If 2080 were Nvidia’s flagship product and it released 2 full years after AMD released a similar-performing product, at the same price, we would be bashing it exactly the same as we are bashing Radeon VII now.Funny that the example you are championing its a last last gen game (ps360)
When games developed exclusively for next gen happen, 8GB wont be enough
You know which card isnt that much more powerful than 1080 ti either? the rtx 2080
Funny how some people are using this to diss VII when the RTX 2080 is the exact same... They are both in the same ballpark similarly priced
This is just Vega on a new process, old ass arch with a hard CU limit, when Navi hits then you can judge amdAMD needs 7 nm to match Nvidia's 16 nm and they are so proud of it they put the 7 in the name. Okay.
But this is not AMDs answer, VII is a repurposed workstation card and their practice run at 7nmIf 2080 were Nvidia’s flagship product and it released 2 full years after AMD released a similar-performing product, at the same price, we would be bashing it exactly the same as we are bashing Radeon VII now.
And the only reason why Nvidia can charge $700 for the 2080 is because they have no real competition in that market segment. Sadly Radeon VII doesn’t change much in that regard.
Market didn't buy AMD's products even when they were superior all around. Money for R&D need to come from somewhere, it's amazing AMD managed to roll out Zen.2 full years after AMD released a similar-performing product
No.This is the best they can do with their 7nm process?
Radeon Instinct.Why on earth did they put 16GB in?
570 is simply awesome, Vega 56 is not bad either, 64/7 are mediocre, but certainly far from "can't compete".they simply can't compete
Are you suggesting that they intentionally released a half assed product then? It's the best they can do now. Of course it will improve but we're talking about now. Not later this year or next year. For 7nm this is awful.No.
Radeon Instinct.
570 is simply awesome, Vega 56 is not bad either, 64/7 are mediocre, but certainly far from "can't compete".
And that not factoring in adaptive sync, after nvidia admitting defeat
I seriously doubt that. Maybe you'll think all the following is unrelated, but look at the sentiment regarding DLSS right now, and compare it with the sentiment of Async compute back then... Even though both for their time have similar amount of support, DLSS is touted as something great, and even a reason to get nVidia, while back then, Async compute was touted as a useless feature and not a reason to get AMD...If 2080 were Nvidia’s flagship product and it released 2 full years after AMD released a similar-performing product, at the same price, we would be bashing it exactly the same as we are bashing Radeon VII now.
I seriously doubt that. Maybe you'll think all the following is unrelated, but look at the sentiment regarding DLSS right now, and compare it with the sentiment of Async compute back then... Even though both for their time have similar amount of support, DLSS is touted as something great, and even a reason to get nVidia, while back then, Async compute was touted as a useless feature and not a reason to get AMD...
Look at the GTX 970's 3.5GB vs the RX 480 PCI-E power consumption issue. The GTX 970 3.5GB was a deliberate deception that had no fix, while the RX 480 PCI-E power consumption was a driver error/bug that was fixed in less than a week and blown way out of proportion. The GTX 970 is still seen as a great card, while the RX 480 is seen as an 'ok' card. Not to mention that the R9 390 being practically superior to the GTX 970 in every possible way except power consumption, people get the GTX 970 anyway, because higher power consumption is apparently worse than purposefully deceiving your customers. Except when it was the HD 5870 vs the GTX 480. Then all the importance regarding power consumption and heat goes out the window.
nVidia promised working and improved Async compute drivers for Maxwell ages ago. No one cares that it was never implemented and swept under the rug. Yet everyone that knows about Vega's stream binning rasterizer is complaining about it never being implemented.
The point is that AMD is judged a lot harsher than nVidia on all fronts, and nVidia is barely criticized, and if they are, it's not for long.
Yes! this is Vega refresh at 7nm, its impressive for what it isare you suggesting that they intentionally released a half assed product then?
Why is that?but this isn't really competition for the 2080
OK i take it back...maybe they can compete at the low end but this isn't really competition for the 2080.
Well then, in that case it's actually insanely good deal590 comes with 3 games. With 580 you can choose 2 out of 3.
Vega, being high end, will definitely come with all 3.
So much truthDude, yes it is. The performance is on par with a 2080, so yes the Vega 2 is competing with it. You can't say it's competition is a 1080 Ti (or even 1080) when those cards are no longer available. Yes, the 2080 can do ray tracing, but that feature is still in it's infancy and will drastically impact game performance to the point that almost nobody will use it.
Oh boy. I hope that really nobody expects for amd to suddenly release an APU that is as powerful as this power hungry vega refresh that is already on 7nm process.........
What this card clearly shows us that you can't expect next gen consoles [both ps5 and xbox] to be as powerful as a top card from 2017. I predicted 1080 performance for next gen - it seems that I might be totally on point.
I'd say this hits the nail on the head as far as what is reasonable to expect. What does give me hope that the 4K/60 fps can happen on next gen consoles is the fact that the CPU will be that much more powerful. I'd be pretty happy with 1440p with solid AA and 60 fps.I'd say that sounds about right, given that we know that:
1) Navi will probably be mid range and similar to a 1080 in terms of raw performance
2) The PS5 is strongly rumoured to use Navi
I always thought people were a bit optimistic expecting 1080ti/2080 performance for next gen consoles and VERY optimistic to expect native 4k/60 as a standard.
I predict it will be 4k/30 as standard, with 4k/60 for fighting games, racers, some sports Sims and UHD remasters of current gen games. A few games may offer a performance mode (probably 1440p/60).
For sure...….It looks like basically 7nm Vega instinct, which had those 16Gb:
with 4 out of 64 CUs disabled (probably faulty).
AdoredTV mentioned AMD having a pile of about 60k of those cards.
Yes, that is confirmed...You get The Division, Dmc5, RE2...I suspect these games will run better on AMD hardware too......And these are some of the best looking and anticipated multiplat games this year...With more Vulkan and DX12 games to come this year as well.....No longer bogged down by DX11, it was about time.....I think Vega 7 will bench very nicely for the year and above RTX 2080FE at that...590 comes with 3 games. With 580 you can choose 2 out of 3.
Vega, being high end, will definitely come with all 3.
Don't post this. Remember, it's competing with the 1080 Ti and showing it being compared to the 2080 is not accurate and simply not fair to those with an agenda.Supposedly it beats a GTX 2080 in Battlefield V @1440p Ultra settings (Direct X 11)
A good looking card, with twice as much memory as competition, coming with 3 games that is said to be rather silent is In no way "half assed".Are you suggesting that they intentionally released a half assed product then?
Depends what you mean by "can do now".It's the best they can do now.
They've just presented a card that trades blows with 2080, which by no means is low end....maybe they can compete at the low end
There doesn't have to be a card to compete against 2080Ti....where is their card to compete against the 2080 Ti?
So people really can't comprehend the fact that this is just Vega with a die shrink.
If anything this is a showcase for 7nm.
Die size comparison:
Vega VII: 331mm^2
RTX 2070: 445mm^2
RTX 2080: 545mm^2
So while Vega architecture might not be the best you are getting near 2080 performance(assuming early numbers are anything to go by) in a smaller (cooler/quieter) package.
I’m not giving Nvidia a free pass. They deserve all they hate they get for their ridiculous prices and anticompetitive behavior. But the fact is they are behaving exactly how you’d predict a company with no competition to behave.This is just Vega on a new process, old ass arch with a hard CU limit, when Navi hits then you can judge amd
Companies tend to release old arch refreshes on new process nodes to get a grip of the new process and better yields
Also amd is matching Nvidia 12 nm with an old ass arch (rtx 2080)
But this is not AMDs answer, VII is a repurposed workstation card and their practice run at 7nm
When their actual new arch hits this year, then you can judge amd perfomance
Bolded: You are right but you should be bashing nvidia as well for offering the same performance for money. It doesnt excuse
This is also with 4 CU's disabled
Buying a Radeon 7 already saves me $100.00 as opposed to if I had to buy a RTX 2080FE......According to Gamers Nexus, HBM is $150.00, so I know I'm getting quality memory and AMD is not pricing the card at $700.00 just for shits and giggles, and guess what, I don't get 8GB of HBM, I get 16GB, as opposed to 8GB on a $800.00 card where even Polaris offered 8 gb on RX580 and Rx 590 at sub $300.00........More than this, I get double the bandwidth of the $800.00 Nvidia card......So I think I could spend a few more bucks on electricity for such value...……..May I ask where you exactly live? Even here in Germany where prices are usually higher, you can get the 2080 for 699€.
Err no. 5$ in electricity per year is so blatantly false. If I were to compare the 225W 2080 against the presumably 300W VII at THE BEST bucks per Watt in my local town, it's around 50€ a Year with my gaming habits. Since I DON'T have that electricity deal, it's actually around 70€ in electricity I'd pay for the VII per Year... sooo I get same performance for the same price as a 2080 and even have to pay ~50€ at least on TOP... That's a perfect example of a Premium on top just to go Team Red.
Who knows, maybe the real next Arch IS going to be very competitive or even bash out Nvidia, but let's be honest. This Card is in no way really competitive. Less features and more power draw for the same price as a 2080? Tell me please, what is the reason to get this card if I can buy a 2080 with RTX, DLSS and now even FreeSync Support for the same price and even save on ~50€ a year on electricity?
Waiting for your arguments.
A Massive leap in Horizon 4 and Strange Brigade. The more DX12 and Vulkan games we get in the future, the more we will see a gulf between Radeon 7 and RTX 2080FE, and especially the 1080ti Pascal...Don't post this. Remember, it's competing with the 1080 Ti and showing it being compared to the 2080 is not accurate and simply not fair to those with an agenda.
sarcasm alert
Indeed rumors say midrange Navi for 2019 and high end 2020. All Im saying is, dismissing amd based on vega performance is missing the point.I’m not giving Nvidia a free pass. They deserve all they hate they get for their ridiculous prices and anticompetitive behavior. But the fact is they are behaving exactly how you’d predict a company with no competition to behave.
As for “wait for Navi”, that’s true. But keep in mind most of the rumors so far say that the first Navi products will be mid-range. My guess is it’ll be something around Vega 64 performance but cheaper and lower power consumption - more like a successor to the RX580 than to Vega. It could be a year or more before we have high-end Navi.
and 4k as well!Supposedly it beats a GTX 2080 in Battlefield V @1440p Ultra settings (Direct X 11)
It can't be just a die shrink if it has double the ROPs. One of GCN's main issues was being unable to go beyond 64 ROPs. They must have adapted quite a bit to be able to double the ROPs, which was the weakest part of GCN in general.So people really can't comprehend the fact that this is just Vega with a die shrink?
and 4k as well!
It can't be just a die shrink if it has double the ROPs. One of GCN's main issues was being unable to go beyond 64 ROPs. They must have adapted quite a bit to be able to double the ROPs, which was the weakest part of GCN in general.
It has some tweaks and improvements for sure but its essentially vegaIt can't be just a die shrink if it has double the ROPs. One of GCN's main issues was being unable to go beyond 64 ROPs. They must have adapted quite a bit to be able to double the ROPs, which was the weakest part of GCN in general.
I remember people saying the same at Polaris launch... the real deal will be when Vega hits.It has some tweaks and improvements for sure but its essentially vega
The real deal will be when Navi hits
I wasn't there yet when that happenedI remember people saying the same at Polaris launch... the real deal will be when Vega hits.
Its a bit of a mixed answer, really. AMD can do this through Radeon Rays and OpenCL but that stuff isn't so much supported in games.I only asked the guy for a demo, because he kind off implied that raytracing can be done without dedicated hardware designed for it, but emulating it. It certainly can be done - very poorly. Absolutely not anywhere at the same IQ and perf. we see in BF5.
Okay, not gonna lie, this gave me a good chuckle, especially when it was near the bottom of the page and everything else was serious talk.Radeon Ga Ga
I'd sit alone and watch the light
You rendered every gaming night
With every graphics option on
I saw it on my Radeon
Radeon
You gave them all a high framerate
Though sometimes your drivers were late
You made 'em run without a hitch
In BF1942, Nvidia was your bitch
So don't become some console pleb
Running shovelware made for the web
For casuals who are so easy to impress
And can't see above 30fps
You had your time, you had the power,
I want to put you in my tower
Radeon
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon goo goo
Radeon ga ga
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon what's new?
Radeon, someone still loves you!
We watch the keynotes, we watch some suit
but no one cares about Compute
We hardly need to watch this trash
When you announce slow parts for lots of cash
Let's hope you support HDMI 2.1
So we can buy new TVs and have some fun
And stick around cos we might miss you
When we're stuck with Nvidia for a discrete GPU
You had your time, you had the power,
I want to put you in my tower
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon goo goo
Radeon ga ga
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon goo goo
Radeon ga ga
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon blah blah
Radeon what's new?
Radeon, someone still loves you!
You had your time, you had the power,
I want to put you in my tower
Radeon
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon goo goo
Radeon ga ga
All we hear is Radeon ga ga
Radeon blah blah
Radeon what's new?
Radeon, someone still loves you!
Loves you
Why is this a bad thing? options i mean. If anything the extra ram makes it more future proof for 4k gaming, if i was in the market for one of these i would choose the VII over the 2080So by their own advertising, they're expecting this to be a bit better in some titles than a 2080, undoubtedly hand picked titles and it'll trade blows. So 2080 performance, for the same price, 5 months later,
But its the old arch with even less CUs its impressive for what it is, i don't think AMD intended to retake the performance crown with this product. Everybody knew 7nm Vega was coming and it performed as expected i think? Nobody was expecting miracles from a old ass arcwith a generations fab lead and no RTX bits taking die space? That’s underwhelming. Oh, all that and it also appears to take more power with the power connectors...
Its not clear... rumors used to say it was but the latest rumors now claim Navi to be post gcnIs Navi the final GCN iteration?
Navi is supposed to be not GCN, but a new architecture. Vega is supposed to be last GCN cards. Of course, no one knows for sure until Navi is actually released.Is Navi the final GCN iteration?
Why even make this comment if you already know that this is not the arch that's going inside any consoleNear 300w tdp vs 215w (rtx280) tdp is the problem. Doesn’t bode well for Ps5 and we need to temper our expectations unless they can pull something out the hat with Navi. No mistake the Vega architecture is a disappointment for perf per watt.
Why even make this comment if you already know that this is not the arch that's going inside any console
Just old ass vega with some tweaks shrunk to 7nm. The high tdp likely because of diminishing returns being hit on clock speeds
There's no miracle to pull just a more efficient arch that breaks the CU limit which its becoming severely limiting. GCN reached its peak/limit
Competes against the 2080, but should have been 12GB(768GB/s) and $649, the extra memory loses impact at $699.
Though this is just a temporary solution for AMD, it's main objective is as PR to prove that they can still compete with Nvidia at the high end.
I don't even expect this card to be in production in 6 months time.
Since HBM is not solderd to the PCB but instead its all one big package, AMD is saving costs by keeping the 16gb of HBM2 that comes with Instinct GPUs instead of manufacturing a whole new GPU.Competes against the 2080, but should have been 12GB(768GB/s) and $649, the extra memory loses impact at $699.
what does this mean for the ps5 and nexbox?