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[Triple U]

Money buys all of that and then some.

Uh, no it doesn't. Ask Microsoft. Or Panasonic. Or SNK.

Edit:

At this point I doubt anybody in both FB and the OR team could tell you any idea about how their production pipeline would look like. Let alone vendors for their parts which Luckey admitted they have trouble with. But they do have the monies, so I expect for someone to be willing to rape them on a contract ala Nvidia/Microsoft. You're right.

 

[darkwing]

PM will not ever going to be PC compatible officially, Sony will not be profiting from the VR hardware, rather it is the software market they are after, specifically the Playstation ecosystem

 

[FyreWulff]

lol

But seriously, its very unlikely that gaming on the Rift will have forced Facebook integration. That would kill it very quickly and make their $2 billion purchase worthless in very short order.

On the other hand, we'll have to scan the Morpheus drivers for a rootkit upon install.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

If Sony wants VR to succeed, they will put out PC drivers for the camera, Move, and Morpheus. It will be a selling point for the PS4, sure, but letting high-end PC gamers get a taste of cross platform goodness has never been a bad thing for MS (or gamers in general), I don't see why they would be opposed to it.

 

[Freeman]

I think it would be wise for Sony to provide PC drivers on the side. It already works on PC since half the demos were running on PC, it is a great way to get people to make games with Move and Morpheus in mind.

I'm not sure how they would have to do it. If they intend on subsidizing it for the PS4 things get a little big trickier.

They would be wise to invest on the PC regardless. MS biggest mistake with Kinect was making it difficult to have it on PC.

Its past time for Sony to have a PC storefront that also sells PC games anyway, maybe publishing VR games on PC could prove a viable way of getting them to PlayStation as well. They can use cross-buy to their advantage by having a presence in the PC market.

 

[Oppo]

On the other hand, we'll have to scan the Morpheus drivers for a rootkit upon install.

omg

Sony BMG did that 10 years ago. On CDs.

 

[monome]

Occulus is far from dead.

With FB money they have the leverage to create good hardware and work on a killer app.

Remember the smartphone and how its many uses have made it into a mainstream gaming medium.

I suppose this is the way to look at Occulus now.

Sony will compete against Valve in a specs/price war, while Occulus is directly going towards a rock bottom price with an ecosystem to sustain the use of its hardware.

Now, who do you think will be better positionned once the whining is over?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I think it would be wise for Sony to provide PC drivers on the side. It already works on PC since half the demos were running on PC, it is a great way to get people to make games with Move and Morpheus in mind.

I'm not sure how they would have to do it. If they intend on subsidizing it for the PS4 things get a little big trickier.

They would be wise to invest on the PC regardless. MS biggest mistake with Kinect was making it difficult to have it on PC.

Its past time for Sony to have a PC storefront that also sells PC games anyway, maybe publishing VR games on PC could prove a viable way of getting them to PlayStation as well. They can use cross-buy to their advantage by having a presence in the PC market.

There is no way that Sony makes VR for the PC. Not even a remote chance. It really surprises me how this is plausible to so many here.

 

[driver116]

Based on?

His anti-Sony bias.

 

[Frayne Daddy]

In reality I think the kind of backing oculus will get will make it that much harder to compete with. I think they will end up stomping on sony's VR unfortunately.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

His anti-Sony bias.

I've been found out!

 

[driver116]

I've been found out!

But why?

 

[ElTorro]

Wars over proprietary standards are a common thing with new technologies.

One threat is that both companies, Facebook and Sony, might try to patent parts of the technology and sell licenses, for instance just for writing an application that uses their VR. Another threat might be that both companies might couple the use of their devices to other products. Sony might keep Morpheus exclusive to PlayStation to boost PlayStation sales, while Facebook might do bullshit like requiring a Facebook account just to use the device with any application.

My uneducated intuition is that both approaches might be more profitable than expanding the target group to PC gamers (in Sony's case) or developers/gamers who don't want anything to do with Facebook.

 

[Oppo]

Occulus is far from dead.

With FB money they have the leverage to create good hardware and work on a killer app.

Remember the smartphone and how its many uses have made it into a mainstream gaming medium.

I suppose this is the way to look at Occulus now.

Sony will compete against Valve in a specs/price war, while Occulus is directly going towards a rock bottom price with an ecosystem to sustain the use of its hardware.

Now, who do you think will be better positionned once the whining is over?

Well... to be fair, also remember that Facebook launched a smartphone to much pre-hype, and it completely tanked.

I don't think the situations are directly analogous but nothing is certain.

 

[gamechanger87]

I'm actually concerned that this may have just killed off Morpheus. Sony will still release the product, but they have little chance of getting widespread adoption which will limit software. This will become another one of their accessories supported by first party and ignored by third.

The reasons are:

1. Technology: Sony will be forced to keep the Morpheus at a certain set of specs to make sure that it can run on PS4 for the life of the console. OR will have no such limitation.
2. R&D/Employees: OR now has essentially a limitless R&D budget and the clout to hire the best minds out there to push their tech.
3. Marketing: A given.
4. Purchasing: Sony's one advantage would be product sourcing, with FB's backing they will be able make large enough purchases to get bulk pricing.
5. Price: OR will be priced much lower than it was previously thought. FB has no interest in making money on the HW sales, they are looking for future monetization by making their product the gold standard. For anyone who says this is false look at IG and Whats App. Sony will likely need to try and recoup some costs here and they will struggle to price this as a loss leader. They are still struggling as a company and will be able to price this to compete.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

But why?

Why what?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Wars over proprietary standards are a common thing with new technologies.

One threat is that both companies, Facebook and Sony, might try to patent parts of the technology and sell licenses, for instance just for writing an application that uses their VR. Another threat might be that both companies might couple the use of their devices to other products. Sony might keep Morpheus exclusive to PlayStation to boost PlayStation sales, while Facebook might do bullshit like requiring a Facebook account just to use the device with any application.

My uneducated intuition is that both approaches might be more profitable than expanding the target group to PC gamers (in Sony's case) or developers/gamers who don't want anything to do with Facebook.

- There is no way that a FB account will be required for OR games.

- Morpheus, if and when it comes to market, will be sold at cost or less to provide a user base large enough to make money on software. They have no choice whether or not to keep it exclusive to their hardware- that's the only reason it exists.

 

[gofreak]

Shorter term Sony should just engage more and more with Oculus-focussed developers. I'm sure many would not mind hedging their bets now with a second offering for a variety of reasons.

 

[Dragon]

I've been found out!

Not exactly breaking news .

 

[Freeman]

There is no way that Sony makes VR for the PC. Not even a remote chance. It really surprises me how this is plausible to so many here.

It plausible because, Facebook just spent 2 billion dollars to get into that market, any investor will want Sony to at least have some presence there.

They have all the incentive in the world to do so. If you buy a Morpheus/Camera and Move to use on PC, it also makes a purchase of the PS4 much more attractive since you already have all this gear and there will be certainly exclusive VR content on the PS4.

It opens many doors for Sony. In the end VR isn't only about games, Sony knows that. To succeed they will either have to open the PS4 for all kinds of application including experimental demos, porn, unfinished software (things that they certainly wont do) or allow for their product to have a pretense in a more open platform.

They have SOE making PC games, its not like Sony is against having a presence in PC gaming.

Keeping the Morpheus restricted to PlayStaion 4 is like making PlayStation exclusive TVs.

 

[driver116]

Being headed by SCE suggests it will be exclusive to Playstation.

 

[FiggyCal]

If Sony wants VR to succeed, they will put out PC drivers for the camera, Move, and Morpheus. It will be a selling point for the PS4, sure, but letting high-end PC gamers get a taste of cross platform goodness has never been a bad thing for MS (or gamers in general), I don't see why they would be opposed to it.

Sony would be dumb to not release it on PC.

- There is no way that a FB account will be required for OR games.

- Morpheus, if and when it comes to market, will be sold at cost or less to provide a user base large enough to make money on software. They have no choice whether or not to keep it exclusive to their hardware- that's the only reason it exists.

I'm not sure how you get to these conclusions; but I disagree.

 

[Triple U]

Wars over proprietary standards are a common thing with new technologies.

One threat is that both companies, Facebook and Sony, might try to patent parts of the technology and sell licenses, for instance just for writing an application that uses their VR. Another threat might be that both companies might couple the use of their devices to other products. Sony might keep Morpheus exclusive to PlayStation to boost PlayStation sales, while Facebook might do bullshit like requiring a Facebook account just to use the device with any application.

My uneducated intuition is that both approaches might be more profitable than expanding the target group to PC gamers (in Sony's case) or developers/gamers who don't want anything to do with Facebook.

There's no reason they couldn't target both strategies concurrently. There's little to no evidence of any significant overlap to PC and consoles. Currently and maybe permanently, Sony has the console monopoly on VR. I don't see much risk at all of them losing user base to a platform that would cost significantly more time, effort and money to use.

Sony supporting PC seems like an easy kill. There's not much work at all to get up and running on PC, especially when their console architecture is so similar in the first place.

Being headed by SCE suggests it will be exclusive to Playstation.

No, not really. They've almost blatantly left the possibility of other platforms open in interviews....

 

[Crimsonsky]

...the hardcore PC VR market?

We saw how Sony handled MS so far this generation. Basically they showed what they had, let the competition dig its own grave, and then trumpet how much better their approach was.

It's amazing how simple this approach is and just how effective it's been. I'm astounded by how lucky Sony has been that their competition is full of fools willing to toss themselves on their own swords.

 

[ElTorro]

- There is no way that a FB account will be required for OR games.

Who knows. Facebook might very well "do the Apple" and require that applications for Oculus Rift can only be distributed of an App Store (with content restrictions) owned by Facebook and requiring a Facebook account.

 

[chaostrophy]

My Sony TV works fine with my PC, and with consoles from multiple generations and manufacturers, including Sony's competitors. A VR headset should be the same way, since it'll be closer in price to a TV than to a typical console peripheral like a controller or camera. I can't see Morpheus being a good value proposition if it's restricted to the PS4 only.

 

[Miletius]

I think it's possible. While v1.0 of Morpheus may be tied to Playstation I also don't see why, with wider adoption, Sony wouldn't want it to be on a variety of devices.

But, I also don't see a huge benefit in targeting hardcore gamers specifically. If Sony were to open up the device, I'd imagine they would actually do the opposite, open it up to target non-gamers who might want VR experiences that aren't games. Clearly, gamers would feel free to come along for the ride, though.

 

[PS2 KID]

If Sony were to target VR on the PC they probably wouldn't do it with Project Morpheus tech. If they launch next year, I assume they would leverage the OLED panels in their HMZ 3D Viewer lineup and spread the costs of future 1080p panels (if they go that route). The PC headset would be expensive but it would be top notch if they apply VR type optics to it.

Or they could just launch two models of Project Morpheus for PS4 and PC to keep costs in check.

 

[andromeduck]

If the final version doesn't use HDMI, but uses wireless whatever, we may have a problem. More likely, we will have a problem getting accelerational data out of it over USB (need drivers) and tracking the lights with a PS Eye (need drivers).

what's wrong with widi?

they're probably going to use some version of miracast over 5 GHz if they go wireless

 

[vpance]

Target one of the most niche and value conscious markets, why?

 

[Oppo]

My Sony TV works fine with my PC, and with consoles from multiple generations and manufacturers, including Sony's competitors. A VR headset should be the same way, since it'll be closer in price to a TV than to a typical console peripheral like a controller or camera. I can't see Morpheus being a good value proposition if it's restricted to the PS4 only.

I really don't see why they can't just offer a kit for PC developers but continue to make exclusive VR first party games for PS4. The content is what will drive everything; the hardware is just a bridge.

It would behoove Sony to leverage that indie love into their new headset.

 

[dynamitejim]

I could see Sony pushing Morpheus as a standard they have a large stake in ala BluRay and opening it up for use to other companies. Sony would be stupid not to integrate it into their own product lines at the very least.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It plausible because, Facebook just spent 2 billion dollars to get into that market, any investor will want Sony to at least have some presence there.

They have all the incentive in the world to do so. If you buy a Morpheus/Camera and Move to use on PC, it also makes a purchase of the PS4 much more attractive since you already have all this gear and there will be certainly exclusive VR content on the PS4.

It opens many doors for Sony. In the end VR isn't only about games, Sony knows that. To succeed they will either have to open the PS4 for all kinds of application including experimental demos, porn, unfinished software (things that they certainly wont do) or allow for their product to have a pretense in a more open platform.

They have SOE making PC games, its not like Sony is against have a presence in PC gaming.

Keeping the Morpheus restricted to PlayStaion 4 is like making PlayStation exclusive TVs.

That makes no sense whatsoever. VR isn't just a screen.

There is no proof that VR would even be a popular mainstream product. There is no reason right now for Sony to believe that they need presence in the market. It's a peripheral/platform similar to Kinect, at best. Of course they see it's potential for PS consoles, and that's why it exists.

Facebook can do whatever they want, unlike Sony. They can invest billions in a potential market and shrug it off if it doesn't pan out. Sony can't.

I could go on and on. There is no rational, reasonable argument to support a plausible scenario of Sony selling PC VR hardware.

Who knows. Facebook might very well "do the Apple" and require that applications for Oculus Rift can only be distributed of an App Store (with content restrictions) owned by Facebook and requiring a Facebook account.

There was already an official statement from Oculus stating that their official portal isn't going to be required.

Sony would be dumb to not release it on PC.



I'm not sure how you get to these conclusions; but I disagree.

Common sense. Sony's business model is for them to sell games. That's why they have the best game studios in the world. VR would be a platform- games would have to be specifically designed for that hardware. If they don't sell a lot of the hardware, they don't sell a lot of games for it.

As for the FB account, it would be asinine to require it, for one thing. It would be counter-productive for an emerging market to alienate potential customers for such a stupid reason. Many, many people do not want their personal information out there. Many people just don't like Facebook- that's actually one of the reasons behind FB's choices in acquisitions. Obviously, it's in FB's interest for Oculus to be successful.

 

[Triple U]

That makes no sense whatsoever. VR isn't just a screen.

There is no proof that VR would even be a popular mainstream product. There is no reason right now for Sony to believe that they need presence in the market. It's a peripheral/platform similar to Kinect, at best. Of course they see it's potential for PS consoles, and that's why it exists.

Facebook can do whatever they want, unlike Sony. They can invest billions in a potential market and shrug it off if it doesn't pan out. Sony can't.

I could go on and on. There is no rational, reasonable argument to support a plausible scenario of Sony selling PC VR hardware.


There was already an official statement from Oculus stating that their official portal isn't going to be required.

Please do. Its hilarious so far.

 

[TRios Zen]

Assumption 1: the high entry cost is the biggest issue that any VR tech has to overcome to achieve mass market potential.

Assumption 2: VR tech is not a proven mass market product - today. Not saying it won't be, just saying that there is no guarantee that it will be.

Assumption 3: Facebook acquisition does not doom the Rift. Could the FB team screw things up? Sure. Is it guaranteed that they will? No.

Given these three things I'm not sure why Sony would chase the PC market, when they stand to gain more by waiting. That is, the ONLY way releasing Morpheus as a direct competitor on the PC to the Rfit works for Sony is if they can beat them on price, supply and content.

IF they wait to see how the Rift does in the market they can respond with fewer risks. That is, if it is successful, they have a ready competitor for their console to secure the PS4 market. If the Rift is found lacking in some way on the PC, they can port it over at that time. The risks, in this scenario are all taken by the Occulus/Facebook folks, NOT Sony..

 

[Freeman]

That makes no sense whatsoever. VR isn't just a screen.

There is no proof that VR would even be a popular mainstream product. There is no reason right now for Sony to believe that they need presence in the market. It's a peripheral/platform similar to Kinect, at best. Of course they see it's potential for PS consoles, and that's why it exists.

Facebook can do whatever they want, unlike Sony. They can invest billions in a potential market and shrug it off if it doesn't pan out. Sony can't.

I could go on and on. There is no rational, reasonable argument to support a plausible scenario of Sony selling PC VR hardware.



There was already an official statement from Oculus stating that their official portal isn't going to be required.

Did I say it was just a screen? How is that even relevant?

Well, regardless, what you say makes no sense. The cost of allowing it to work with PC is ridiculously small (it already works) and they have much to gain by doing so.

If you are so sure of it, why do you even care man?

 

[FyreWulff]

omg

Sony BMG did that 10 years ago. On CDs.

Yes, and?

People shouldn't be painting a corporation as an ally against another corporation when they've both had nefarious or antagonistic actions. They're both publically traded companies trying to maximize shareholder ROI. I'm not sure why Sony would exactly be the anti-Facebook when they've had the deepest integration of social in their consoles, and tried to have real names as standard on the PS4.

I don't believe a single Facebook application or content has attempted to leave the browser sandbox or app sandbox it runs in, on any platform. Sony explicity used a Windows exploit to install snooping software without permission just because you decided to buy a legitimate music CD from them. At no point in the corporate chain did anyone say "this is a bad idea".

All I ask is set aside the PR feelgood about -anyone- and examine these companies' past actions. If people truly feel Facebook is moving in for control, why would someone wish for a different company to have control instead? Why not now push for a VR headset built entire off open source code and open documentation licensing? VR games shouldn't be built to specific hardware anyway, but to a base spec.

 

[U-R]

It's actually terrible news for Morpheus: Oculus went from a bunch of guys dutch-taping pieces to have basically an infinite budget from a company that doesn't care that hardware is sold for profit. This leaves Sony with basically only the PS4 market viable for a sold-for-profit custom tech.

 

[w1ck3dn1nj4]

Proprietary crap vs Despicable shit

Talk about a hard choice

 

[Durante]

Why? I mean increasing pixel count isn't really "tied" either - it's just the gains for console itself would become marginal/meaningless past certain resolution, but refresh rates should be pretty much completely agnostic.

As far as I understood every talk on VR/HMDs and low persistence which I've seen, you need to match framerate to refresh rate for it to work. That would be hard with multiple iterations of increasing refresh rate on consoles. Or are you saying that the hardware should just support a legacy mode? I guess that would work.

 

[methodman]

So for a guy who doesn't have a ps4, he'll have to buy:
A ps4
Playstation plus
Morpheus
Playstation camera
Playstation move

Word? Is that correct? Right now that's gonna be over 800 dollars If I give the benefit of the doubt to finding cheaper deals on most of those items.

 

[chickdigger802]

sony always has opportunities, but this is sony we are talking about. they will whiff 90% of the time.

 

[kaching]

Yeah, they're not taking Morpheus to the PC. The Playstation is the only thing keeping Sony afloat right now, and they're going to keep any VR developments locked up in their ecosystem.

It'd still be their "ecosystem" if they extended it to the PC. Not unlike what they've talked about for extended PS Now beyond PS devices eventually. It's more likely a question of resources and where they want to prioritize their attention first

But I think everyone is really just getting ahead of themselves in these discussions. VR is just going to be an incredibly small market for the forseeable future. I doubt it'll really be starting to take off before the next generation of consoles is ready to be announced.

 

[crazygambit]

There is no way that Sony makes VR for the PC. Not even a remote chance. It really surprises me how this is plausible to so many here.

I wouldn't say there's no chance. Look at the Pulse Elite line. The only way you get people to fork out that kind of money for a headset is to assure them that besides being designed to work perfectly out of the gate with PS3 and PS4 you can also use it on PC, Mac and as a regular headset with a cable. If it only worked on PS3 the value wouldn't nearly be the same, so it's good business to make it open.

The VR headset should be much more expensive, if it doesn't have the added value of working on PCs they will need A LOT of software out of the gate to justify its price. I think their best bet would be to make it open, but all the cool first party software that takes it to the next level be exclusive to PS4. That might make it a much better value than OR if they have similar prices.

 

[ghst]

gee, wouldn't it be great if PC gamers could flee facebook for a magical egalitarian wonder corporation like sony.

i have zero interest in joining the playstation ecosystem. if sony can stomach the idea of selling discrete hardware for hardware's sake, then i'll be interested. i just want options.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Yeah, they're not taking Morpheus to the PC. The Playstation is the only thing keeping Sony afloat right now, and they're going to keep any VR developments locked up in their ecosystem.

It didn't launch with the console so it's never going to be a big success on the PS4.

On the other hand, sony now have an opportunity to become the market leader on the pc side. Only question really is, "are people interested" - is it worth chasing that market?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I wouldn't say there's no chance. Look at the Pulse Elite line. The only way you get people to fork out that kind of money for a headset is to assure them that besides being designed to work perfectly out of the gate with PS3 and PS4 you can also use it on PC, Mac and as a regular headset with a cable. If it only worked on PS3 the value wouldn't nearly be the same, so it's good business to make it open.

They're headphones.

 

[Oppo]

Yes, and?

And your post was a silly cheap shot with no relevance.

People shouldn't be painting a corporation as an ally against another corporation when they've both had nefarious or antagonistic actions. They're both publically traded companies trying to maximize shareholder ROI. I'm not sure why Sony would exactly be the anti-Facebook when they've had the deepest integration of social in their consoles, and tried to have real names as standard on the PS4.

Agreed. (Although 'deepest integration of social' is a pretty pale exageration. It has some bare hooks to FB names and Twitter pictures.)

I don't believe a single Facebook application or content has attempted to leave the browser sandbox or app sandbox it runs in, on any platform. Sony explicity used a Windows exploit to install snooping software without permission just because you decided to buy a legitimate music CD from them. At no point in the corporate chain did anyone say "this is a bad idea".

This is where you go off the rails. SonyBMG were pilloried for it; that was a whole other separate division of Sony (the record label); it was instigated by a 3rd party functionary IIRC, and it was a long time ago. If you are saying Facebook hasn't stepped over the privacy line several times, then I'm not sure what to tell you, other that you should read some more about their short history. See your own point, above.

All I ask is set aside the PR feelgood about -anyone- and examine these companies' past actions. If people truly feel Facebook is moving in for control, why would someone wish for a different company to have control instead? Why not now push for a VR headset built entire off open source code and open documentation licensing? VR games shouldn't be built to specific hardware anyway, but to a base spec.

I think the short answer is: we know what Sony sells us. They sell us hardware and software. You buy a thing, or you buy a piece of media or game. You know what you are paying for and the line is bright and clear, for their motivations.

Facebook sells you. They take no money from users, but rather, collect data around user patterns, and sell that. To my mind that's a big difference.

 

[crazygambit]

They're headphones.

And this is a one person monitor. I'm not getting your point. I could easily see this going either way.

 

[HaNks]

more importantly what kind of hardware are sony even targeting?

rift dude says they are going for > 1080p (perhaps 1440p based on OLED manufacture) and hopefully 120hz, if not 90/100.

morpheus should be a great experience for ps4 users, but i can't see it competing on the hardware side with CV1. further reason it would stay tied to the sony ecosystem. no VR wars just speculating on the info we have so far.