AJUMP23
Member
Don’t load a gun and hand it to
Nobody_Important
. He would shoot
DeepEnigma
and claim he is not responsible, he was just handed the gun. He didn’t load it.
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Guy who pulls the trigger and did not follow the universal safety rules is not responsible for killing the person he killed and the other he severely injured.It's the same circular argument that we had before when this first happened. You see Baldwin as the person mainly responsible for this. I don't. Neither do most people in my experience.
Agree to disagree.
Well said.Pro 2nd amendment, always hated Baldwins politics yet I love him in 30 rock and think he insanely funny and talented. The charges never made sense to me.
If there is a scene where actors are going to stab each other and someone swaps a dummy knife for the real one last second why would you blame the actor. Even more asinine when fake vs real bullets is less noticeable than fake gun or bullets. The always check crowd have maybe a 10 percent point.
This is why sets have armorers in the first place. Everyone saying they check at all times are liars plain and simp.
If I was an actor and the production gave me a gun for the scene I am fucking in the zone and blasting away.
You would only do that if there was a common procedure to check the knife each time it was handed to you. In this case, there was that common procedure and it was ignored.If there is a scene where actors are going to stab each other and someone swaps a dummy knife for the real one last second why would you blame the actor.
If I remember right, there wasn't even supposed to be blanks in the gun. It should have been empty, and it would have been easy to check.Even more asinine when fake vs real bullets is less noticeable than fake gun or bullets.
Then you'd be responsible for someone's death. If there's a commonplace procedure to check the weapon that you were just handed, and you didn't follow that procedure, even if somehow you were legally protected from charges you would still be responsible for someone's death.If I was an actor and the production gave me a gun for the scene I am fucking in the zone and blasting away.
The guns are meant to be loaded no?Don’t load a gun and hand it to Nobody_Important . He would shoot DeepEnigma and claim he is not responsible, he was just handed the gun. He didn’t load it.
Don’t load a gun and hand it to Nobody_Important . He would shoot DeepEnigma and claim he is not responsible, he was just handed the gun. He didn’t load it.
You would only do that if there was a common procedure to check the knife each time it was handed to you. In this case, there was that common procedure and it was ignored.
If I remember right, there wasn't even supposed to be blanks in the gun. It should have been empty, and it would have been easy to check.
Then you'd be responsible for someone's death. If there's a commonplace procedure to check the weapon that you were just handed, and you didn't follow that procedure, even if somehow you were legally protected from charges you would still be responsible for someone's death.
Quoting myself from earlier in the thread:
When this whole thing first happened I didn't know what to think. Then gun experts started showing up saying it would have been impossible for that gun to fire without someone pulling the trigger. Baldwin said he never pulled the trigger. Then an FBI report came to the same conclusion, that the trigger would have had to have been pulled.
The other big thing that convinced me was George Clooney saying that he (as an actor) is essentially the last line of defense every time someone hands him a gun on set. He checks the weapon himself every time.
There shouldn't be any real bullets anywhere near the set though and definitely there shouldn't be any in the carefully controlled armory mixed in with blanks and dummy rounds.You would only do that if there was a common procedure to check the knife each time it was handed to you. In this case, there was that common procedure and it was ignored.
If I remember right, there wasn't even supposed to be blanks in the gun. It should have been empty, and it would have been easy to check.
I think that stuff all exists, but it’s as you mentioned a budget issue and you would still want real guns and bullets for some shots to show authentic recoil and flash if you need that like in a gritty western. It’s totally a choice to not have any real guns or bullets on set, one that I bet more people will be choosing, but if those reports about people playing cowboy with the guns were true the issue was that there was not the appropriate culture of safety and seriousness on set. People should know guns are not toys, that’s when things start slipping and live ammo ends up in the “prop” gun.Why do they even have a real gun that can fire real bullets? Surely they can build replica guns that do the job of blanks with using real guns at all. Remove the real gun and blank bullets entirely I say. Just have a pop cap type deal that is a totally different mechanism away from real guns 100%. You know a bit of Hollywood budget spent on safety first.
That's a good point.Are the actors in jail for killing Brandon Lee? Nope. Cus not they faullllllt.
No, because they were not at fault, because common safety procedures were not in place then, because Brandon Lee hadn't been shot yet. After he was shot, general practice became to have more than one point of failure, and to share responsibility.I would not be responsible for anyone's death and I am literally right legally. The case was dropped. Are the actors in jail for killing Brandon Lee? Nope. Cus not they faullllllt.
on a side note I watched a movie with Clooney and Jeniifer Lopez about a heist and I come to realize Clooney acting annoys me. It's always the same shit, his voice and the way he talks never changes. It's so self aware look how charming I am. His mannerisms are so annoying once you notice them.
Other than dork ass George Clooney.
Looks like he might not have pulled the trigger after allThe buck stops with whomever pulls the trigger. Period. Firing weapons is a fun experience for those that haven’t done it before. It also makes you truly grasp how dangerous they are. If you have a real weapon in your hands, it doesn’t matter how many other people said your weapon is clear. You clear the weapon yourself. Always.
If you have a mix of real and fake weapons, it’s still the rule to follow because there is no do-over. If you pull the trigger and a bullet comes out, you are responsible for everything that happens to anything in the path of that bullet. It’s why I will never fire a weapon into the air, you have no idea where those bullets will go.
They sure are selling this to those who are ignorant to guns. Vast majority of modified triggers are to lesson the lbs in the pull, two stage, or smoother action. Still doesn't shooty bang bang on their own unless activated anymore than an original trigger, and in a lot of cases, those triggers mechanisms are of higher quality than factory.Looks like he might not have pulled the trigger after all
https://www.tmz.com/2023/04/21/alec-baldwin-gun-rust-shooting-trigger-modified/
No, because they were not at fault, because common safety procedures were not in place then, because Brandon Lee hadn't been shot yet. After he was shot, general practice became to have more than one point of failure, and to share responsibility.
What Clooney said doesn't really make any sense because prop guns DO often contain blanks or other sorts of mock ammunition. Taking a stance that you ALWAYS make sure it's empty because you're George Clooney, perfect and awesome unlike Baldwin ignores this fact.Seriously, though, it does make sense that the vast majority of productions would have gone to a system with multiple points of failure after the death of Brandon Lee, so I don't really have reason to doubt Clooney. He does come off as a little smug at times, though, I'll give you that.
No, no, see this particular gun was able to self-discharge for reasons that haven't been explained or verified! Next, we'll learn that it aims independent of who's holding it, too.Are we forgetting that Baldwin pointed the gun at the person when and fired the trigger when it wasnt even part of the scene? The gun didn't simply go off; he pointed it at someone and shot it for no reason.
Every set I have worked on, the actor checked the gun in front of the person that handed it off to them. There were several other actors besides Clooney who have come out and said that they too were the last line of defense and that they have never worked a set that did not practice this nor have they ever pointed the firearms at a living being. They are instructed on the gun safety rules.What Clooney said doesn't really make any sense because prop guns DO often contain blanks or other sorts of mock ammunition. Taking a stance that you ALWAYS make sure it's empty because you're George Clooney, perfect and awesome unlike Baldwin ignores this fact.
The charge is manslaughter, not murder.Baldwin isnt some murderer.
According to American law he'd get away with it tooDon’t load a gun and hand it to Nobody_Important . He would shoot DeepEnigma and claim he is not responsible, he was just handed the gun. He didn’t load it.
It's fascinating how these bullshit narratives spread. It'sa "faulty" gun now is it? If true he only broke 3/4 of the gun safety rules. Good job.So the FBI made a mistake, and the gun was actually faulty after all proving Baldwin correct - that he never pulled the trigger, the gun went off while they were doing rehearsals. This new evidence was compelling enough to the prosecutors to drop all charges.
It's a shame that someone died, especially someone so young, but at least an innocent man doesn't also have to be subjected to trial over it.
I felt really sorry for Baldwin after seeing those interrogations and body cam vids. It must be a horrific thing to go through. And those poor kids...Yep people here just have a hate boner for liberal Holywood qnd want them to suffer any chance they get.
Baldwin isnt some murderer.
It's fascinating how these bullshit narratives spread. It'sa "faulty" gun now is it? If true he only broke 3/4 of the gun safety rules. Good job.
The article has been updated.Charges dropped for now.
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We don't have enough information to go on imo. For all we know this is Baldwin's legal team working overtime to spin the news. I'm skeptical the gun could go off without a trigger pull but I guess more info will come out in time.The only relations of events from that day I've seen or read was Alec Baldwin's interview, I believe with ABC News, shortly after the tragedy occurred. He related how they were performing rehearsals, during which he adjusted the cylinder of the gun several times, etc. The only contradictory information I saw was the FBI's initial assessment that the gun was sound and could have only discharged via a trigger pull.
Later, as in this recent news, further investigations apparently applied more scrutiny and found that the FBI's assessment of the weapon was in error. This new evidence was compelling enough to the prosecution that they dropped all charges. On ABC News yesterday they showed clips from the rehearsal that Baldwin related in his original interview, and these clips corroborate his recollection of events (they show him sitting in front of a camera adjusting the gun in the same manner in which he related during his interview last year).
If you know of additional testimony claiming that any of that is incorrect, that these investigators are lying or incorrect in their findings regarding the firearm, or that the video of the rehearsals were somehow doctored, I'd like to see it. It looks to me to be copacetic, innocent until proven guilty, etc. I see no reason to doubt Baldwin's recollection of events given everything I've seen and read, and the prosecution doesn't either.
Edit: I see the armorer and her lawyer claim Baldwin violated some kind of safety rule regarding pointing a gun at someone on set, but I can't locate a list of these rules (apparently there's four of them according to your quote?), any sort of validation that they're official, or evidence that Baldwin actually did what they claim.
In what way?The article has been updated.
Reads like manslaughter is dropped but other charges may still be pending, guess we'll see.In what way?
The only relations of events from that day I've seen or read was Alec Baldwin's interview, I believe with ABC News, shortly after the tragedy occurred. He related how they were performing rehearsals, during which he adjusted the cylinder of the gun several times, etc. The only contradictory information I saw was the FBI's initial assessment that the gun was sound and could have only discharged via a trigger pull.
Later, as in this recent news, further investigations apparently applied more scrutiny and found that the FBI's assessment of the weapon was in error. This new evidence was compelling enough to the prosecution that they dropped all charges. On ABC News yesterday they showed clips from the rehearsal that Baldwin related in his original interview, and these clips corroborate his recollection of events (they show him sitting in front of a camera adjusting the gun in the same manner in which he related during his interview last year).
If you know of additional testimony claiming that any of that is incorrect, that these investigators are lying or incorrect in their findings regarding the firearm, or that the video of the rehearsals were somehow doctored, I'd like to see it. It looks to me to be copacetic, innocent until proven guilty, etc. I see no reason to doubt Baldwin's recollection of events given everything I've seen and read, and the prosecution doesn't either.
Edit: I see the armorer and her lawyer claim Baldwin violated some kind of safety rule regarding pointing a gun at someone on set, but I can't locate a list of these rules (apparently there's four of them according to your quote?), any sort of validation that they're official, or evidence that Baldwin actually did what they claim.
Take a look at this behind the scenes of 3:10 Yuma. Within the first minute there is a guy being 'shot' at point blank range, and several shots of people firing directly at camera with a cameraman behind the camera with only a plastic facemask for protection.
I'm assuming they're talking about these onesQuoting myself from earlier in this thread. Watch the first minute of this video and assuming they didn't produce an official behind the scenes doc that shows gross negligence - I am interested to know if anyone can tell me what these rules are?
The first two of which are violated repeatedly within 1 minute of the official 3:10 Yuma behind the scenes documentary. So it should be pretty obvious they don't apply in the same way on a movie set - that or the 3:10 Yuma was the most fucked up production ever.I'm assuming they're talking about these ones
The 4 universal rules of gun safety are:
- Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
- Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
- Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
I'm assuming they're talking about these ones
The 4 universal rules of gun safety are:
- Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
- Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
- Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
Good. Noone should get off from taking a life so callously, mistake or not. It's manslaughter, and he should pay the price.Charges against Alec Baldwin could be refiled as forensic report shows trigger on gun used in ‘Rust’ shooting had to be pulled
(CNN) — Independent testing on the weapon used in a fatal shooting on the set of the film “Rust” shows the trigger had to be pulled, the gun fired normallysmithmountainlake.com
I get what you're saying and I agree completely. That being said, we have seen some rich fucks get their come uppance as of late, maybe this will be the next?I have no faith in the legal system when it comes to the wealthy. He'll get off again... Just like all other wealthy people who commit crimes (unless they commit a crime against another wealthy person).
I get what you're saying and I agree completely. That being said, we have seen some rich fucks get their come uppance as of late, maybe this will be the next?
Look how long it took for them to catch Epstein.I have no faith in the legal system when it comes to the wealthy. He'll get off again... Just like all other wealthy people who commit crimes (unless they commit a crime against another wealthy person).