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AMD Launches Mantle in Beta – Apparently its for Low End CPUs not GPUs!

KojiKnight said:
These numbers are actually pretty encouraging for me... It's just a shame that the 7k series got shafted to get the beta out... I really hope AMD keeps their word and gets 7k's up to equivalent performance or I'll be pretty sad.
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The AMD drivers are beta and they support all GCN cards. Battlefields patch doesn't support the 7k series.

This distinction had been posted several times now.


Thacker said:
Mantle is not vendor specific, it just requires a minimum hardware feature level.
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Yup.


Q: Is Mantle a proprietary AMD technology?

A: Mantle was conceived and developed by AMD in partnership with leading game developers.
This enabled the fast and agile development required to validate the concepts and bring such the technology to life in a relatively short period of time. However, Mantle was designed in a way that makes it applicable to a range of modern GPU architectures. In the months ahead, we will be inviting more partners to participate in the development program, leading up to a public release of the specifications later in 2014. Our intention is for Mantle, or something that looks very much like it, to eventually become an industry standard applicable to multiple graphics architectures and platforms.
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I really don't see where are the FUD about this taking off stems from. It existing as an option for high control development is inconsequential.
 
the low end cpu gains are certainly impressive but with the switch to 4k looming for many pc gamers i don't really see where mantle fits in with them, the gains at max settings and that resolution seem negligible at best
 
bee said:
the low end cpu gains are certainly impressive but with the switch to 4k looming for many pc gamers i don't really see where mantle fits in with them, the gains at max settings and that resolution seem negligible at best
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It's benefit is huge.. how can you not see it? GPU speed is far outpacing CPU speed... and should be for the next few years. We will continue to see stronger and stronger GPU's... but without CPU's to really push them. Anything that frees up CPU cycles for more draw calls etc is HUGE. Even at the high end of the resolution spectrum.
 
That's funny, I thought that vendor specific meant that the technology was available from a single vendor.

Oh, it is.

It may not be proprietary, but at present, it is obviously supported by only a single vendor and this is unlikely to change any time in the near future.
 
Leb said:
That's funny, I thought that vendor specific meant that the technology was available from a single vendor.

Oh, it is.

It may not be proprietary, but at present, it is obviously supported by only a single vendor and this is unlikely to change any time in the near future.
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No, It's an open API that other vendors haven't chosen to adopt yet.

So much Nvidia salt.
 
bee said:
the low end cpu gains are certainly impressive but with the switch to 4k looming for many pc gamers i don't really see where mantle fits in with them, the gains at max settings and that resolution seem negligible at best
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Guy, the amount of people running 4k displays is going to be so small for years because most people don't give a shit about that resolution, and most people don't want to spend that kind of money on a GPU just to play a game.
 
iamshadowlark said:
A: Mantle was conceived and developed by AMD in partnership with leading game developers.
This enabled the fast and agile development required to validate the concepts and bring such the technology to life in a relatively short period of time. However, Mantle was designed in a way that makes it applicable to a range of modern GPU architectures. In the months ahead, we will be inviting more partners to participate in the development program, leading up to a public release of the specifications later in 2014. Our intention is for Mantle, or something that looks very much like it, to eventually become an industry standard applicable to multiple graphics architectures and platforms
Click to expand...

Where is this interview? Would love to read it.
 
For Mantle to become open, it need to be administrated by an independent entity
Mantle is no more open than Physx at the moment
 
bee said:
the low end cpu gains are certainly impressive but with the switch to 4k looming for many pc gamers i don't really see where mantle fits in with them, the gains at max settings and that resolution seem negligible at best
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PC gamers won't switch to 4k for at least 2 or 3 years, and that's optimistic. People who go 4k don't do it for games, but for extra pixels for work.
 
I don't really understand all the pessimistic shit talking regarding mantle.
This is a good thing. For everyone. Period.
 
KojiKnight said:
You stand to gain more than most.... when the drivers/programs support mantle in the 7k series.
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lebowski1.gif
 
OminoMichelin said:
PC gamers won't switch to 4k for at least 2 or 3 years, and that's optimistic. People who go 4k don't do it for games, but for extra pixels for work.
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People are doing it now. The thing about PC is there's no reason to wait for a "standard," people run at higher frame rates and resolutions as hardware improves.

That why we have SLI Titans. It's a niche, flagship setup that's advertising for that company. AMD does the same thing.
 
What exactly does Mantle offer that OpenGL doesn't? If it's not vendor specific, why are AMD pushing it instead of OpenGL (possibly with particular extensions)?
 
godelsmetric said:
What exactly does Mantle offer that OpenGL doesn't? If it's not vendor specific, why are AMD pushing it instead of OpenGL (possibly with particular extensions)?
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Seems like they're pulling a 3DFX. They guess if the gains are big enough, they can pull market share despite using a closed platform.
 
godelsmetric said:
What exactly does Mantle offer that OpenGL doesn't? If it's not vendor specific, why are AMD pushing it instead of OpenGL (possibly with particular extensions)?
Click to expand...

The simplest answer is also the most obvious one... Because it's advertising for AMD. It's the same thing with TressFX, it works on all platforms (though nvidia will have to put effort into it if they want to adopt it) but because it's a standard AMD created, they will have first dibs on it's most optimized use.

Dr.Acula said:
Seems like they're pulling a 3DFX. They guess if the gains are big enough, they can pull market share despite using a closed platform.
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The two are not similar. 3DFX, as you note, is a fully closed platform. While mantle will be a free API like OpenCL/MP.
 
Dr.Acula said:
Whoops, must have missed that.

Wait, can I get mantle on my intel/nVidia box then?
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Eventually. The standard isn't "finished" and thus is not published yet (which is why most developers don't have access to even make their games Mantle compatible yet). But the plan is later this year to have it completed and the spec available to all interested parties.

(edit) BF4 and the other games out are more proof of concepts than anything at this point. Which is why the drivers are beta and just now about to be released, etc.
 
dr_rus said:
Because it is vendor specific. AMD saying otherwise is FUD at its best.
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Currently it is, yes. There is no doubt that AMD wants to have the most control over it and why shouldn't they? At least unlike Nvidia, their technology won't be completely walled off and thus "You have to buy nvidia or you get nothing from X effect."

I'm not saying it's perfect because it's not. In a perfect world everyone would use OpenGL and driver support for it would be perfect amongst all vendors (currently it's not even close, and often times even worse in Linux) because those are all completely open standards... but open standards don't work as marketing tools... At least in this case Mantle IS effective.
 
AJLma said:
They cranked up the AA just to make a point. BF4 was running at an average of 120FPS, on Ultra settings, with 4X MSAA. That's pretty damn impressive. If they turned off the AA they could probably hit that mark at 1440p as well.
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Probably.

I don't understand why 1080p is oh so bad. Lots of people in the PC gaming community decry it. I think it's kind of silly.
 
Diablos said:
Probably.

I don't understand why 1080p is oh so bad. Lots of people in the PC gaming community decry it. I think it's kind of silly.
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That's simple, the PC gaming community is bigger is better. If you don't have a 4k display, you're still expected to downscale from it.

There are some people who are extreme into FPS with 120 displays as well... So 1080p at nearly 120fps over 70 seems a pretty huge thing to them I'm sure.
 
KojiKnight said:
That's simple, the PC gaming community is bigger is better. If you don't have a 4k display, you're still expected to downscale from it.

There are some people who are extreme into FPS with 120 displays as well... So 1080p at nearly 120fps over 70 seems a pretty huge thing to them I'm sure.
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8K or you might as well hook up your old CRT and play games at 640x480!
 
Ugh. I was looking forward to this with BF4 but saw it won't be up for 7k cards yet. Blehhhh. I'd love to see Mantle used for FFXIV though.
 
bee said:
the low end cpu gains are certainly impressive but with the switch to 4k looming for many pc gamers i don't really see where mantle fits in with them, the gains at max settings and that resolution seem negligible at best
Click to expand...
I thiught there was a significant gain on mGPU bench there as well, even if it's not as big even a 20% gain for 4K would be of big help and the best thing is the frame-pacing fix.

godelsmetric said:
What exactly does Mantle offer that OpenGL doesn't? If it's not vendor specific, why are AMD pushing it instead of OpenGL (possibly with particular extensions)?
Click to expand...
Lower abstraction.

AMD is pushing it because of their obvious leverage being in both consoles. And the other simple fact that their struggling CPU's also get a big benefit out of it.

I'm really surprised to why it isn't obvious to more people.
 
godelsmetric said:
What exactly does Mantle offer that OpenGL doesn't? If it's not vendor specific, why are AMD pushing it instead of OpenGL (possibly with particular extensions)?
Click to expand...

Mantel is probably notably more similar to the graphics API's in the new consoles making mantel development not as expensive and "one off" as the development in OpenGL would be. They're hoping to leverage that to make mantel more popular than OpenGL extensions would have been. Also, this way they get the added bonus of getting a development and PR hit in on Nvidia while seemingly taking the high rode.
 
godelsmetric said:
What exactly does Mantle offer that OpenGL doesn't? If it's not vendor specific, why are AMD pushing it instead of OpenGL (possibly with particular extensions)?
Click to expand...

IIRC The two main things are that Mantle is designed to be multithreaded while OpenGL (and DX11) will usually get worse performance if you use multiple threads for rendering. And second Mantle gives devs direct control over GPU compute ques and memory.
 
so my phenom ii x4 955 just came alive again :D

Also some fears can be put to rest, I'm running on 7950 + x4 955 @3.8ghz....everything on high @1080p with 150% resolution scale.....No AA

tried Flood Zone 64 players, was keeping near perfect 60fps with only drops 57fps....if things are gonna get better for GCN 1.0 cards then I'd be delighted because performance is better right now on Beta drivers by a mile for me.
 
Star Swarm, Follow, Extreme 6 Minutes, 1920x1080

DirectX
Total Frames: 6654

Average FPS: 18.48
Average Unit Count: 3949
Maximum Unit Count: 5579
Average Batches/MS: 274.75
Maximum Batches/MS: 613.65
Average Batch Count: 17490
Maximum Batch Count: 130063
Click to expand...

Mantle
Total Frames: 11612

Average FPS: 32.25
Average Unit Count: 4224
Maximum Unit Count: 5530
Average Batches/MS: 583.47
Maximum Batches/MS: 1365.67
Average Batch Count: 22273
Maximum Batch Count: 130100
Click to expand...

Mhh, not bad. I guess :D
 
also BF4 able to use more threads under Mantle it seems., On DX I can only use 2 of the 4 threads, but Mantle is using 3.
 
Contra11 said:
Is it true that Mantle wont work unless you have DirectX ?
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I don't know if that's true, but given that Mantle is a replacement for Direct3D which is only a subset of DirectX, I could see that being true since the developer would probably want to re-use the rest of their DirectX stuff alongside Mantle.
 
Zarx said:
IIRC The two main things are that Mantle is designed to be multithreaded while OpenGL (and DX11) will usually get worse performance if you use multiple threads for rendering. And second Mantle gives devs direct control over GPU compute ques and memory.
Click to expand...

The first part isn't really true. AMD doesn't properly support DX11 Command Lists so performance suffers with multi-threaded rendering under DirectX. AMD and Nvidia cards that support OpenGL 4.3 and above have access to a command called arb_multi_draw_indirect which results in performance gains just as large as mantle.
 
mugurumakensei said:
The first part isn't really true. AMD doesn't properly support DX11 Command Lists so performance suffers with multi-threaded rendering under DirectX. AMD and Nvidia cards that support OpenGL 4.3 and above have access to a command called arb_multi_draw_indirect which results in performance gains just as large as mantle.
Click to expand...

This is wrong.
 
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