xbox One... But, waiting a year or two for Sony exclusives to drop to $10 or $15 seems like the way to go for me...

 

[onQ123]

Hm, I'm inclined to disagree here.

Sony would have been able to double dip with the PS4 Pro. As a gamer who has primarily purchased Sony systems in the past, the expectation that the Playstation brand has been a true, "It Only Does Everything", as the PS2 = Many of our first DVD Player, PS3 = Many of our first Blu Ray Player. With such a rich history, the expectation has been that the PS system has always been a one stop shop for high end media.

The past doesn't necessarily dictate the future, but the brand has established a rich history of providing an all in one solution. Whether this will continue or not remains to be seen. PS will always be my primary system as the 1st party/ 3rd party support is unparalleled imo. Again, the PS4 Pro purchase is a forgone conclusion. However, it's a new day when a PS system isn't my first choice.

Not having a UHD Blu-ray drive does not stop PS4 Pro from being a one stop high end media box. If Blu-ray didn't make that big of a difference for PS3 vs Xbox 360 when Blu-ray gave the PS3 an advantage in media & in gaming when streaming wasn't as big as it is now why would UHD Blu-ray make such a big difference when it's not making a difference in gaming & streaming is common?

I think when someone congratulates Xbox on a "turnaround", they're referring to where they've come from since 2013, and more likely referring to the success of the XB1S. Certainly they're not trying to say Xbox is winning the war overall. Xbox has done a lot of good things over the past 2 years, and it's okay to congratulate them for it.

I'm asking what turn around because Xbox One did good last November/Black Friday & the year before that & at launch so I'm not sure what he meant by a turn around,

 

[Elbereth]

Not having a UHD Blu-ray drive does not stop PS4 Pro from being a one stop high end media box. If Blu-ray didn't make that big of a difference for PS3 vs Xbox 360 when Blu-ray gave the PS3 an advantage in media & in gaming when streaming wasn't as big as it is now why would UHD Blu-ray make such a big difference when it's not making a difference in gaming & streaming is common?

It doesn't stop it from being a high end media box, it stops it from becoming a better one than it is, and probably could have been.

Elaborate here... "Blu Ray didn't make much of a difference between the 360 and PS3"
I believe it absolutely did, especially in terms of games.

I believe that it does make a difference in the quality of 4K HDR vs a streaming option. It makes a difference that the closest competitor is offering both, when the PS4 Pro is not.

 

[Elandyll]

It doesn't stop it from being a high end media box, it stops it from becoming a better one than it is, and probably could have been.

Elaborate here... "Blu Ray didn't make much of a difference between the 360 and PS3"
I believe it absolutely did, especially in terms of games.

I believe that it does make a difference in the quality of 4K HDR vs a streaming option. It makes a difference that the closest competitor is offering both, when the PS4 Pro is not.

I agree with the bolded, but that won't be the case for the XB1S.

Games will not take advantage of the increased capacity of the support, for the simple reason that it would split the user base.

As to see if the 4K BR drive will make a significant difference in perception (for the masses), it remains to be seen. It doesn't look like it did past the initial launch in the UK... (down yoy).

Now would I have preferred it if the Pro was offering a 4K drive? Of course.

Is 4K BR as a format really taking off though? It's still up in the air imo in spite of the graphs released last summer by the BDA (which conveniently were omitting HDDVD as a factor). The offering in movies is still shockingly poor imo.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Come back of what exactly? Sales were always good in November/December with all these heavy discounts. Come back while being still behind the PS4 in November? Nice comeback

No matter how sales go they've done a great job turning things around. I think it's fair to call it a "comeback"

I think when someone congratulates Xbox on a "turnaround", they're referring to where they've come from since 2013, and more likely referring to the success of the XB1S. Certainly they're not trying to say Xbox is winning the war overall. Xbox has done a lot of good things over the past 2 years, and it's okay to congratulate them for it.

.

 

[onQ123]

It doesn't stop it from being a high end media box, it stops it from becoming a better one than it is, and probably could have been.

Elaborate here... "Blu Ray didn't make much of a difference between the 360 and PS3"
I believe it absolutely did, especially in terms of games.

I believe that it does make a difference in the quality of 4K HDR vs a streaming option. It makes a difference that the closest competitor is offering both, when the PS4 Pro is not.

It didn't make a difference in sells (this is a thread about sells) if someone want a PS4 Pro they will buy if they don't they won't the UHD Blu-ray drive is not going to change the tide. People couldn't even play a DVD on the Wii but it was the biggest selling console of the generation while PS3 had Blu-ray playback. All I can say is that some people are trying to make UHD Blu-ray playback a bigger deal than it actually is it's just a tweaked Blu-ray drive & most people who buy the Xbox One S will probably never use it to watch a UHD Blu-ray. Xbox One S is more important to UHD Blu-ray than UHD Blu-ray is to Xbox One S & the same would have been the case with PS4 Pro.

 

[Elbereth]

I agree with the bolded, but that won't be the case for the XB1S.

Games will not take advantage of the increased capacity of the support, for the simple reason that it would split the user base.

As to see if the 4K BR drive will make a significant difference in perception (for the masses), it remains to be seen. It doesn't look like it did past the initial launch in the UK... (down yoy).

Now would I have preferred it if the Pro was offering a 4K drive? Of course.

Is 4K BR as a format really taking off though? It's still up in the air imo in spite of the graphs released last summer by the BDA (which conveniently were omitting HDDVD as a factor). The offering in movies is still shockingly poor imo.

I think that there is misunderstanding here.

This generation, the actual disc space isn't prevalent like it was last gen. However, "4K" is becoming more and more prevalent. The Playstation console isn't synonymous with "4K" this gen. Beyond the technical nomenclature that we understand, Sony can't, won't use this label to sale systems (not that they have to).

Microsoft, (as misleading as it is) can market their machine as "4K". I saw a recent commercial stating that it was the only 4K system. Of course, the games will not be running in 4K, but the media that it plays will. Again, GAF will know the difference, but the average consumer might not. But Microsoft is correct that it is the only "4K" system. Capable of playing native 4K media. If anyone has shelled out money for a new 4K TV and want to play pristine 4K media, the Xbox1 satisfies that. And, it's a video game system.

I simply believe that more Xboxes sold well because of this fact. Of course, the sales gap wasn't wide between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox during the Black Friday rush, but I believe the sales for the PS4Pro would have been much greater if it could market itself as a 4K console games or otherwise.

 

[onQ123]

I think that there is misunderstanding here.

This generation, the actual disc space isn't prevalent like it was last gen. However, "4K" is becoming more and more prevalent. The Playstation console isn't synonymous with "4K" this gen. Beyond the technical nomenclature that we understand, Sony can't, won't use this label to sale systems (not that they have to).

Microsoft, (as misleading as it is) can market their machine as "4K". I saw a recent commercial stating that it was the only 4K system. Of course, the games will not be running in 4K, but the media that it plays will. Again, GAF will know the difference, but the average consumer might not. But Microsoft is correct that it is the only "4K" system. Capable of playing native 4K media. If anyone has shelled out money for a new 4K TV and want to play pristine 4K media, the Xbox1 satisfies that. And, it's a video game system.

I simply believe that more Xboxes sold well because of this fact. Of course, the sales gap wasn't wide between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox during the Black Friday rush, but I believe the sales for the PS4Pro would have been much greater if it could market itself as a 4K console games or otherwise.

PS4 Pro has 4K games & 4K movie streaming so how is it that you think that Sony can't market PS4 Pro as a 4K system but think that Microsoft can market Xbox One S as a 4K system?

 

[Elbereth]

It didn't make a difference in sells (this is a thread about sells) if someone want a PS4 Pro they will buy if they don't they won't the UHD Blu-ray drive is not going to change the tide. People couldn't even play a DVD on the Wii but it was the biggest selling console of the generation while PS3 had Blu-ray playback. All I can say is that some people are trying to make UHD Blu-ray playback a bigger deal than it actually is it's just a tweaked Blu-ray drive & most people who buy the Xbox One S will probably never use it to watch a UHD Blu-ray. Xbox One S is more important to UHD Blu-ray than UHD Blu-ray is to Xbox One S & the same would have been the case with PS4 Pro.

I believe that it did make a difference. I think that you are responding to the individuals marking this a turnaround for the XBox. I haven't given that argument much thought as of yet.

Both have aggressive marketing, and doing very well. I think the gap would have been in PS4 PRO's favor by a large margin now, and before scorpio if it would have had a 4K UHD player. Anecdotal, but I'm certain to not be alone when purchasing a new 4K UHD TV and wanted player to go with it.

As a gamer, it only makes since for to be the XBOX1S. It would have been a PS4Pro first if it would have had that functionality. Again, the fact the Sony decided not to have it is an odd decision, as gamers/consumers like myself would have had their cake and to eat it too. At least, that's what I've come to expect owning all past Sony gaming hardware.

 

[onQ123]

I believe that it did make a difference. I think that you are responding to the individuals marking this a turnaround for the XBox. I haven't given that argument much thought as of yet.

Both have aggressive marketing, and doing very well. I think the gap would have been in PS4 PRO's favor by a large margin now, and before scorpio if it would have had a 4K UHD player. Anecdotal, but I'm certain to not be alone when purchasing a new 4K UHD TV and wanted player to go with it.

As a gamer, it only makes since for to be the XBOX1S. It would have been a PS4Pro first if it would have had that functionality. Again, the fact the Sony decided not to have it is an odd decision, as gamers/consumers like myself would have had their cake and to eat it too. At least, that's what I've come to expect owning all past Sony gaming hardware.

As a gamer you would settle for lots of games under 1080P vs a console that can do native 4K & checkerboard 4K just to have a UHD Blu-ray player even though PS4 Pro also has Blu-ray playback & you can get 4K media without a UHD Blu-ray drive?

So as a gamer you are welling to sacrifice the image quality & performance of your games but you're not able to deal with 1080P Blu-ray & 4K media from streaming services?

Think about that: you said as a gamer it only make sense for the Xbox One S but that mean that you don't care that you will be playing some games at 900P while PS4 Pro will have these games at over 2X the resolution but some how 4K streaming media & 1080P Blu-rays don't make sense to you?

 

[Unknown?]

As a gamer you would settle for lots of games under 1080P vs a console that can do native 4K & checkerboard 4K just to have a UHD Blu-ray player even though PS4 Pro also has Blu-ray playback & you can get 4K media without a UHD Blu-ray drive?

So as a gamer you are welling to sacrifice the image quality & performance of your games but you're not able to deal with 1080P Blu-ray & 4K media from streaming services?

Think about that: you said as a gamer it only make sense for the Xbox One S but that mean that you don't care that you will be playing some games at 900P while PS4 Pro will have these games at over 2X the resolution but some how 4K streaming media & 1080P Blu-rays don't make sense to you?

Lol what some people will argue. I'll take higher quality games over movies. Would it have been better for Sony to include it? Sure. Does it hurt them? Absolutely not, most casuals don't know the difference between Netflix and Blu Ray in the first place.

 

[_woLf]

It helps that stores were practically giving them away at the prices they were going for.

 

[Elbereth]

As a gamer you would settle for lots of games under 1080P vs a console that can do native 4K & checkerboard 4K just to have a UHD Blu-ray player even though PS4 Pro also has Blu-ray playback & you can get 4K media without a UHD Blu-ray drive?

That would assume that the games that I want to play are doing "native" 4K. Are there any AAA games that are running native 4K? Hard pressed to get that on a console or PC without sacrificing frames, not to mention if you are with an ISP who has implemented data caps, but I'll stay on topic.

Checkerboard is great, and the benefits are astounding. I will have a PS4Pro soon,just not used to having a Sony box without physical media. Streaming 4K media vs Native 4K is not a very good comparison if you value the quality that native 4K brings

So as a gamer you are welling to sacrifice the image quality & performance of your games but you're not able to deal with 1080P Blu-ray & 4K media from streaming services?

As a gamer, a father, not necessarily a movie buff, but I like good movies... Yes. I used to be able to get all of this in one box without compromise (consoles of course), on a Sony machine. That has changed it seemed.

Think about that: you said as a gamer it only make sense for the Xbox One S but that mean that you don't care that you will be playing some games at 900P while PS4 Pro will have these games at over 2X the resolution but some how 4K streaming media & 1080P Blu-rays don't make sense to you?

You assume that I would be playing the vast majority of my games on the Xbox. I won't. Will the new XBox S allow me to play Xbox exclusives that I missed, absolutely. Will I play some at 900P? Sure. There are some exclusives that I've always wanted to play, and now MS has given me a reason to. I would have gotten the future Xbox titles that interested me on PC as they will definitely run better. I will also be able to watch 4K HDR movies on the box as well. That is the key. I'm not sacrificing anything by my choice. The PS4Pro just wasn't the first choice because it lacked a key component in enjoying my nice new 4K TV, watching pristine 4K content. Once again, I'll have the PS4 Pro very soon so my experience with all the magic that the pro will bring is exciting to me.

 

[onQ123]

That would assume that the games that I want to play are doing "native" 4K. Are there any AAA games that are running native 4K? Hard pressed to get that on a console or PC without sacrificing frames, not to mention if you are with an ISP who has implemented data caps, but I'll stay on topic.

Checkerboard is great, and the benefits are astounding. I will have a PS4Pro soon,just not used to having a Sony box without physical media. Streaming 4K media vs Native 4K is not a very good comparison if you value the quality that native 4K brings



As a gamer, a father, not necessarily a movie buff, but I like good movies... Yes. I used to be able to get all of this in one box without compromise (consoles of course), on a Sony machine. That has changed it seemed.



You assume that I would be playing the vast majority of my games on the Xbox. I won't. Will the new XBox S allow me to play Xbox exclusives that I missed, absolutely. Will I play some at 900P? Sure. There are some exclusives that I've always wanted to play, and now MS has given me a reason to. I would have gotten the future Xbox titles that interested me on PC as they will definitely run better. I will also be able to watch 4K HDR movies on the box as well. That is the key. I'm not sacrificing anything by my choice. The PS4Pro just wasn't the first choice because it lacked a key component in enjoying my nice new 4K TV, watching pristine 4K content. Once again, I'll have the PS4 Pro very soon so my experience with all the magic that the pro will bring is exciting to me.

Why do you talk as if PS4 Pro don't play Blu-ray or 4K media at all? In you post you said as a gamer only Xbox One S make sense but it's the opposite because the same reason that you said that you didn't get a PS4 Pro to go with your 4K TV applies to the Xbox One S but on the gaming side instead of the media side but on PS4 Pro you can still get 4K media but so far you can not get any 4K gaming on Xbox One S.

 

[Elbereth]

Why do you talk as if PS4 Pro don't play Blu-ray or 4K media at all?

In fact I went into detail about the distinction in 4K media. Native vs Streaming, and what I prefer.

Streaming 4K media vs Native 4K is not a very good comparison if you value the quality that native 4K brings

Also

not to mention if you are with an ISP who has implemented data caps

So, if I'm a gamer that has a newly purchased 4K HDR television and I want to watch movies with an added bonus of playing games that I haven't had an opportunity to play... I'm not certain why I should choose otherwise.

From a purely sales perspective, I believe that the PS4Pro would have sold even better than the competition. From someone who's had ALL previous playstation systems, I'm not certain that it was the right decision. Having a PS4Pro is a forgone conclusion for me, as again, I prefer the Playstation exclusives. But its a second choice at the moment. It would have been the first and only choice if it had a native 4K media player, for native 4K cinema experience.

Once more, the thread is regarding sales, and again, I believe the PS4Pro would have truly demolished the competition if the Pro supported a native 4K BR player. I don't believe that I can start a thread as of yet, but I'm curious about how many have purchased an XBox 1S over the PS4Pro for this reason.

 

[Liabe Brave]

That would assume that the games that I want to play are doing "native" 4K. Are there any AAA games that are running native 4K? Hard pressed to get that on a console or PC without sacrificing frames....

Yes, there are multiple AAA games running at native 4K on PS4 Pro.

The Elder Scrolls Online
Skyrim Remastered
Last of Us Remastered
Shadows of Mordor
PES 2017
FIFA 2017
NBA 2K17

The last 3 are also running at 60fps.

 

[Elbereth]

Yes, there are multiple AAA games running at native 4K on PS4 Pro.

The Elder Scrolls Online
Skyrim Remastered
Last of Us Remastered
Shadows of Mordor
PES 2017
FIFA 2017
NBA 2K17

The last 3 are also running at 60fps.

Excellent. I have all those games (save for the sports titles, not my cup of tea and PS3 LoU) I may pick up LoU when I purchase my PRO.

Thanks.

 

[onQ123]

Yes, there are multiple AAA games running at native 4K on PS4 Pro.

The Elder Scrolls Online
Skyrim Remastered
Last of Us Remastered
Shadows of Mordor
PES 2017
FIFA 2017
NBA 2K17

The last 3 are also running at 60fps.

That was a bait question: why would it matter to someone what PS4 Pro games are native 4K when comparing it to Xbox One S? it wouldn't matter if it's native 4K, native 1800p or checkerboard 4K & so on either way it's going to have a much cleaner image than what Xbox One S will output so I'm not really sure why it would matter if the game is native 4K or not. How does native 4K become important in a situation between Xbox One S & PS4 Pro? even if all the games was native 4K it still don't have a UHD Blu-ray drive which has to be the most important part if it's the reason that he didn't get a PS4 Pro. But even on the flip side if PS4 Pro had a UHD Blu-ray drive Xbox One S would still be the cheaper UHD Blu-ray player so for the people who are buying these consoles with UHD Blu-ray in mind Xbox One S is still the lowest hanging fruit.

 

[lolosgolos]

PS4 Pro has 4K games & 4K movie streaming so how is it that you think that Sony can't market PS4 Pro as a 4K system but think that Microsoft can market Xbox One S as a 4K system?

Their 4K gaming is minimal at best. Their 4K streaming is based on the media service provider and Internet service provider. Too many variables

 

[captainraincoat]

Too soon for an updated blackboard??

Have to admit some of the console deals i have seen around for the xbox have been crazy good and their advertising has been spot on

The ps4 had some good deals but i dont think they have been shouting as loud as ms these last few months.

 

[lolosgolos]

Yes, there are multiple AAA games running at native 4K on PS4 Pro.

The Elder Scrolls Online
Skyrim Remastered
Last of Us Remastered
Shadows of Mordor
PES 2017
FIFA 2017
NBA 2K17

The last 3 are also running at 60fps.

4 of those are also on last gen consoles and it's just embarrassing to add sports games to justify 4k

 

[Rainy]

Microsoft put a lot of great deals out there. Not a huge surprise, wouldn't be surprised if they won the month either.

 

[RexNovis]

Their 4K gaming is minimal at best. Their 4K streaming is based on the media service provider and Internet service provider. Too many variables

4 of those are also on last gen consoles and it's just embarrassing to add sports games to justify 4k

Onward, Console soldier, marching as to war
Blend with yours their voices in subservience ring
Glory, laud and honor unto your corporate king
One in hope and doctrine, see your accounts grey
Onward, Console soldier, marching as to war
With the flag of branding brazenly proclaimed.
Amen.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Onward, Console soldier, marching as to war
Blend with yours their voices in subservience ring
Glory, laud and honor unto your corporate king
One in hope and doctrine, see your accounts grey
Onward, Console soldier, marching as to war
With the flag of branding brazenly proclaimed.
Amen.

Hahaha.

 

[Brad Grenz]

So, if I'm a gamer that has a newly purchased 4K HDR television and I want to watch movies with an added bonus of playing games that I haven't had an opportunity to play... I'm not certain why I should choose otherwise.

ONQ is totally right. Your reasoning is internally inconsistent. Why is the quality difference between streaming and disc based 4K movies more important to a gamer than the gulf between sub-1080p games on an Xbox One S and near-4K to native-4K games on a PS4 Pro? If you just wanted UHD Blu-rays you could have saved money and just bought a dedicated player. If what you really wanted was to gain access to some exclusive titles on Xbox that's totally fine, but don't pretend that has any bearing on the PS4 Pro'd lack of a UHD drive or speaks to any larger trends in the marketplace.

 

[mrklaw]

Adobe has an analytics platform that uses a panel of people, so they don't have all the sales data, but they have a decent number of people over varying demographics and they have all their online data, so they make a call based on that. I'm pretty sure I remember Adobe getting into trouble with installing the tracker alongside other products too?

Adobe have a bunch of analytics products that they sell to companies. They also now own Comscore/DaX which is a large analytics provider commonly used for page tracking. So it's possible they could use an anonymised set of that data to understand what has sold well. However that does sound unusual - I wouldn't think licensees would have to give up that data to adobe as it would be commercially sensitive.

I'm curious how they're doing it too. Maybe they have deals with certain online stores to use select data from high traffic days?

 

[Jenotron]

When there are genuine people out there who think the Xbox One S and Pro are the same it doesn't surprise me.

Microsoft have successfully marketed their Slim model as an all new superior upgrade.

 

[Hasney]

Adobe have a bunch of analytics products that they sell to companies. They also now own Comscore/DaX which is a large analytics provider commonly used for page tracking. So it's possible they could use an anonymised set of that data to understand what has sold well. However that does sound unusual - I wouldn't think licensees would have to give up that data to adobe as it would be commercially sensitive.

I'm curious how they're doing it too. Maybe they have deals with certain online stores to use select data from high traffic days?

Adobes page-level analytics are also way down in the marketplace behind Google Analytics and Webtrends, so even if they did use that data, it wouldn't paint a great picture.

The Comscore side of things is opt-in on the user end, so they would be sending data to Adobe about what they're buying, which means they have a sample size of around 2 million people.

 

[mnemonicj]

Good for Microsoft. Competition is great for all of us consumers.

 

[onQ123]

When there are genuine people out there who think the Xbox One S and Pro are the same it doesn't surprise me.

Microsoft have successfully marketed their Slim model as an all new superior upgrade.

But it is an superior upgrade over the 1st Xbox One.

 

[Elbereth]

ONQ is totally right. Your reasoning is internally inconsistent. Why is the quality difference between streaming and disc based 4K movies more important to a gamer than the gulf between sub-1080p games on an Xbox One S and near-4K to native-4K games on a PS4 Pro? If you just wanted UHD Blu-rays you could have saved money and just bought a dedicated player. If what you really wanted was to gain access to some exclusive titles on Xbox that's totally fine, but don't pretend that has any bearing on the PS4 Pro'd lack of a UHD drive or speaks to any larger trends in the marketplace.

I can't state this more clearly that has been previously stated... I've answered this question in detail, please refer to my previous comment on the matter. I'm not certain if this is a comprehension issue or what but if you have a concise retort to what I've stated, please respond accordingly.

Second, you declare that

but don't pretend that has any bearing on the PS4 Pro'd lack of a UHD drive or speaks to any larger trends in the marketplace.

You state this as fact, so I'm certain that you have proof of the claim...

 

[Liabe Brave]

I can't state this more clearly that has been previously stated... I've answered this question in detail, please refer to my previous comment on the matter.

No, you have never stated any explanation of this question in your previous comments. You simply repeatedly assert "As a gamer, Xbox One S is superior to PS4 Pro." And then go on to talk about its support for movies. Ignoring the fact that it runs games much, much worse than PS4 Pro.

And as others have pointed out to you, the (real) movie benefits you like work against the idea that One S is the better device for gamers. If the image quality difference between streaming 4K and disc 4K is meaningful for films, then the difference between 1080p games and even 1800c games should also be.

You state this as fact, so I'm certain that you have proof of the claim...

His proof is that your posts are purely and solely about your own preferences (wanting 4K disc support). You can't generalize yourself to the whole market.

 

[Elbereth]

No, you have never stated any explanation of this question in your previous comments. You simply repeatedly assert "As a gamer, Xbox One S is superior to PS4 Pro." And then go on to talk about its support for movies. Ignoring the fact that it runs games much, much worse than PS4 Pro.

Feel free to quote me where I state the Xbox One is superior to PS4 Pro.

In fact, I have done quite the opposite in praising the PS4Pro for what is brings to the table, and what the Xbox OneS does as well. The Xbox One appeals to me more at this point as I want to consume native 4K media, and with the added bonus of playing games on a platform that I haven't owned in a couple of generations.

Further, I also go into detail why I feel that it was a missed opportunity for Sony. Does the PS4Pro run games at a better IQ, of course it does. What part of anything I've stated says otherwise? I will own a PS4Pro because of the strength of Sony's first party offerings, as I've always have. It just wasn't the first choice this time as Sony didn't offer an all in one solution, as history shows that they always have. I think it was a missed opportunity here, as I would rather have one device to do it all. The PS4Pro, nor the XBox1 does fit that criteria.

Again, if you want to have meaningful dialogue, at least be honest about what was and wasn't said. I repeat, where have I stated that the Xbox 1S was superior to PS4 Pro?

And as others have pointed out to you, the (real) movie benefits you like work against the idea that One S is the better device for gamers. If the image quality difference between streaming 4K and disc 4K is meaningful for films, then the difference between 1080p games and even 1800c games should also be

His proof is that your posts are purely and solely about your own preferences (wanting 4K disc support). You can't generalize yourself to the whole market.

Who said that the XBox device is a better device for gamers? This strawman argument that you are presenting intellectually dishonest and sad. The better device for gamers will be decided by gamers. I have my first choice on the preference this holiday season, which also may include a second system PS4Pro as the season is far from over.

Further, "generalizing" myself to the whole market? Who made this claim? I think that the PS4Pro would have done even better than it has if it offered a 4K drive in the system, thus giving the competition no reasonable challenge.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Feel free to quote me where I state the Xbox One is superior to PS4 Pro.

...I repeat, where have I stated that the Xbox 1S was superior to PS4 Pro?

Who said that the XBox device is a better device for gamers?

You did, in response to onQ123's question "As a gamer you would settle for lots of games under 1080P vs a console that can do native 4K & checkerboard 4K just to have a UHD Blu-ray player...?" Here's your quote:

As a gamer, a father, not necessarily a movie buff, but I like good movies... Yes.

You have explicitly said Xbox One S is a superior choice to PS4 Pro because of a movie format it plays. It's weird that you're denying you ever said this when it's right there in black and white.

Please note I'm not arguing with your preferences--buy whatever you want! I'm just rejecting the claim that it's logical to choose a console based on what movie formats it plays, when your primary interest is playing games.

 

[Elandyll]

...

As a gamer, it only makes since for to be the XBOX1S. It would have been a PS4Pro first if it would have had that functionality. Again, the fact the Sony decided not to have it is an odd decision, as gamers/consumers like myself would have had their cake and to eat it too. At least, that's what I've come to expect owning all past Sony gaming hardware.

I think that's where you lost people on your reasoning.

Last gen, If someone had came out and said that the PS3's Blu Ray player (which in that case actually had an impact on games, not so for the UHD BR drive here) made it the de-facto preferred choice for GAMERS over a 360, they would have been taken to task as well.

You basically imply that, to you, the ability to play 4K movies is > being able to play games at near 4K or in some cases 4K native on your 4K TV, -AS A GAMER-.

Yes, ideally the Pro would be the whole package (as discussed many times, Sony may not have had a choice here), but your logic is rather flawed.

Why not just admit that to you the ability to play 4K BR movies superseeds the near 4K res games on the Pro? Positing that the XB1S and the Pro are thus the same "because different features but equal", or even that the XB1S is actually the "real deal" in 4K "because marketing" is pointedly absurd.

 

[onQ123]

I think that's where you lost people on your reasoning.

Last gen, If someone had came out and said that the PS3's Blu Ray player (which in that case actually had an impact on games, not so for the UHD BR drive here) made it the de-facto preferred choice for GAMERS over a 360, they would have been taken to task as well.

You basically imply that to you the ability to play 4K movies is > being able to play games at near 4K or in some cases 4K native on your 4K TV, -AS A GAMER-.

Yes, ideally the Pro would be the whole package (as discussed many times, Sony may not have had a choice here), but your logic is rather flawed.

Why not just admit that to you the ability to play 4K BR movies superseeds the near 4K res games on the Pro? Positing that the XB1S and the Pro are thus the same "because different features but equal", or even that the XB1S is actually the "real deal" in 4K "because marketing" is pointedly absurd.

Not only that he also said this

I think that there is misunderstanding here.

This generation, the actual disc space isn't prevalent like it was last gen. However, "4K" is becoming more and more prevalent. The Playstation console isn't synonymous with "4K" this gen. Beyond the technical nomenclature that we understand, Sony can't, won't use this label to sale systems (not that they have to).

Microsoft, (as misleading as it is) can market their machine as "4K". I saw a recent commercial stating that it was the only 4K system. Of course, the games will not be running in 4K, but the media that it plays will. Again, GAF will know the difference, but the average consumer might not. But Microsoft is correct that it is the only "4K" system. Capable of playing native 4K media. If anyone has shelled out money for a new 4K TV and want to play pristine 4K media, the Xbox1 satisfies that. And, it's a video game system.

I simply believe that more Xboxes sold well because of this fact. Of course, the sales gap wasn't wide between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox during the Black Friday rush, but I believe the sales for the PS4Pro would have been much greater if it could market itself as a 4K console games or otherwise.

I really want to know how you can feel that MS is able to market Xbox One S as a 4K console when it only has 4K media playback for now but Sony can't market the PS4 Pro as a 4K console when it has 4K media & 4K games?

please explain this one to me.

 

[Mullah88]

Not only that he also said this





I really want to know how you can feel that MS is able to market Xbox One S as a 4K console when it only has 4K media playback for now but Sony can't market the PS4 Pro as a 4K console when it has 4K media & 4K games?

please explain this one to me.

...because UHD drive


guess streaming doesnt matter

 

[Principate]

...because UHD drive


guess streaming doesnt matter

TBF, the difference in quality between streaming and disk based is vast. Plus you don't need any PS4 devices at all to stream 4k media. Anything with access to the internet and browser can do it.

 

[onQ123]

...because UHD drive


guess streaming doesnt matter

I wonder where he came to the point where he can completely ignore the fact that PS4 Pro has 4K games & media & only recognize UHD Blu-ray playback as being something that classify a console as being a 4K console.

 

[onQ123]

TBF, the difference in quality between streaming and disk based is vast. Plus you don't need any PS4 devices at all to stream 4k media. Anything with access to the internet and browser can do it.

That still ignores the fact that PS4 Pro has 4K games & also 4K is a resolution not a image quality standard so the difference between UHD Blu-ray & streamed 4K media does not change it from being 4K. but even then the quality of 4K streaming is going to get better in the coming year & there will also be 4K media that can be downloaded or ripped to hard drives & streamed over media servers or hooked up through USB.

 

[watership]

I wonder where he came to the point where he can completely ignore the fact that PS4 Pro has 4K games & media & only recognize UHD Blu-ray playback as being something that classify a console as being a 4K console.

Its a little bit of semantics and a bit of truth. Most critics point to the fact that the best 4k content comes from local sources, a game, or from UHD disc. Streaming in a 4K might get you that resolution, but even the best streaming Bitrate on the fastest connection won't get you anywhere close to something a native game or UHD disc. This will likely be the case for at least 5 years.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Its a little bit of semantics and a bit of truth. Most critics point to the fact that the best 4k content comes from local sources, a game, or from UHD disc.

No one's saying 4K discs don't look better than 4K streaming. They're saying that the console situation is this...

Xbox One S
4K streaming
4K movies

PS4 Pro
4K streaming
4K games

...and that doesn't warrant calling one of these devices "4K" and the other one not. Also, if you're primarily interested in games, it's totally illogical to say One S is a better choice on this basis.

 

[Omnistalgic]

TBF, the difference in quality between streaming and disk based is vast. Plus you don't need any PS4 devices at all to stream 4k media. Anything with access to the internet and browser can do it.

It's vast to you man...

How many people are fine bringing their 4K TV's home and playing Blu-ray movies on them? Or even cheap Dvd's?
How many people are fine not jumping into 4K TV's at all?
How many people are fine with the quality of Netflix/Hulu/Streaming services in general?

We are still arguing over this nonsense? 4K is a niche, just because more and more people will buy them every year doesn't make it the standard. And disc based media for movies is a much less important part of many people's lives, and data shows that's a trend that's growing. I don't get why we can't accept us forum people are tech heads and the average person doesn't give a crap. 4K won't be the absolutely standard for TV for a good 2-3 years, and buy then, if disc sales are adequate, Sony will release something that plays the standard. Right now, it just isn't that big of a deal, and we the minority just have to do deal with it.

 

[watership]

No one's saying 4K discs don't look better than 4K streaming. They're saying that the console situation is this...

Xbox One S
4K streaming
4K movies

PS4 Pro
4K streaming
4K games

...and that doesn't warrant calling one of these devices "4K" and the other one not. Also, if you're primarily interested in games, it's totally illogical to say One S is a better choice on this basis.

I know that the games in PS4 Pro can be used to take advantage of the new hardware and scale to 4k but is the native frame buffer 4k for these games?

 

[Brad Grenz]

TBF, the difference in quality between streaming and disk based is vast. Plus you don't need any PS4 devices at all to stream 4k media. Anything with access to the internet and browser can do it.

The difference between games rendered in real time at sub 1080p versus 1440p+ is much larger.

 

[Roc Boy]

No one's saying 4K discs don't look better than 4K streaming. They're saying that the console situation is this...

Xbox One S
4K streaming
4K movies

PS4 Pro
4K streaming
"4K games"

...and that doesn't warrant calling one of these devices "4K" and the other one not. Also, if you're primarily interested in games, it's totally illogical to say One S is a better choice on this basis.

Fixed.