aspaceman55
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America, Colleges, Comedians and 'Safe Spaces'
- Thread starter ReplacementPelican
- Start date
People don't necessarily make that distinction when talking about safe spaces. There is a huge difference between the two. I think that's one of the main issues when talking about the subject.
Krauser Kat
Member
comedians who bitch about safe spaces and not realizing they want their stages to be safe places because #itsjustajoke can go fuck themselves with a spiky object.
MastAndo
Member
I agree. Perhaps I'm speaking personally, but I feel like it''s become confusing to some people who may have perfectly good intentions and a willingness for understanding, but don't know which version of a "safe space" is being referenced when it comes up in conversation. I think it would help the conversation for both sides of the argument to dismiss those safe spaces which are blatant attempts to infantilize college-aged students.
A bit of a tangent, I feel like it ties in with certain labels that are thrown around very loosely as well, like when someone is called a racist or a Nazi. I'm sorry, but a Klan member, and like, some guy in that other thread perhaps trying to defend the usage of "digital blackface" in a misguided manner aren't one in the same. Similarly, you could have two well-meaning individuals/groups failing to see eye-to-eye because their understandings of an all-encompassing term are different.
I just graduated from a pretty liberal public university in Chicago, and the closest thing to safe spaces we had were the cultural centers and gender and sexuality center. Those were mostly places that provided resources to anyone who asked, occasionally had guest speakers, and were places for students to hang out. Everyone was welcome.
Most students used those places as a spot to hang out with their friends and meet new people. Remember, this is how those liberal colleges are corrupting the youth with their safe spaces.
I had an... acquaintance who was against "safe spaces" in colleges and against the cultural/G&S centers at our school, even though he had never even stepped foot inside one. I asked him if he wanted to see what they were like, but he refused. (so much for exposing yourself to new viewpoints, dude)
Maybe I'm just really confused and what I described aren't safe spaces. But it seems to me that everyone who rails against "safe spaces" just don't know what they are.
Serious question: how many people in this thread who dislike safe spaces have actually been inside one? I'd like to hear your experiences, because mine have been completely positive (and I say this as someone who did their best to go out of their comfort zone and listen to other viewpoints).
Most students used those places as a spot to hang out with their friends and meet new people. Remember, this is how those liberal colleges are corrupting the youth with their safe spaces.
I had an... acquaintance who was against "safe spaces" in colleges and against the cultural/G&S centers at our school, even though he had never even stepped foot inside one. I asked him if he wanted to see what they were like, but he refused. (so much for exposing yourself to new viewpoints, dude)
Maybe I'm just really confused and what I described aren't safe spaces. But it seems to me that everyone who rails against "safe spaces" just don't know what they are.
Serious question: how many people in this thread who dislike safe spaces have actually been inside one? I'd like to hear your experiences, because mine have been completely positive (and I say this as someone who did their best to go out of their comfort zone and listen to other viewpoints).
theCalamity
Member
I like how the people who say that safe spaces are for weaklings haven't come back to defend their comments.
More_Badass
Member
I think the issue is that the "safe spaces" that the right wing or comedians or whatnot criticize aren't the kind of things that are common on campuses. The common thing is a club or support group or peer group
For example, my campus had a peer group for students on the spectrum to meet with eachother, discuss issues and problems and concerns that were unique to our perspective and struggles, organize events on campus to teach other students, campus security, and professors about autism and aspergers and dispel stereotypes, and just hang out and be among friends
So you have two clashing voices in this discussions. The ones who think safe spaces means no dissenting opinions or something, "don't go college if you don't want to hear other opinions", and the ones that are like, "what are you talking about? That's not what safe spaces are"
For example, my campus had a peer group for students on the spectrum to meet with eachother, discuss issues and problems and concerns that were unique to our perspective and struggles, organize events on campus to teach other students, campus security, and professors about autism and aspergers and dispel stereotypes, and just hang out and be among friends
So you have two clashing voices in this discussions. The ones who think safe spaces means no dissenting opinions or something, "don't go college if you don't want to hear other opinions", and the ones that are like, "what are you talking about? That's not what safe spaces are"
Basically this
This is what privilege looks like
LinkAndEpona
Banned
I still want to get a Masters in either environmental or computer engineering and I'm absolutely dreading the new social bullshit I might have to deal with.
Going to grad school usually means being an assistant professor for classes. I just want to expand my education, not deal with adult children.
Going to grad school usually means being an assistant professor for classes. I just want to expand my education, not deal with adult children.
Psychoward
Banned
...what new social bullshit are you dreading?
Part of being an adult is using reading comprehension and critical thinking skills and if you read any stories from people actually in college right now you'd realize you're making a big fuss over nothing.
My experience of queer safe spaces is that they exist for people with mental health issues, neurodivergency, those recovering from trauma and trans and non binary folks who are likely to get abuse in non safe spaces. They're pretty important, actually. I have neurodivergent friends who really struggle outside of spaces that can accommodate their specific needs, and lots of queer friends recovering from trauma or mental health problems that need that gentle and supportive environment to help them heal.
Maybe I'm wrong (could anyone tell me?) but at the moment I feel this is all just hot air by folks who don't want to accept that other people might have special needs. It upsets me to see "safe spaces" as a phrase become this monolithic concept linked to "snowflakes" and stifling discussion. Please correct me though, I don't have the answers, I'm just concerned for people who do actually need them.
Maybe I'm wrong (could anyone tell me?) but at the moment I feel this is all just hot air by folks who don't want to accept that other people might have special needs. It upsets me to see "safe spaces" as a phrase become this monolithic concept linked to "snowflakes" and stifling discussion. Please correct me though, I don't have the answers, I'm just concerned for people who do actually need them.
Palette Swap
Member
You sound like you need a safe space.
If you are this bad at parsing through information to reach an informed conclusion like you're demonstrating in this thread, then an engineering degree will eat you alive.
Psychoward
Banned
If the library was founded in 2017 the right would call it a safe space for snowflakes because they wouldn't be able to talk loudly or yell on the quiet floors without being asked to leave.
Nope, you about nailed it. Like all things in life, the American right are hypocritical as hell. I wouldn't expect to be able to go to a College Republicans (lol) club meeting and start talking about how the modern GOP needs to be dismantled for their warfare on the poor without getting kicked out, but somehow they believe they should go to a so-called safe space and be able to tell LGBT and/or people with mental illnesses that homosexuality is a sin and depression is a figment of your imagination with no consequences. Because lol it's the real world man up. In addition to that, the argument is flawed from the start because most of their "opinions" won't be respected by any reputable university because facts have a liberal bias. Finally, they're not even arguing in good faith because "safe spaces" are incredibly rare and not something that's dotted all over the campus.
This isn't even getting in to the "free speech" arguments involved in not wanting people like Milo to speak at campuses.
Nope, you about nailed it. Like all things in life, the American right are hypocritical as hell. I wouldn't expect to be able to go to a College Republicans (lol) club meeting and start talking about how the modern GOP needs to be dismantled for their warfare on the poor without getting kicked out, but somehow they believe they should go to a so-called safe space and be able to tell LGBT and/or people with mental illnesses that homosexuality is a sin and depression is a figment of your imagination with no consequences. Because lol it's the real world man up. In addition to that, the argument is flawed from the start because most of their "opinions" won't be respected by any reputable university because facts have a liberal bias. Finally, they're not even arguing in good faith because "safe spaces" are incredibly rare and not something that's dotted all over the campus.
This isn't even getting in to the "free speech" arguments involved in not wanting people like Milo to speak at campuses.
CrimsonCommie
Member
The only people I see complaining about safe spaces are idiots and bigots that are losing their minds since the whole country isn't their "safe space" anymore cause now they get called out for their bullshit bigotry. They're just mad that can't say whatever they want without consequences anymore and want the whole country to be their safe space again
By far one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on this site and that's saying a lot.
Well it was until I started reading the thread about the Nazi and saw your posts in there. Holy fuck... not surprising at all that you think this
By far one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on this site and that's saying a lot.
Well it was until I started reading the thread about the Nazi and saw your posts in there. Holy fuck... not surprising at all that you think this
Journeywalker
Member
I don't know, I think safe spaces have implicit or explicit agreements that can include not hearing certain opinions. An LGBT group is not a place for someone to share the opinion that LGBT individuals are all evil sinners and pedophiles that should be in jail. But that agreement should not extend to the entire campus.
Decorum and social norms are implicit agreements that attempt to create a safe space from undesired behaviors and opinions. In a class room, someone may have the opinion that it is appropriate to interrupt a lecturer with high-pitch screatches, so he does so. He has "shared" his opinion and acted on it, which creates a conflict. Someone or something needs to be done to enforce the implicit agreement of the safe space. If it doesn't get enforced, he has altered that agreement.
Psychoward
Banned
Depending on the context that already does apply to the entire campus, especially private unis.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
i feel like people upset about safe spaces and in fear of them becoming more prevalent are you he same types who complain about the war on Christmas
As someone who's doing a PhD in engineering and has been at university for 6.5 years, let me tell you it's a complete non issue. "Safe spaces" being an issue is just conservative hysteria.
As an instructor at a university, the majority of people I've observed complaining about safe spaces and intolerant campuses not honoring their free speech are really more upset that their ideas don't meet the scrutiny and intellectual rigor of a scholarly forum.
White supremacy, for example, doesn't belong in any university. How does the idea advance truth and understanding? What net positive does it add to our society by entertaining it? How is it compatible with enlightenment inspired, western values like liberty, democracy, and equality? That sort of thing.
This is the kind of litmus test I hold for the ideas people demand the university pay attention to, and in the overwhelming number of cases the idea fails to pass.
White supremacy, for example, doesn't belong in any university. How does the idea advance truth and understanding? What net positive does it add to our society by entertaining it? How is it compatible with enlightenment inspired, western values like liberty, democracy, and equality? That sort of thing.
This is the kind of litmus test I hold for the ideas people demand the university pay attention to, and in the overwhelming number of cases the idea fails to pass.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Yeah, this is the main thing that bugs me. All these people keep talking about "being challenged" by "different opinions" when we all know we're talking about bigotry. Free speech doesn't mean respecting intellectually devoid nonsense or ensuring it has a platform.
Where do you come down on someone like Charles Murray giving a speech on a college campus?
Like with almost every facet of life... Things can have good meaning and implemented well.... and things can be taken to the extreme.
Safe spaces and turning away CERTAIN speakers is fine. Give people a place they are more comfortable in to a certain extent, and of course you don't want to invite the leader of the KKK or hate groups to have a place on campus.
But they've been taken to the extreme in some cases.
People are trying to ban things just because they don't agree with them. Don't ban conservative voices just because you don't agree with them.
Safe spaces and turning away CERTAIN speakers is fine. Give people a place they are more comfortable in to a certain extent, and of course you don't want to invite the leader of the KKK or hate groups to have a place on campus.
But they've been taken to the extreme in some cases.
People are trying to ban things just because they don't agree with them. Don't ban conservative voices just because you don't agree with them.
I would say the university has the right the invite whomever they see fit to speak at their campus, but the student body and faculty also have every right to protest people who they believe advance damaging beliefs antithetical to the spirit of the academy.
Protest is an essential part of the conversation, but the people who whine about getting protested at universities would have you believe otherwise.
Psychoward
Banned
Do you have any examples? Not doubting just wondering.
In my experience there are sane people who want something reasonable when they say "safe space" and then there is a vocal minority who take they idea to it's illogical conclusion and try to use "safe space/microaggression" to police other people, and not just from saying hate speech or slurs, but opinions they do not agree with, even about the most benign things. I think the latter is what most people have a problem with. I certainly have no issue with minority groups (racially or sexually) having what amounts to an on-campus club where they can gather and do their thing and I don't think any reasonable person would argue with that.
That said when Jerry Seinfeld, one of the cleanest working comics today won't play colleges anymore, it says something.
That said when Jerry Seinfeld, one of the cleanest working comics today won't play colleges anymore, it says something.
Problem seems to arise when people demonise things they dont agree with as "nazi" "white surpremacy" or "bigoted", the threshold in some places is so wide now that it just becomes a catch all for "Things that I dont believe in that slightly upset me"
I agree to a certain extent, but many of the protests that come to mind are of the variety that the speaker should not be allowed to come to the campus, and, if they do, there will be violence.
I don't think Allison Stanger deserved to be physically attacked, but here we are.
Journeywalker
Member
That's their prerogative, but it should probably be spelled out in a student agreement that's part of the application process.
I think college students should come face-to-face with bigotry. That way, students can be guided in learning how to combat it. But when they don't want to deal with it, they can easily find a place that includes the agreement that LGBT people should not be in jail.
If we're commited to freedom of speech, public universities should not have a student agreement that disallows bigotry.
People should watch the congress debate this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRrGLGqrs80
They pretty much, dem and repub, unanimously agree that Students should not be isolated from speech, the best way to deal with this is to engage, question and trust the student population to challenge these ideas and anyone expected to go to college and sit in their bubble is doing themselves a disservice. Also while it is fine to protest, it should be peaceful and respect other peoples rights to speak.
They disagree slightly over how best to enforce this, most believe it should not be regulatory but acknowledge there is an inherent problem with college administrators monkeying around with events they personally dont believe in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRrGLGqrs80
They pretty much, dem and repub, unanimously agree that Students should not be isolated from speech, the best way to deal with this is to engage, question and trust the student population to challenge these ideas and anyone expected to go to college and sit in their bubble is doing themselves a disservice. Also while it is fine to protest, it should be peaceful and respect other peoples rights to speak.
They disagree slightly over how best to enforce this, most believe it should not be regulatory but acknowledge there is an inherent problem with college administrators monkeying around with events they personally dont believe in.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Do you think minorities don't face bigotry unless forced to deal with it at college?
KibblesBits
Member
Why do people still equate safe spaces with hiding from problems and being cowardly? That's not really what they're around for, in most cases.
More_Badass
Member
A "bubble" and a safe space aren't equivalent though. The latter isn't there to isolate oneself and never hear dissenting opinions or whatnot. I'd liken it to a course selection. History is a broad and encompassing topic, but the syllabus for and discussion had in the Sumerian Culture course and the World War 2 course are going to be very different and distinct, focused on specific areas and nuances. You might be able to connect the two, or bring one up to make a point about the other, but more likely, it's going to be an odd tangent that muddles the topic
That's what a safe space does. It focuses discussion. (ie a spectrum peer group, an AA support group, etc)
As has been mentioned in the thread, there are people who think their "safe space" should extend to the campus as a whole. So you end up with the various things that have happened at Berkeley, the violence at Middlebury, the insane situation at Evergreen, and the embarrassing infants at Yale to list the most obvious examples.
I fully support the idea of traditional safe spaces that have been around for awhile. They are basically clubs and support groups. I've been a part of a group for mental health myself that was very beneficial. It is a completely different discussion when the group in question is essentially the entire university as a whole.
uncelestial
Member
White people needed safe spaces so badly they had full-on segregation until the 1960s.
Im not sure I can equivocate alcoholism or mental health problems with being a certain race, sex, gender or sexuality, unless you are talking abotu safe spaces for other things.
Woke af, fam.
More_Badass
Member
It's the same idea. People with the same shared concerns, perspective, issues, struggles discussing and working together from that unique shared foundation. That foundation allows for a mutual understanding and relatability
Well its not quite the same because alcoholism and mental health groups tend to deal with admitting that the problem is internal and not shaping society to work around your problem but finding ways to work within society. Whereas the narrative I tend to hear in safe spaces is "How society is fucked and how we are the victims", which might be true, might not be, but its a different kind of approach and id argue not entirely healthy, but its not like I am planning to stop people doing it, to each their own.
More_Badass
Member
Where did you get that notion from?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Is that the narrative you hear in safe spaces, or the narrative you hear about safe spaces?
You know what never mind, im good on equivocation for today
Well numerous sources, both from anecdotal left and right columnists, from debate platforms, from many places on the internet, from the general advocacy of what safe spaces are and why they are needed, infact I dont think I could name you place I have heard to the contrary, but I admit I cant know everything and am perfectly willing to accept that there may be some, or many that dont see the world this way. I should also state my views are not just limited to safe spaces for traditionally left leaning groups, they also go towards right leaning college groups that have, in the past, retreated behind a cloud of victimhood.
shockthrill
Banned
Why should Academia/University have a "safe space" in general
I'm totally for individual groups discussing privately about their challenges, but it should NOT be a school policy of any kind, because ultimately they prevent new ideas from emerging
Charles Darwin had to deal with a societal "safe space" when he released On the Origin of Species
Galileo the same way with the church
the general idea is not good
I'm totally for individual groups discussing privately about their challenges, but it should NOT be a school policy of any kind, because ultimately they prevent new ideas from emerging
Charles Darwin had to deal with a societal "safe space" when he released On the Origin of Species
Galileo the same way with the church
the general idea is not good
It's hard for me to imagine dealing with people like this. I'd probably just laugh in their face. And this is Yale. Supposedly the brightest of the bright.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QqgNcktbSA
I especially like the "be quiet!" outburst shortly into the video. It is like she wanted to make it especially clear she was an infant in an adult body.
Feel free to PM me if you want a discussion when you wake up, sleep well
shockthrill
Banned
if you take a STEM class, you probably won't see much of this
humanities/social science majors tend to be overall, more political
Comedian chiming in here:
Too many comics fail to "punch up" with their jokes and sometimes their controversial stuff doesn't have any social capital.
THAT SAID.
Sometimes people get away with "more" because they're famous. Universities absolutely are reluctant to book comics because of fear they will say something that will put them in the spotlight. "Safe" comedians get booked way more than controversial ones.
Brian Regan
Jim Gaffigan
Kevin Hart
Iliza Shlesinger
Those are a few I've seen hitting universities as of late.
Who don't you see? Dane Cook, Dave Attell, Sarah Silverman, etc.
ypu gotta be squeaky clean or immensely famous to hit a college campus, otherwise you probably aren't getting booked.
Too many comics fail to "punch up" with their jokes and sometimes their controversial stuff doesn't have any social capital.
THAT SAID.
Sometimes people get away with "more" because they're famous. Universities absolutely are reluctant to book comics because of fear they will say something that will put them in the spotlight. "Safe" comedians get booked way more than controversial ones.
Brian Regan
Jim Gaffigan
Kevin Hart
Iliza Shlesinger
Those are a few I've seen hitting universities as of late.
Who don't you see? Dane Cook, Dave Attell, Sarah Silverman, etc.
ypu gotta be squeaky clean or immensely famous to hit a college campus, otherwise you probably aren't getting booked.
Heavy_D206
Member
I get what you are going for, but Tosh gets booked at Uni's all over the country every year and he's definitely not clean by any standard. If you're talented and hilarious then you can get away with being edgy like Tosh or Jim Jeffries.