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[ReplacementPelican]

So, I just saw a friend - an American - share this video of a comedian testifying to someone, or something (looked very official) about how lots of colleges in America have 'safe spaces' and people live in bubbles and, I just found this a bit weird.

My initial reaction was that 'college students' as a monolith was probably a bit generous to the point he was making. Sure enough, after a quick google I found that only 36% of students think they're necessary which seemed a bit odd for something I hear about all the time, even The Simpsons makes jokes about it. Its banded about a 'college campuses, college campuses' when its clearly somewhat of a small minority.

So, I dialed it back a bit. Who did I usually see talking about this? Where did I see this being discussed? And it sort of tended to be comedians. So, that seemed weird, this appeared to be something they seemed to actually care about rather than just being part of a routine. They'd always talk about how, in the old days, you'd just go and play the venue, say your shit and leave but now there's a bubble and too many 'safe spaces' but ultimately this seemed somewhat self-defeating because what he was asking for was a safe space, it seemed he had previously lived in a bubble and was upset now that he could be criticized or shut down for things he said that may offend people.

What I'm trying to discern is whether this rallying against 'college students' for having these ideas of protest is actually an infringement of free speech or an extension of it.

Had these people previously been exercising their free speech without others exercising that right back? Are safe spaces a massive issue?

Also, something I couldn't find numbers for but thought some of the Americans on this board could help me out with; how many Americans only consume from one news source? I found lots of things about safe spaces and people living in bubbles on Fox News but this seemed wholly ironic because I feel like most people who watch Fox News probably do so almost exclusively (after all, the station does seem to attack every other news organisation) but that would mean that those people live in a bubble.

In that sense it feels somewhat that college students are being scapegoated, is this just the new fad? To be so insular that you can criticize free speech for 'stopping' free speech? That we can call colleges 'bubbles' whilst only interacting with others in our sphere or only consuming news media from sources we deem to reflect our ideologies?

Sorry that this may be a bit rambly but I figured I could have a better discussion about this on Gaf than replying to someone on Facebook.

TL;DR:
Are safe spaces a 'thing'?
Are comedians trying to have their cake and eat it too by complaining about the free speech of others?
Are colleges 'liberal bubbles'?
If they are, is this reflective of America as a whole but there's a lack of introspection that goes into that criticism?

 

[Occam]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

 

[Platy]

Safe spaces are places where minorities can do their stuff without being interrupted by someone saying "...but what about cis/straight/white/male people ?".

Whatever stuff they want, including having a trump discussion based on his appeal to their own minority groups in the most non liberal way.

It is a great topic for shitty comedians because practically everyone on the audience will not be allowed to enter at least one safe space, so being excluded gets them angry and people love to laugh at what makes them angry

 

[Nairume]

The important thing to consider when talking about comedians bawling about safe spaces is who those comedians are, what their brand of humor is, and whether or not they have any need/desire to change that humor to keep up with the times.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Safe spaces have always existed. When you down to it one could argue the conservative platform is really all about maintaining safe spaces for straight white men

 

[jph139]

I think people sort of have a disconnect - like, anyone with a home, essentially, has a safe space. If you don't like what someone's saying, you can kick them out or turn off the TV or block them on Twitter or whatever. You have a right to that.

People on college campuses, or adults transitioning out of their parents homes, don't have that luxury. They are devoid of truly "personal" spaces that most of the adult world, in the US at least, are used to.

So, yeah, they have a desire to say "Here, in this spot? The bad shit stays outside." Don't we all?

Of course, where that spot is, how big it is, and who gets to decide what "bad shit" is... that's the tricky bit.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

I'm an American college student so maybe my opinion is worth something.

I think safe spaces on campus are fine, everyone should have a place to vent and discuss issues they share with people in their community or social group. For some it's with their friends/peers, others it's with their parents, and if some don't feel they can go to anyone who will understand then a safe space could do them a lot of good.

However, I think comedy is very important for everyone to hear since it's a satirical take on complex issues. It helps groups of people laugh about something they don't like or don't understand and, optimistically, they'll learn something about the topic in the process.

Now of course, there are comedians who use their stage time or fame to bash on people unnecessarily or in a non-joking way which, while allowed legally, is (in my opinion) an immature move.

There is a ton of grey area here since it can be hard to tell when the joking stops and the taunting begins but I think it should be up to the public to parse that for themselves. As the top comment of this thread says,

There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

There are lots of things we don't like to deal with in this life but that doesn't mean it's healthy to hide from them. People going to a comedy show should, and for the most part do, understand that they are taking the risk of hearing things they don't like or agree with while attending the show. If nothing else hopefully more people can understand that the comedian is not being 100% serious with their criticisms on groups or people, can take it in stride, and take solace in the fact that people might be learning something about their social group that they would not have listened to or heard about in their own personal echo chamber (i.e. their facebook/twitter/social media).

Edit: Removed the section of the quoted comment I don't agree with.

 

[Hypron]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

God forbid people want to chill for a couple of hours a week.

 

[Babyshams]

It's not that they can't take criticism or ridicule it's the way they go about it. Comedians and political pundits or speakers get booked by a college or an organization on the campus and that small minority make it their business to ruin it for the people that booked it or bought tickets.

They shout down lectures and interrupt performances, they use social media to attack these people to draw national attention to a small stage.

As a performer if I don't need the college campus shows to support myself I would pass on it too. It's not worth the hassle.

 

[daviyoung]

God forbid people want to chill for a couple of hours a week.

Like at a friend's house or down the pub?

 

[Bolivar687]

I think the number of colleges where this is actually happening is being magnified by the right as a recruiting tool. It's basically the college republicans at a small number of traditionally liberal schools who know exactly what they're doing when they invite incendiary provocateurs on campus.

I'm inclined to listen about the problem when it's Chris Rock or Jerry Seinfeld but I think they're latching onto sensationalist examples instead of a truly widespread problem.

 

[theCalamity]

Like at a friend's house or down the pub?

No safe spaces allowed. You must be bombarded by harassment at all times!

 

[iPaul93]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

Pretty much this.If you can't handle other people's opinions, you shouldn't go to a college/uni.

 

[deli2000]

Pretty much this.If you can't handle other people's opinions, you shouldn't go to a college/uni.

Like we don't have to endure dumbass opinions every day of our lives.

 

[Lkr]

I don't understand the whole safe space thing. The only safe space I've ever noticed at any of the schools I've attended were when the religious clubs on campus had guests that would put up pictures of aborted fetuses all over campus or some preacher yelling at gay people or girls in "slutty attire" that they're going to hell. Like straight up harrassment and this shit is allowed for some reason. So if other groups wanna do their own shit it doesn't bother me because I've never seen anyone else actually infringe on another's wellbeing with their safe space except the religious nutjobs

 

[Bearjewpiter]

It's not that they can't take criticism or ridicule it's the way they go about it. Comedians and political pundits or speakers get booked by a college or an organization on the campus and that small minority make it their business to ruin it for the people that booked it or bought tickets.

Isn't that the point of a comedy show though? The comedian comes and makes fun of hot button topics, especially for those who came to the show?

They shout down lectures and interrupt performances, they use social media to attack these people to draw national attention to a small stage.

The social media thing sure, but I don't know if I've ever heard of a comedian interrupting a university lecture, do you have a source?

 

[LordRaptor]

College / University is traditionally the venue where people learn to think for themselves, to challenge preconceptions and to question authority.
Its why they're traditionally one of the first things to go in totalitarian regimes, and one of the traditional hotbeds of civil protest and disorders.

Personally I think stifling of discourse is problematic, because part of learning to think for yourself is being confronted with ideas you may dislike, and formulate your own response.

"safe space" / "bubble" / "Snowflake" type rhetoric might be obnoxious, but it has an underlying point; you shouldn't just pretend things you disagree with don't exist and you shouldn't demand those voices should be stifled - you should learn to confront them and fight them.

The above is solely based on things like political speakers; actual "safe spaces" - for example not allowing men in abused womens shelters - is a very different thing.

 

[The Kree]

Comedians can say whatever they want. Audiences can react however they want. Nothing has changed.

Comedians whining about safe spaces sound like they need safe spaces to do comedy.

 

[sensui-tomo]

I don't understand the whole safe space thing. The only safe space I've ever noticed at any of the schools I've attended were when the religious clubs on campus had guests that would put up pictures of aborted fetuses all over campus or some preacher yelling at gay people or girls in "slutty attire" that they're going to hell. Like straight up harrassment and this shit is allowed for some reason. So if other groups wanna do their own shit it doesn't bother me because I've never seen anyone else actually infringe on another's wellbeing with their safe space except the religious nutjobs

Like i understand wanting to go to a place to avoid that, but generally i'd consider a coffee shop a safe space or anything not in the general vicinity of the preacher a safe space at that point.

 

[Zaphod]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

On my campus, veterans have a special lounge where they can relax and talk amongst themselves about problem specific to being a vet and to hang out with people with a similar background. I don't see that as being weak at all for wanting that.

 

[Palette Swap]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

I tend to assume that LGBT people gathering in a private place every now and then doesn't hurt anyone.
I also tend to think that every now and then, not being made fun of or insulted for what you are isn't detrimental to your development, and that generally speaking, there aren't that many great lessons to be learned from having your basic humanity and rights called into question.

More than anything, I think there's more value in listening to different people's experiences than telling them how or what they should feel, because being quiet is better than being a know it all jerk who calls others weaklings.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Comedians can say whatever they want. Audiences can react however they want. Nothing has changed.

Comedians whining about safe spaces sound like they need safe spaces to do comedy.

Pretty much unless people are going to argue that say a Muslim comedian going to a super conservative Christian campus and his/her Jones revolve around making fun of conservative white folks and Christianity would be met with open arms.

 

[AntChum]

Pretty much this.If you can't handle other people's opinions, you shouldn't go to a college/uni.

I don't know how it is in the US, but, when when I went to university in the UK, it was to get a degree in a specific subject, not listen to some dolt drone on about how "LGBT folk aren't real people"*.

*

Spoiler

Because it usually comes down to some dunderhead wanting to shit on LGBT people. Leave them the fuck alone, morons.

 

[Babyshams]

Isn't that the point of a comedy show though? The comedian comes and makes fun of hot button topics, especially for those who came to the show?



The social media thing sure, but I don't know if I've ever heard of a comedian interrupting a university lecture, do you have a source?

It's the kids on campus that cause the disturbance not the comedian. They claim the college as a safe space so the offensive/racist/sexist whatever shit the comedian is saying is not allowed.

And again comedians aren't interrupting it's students interrupting comedians, lecturers etc.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

Pretty much unless people are going to argue that say a Muslim comedian going to a super conservative Christian campus and his/her Jones revolve around making fun of conservative white folks and Christianity would be met with open arms.

But like you quoted,

Comedians can say whatever they want. Audiences can react however they want. Nothing has changed.

Things haven't changed that much in terms of audiences reacting how they want to. Comedians have always had to read the audience and know what jokes to tell and which not to, if they don't understand this then it's their fault, not the fault of safe spaces or whatever.

 

[acheron_xl]

It's the kids on campus that cause the disturbance not the comedian. They claim the college as a safe space so the offensive/racist/sexist whatever shit the comedian is saying is not allowed.

And again comedians aren't interrupting it's students interrupting comedians, lecturers etc.

This is a complaint I've heard from a ton of veteran comedians. College crowds are painted as becoming increasingly sensitive and sanctimonious.

 

[Kthulhu]

Are safe spaces a 'thing'?

Yes, but the definition has been stretched over the years, and they aren't common anyway.

Are comedians trying to have their cake and eat it too by complaining about the free speech of others?

Probably lol.

Are colleges 'liberal bubbles'?

Depends on the campus, most lean left though. That's more because college educated people typically are left leaning.

If they are, is this reflective of America as a whole but there's a lack of introspection that goes into that criticism?

I dunno.

 

[Preacher]

Everyone has a safe space. A group of friends is usually a safe space
So I don't see the problem

 

[Caelus]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

Terrible first post.

Issues like these need to stop being addressed in such abstract terms. The phrase "safe space" has been twisted to make a mockery of liberal spaces, when in reality it can be a useful tool which can facilitate one's growth and education.

 

[LewieP]

Plenty of people seem to not just want freedom of speech, but want freedom from criticism and consequence.

Edit: lots of comedians say "you shouldn't complain just because you were offended", to which my retort would be "what if I complain about being offended on stage in front of an audience, and deliver my complaints in a funny way".

 

[PopeReal]

The people I see that need safe spaces the most are nowhere near a campus.

 

[Stormwatch]

I'm pretty sure this is the video in question because I've been seeing it a lot in the past week as well...

https://youtu.be/wfjFFmM4Ldg

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Pretty much this.If you can't handle other people's opinions, you shouldn't go to a college/uni.

Dude something as simple as an AA meeting would be considered a safe space.

What do you picture when you hear the phrase "safe space" to be that dismissive of it?

Say if I want to complain about my job to a coworker and ask for advice, I go to a certain coworker and close the door and what's said stays between us, that's a safe space. What's the harm in that?

 

[Slo]

I think colleges should be the exact opposite of safe spaces, in the context of being challenged intellectually. Universities are exactly the place where I'd want intelligent, young minds to be challenged and to be forced to have sometimes heated debates about ideas that are different then their parent's ideas.

Logic should win out.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Plenty of people seem to not just want freedom of speech, but want freedom from criticism and consequence.

Edit: lots of comedians say "you shouldn't complain just because you were offended", to which my retort would be "what if I complain about being offended on stage in front of an audience, and deliver my complaints in a funny way".

I'd argue that criticism is one thing, that should always be allowed. But I feel there's a big difference between criticism and "You aren't allowed to do your routine here because X number of people deem your act to be offensive toward them". That goes a bit beyond simple criticism.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

I think colleges should be the exact opposite of safe spaces, in the context of being challenged intellectually. Universities are exactly the place where I'd want intelligent, young minds to be challenged and to be forced to have sometimes heated debates about ideas that are different then their parent's ideas.

Logic should win out.

.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

It's the kids on campus that cause the disturbance not the comedian. They claim the college as a safe space so the offensive/racist/sexist whatever shit the comedian is saying is not allowed.

And again comedians aren't interrupting it's students interrupting comedians, lecturers etc.

I see, I misunderstood, that I agree with.

This is a complaint I've heard from a ton of veteran comedians. College crowds are painted as becoming increasingly sensitive and sanctimonious.

This is true from what I've heard, the most notable example I've heard was Seinfeld saying he won't perform at universities anymore because of this. Which is his prerogative.

Plenty of people seem to not just want freedom of speech, but want freedom from criticism and consequence.

Edit: lots of comedians say "you shouldn't complain just because you were offended", to which my retort would be "what if I complain about being offended on stage in front of an audience, and deliver my complaints in a funny way".

As to your edit, I would say go for it but prepare for the same ridicule comedians face.

 

[The Kree]

I'd argue that criticism is one thing, that should always be allowed. But I feel there's a big difference between criticism and "You aren't allowed to do your routine here because X number of people deem your act to be offensive toward them". That goes a bit beyond simple criticism.

Adjust your performance or find another venue if you can't work within that one. There are many to choose from. It's the same option you have with pretty much any other career choice. You're not entitled to an audience or their laughter.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Honestly, I always assumed they were upset because college students have become bad audiences. Shouting them down and whatnot, but what they're asking for is a safe space to do their set. I can understand not wanting to perform where people are going to be overwhelmingly hostile.

 

[Babyshams]

Adjust your performance or find another venue if you can't work within that one. There are many to choose from. It's the same option you have with pretty much any other career choice. You're not entitled to an audience or their laughter.

They were booked by someone, they are wanted there, they sell tickets. It's a small minority trying to ruin the performance or just shut it down.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Adjust your performance or find another venue if you can't work within that one. There are many to choose from. It's the same option you have with pretty much any other career choice. You're not entitled to an audience or their laughter.

And some comedians choose to do just that. Chris Rock for example has stated that he and some other comedians have decided against playing colleges at all because of the attitudes there. I was simply responding to the idea that this was just criticism. It's not just criticism. Comedians are of course used to criticism. It's in part why they'll do sets outside of the spotlight to get a gauge on what does and doesn't work. But it's not criticism when your goal is to make sure that they aren't even allowed to do their routine at a particular venue.

 

[Misha]

Safe spaces are for weaklings, and they cause division. The world doesn't work like this. There are many unpleasant truths.
Deal with it or try to make it better if it's something that can be changed.

whats your experience with safe spaces? I can't say I've seen any space with that label in real life but I've always assumed they were similar to things like womens shelters and LGBT groups. If thats the case, doesn't it make sense why those areas are needed for those groups of people to have some time away from the issues they face outside of it?

 

[Bearjewpiter]

What the hell do you think a safe space is to think this is a good response?

I can't speak for others but I'll share what I've seen on my universities which is what I think of when I hear "safe spaces". They're just rooms that are designated as a "judgement free zone" or something similar, maybe not labeled exactly like that but hopefully you get the point. Which is totally fine by me, if it helps others then even better but I said this all in my original comment.

I'm guessing here but I would say that most people who think negatively of safe spaces probably are thinking of people at universities who go around (or those who they think go around) finger wagging and telling people what they can and cannot say outside of a safe space.

But again, that's just a guess.

 

[Apt101]

Most of our popular comedians are of a certain age, and they find friction when dealing with certain vocal minorities.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Pretty much this.If you can't handle other people's opinions, you shouldn't go to a college/uni.

Most legitimate college professors will correct dumbass opinions and that's more than enough for some to claim they are creating a "safe space".

 

[Future]

The problem with the perception of safe spaces is that students want them in more public places more often, seemingly avoiding views and perspectives they don't like. That it goes beyond simply wanting to not be harassed to also wanting to not be challenged in any way

 

[hamboner]

There are still so many people who frankly don't understand what a safe space is, why it's necessary or how often they themselves get to enjoy them.

Calling others weaklings for acknowledging they might need one everyone once in a while is a dickhead thing to say.

 

[LordRaptor]

Honestly, I always assumed they were upset because college students have become bad audiences. Shouting them down and whatnot, but what they're asking for is a safe space to do their set. I can understand not wanting to perform where people are going to be overwhelmingly hostile.

I suspect anyone who is a professional comedian has more than their fair share of standing on a stage being booed and heckled and have no expectation that every audience they play to are going to be polite, well behaved and sober.

 

[Dierce]

Comedians can say whatever they want, so can racist white assholes. They just hate it that our culture, as it stands now, will criticize them for being bigoted. That's all this is, trying to change it so that society is more open when it comes to bigotry without facing any repercussion.

 

[Nairume]

I'm inclined to listen about the problem when it's Chris Rock or Jerry Seinfeld but I think they're latching onto sensationalist examples instead of a truly widespread problem.

Honestly, I'm even less inclined to listen to people like Seinfeld when it comes to it. He's had it made for so long that the impetus to evolve with the times isn't really there and thus he can afford to just shut out audiences that might demand more of him.