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[IlGialloMondadori]

Goddamn it can people please stop spamming with dumb arguments that have been discussed for ages and are absolutely not gotchas?

Just do a little bit of reading, be curious, show some imagination and respect, and think like a scientist instead of just spamming other people’s bad takes?

 

[SF Kosmo]

I think the point is that if an alien species were to have the technological capabilities to travel many light years to reach Earth, then it's not going to be a few pilots, or a couple of radar emplacements that will be the only things to detect them.

I am guessing you didn't listen to the testimony because that is not at all what they described.

According to both pilots these were not isolated incidents. In the case of the orb-like things he said they were observed regularly by countless pilots over the course of 8 years, so much so that they planned for orb contingencies when running their exercises.

In the case of the tictac they had been observing these things dropping down from space and hovering there for hours and then leaving. They were corroborated by cameras, radar, and visual confirmation by four different pilots and when they left radar tracked them traveling for miles.

And while I'm sure you - and others - may come back with the argument that they could have special cloaking devices, or some such similar, because they are so technologically advanced... scientific reality doesn't support those kinds of sci-fi concepts.

I am saying the opposite of that. It was Hasan who seemed to imply that they would be able to evade detection by virtue of being tech gods.

For instance, travelling at warp drive speeds would make an awful lot of 'noise', given that it would require the manipulation of the spacetime continuum itself via collapsed mass, which, needless to say, would be extremely noticeable and easy to detect.

We haven't observed them doing this. They were traveling at around Mach 2, it was more the fact that they did it without having to accelerate that places it beyond human technology.

To put it mildly, if aliens were ever to visit this planet, we'd all fucking know about it.

It sounds like maybe a lot of people do...

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying improbable. You keep bringing up the flight thing, yet, we did it because we knew it was possible (I don't know where you got impossible from) because, well, birds and insects fly, so it's not impossible.

To detect us WE have to send out signals that can be detected, you can't just chance on seeing something so far away (even if you could) because space is frickin huge. Then again, I guess they could use a smell-o-scope.

Oh, and please dont bring religious texts into this, religious texts such as the bible are not scientific books.

But again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong (about the existence of extra Terrestrials that is, not religion)

Got it. Sounded to me like you were saying it was impossible; you having the opinion it's "improbable" is a disagreement I can live with.

Maybe I should've clarified to say "heavier than air" human flight was thought to be impossible. Where did I say that everyone thought it was impossible? Obviously some people thought it was possible, some thought impossible. Here's what ChatGPT has to say on that:

"People believed that flying machines heavier than air were impossible because they didn't understand the principles of aerodynamics and the nature of lift. At the time, many scientists and engineers believed that the only way for an object to fly was through the action of hot air or gas, such as a balloon. Additionally, there were many failed attempts at creating heavier-than-air flying machines, which further reinforced the idea that they were impossible. It wasn't until the Wright brothers successfully flew the first powered, heavier-than-air aircraft in 1903 that people began to understand the potential of such machines."

I gather religious texts are not allowed in your discussions. For not being scientific. How about this "scientific" investigation?

The First Known Investigation into an Unidentified Flying Object​

It seems that throughout much of antiquity the UFO-like phenomena were merely recorded. The first known official investigation into a possible alien/time-traveler/UFO presence was carried out in Japan in 1235.

“One night, a high officer named General Yoritsume and his army were settling down in their camp when they spotted mysterious lights in the sky. The general and his troops watched in astonishment as these lights performed amazing aerobatic movements, such as circling endlessly and flying in loops. Baffled by the bizarre aerial display, General Yoritsume ordered a scientific investigation of what he had just witnessed…The explanation Yoritsume’s scientists gave the general oozed with comfort and calm. “The whole thing is completely natural,” Yoritsume was told about the mystery lights. “It is only the wind making the stars sway.”” (Maloney, 2011)

To quote Mac from It's Always Sunny: "Science...is a LIAR sometimes"

 

[midnightAI]

Got it. Sounded to me like you were saying it was impossible; you having the opinion it's "improbable" is a disagreement I can live with.

Maybe I should've clarified to say "heavier than air" human flight was thought to be impossible. Where did I say that everyone thought it was impossible? Obviously some people thought it was possible, some thought impossible. Here's what ChatGPT has to say on that:

"People believed that flying machines heavier than air were impossible because they didn't understand the principles of aerodynamics and the nature of lift. At the time, many scientists and engineers believed that the only way for an object to fly was through the action of hot air or gas, such as a balloon. Additionally, there were many failed attempts at creating heavier-than-air flying machines, which further reinforced the idea that they were impossible. It wasn't until the Wright brothers successfully flew the first powered, heavier-than-air aircraft in 1903 that people began to understand the potential of such machines."

I gather religious texts are not allowed in your discussions. For not being scientific. How about this "scientific" investigation?

The First Known Investigation into an Unidentified Flying Object​

It seems that throughout much of antiquity the UFO-like phenomena were merely recorded. The first known official investigation into a possible alien/time-traveler/UFO presence was carried out in Japan in 1235.



To quote Mac from It's Always Sunny: "Science...is a LIAR sometimes"

Fair enough, but dont you think its weird that some scientists thought that they believed it was only possible via hot air or gas? and yet there are birds flying around, did they believe they are full of hot air? or propelled using their farts or something? even scientists can be dumb it seems. (also, they had gliders in the late 1700's, they are still technically flying, not powered (admittedly) but certainly heavier than air)

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I've thought about this. I can't imagine seeing footage of some of humanities biggest moments. It would be so weird....

Here's a question:

If given an opportunity to see any event in human history, what would you want to see?

Good question! To my mind, you're asking: "Hey, want to answer every question you've ever had about the world we live in?" lol. I can think of a few, apologies for breaking into non-human history:

-The first instance of "language" spoken outside of grunts or whatever. How did spoken language arise?

-The worldwide flood that's reported in nearly every culture across the globe. Did it actually happen? What caused it?

-The life of Jesus of Nazareth. I was raised Christian, fell out of it, but like the anti-establishment and kind messages of the New Testament and would like to see what he was all about. Before someone jumps on my case, most (all?) of the Bible stuff that's not politically correct nowadays is in the Old Testament.

-I'd want to see a timelapse video of the progress from the first single-celled organism to homo sapien--is the Theory of Evolution accurate?

-First contact of the Europeans and indigenous Americans

-Any number of the most probable ghost sightings. Never seen one myself. Want to know what those are all about, too

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Got it. Sounded to me like you were saying it was impossible; you having the opinion it's "improbable" is a disagreement I can live with.

Maybe I should've clarified to say "heavier than air" human flight was thought to be impossible. Where did I say that everyone thought it was impossible? Obviously some people thought it was possible, some thought impossible. Here's what ChatGPT has to say on that:

"People believed that flying machines heavier than air were impossible because they didn't understand the principles of aerodynamics and the nature of lift. At the time, many scientists and engineers believed that the only way for an object to fly was through the action of hot air or gas, such as a balloon. Additionally, there were many failed attempts at creating heavier-than-air flying machines, which further reinforced the idea that they were impossible. It wasn't until the Wright brothers successfully flew the first powered, heavier-than-air aircraft in 1903 that people began to understand the potential of such machines."

I gather religious texts are not allowed in your discussions. For not being scientific. How about this "scientific" investigation?

The First Known Investigation into an Unidentified Flying Object​

It seems that throughout much of antiquity the UFO-like phenomena were merely recorded. The first known official investigation into a possible alien/time-traveler/UFO presence was carried out in Japan in 1235.



To quote Mac from It's Always Sunny: "Science...is a LIAR sometimes"

When people in the science community dedicated much of their life to certain ideas and those ideas get challenged then their life's work is being challenged so they get super defensive.

They want to be taken seriously and anything that seems outside the norm they fight too hard to keep it out of discussion. Problem is so many major discoveries have happened by someone breaking away from the mold.

Those people hurt science because they are resistant to things being different than what they currently believe but what is currently believed can change frequently with new info.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Fair enough, but dont you think its weird that some scientists thought that they believed it was only possible via hot air or gas? and yet there are birds flying around, did they believe they are full of hot air? or propelled using their farts or something? even scientists can be dumb it seems. (also, they had gliders in the late 1700's, they are still technically flying, not powered (admittedly) but certainly heavier than air)

Lol, maybe. And yes, I think the seeming disregard of bird-flight is weird. To my mind, it's a lot like how people now are saying theories about what these modern UAPs & and the entities that created them can do are impossible.

 

[FunkMiller]

Lol, maybe. And yes, I think the seeming disregard of bird-flight is weird. To my mind, it's a lot like how people now are saying theories about what these modern UAPs & and the entities that created them can do are impossible.

Improbable, not impossible. Incredibly improbable.

To the point where earthbound explanations are millions of times more likely to be true.

Also, just because scientists back then didn't understand how the Bernoulli principle worked, it doesn't follow that scientists now are similarly dense when it comes to the way the universe functions. If they didn't have an extremely good grip on gravity for instance, they wouldn't have been able to send all seven tonnes of JWST to a stable, safe, non-decaying and regular orbit, a million miles away from planet Earth.

 

[FunkMiller]

Goddamn it can people please stop spamming with dumb arguments that have been discussed for ages and are absolutely not gotchas?

Just do a little bit of reading, be curious, show some imagination and respect, and think like a scientist instead of just spamming other people’s bad takes?

 

[Grildon Tundy]

When people in the science community dedicated much of their life to certain ideas and those ideas get challenged then their life's work is being challenged so they get super defensive.

They want to be taken seriously and anything that seems outside the norm they fight too hard to keep it out of discussion. Problem is so many major discoveries have happened by someone breaking away from the mold.

Those people hurt science because they are resistant to things being different than what they currently believe but what is currently believed can change frequently with new info.

100%. I've seen this defensiveness and institutional inertia first-hand in my career, with something where the stakes weren't nearly as high.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Improbable, not impossible. Incredibly improbable.

To the point where earthbound explanations are millions of times more likely to be true.

Also, just because scientists back then didn't understand how the Bernoulli principle worked, it doesn't follow that scientists now are similarly dense when it comes to the way the universe functions. If they didn't have an extremely good grip on gravity for instance, they wouldn't have been able to send all seven tonnes of JWST to a stable, safe, non-decaying and regular orbit, a million miles away from planet Earth.

Sincerely, maybe I missed it, but I can't recall you positing one of these earthbound explanations that's millions of times more likely to be true.

Edit: And I wasn't referring to you and MidnightAI when saying "impossible" that time. Referring to others. Still curious to hear other explanations.

 

[FunkMiller]

Sincerely, maybe I missed it, but I can't recall you positing one of these earthbound explanations that's millions of times more likely to be true.

Natural phenomenon, human deceit/error, technological failure/error, or a combination of one or more of those things. Less likely: top secret super special military equipment.

Incredibly, vastly, mindboggingly unlikely: aliens.

 

[FunkMiller]

When people in the science community dedicated much of their life to certain ideas and those ideas get challenged then their life's work is being challenged so they get super defensive.

They want to be taken seriously and anything that seems outside the norm they fight too hard to keep it out of discussion. Problem is so many major discoveries have happened by someone breaking away from the mold.

Those people hurt science because they are resistant to things being different than what they currently believe but what is currently believed can change frequently with new info.

This is absolutely not how the scientific community functions at all. Scientists are extremely eager to have new evidence presented to them that could change their way of thinking.

Evidence.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Natural phenomenon, human deceit/error, technological failure/error, or a combination of one or more of those things. Less likely: top secret super special military equipment.

Incredibly, vastly, mindboggingly unlikely: aliens.

They have various instruments that recorded it along with their eyes and it wasn't just a one off event. These simple explanations would make more sense if it was a one off thing that someone saw with their eyes and that's it. When they have readings from different instruments, multiple seeing it and it's happening for years off of their bases then that argument kinda falls apart.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

This is absolutely not how the scientific community functions at all. Scientists are extremely eager to have new evidence presented to them that could change their way of thinking.

Evidence.

You don't even want to hear the evidence. Someone literally asked you about that and you said it's a waste to invest time and money into this stuff lol

That's the SCIENCE community in a nut shell. Does this seem crazy? Yes? Okay then it must be false therefore no need to look into it further.

No one here including myself is saying it's absolutely aliens or something. People are just open to possibilities and want to see this play out.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Natural phenomenon, human error, technological failure/error, or a combination of one or more of those things. Less likely: top secret super special military equipment.

Incredibly, vastly, mindboggingly unlikely: aliens.

Man, I just wholly disagree with you on this at this time, or maybe I'm arguing a different point and criss-crossing with you.

Quoting myself because I like to smell my own farts:
In the scope of a universe being billions of years old, is it that far-fetched that a civilization 1,000, 2,000, or even 10,000 years more advanced than us exists? That would explain both the technological capabilities and the time it would take them to get here. Even a difference of 10,000 years out of 14,000,000,000 is a variance of less than 0.0001%.

Make that 100,000 years and you're still at less than 0.001% variance. 1,000,000 and you're at 0.01% variance, and so on. No need to explain the near speed-of-light travel at that point.

I'm open to other theories, like they've always been here/there's something interdimensional going on (which I guess could fall under "natural phenomenon"?), but I'm shocked you think that the eyewitness accounts and the tictac video are somehow human or technological errors.

 

[FunkMiller]

You don't even want to hear the evidence. Someone literally asked you about that and you said it's a waste. Lol

That's the SCIENCE community in a nut shell. Does this seem crazy? Yes? Okay then it must be false therefore no need to look into it further.

What evidence exactly? Because personal, subjective testimony ain't gonna cut it. Nor is grainy footage on a camera that confirms nothing.

Come on, boys. You can't expect anyone of a scientific or rational position to view what's been going on, set that information against the practical realities of astrophysics, and deduce that anything close to empirical evidence has been presented that tells us aliens have visited our little blue/green rock.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

What evidence exactly? Because personal, subjective testimony ain't gonna cut it. Nor is grainy footage on a camera that confirms nothing.

Is it over? Did the investigation end and determine they are full of shit? Are you in Congress and have access to the information he presented the intelligence committee and the inspector general? Apparently discussions that lasted 11 hours.

This is what's wrong with the 'science community'.

There's no desire to really look into something they think is ridiculous. It's not about evidence. It's " I don't believe it based on my current established science therefore anyone looking into this is crazy and wasting their time."

Eric Weinstein on why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not a Great Physicist #joerogan #jre #shorts

🎙️ Welcome to MicrodosingOfWisdom, your one-stop destination for the most thought-provoking and engaging conversations from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast...

youtube.com

 

[FunkMiller]

Quoting myself because I like to smell my own farts:
In the scope of a universe being billions of years old, is it that far-fetched that a civilization 1,000, 2,000, or even 10,000 years more advanced than us exists? That would explain both the technological capabilities and the time it would take them to get here. Even a difference of 10,000 years out of 14,000,000,000 is a variance of less than 0.0001%.

Make that 100,000 years and you're still at less than 0.001% variance. 1,000,000 and you're at 0.01% variance, and so on. No need to explain the near speed-of-light travel at that point.

I don't think quite conceiving of the actual size of the universe here. Quite possible there are extremely advanced civilisations out there somewhere... but they'll never see us. Not with a poxy little 130 light years of radio waves being the absolute only thing any of them could detect. And even then they'd have to be looking directly at us.

James Webb deep field:

Thousands upon thousands of galaxies in a patch of space the same size as a grain of sand.

 

[FunkMiller]

Is it over? Did the investigation end and determine they are full of shit? Are you in Congress and have access to the information he presented the intelligence committee and the inspector general? Apparently discussions that lasted 11 hours.

This is what's wrong with the 'science community'.

There's no desire to really look into something they think is ridiculous. It's not about evidence. It's " I don't believe it based on my current established science therefore anyone looking into this is crazy and wasting their time."

Eric Weinstein on why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not a Great Physicist #joerogan #jre #shorts

🎙️ Welcome to MicrodosingOfWisdom, your one-stop destination for the most thought-provoking and engaging conversations from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast...

youtube.com

I mean, you can keep screaming about evidence all you want, but there hasn't actually been any.

And why are you posting Weinstein? He's been roundly criticised by the likes of Tim Nyugen for his terrible research.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

I don't think quite conceiving of the actual size of the universe here. Quite possible there are extremely advanced civilisations out there somewhere... but they'll never see us. Not with a poxy little 130 light years of radio waves being the absolute only thing any of them could detect. And even then they'd have to be looking directly at us.

James Webb deep field:

Thousands upon thousands of galaxies in a patch of space the same size as a grain of rice.

Your unwillingness to be open to possibilities is frustrating. Have you ever thought that maybe we are in this very spot BECAUSE of an alien species? The possibilities are endless and I don't ascribe to any particular one or even believe any of it but to be so locked in on one idea as a reason it can't be possible is just strange to me.

 

[FunkMiller]

Your unwillingness to be open to possibilities is frustrating. Have you ever thought that maybe we are in this very spot BECAUSE of an alien species? The possibilities are endless and I don't ascribe to any particular one or even believe any of it but to be so locked in on one idea as a reason it can't be possible is just strange to me.

Oh, I am absolutely open to the concept of alien civilisations existing. In fact, I'm dead sure they exist, because probability demands it, in an infinite universe.

But have they visited earth? Nope. No evidence to suggest they have, and the realities of space dictate that the chances are vanishingly small.

Sorry, but I trade in reality on these things, not in fantasy. Look at that picture of the James Webb deep field again.

I'd love it if aliens would fucking visit us, because it'd change the human race for the better. But it hasn't happened, unfortunately, and very, very probably never will.

 

[Romulus]

I don't think quite conceiving of the actual size of the universe here. Quite possible there are extremely advanced civilisations out there somewhere... but they'll never see us. Not with a poxy little 130 light years of radio waves being the absolute only thing any of them could detect. And even then they'd have to be looking directly at us.

James Webb deep field:

Thousands upon thousands of galaxies in a patch of space the same size as a grain of rice.

I have no idea how you can continue to parallel "advanced civilizations" with us. You continue to forecast their abilities in a very human way without perspective that they may be far more advanced with technology that is very different.
.

We can detect campfires from primitive tribes with a satellite, but if you were from that tribe, you wouldn't believe it's possible.

You would have never believed from your hut that others could see you with a satellite because the chieftain never told you said methods or technologies existed. So, must be impossible.

Again, that's an extremely short time frame from primitive humans to satellites. We could be looking at civilizations hundreds of times the disparity of that.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Oh, I am absolutely open to the concept of alien civilisations existing. In fact, I'm dead sure they exist, because probability demands it, in an infinite universe.

But have they visited earth? Nope. No evidence to suggest they have, and the realities of space dictate that the chances are vanishingly small.

Sorry, but I trade in reality on these things, not in fantasy. Look at that picture of the James Webb deep field again.

I'd love it if aliens would fucking visit us, because it'd change the human race for the better. But it hasn't happened, unfortunately, and very, very probably never will.

I quoted Weinstein because of your exact post. There's an element to science where people don't deviate from what is established because it doesn't come across as "good science". Yet a lot of times throughout history established science was dismantled by someone who looked like a quack with a different idea. That was his point. Trying to shout down good points because you think someone isn't up to the cred of other scientists you like is ridiculous.

Also claiming there isn't evidence just because you aren't privy to it is also ridiculous. That's why everyone is here to begin with. It's an unfolding investigation into what is going on. No one well except for you is acting like they know the answer already.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I don't think quite conceiving of the actual size of the universe here. Quite possible there are extremely advanced civilisations out there somewhere... but they'll never see us. Not with a poxy little 130 light years of radio waves being the absolute only thing any of them could detect. And even then they'd have to be looking directly at us.

James Webb deep field:

Thousands upon thousand of galaxies in a patch of space the same size as a grain of rice.

I understand the universe is real, real big. Like bigger than the Grand Slam breakfast platter at Denny's. I don't think you're taking into account the possibility of exponential technological advancement that could aid another civilization in exploring that immense universe.

Please understand that as I understand it, you and I are seem to be debating degrees of probability here, and that you seem more of an "evidence first" kind of guy, whereas I'm having a lot of fun thinking through the possibilities.

Given that the evidence presented thus far doesn't seem to be increasing your willingness to add more probability to this one particular visited-by-an-off-world-civilization theory, what evidence would it take to change your mind?

 

[MilkyJoe]

I told you so 🛸 Bob Lazar. We are not alone

On set 🎥🎬 with #BobLazar in Montreal Project Gravitaur

youtube.com

 

[FunkMiller]

I have no idea how you can continue to parallel "advanced civilizations" with us. You continue to forecast their abilities in a very human way with perspective that they may be far more advanced.

We can detect campfires from primitive tribes with a satellite, but if you were from that tribe, you'd wouldn't believe it's not possible.

You would have ever believed from your hut that others could see you with a satellite because the chieftain never told you said methods or technologies existed. So, must be impossible.

Fallacy.

Comparing the knowledge base we have now to caveman, or scientists from a hundred years ago, is pure fallacy.

None of this is 'human'.

Hydrogen fuses into helium. Mass dictates the amount of gravity a body can create. The speed of light is constant and unbreakable in a vacuum.

If these rules were not there, you wouldn't be able to exist to challenge them.

That James Webb photo should at least give you some idea of how vast the universe is, and how improbable it is that an alien civilisation would even know we were here, let alone come and a have a visit - without actually doing anything other than appearing on a few radar screens and buzzing some air force pilots.

 

[FunkMiller]

Please understand that as I understand it, you and I are seem to be debating degrees of probability here, and that you seem more of an "evidence first" kind of guy, whereas I'm having a lot of fun thinking through the possibilities.

Oh, I like to dream of possibilities as much as the next man. The only reason I started to look closely into astrophysics is because I love the idea of things like warp drive, alien contact and wormholes.

Unfortunately, when I did that, the scientific realities of the whole thing started to hit me

As for what evidence would convince me of alien contact: probably clear, easily identifiable video footage, verified by multiple, independent sources. The same way any science works really. Has to be verified by enough independent sources though. Seeing something with my own eyes - as long as I wasn't alone, and again had enough people to independently verify what I'd seen (the human brain plays tricks all the time on us). But, as I say, I think if we ever were visited, we'd all know about it!

 

[Romulus]

Fallacy.

Comparing the knowledge base we have now to caveman, or scientists from a hundred years ago, is pure fallacy.

None of this is 'human'.

Hydrogen fuses into helium. Mass dictates the amount of gravity a body can create. The speed of light is constant and unbreakable in a vacuum.

If these rules were not there, you wouldn't be able to exist to challenge them.

That James Webb photo should at least give you some idea of how vast the universe is, and how improbable it is that an alien civilisation would even know we were here, let alone come and a have a visit - without actually doing anything other than appearing on a few radar screens and buzzing some air force pilots.

Omg dude, now I think you're intentionally avoiding the analogy. I never once said or intended to say primitive humans are the same as modern. Jesus dude, that's not the comparison.

If you're not intentionally overlooking the analogy, then a lot more things are starting to make sense.

 

[FunkMiller]

Omg dude, now I think you're intentionally avoiding the analogy. I never once said or intended to say primitive humans are the same as modern. Jesus dude.

You brought up cavemen, not me! And if you're point is that aliens could have better technology than us to see us with, I'd still counter with how infinitesimally small our footprint on the universe is. They'd never see us!

 

[FunkMiller]

Sorry lads, gotta bug out. Going out to report to my alien overlords about how the invasion plans are going with the missus into town.

 

[Crayon]

FunkMiller You don't seem to care what is really going on as long as it's not aliens!

 

[MMaRsu]

UFO accounts are journalists' stuff of dreams

The late Ben Robert Rich was the second director of Lockheed Corp.'s top-secret research and development unit known as the "Skunk Works." Founder and first director of that program was aeronautical e…

eu.columbiatribune.com

In May 2010, aerospace engineer Tom Keller wrote an article for the Mutual UFO Network's journal that said Ben Rich revealed that extraterrestrial UFO visitors are real and that the U.S. military has aircraft capable of travel to the stars. Keller, who worked as a computer systems analyst for NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, quoted Rich as saying the following:

• "Inside the Skunk Works, we were a small, intensively cohesive group consisting of about fifty veteran engineers and designers, and a hundred or so expert machinists and shop workers. Our forte was building technologically advanced airplanes of small number and of high class for highly secret missions."
• "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects, and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do it."
• "We now have technology to take ET home. No it won't take someone's lifetime to do it. There is an error in the equations. We know what it is. We now have the capability to travel to the stars. First, you have to understand that we will not get to the stars using chemical propulsion. Second, we have to devise a new propulsion technology. What we have to do is find out where Einstein went wrong."
• "When Rich was asked how UFO propulsion worked, he said, 'Let me ask you. How does ESP work?' The questioner responded with 'All points in time and space are connected?' Rich then said, 'That's how it works!' "

 

[SF Kosmo]

This is absolutely not how the scientific community functions at all. Scientists are extremely eager to have new evidence presented to them that could change their way of thinking.

Evidence.

The only way we get that evidence is by being open minded and taking these claims seriously, and actively fighting to break down the needed roadblocks to get this stuff declassified or to get the specifics needed to foia that which which isn't classified.

It's super clear you didn't actually watch these hearings and don't know what they're about. Grush made it clear there is documentary evidence for much of this and that he could provide it in a closed session to people with the appropriate clearances.

However the Pentagon is attempting to stonewall that effort and denying Congressmen a SCIF (which by itself would suggest there is something there they want to obfuscate). So they're trying to get McCarthy to form a Select Committee with subpoena power to get past these roadblocks.

Just dismissing this out of hand out of a generic skepticism is foolish. We owe it to ourselves to take it seriously and follow up.

 

[Romulus]

You brought up cavemen, not me! And if you're point is that aliens could have better technology than us to see us with, I'd still counter with how infinitesimally small our footprint on the universe is. They'd never see us!

You're still thinking about things in a very human-current technology way. Humans can't travel at near light speed, and neither can anyone else, ever. Humans can't detect small footprints, neither can anyone else, ever.

 

[Romulus]

I'm reminded of a story of my great-great uncle. He was a professor in the late 1940s and fought in WW2 previously. After that, he went back home and continued farming. For the time, he was incredibly forward-thinking and used equipment and methods that other farmers scoffed at nearing "science fiction." It ended up working out for him and he was one of the more successful farmers in that area. His grandkids are still living off his forward-thinking.

He lived to see the moon landing and thought it was a hoax.

My point is, I think people that have been alive for several decades or more are going to have a difficult time swallowing anything that threatens their version of reality. Some of these people are forward-thinking, but will hide indefinitely behind "evidence." Not saying this is bad or wrong, but essentially "evidence" in this case will be some guy you don't know telling you what to believe. "Yep, the DNA sequence of this corpse is most definitely nonhuman. Confirmed, we are not alone."

Whoever says those words, true or not, will be critiqued to the end of the world and back. I think the people screaming "Where's the evidence" will just scream something else. "I need to see the body myself! CIA hoax, he's a left/right wing bigot, etc" anything to align with the thought process already in their minds. I think it will take years of the scientific community to agree on this before it's seen as fact and most of us skeptics/believers will die off in that time. Maybe our grandkids will get a fresh grasp on this the same way most of us grew up knowing the moon landing was real.

 

[RaduN]

I heard all this exact same shit 100 times before. I'll be the first to put up the "take me with you" sign, but first show me the fucking evidence or shut the fuck up.
If i hear one more so called eye witness testimony full of dubious individuals and see one more blurry fucking potato pic, so help me Zod!!!!

 

[AcrosstheSea]

I heard all this exact same shit 100 times before. I'll be the first to put up the "take me with you" sign, but first show me the fucking evidence or shut the fuck up.
If i hear one more so called eye witness testimony full of dubious individuals and see one more blurry fucking potato pic, so help me Zod!!!!

It's gonna be okay buddy lol. I'm with you though. It'll be nice to see some first hand witnesses and proper evidence. No down sampled pics or anything...give us some legit stuff to see.

 

[Tygeezy]

Omg dude, now I think you're intentionally avoiding the analogy. I never once said or intended to say primitive humans are the same as modern. Jesus dude, that's not the comparison.

If you're not intentionally overlooking the analogy, then a lot more things are starting to make sense.

He’s routinely displayed intellectual dishonesty. If a source says something he doesn’t like his first thought is to attack their character rather than their argument.

He even finally admitted he’s not interested in a continued investigation on this topic which is so scientific! Yeah, we have all the data we need said science!

 

[SF Kosmo]

Incredibly, vastly, mindboggingly unlikely: aliens.

How does one evaluate this likelihood exactly? The chances could range from impossible to inevitable and we wouldn't really have any way of knowing because it's just beyond our current capabilities to really evaluate.

 

[SF Kosmo]

What evidence exactly?

I believe THE EXACT LOCATION OF INTACT CRAFT was one of the pieces of evidence on offer, dude. Are you really saying no one should follow up on this?

It's baffling that your mind is so closed that you don't even feel the need to investigate.

 

[Liljagare]

Knew it.

Its about a upcoming book deal.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

How does one evaluate this likelihood exactly? The chances could range from impossible to inevitable and we wouldn't really have any way of knowing because it's just beyond our current capabilities to really evaluate.

Check this out: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/expl...arth-originating-from-another-planet.1659281/

 

[Romulus]

Knew it.

Its about a upcoming book deal.

For who? Everyone?

 

[G-Bus]

At the very least this should give insight into the gross misappropriation of funding the DoD gets

It was odd to hear congress and one of the whistleblowers make jokes about the Pentagon never passing an audit and routinely cant account for billions of dollars. They laughed about it!

Aliens or not... This should be the biggest deal coming out of all of this.

 

[Romulus]

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Knew it.

Its about a upcoming book deal.

But for real, context?

 

[midnightAI]

Man, I just wholly disagree with you on this at this time, or maybe I'm arguing a different point and criss-crossing with you.

Quoting myself because I like to smell my own farts:
In the scope of a universe being billions of years old, is it that far-fetched that a civilization 1,000, 2,000, or even 10,000 years more advanced than us exists? That would explain both the technological capabilities and the time it would take them to get here. Even a difference of 10,000 years out of 14,000,000,000 is a variance of less than 0.0001%.

Make that 100,000 years and you're still at less than 0.001% variance. 1,000,000 and you're at 0.01% variance, and so on. No need to explain the near speed-of-light travel at that point.

I'm open to other theories, like they've always been here/there's something interdimensional going on (which I guess could fall under "natural phenomenon"?), but I'm shocked you think that the eyewitness accounts and the tictac video are somehow human or technological errors.

To counter, is it that far fetched that out of the billions of planets that do support life that we may be the only ones with intelligent life? Or that even if there is intelligent life out there that we are by far the most technologically advanced? (At least in our own galaxy)

Also, something that has always bother d me... do you really think your government (I'm from the UK) is that competent that they could keep this a secret for so.long? Especially when governments could (mis)use this for their own political gains during times of crisis or conflict? (We couldn't even keep a party during lockdown a secret)

and that's not even including military and scientific personnel, contractors, intelligence agencies, space agencies and many others who will have knowledge of this and no-one has said anything until now? Not even ones who are on their death bed knowing no repercussions? And this is supposedly all over the world so ALL these countries and persons and nothing? (Other than 'I've heard from sources' type chatter)

It just all seems a little unbelievable that the governments globally could keep a secret so huge, this isn't one or two people within an organisation who know the truth, there would literally have to be hundreds if not thousands of people in on it.

 

[Bartski]

been looking into some of the local coverage of the event. Either nobody even listened to the hearing or it's all being deliberately misrepresented? Weird.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Reading this thread gives me a lot of hope. A lot more people are open to listening and finding out more. Not automatically dismissing everything as an impossibility. It's okay to be skeptical but being so skeptical that you just outright shutdown exploring possibilities? Not good for science.

Bartski
The Kirkpatrick response was truly bizarre. He was outright wrong about some details and trying to discredit the whistleblower. Really.....odd.