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[Go_Ly_Dow]

To me, a good example of a safe space is an AA meeting.
People complaining about it is just like "why can't I got there and debate that they are worthless bums who will never be anything in life because of their weak will?"

The notion that people who seek a safe space should be on debate-mode 24 hours is insane.

"people who feel they are being harassed and need a place to talk about it, please come to our meeting. Ps: your harasser will probably be here and you will have to debate them why harassing you is wrong. See you at 7!"

I've been to an AA meeting with a friend, people were venting, people gave advice to each other and people listeners. That's different from a University group where people get together and quickly agree how all their problems are at fault of specific genders, races, religions and try to advocate for authoritarian societal change, without involving the people they're supposedly advocating for or disagree with. People in AA meetings are victims of a substance and their own mental addictions and challenges, it's quite clear. Groups of people who say they're victims due to another group of people are ideologically driven and remain part of a Ideological hive mind. People can be victims for a multiude of internal or external reasons in their lives it's complex and needs to be discussed.

The authoritarian left and the bigoted right are part of the same mindset of ignorance.

 

[uncelestial]

The authoritarian left and the bigoted right are part of the same mindset of ignorance.

Nah.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I've been to an AA meeting with a friend, people were venting, people gave advice to each other and people listeners. That's different from a University group where people get together and quickly agree how all their problems are at fault of specific genders, races, religions and try to advocate for authoritarian societal change, without involving the people they're supposedly advocating for or disagree with. People in AA meetings are victims of a substance and their own mental addictions and challenges, it's quite clear. Groups of people who say they're victims due to another group of people are ideologically driven and remain part of a Ideological hive mind. People can be victims for a multiude of internal or external reasons in their lives it's complex and needs to be discussed.

The authoritarian left and the bigoted right are part of the same mindset of ignorance.

When was the last time you went to and observed either an AA meeting or a "university group"

 

[Aselith]

Pretty much this.If you can't handle other people's opinions, you shouldn't go to a college/uni.

Colleges are places to learn. That includes having a space to develop your thoughts and argue them with like minded people before you take them out to the larger world.

Think of a safe space as laboratory for social issues. You don't stay in the lab forever but its a place to test your own opinion but also not be facing open hostility as you do it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's great to see all these posters who probably consider themselves intelligent and fair saying that women and blacks just blame whites and men for their problems

 

[Renegade Frost]

Safe spaces are places where minorities can do their stuff without being interrupted by someone saying "...but what about cis/straight/white/male people ?".

Whatever stuff they want, including having a trump discussion based on his appeal to their own minority groups in the most non liberal way.

It is a great topic for shitty comedians because practically everyone on the audience will not be allowed to enter at least one safe space, so being excluded gets them angry and people love to laugh at what makes them angry

Safe spaces have absolutely nothing to do with minorities.

Tney're designed for trauma victims (usually rape victims)


Safe space is just code for "liberal environment" these days because comics started telling shitty jokes and then started whining about the pushback

 

[excelsiorlef]

Safe spaces have absolutely nothing to do with minorities.

Tney're designed for trauma victims (usually rape victims)


Safe space is just code for "liberal environment" these days because comics started telling shitty jokes and then started whining about the pushback

Safe space originated as a concept within the women's movement and then really within the LGBT community like almost 30 years ago.

 

[deli2000]

It's great to see all these posters who probably consider themselves intelligent and fair saying that women and blacks just blame whites and men for their problems

Our viewpoints are not worthy of empathy or nuance to a lot of posters on this board, that's been pretty clear for a while now.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Safe spaces have absolutely nothing to do with minorities.

Tney're designed for trauma victims (usually rape victims)

You're thinking of triggers maybe?

 

[Fudgepuppy]

It's easy to decry safe spaces when you're living in a world that effectively caters to you and your group as the "default" on a daily basis.

If you're not part of the group the safe space is for, you have no right to tell them how they should feel and react towards society. If they want a safe space every once in a while to go to with other people like them, they probably have their valid reasons.

 

[Mailbox]

I will always say this: but safe spaces aren't for "the weak", its for people who need emotional and community support. Its not a bubble, some safe spaces (especially university ones) offer support and "no judgement" areas, and often times offer counseling and therapy. Its about getting help and support, not about living in a bubble.

And the weird comedian idea that universities can't handle dark humour is asinine and insulting to me. I've had a lot of profs that make weird, off-colour jokes and even some jokes that are just weirdly childish and we all just roll with it. If it is actually funny, we laugh, if it wasn't, then so be it; if it was offensive and off the mark completely, we just silently judge and the person or prof gets it and moves on.

Its about audience expectations and comedian range. Often, comedians feel like they can use the same material or similar styles for wildly different audiences. I can't tell you how many times i've heard hammy dumb "science-y" jokes that had the lecture hall laughing a storm.

Here's a tip for playing at a college: Sexual humour (more personal is better, don't make it about gender), intensity, science-y, and maybe even childish humour will go a long way. Political, current events, etc. type humour aint so much!

 

[Renegade Frost]

Safe space originated as a concept within the women's movement and then really within the LGBT community like almost 30 years ago.

Which makes sense considering how much anxiety and other sorts of bullshit they put up with on a daily basis

Makes me sad that people are so afraid.

Its kinda strange tho since we're technically in the safest time but americans are scared even more so now

 

[trixx]

I don't know but I personally don't have a problem with it. There's some people that go through a lot of shit. I think they had one for native population on campus, because they'd hear some ridiculousness. Also trauma victims

Sure the real world doesn't care for your feelings I'm hoping the people having real psychological issues are receiving professional help though.

 

[Journeywalker]

Advocating for equal outcome over equal opportunity.

I would disagree strongly with someone that truly believes in equal outcomes. I think that ideal is a tiny minority. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that you're using that as a strawman.

 

[sploatee]

If the library was founded in 2017 the right would call it a safe space for snowflakes because they wouldn't be able to talk loudly or yell on the quiet floors without being asked to leave.



Nope, you about nailed it. Like all things in life, the American right are hypocritical as hell. I wouldn't expect to be able to go to a College Republicans (lol) club meeting and start talking about how the modern GOP needs to be dismantled for their warfare on the poor without getting kicked out, but somehow they believe they should go to a so-called safe space and be able to tell LGBT and/or people with mental illnesses that homosexuality is a sin and depression is a figment of your imagination with no consequences. Because lol it's the real world man up. In addition to that, the argument is flawed from the start because most of their "opinions" won't be respected by any reputable university because facts have a liberal bias. Finally, they're not even arguing in good faith because "safe spaces" are incredibly rare and not something that's dotted all over the campus.

This isn't even getting in to the "free speech" arguments involved in not wanting people like Milo to speak at campuses.

Thanks, that is very kind to say. I think the rarity is a good point too. I hope it's true. There has to be spaces for free and frank debate and discussion but my actual experience of safe spaces is that they really are about safety / security first for people who can't really function in "standard" spaces. It's really cruel to insist that people with differing needs just "man up" and I'm not sure what it achieves.

Strange preoccupations at the moment: safe spaces, trans people in the military...these are all such small fry compared to real issues like poverty, inequality, healthcare, hate crime, the breakdown of communities...the argument just seems to be a way for people to yell "I DON'T LIKE THING AND I'M ANGRY AT WORLD FOR REASONS!" instead of actually exploring those reasons and the upset that might lie behind them. "Sad".

 

[Journeywalker]

I've been to an AA meeting with a friend, people were venting, people gave advice to each other and people listeners. That's different from a University group where people get together and quickly agree how all their problems are at fault of specific genders, races, religions and try to advocate for authoritarian societal change, without involving the people they're supposedly advocating for or disagree with. People in AA meetings are victims of a substance and their own mental addictions and challenges, it's quite clear. Groups of people who say they're victims due to another group of people are ideologically driven and remain part of a Ideological hive mind. People can be victims for a multiude of internal or external reasons in their lives it's complex and needs to be discussed.

The authoritarian left and the bigoted right are part of the same mindset of ignorance.

I don't agree that safe spaces are about victimhood.

NeoGAF is a safe space in that bigotry, shitposting, ad hominem, arguing in bad faith, and trolling result in a ban. We have these rules because we agree that they are counterproductive to discussion. I think it's pretty evident that the forum has nothing to do with victimhood.

 

[Nipo]

I don't agree that safe spaces are about victimhood.

NeoGAF is a safe space in that bigotry, shitposting, ad hominem, arguing in bad faith, and trolling result in a ban. We have these rules because we agree that they are counterproductive to discussion. I think it's pretty evident that the forum has nothing to do with victimhood.

That said i've never seen a respectful argument between conservatives and liberals on neogaf that didn't devolve into name calling or bans (if you have some examples i'd love to read the threads). In that respect I think metafilter, not neogaf, is a much better example of what internet safespaces should be.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Safe spaces have absolutely nothing to do with minorities.

Tney're designed for trauma victims (usually rape victims)


Safe space is just code for "liberal environment" these days because comics started telling shitty jokes and then started whining about the pushback

....

You know racism frequently causes trauma right?

 

[Journeywalker]

That said i've never seen a respectful argument between conservatives and liberals on neogaf that didn't devolve into name calling or bans (if you have some examples i'd love to read the threads). In that respect I think metafilter, not neogaf, is a much better example of what internet safespaces should be.

I think that's a legitimate criticism, and it reflects the political environment of the society at large. There's an unfortunate prevalence of dogpiling and grenade-rolling, which are two sides of the same coin. Unfortunately, grenade-rolling usually results in a warning or ban, while dogpiling has no consequences.

NeoGAF is by no means an example of what internet safe spaces should be. But it's not hurting the internet at large. I'll have to check out metafilter.

 

[Tawpgun]

Do you have any examples? Not doubting just wondering.

http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-disinvited-speakers-at-colleges-2016-7

There are people on that list I really disagree with. Like REALLY disagree with. But I don't think they should be banned from speaking. If there is a sufficient amount of students who want to see a certain speaker, within limits, that speaker should be allowed to speak there.

Don't invite people who are clearly racist and peddling hate speech. But I think it's gone too far.

It's better to protest outside the venue, or do something like a walkout, instead of calling for them to be banned or disrupting their event.

For instance, my roommate was in a Palestinian Justice group at my school. Hillel invited some IDF people to come speak. My roommate, SJP, and people who were standing in solidarity with them, went to the event. And sometime toward the beginning or middle, stood up and did their chants as they walked out. It delivers a message, but the disruption is minimal.

Even better, if there is a Q/A portion, as a lot of these have, challenge the speakers there.

 

[Renegade Frost]

....

You know racism frequently causes trauma right?

Sure.

But I've experienced all kinds of trauma myself and I know all to well, that fear helps nobody when they're not in imminent danger.