Support NeoGAF

[El_Tiguere]

I like Bernie sanders and think he is a good person but Bernie is also a politician and has in the past shown that he is a hypocrite. He voted for the 94 crime bill knowing full well what the consequences were but he voted anyway because it contained an assault weapons ban and the violence against women act provision. His vote for the 94 crime bill helped doom a generation of young black and latino men to being stuck in the criminal justice system for life. The dude even had the nerve to put this quote on his campaign website "You can’t throw vulnerable people under the bus just because it’s politically expedient." and yet in the past he has shown that he will do so. Bernie is not infallible.

Do you hold Clinton to the same standard, when she actually championed the aspect of the Crime bill that targeted black people? Did you look the other way when it was her (or did you simply assume that a Clinton was better for black people just because?) Bernie was clamoring for criminal justice reform in the next breath after economic injustice... while Clinton was still taking money from the private prison lobby.

No, not really. People keep bringing up race because people like you keep trying to pretend it wasn't a factor, that we shouldn't talk about it, that we should just pretend it never existed because it's more politically expedient to do so.

I have never said or implied we shouldn't talk about race, and it was a factor in as much rural white voters are more racist. I'm arguing that while it was a factor, it likely lit a fire under the ass of the 30-35% of voters who are to the far right. A black man spouting policies that also benefit black people won in 2008 and 2012 because he was promising hope and change. It takes mental gymnastics to hypothesize that just because they didn't vote against policies that benefit black people then, doesn't mean that white Republicans were voting because of a backlash on race (keep in mind the data in the article in the OP highlights that Republican voters in 2016 were LESS racist than in 2012). It takes mental gymnastics to hypothesize that Obama's comments on Trayvon Martin or the story of Kaepernick would unleash racist backlash across all Republican voters. This is one of the most ridiculous talking points on this I have seen yet. The hope and change candidate was on the right in 2016, and too many moderates and independents wanted that IN SPITE of allegations against Trump's character. Dissatisfaction with the direction the country was headed, with the economy being #1 in people's minds going into the election, was the grand unifier of those who voter to burn it all down with Trump.

This debate has always been about election strategy going forward, based on what happened in 2016. 10 million Democrats staying home versus 2012 happened in 2016. 40% of independent/affiliated voters stayed home in 2016. There was one candidate promising change and jobs, and one candidate promising more of the same. There was one candidate honing in on the growing populism across the world (due 100% to economics), and one candidate siding with the establishment people had been increasingly lashing out against from all sides. There was one candidate focusing on bad trade deals and the effects of globalization, and there was one candidate championing those. There was one candidate promising bold action, and there was one candidate talking incremental half-assed progress that DC bureaucrats were accustomed to (but that more and more Americans grew tired of). There was one candidate promising to "fix" the corrupt system, and one candidate was urging voters to trust the same system for four more years.

Trump appealed to, and emboldened the racists assholes on the right, the ignorant that fell for Fox/Breitbart propaganda against Muslims, and the poor white people believed their leaders when they got sold the bullshit xenophobia that our economic problems are due to too many foreign brown workers competing for their jobs. Even then, the decision for many poor white people came down to their ability to live a good life where they can provide for their families with decent jobs. It's a human thing. It's also an election thing, since it is an established fact through all polls that the economy was the #1 issue going into the election.

At the end of the day, my entire arguing is not to move the conversation away from race. We should purge our modern society from any "tradition" or mindset that actively hurts people daily. With that said, if you need to ensure victory for your platform in a 48% vs 48% contest (the respective "safe" bases for each party), "if you don't side with us, you are racist!" is not a winning sound bite. That much should be clear. If we want the majority of the 4% in the middle that will swing an election in your favor, you focus on the message that resonated most with those without party loyalty: the economy. I can't say it enough, but head to head polls against Trump always showed Bernie carrying that 4% in the middle (even more, at the usual 55-45 margins against Trump), because his message about economic inequality resonated with most. He got those margins despite his talks of racial justice, equality for all, and policies that help black people. Maybe the white voters were not racist while taking those polls?

Your mental model of the world (where racial differences dominates your world view) is not shared by all, and you have to accept that. What IS shared across all races is the class divide that tears civilizations apart, including ours. If you address the class divide, like Bernie did (and like Trump laughably stole the message from Bernie), you get support from people in the middle, and those who stayed home.

 

[The Technomancer]

Your mental model of the world (where racial differences dominates your world view) is not shared by all, and you have to accept that. What IS shared across all races is the class divide that tears civilizations apart, including ours. If you address the class divide, like Bernie did (and like Trump laughably stole the message from Bernie), you get support from people in the middle, and those who stayed home.

Working class whites in America do not stand in solidarity with working class blacks. They basically never have

 

[El_Tiguere]

Working class whites in America do not stand in solidarity with working class blacks. They basically never have

This is your assumption. It is also your assumption that they wouldn't going forward. It is also your assumption that voters under 45 are as bigoted as the older folk. We don't need the racist fringe to join our side, but we do need the backing of workers to take back the country from the reigns of the oligarchs. The workers were solidly behind Bernie in a head-to-head matchup against Trump, which defies your myopic world view that everything is judged based on race.

 

[googleplex]

Working class whites in America do not stand in solidarity with working class blacks. They basically never have

And a large segment of Working Class whites will never want to, because they want to retain their superior social status over Working class black/hispanics/ect economics be danmed.

This is your assumption. It is also your assumption that they wouldn't going forward. It is also your assumption that voters under 45 are as bigoted as the older folk. We don't need the racist fringe to join our side, but we do need the backing of workers to take back the country from the reigns of the oligarchs. The workers were solidly behind Bernie in a head-to-head matchup against Trump, which defies your myopic world view that everything is judged based on race.

It's not an assumption. It's fact backed up by 400 years of history and every modern-day study on the issues.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Working class whites in America do not stand in solidarity with working class blacks. They basically never have

You don't have to make them stand with solidarity.

You have to enact actual policies that actually benefit both instead of giving positive but ultimately worthless lip service to one and glaring with disgust at the other as the DNC has of late.

 

[googleplex]

You don't have to make them stand with solidarity.

You have to enact actual policies that actually benefit both instead of giving positive but ultimately worthless lip service to one and glaring with disgust at the other as the DNC has of late.

This is bullshit because those same white Americans will reject policies if they imagine they they benefit people other then them. Even if that same policy benefits them disproportionately!

See Obamacare

 

[R0ckman]

And? Where do we go from here? No one is going to admit anything. So that leaves us with Democrats needing to get their votes.

Is it possible or do we have to just invest time into getting more Democrats to vote?

There is no progress possible with the Republican party as it currently exists. Or compromise, which they have proven isn't possible.

What did Obama do, that Hillary failed at mostly. It was the turnout. But the dems dropped the ball severely there assuming a w.

It's obvious you aren't a modereate. But the top paragraph sounds about as far as moderates will go in admittance.

 

[El_Tiguere]

And a large segment of Working Class whites will never want to, because they want to retain their superior social status over Working class black/hispanics/ect economics be danmed.

Can you put a number on that "large segment"? is it 60,80,90,100%? I can affirm that a large segment of men want to retain their superior social status over women, and that pro-women legislation will never come to pass. Thankfully, not many have such a regressive myopic view on gender dynamics, but apparently some do when it comes to race.

This is bullshit because those same white Americans will reject policies if they imagine they they benefit people other then them. Even if that same policy benefits them disproportionately!

Could it be that conservatives hate welfare on the principle of not paying for someone else's perceived laziness? that conservatives value individual drive and self-reliance over getting hand-outs? that they view this as the most inherent "American" thing since the days of Plymouth rock? perhaps it has little to do with race?

Again, there is a large batch of white voters who are ignorant enough to fall for the propaganda on brown immigrant workers, but this ignorance can be cured (it is not inherent in biology). A uniter-in-chief will do a better job at curing this ignorance, versus someone who runs on the idea that the ignorant are deplorable and irredeemable.

 

[R0ckman]

Can you put a number on that "large segment"? is it 60,80,90,100%? I can affirm that a large segment of men want to retain their superior social status over women, and that pro-women legislation will never come to pass. Thankfully, not many have such a regressive myopic view on gender dynamics, but apparently some do when it comes to race.



Could it be that conservatives hate welfare on the principle of not paying for someone else's perceived laziness? that conservatives value individual drive and self-reliance over getting hand-outs? that they view this as the most inherent "American" thing since the days of Plymouth rock? perhaps it has little to do with race?

Again, there is a large batch of white voters who are ignorant enough to fall for the propaganda on brown immigrant workers, but this ignorance can be cured (it is not inherent in biology). A uniter-in-chief will do a better job at curing this ignorance, versus someone who runs on the idea that the ignorant are deplorable and irredeemable.

Information is at your finger tips, this is WILLFUL ingorance.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm tired of hearing about economics in regards to this election because no one has been able to explain the disparity in voting patterns between poor white and non-white voters (whites aren't the only ones who suffer from wealth inequality- shocker,) nor the fact that rich white people voted for Trump in droves.

It was racism that motivated such a moral failure of a vote, even if people don't want to admit it.

 

[El_Tiguere]

I'm tired of hearing about economics in regards to this election because no one has been able to explain the disparity in voting patterns between poor white and non-white voters (whites aren't the only ones who suffer from wealth inequality- shocker,) nor the fact that rich white people voted for Trump in droves.

It was racism that motivated such a moral failure of a vote, even if people don't want to admit it.

Economics ruled the day. Poor whites will vote to change course of an economy that is crushing them, regardless of Trump's stance on racial issues. Poor blacks under 30 voted to change course of an economy that is crushing them by voting for Bernie in the primaries, and likely staying home instead of supporting either of the final two shit candidates (one with racist tendencies, and the other promising more of the same). The more docile older voters DID go for the status quo with Clinton, but they can be just as out-of-touch as Clinton was about the economic troubles facing the majority of Americans.

 

[The Greek Freak]

This is bullshit because those same white Americans will reject policies if they imagine they they benefit people other then them. Even if that same policy benefits them disproportionately!

See Obamacare

You are talking about alot of states that voted Obama twice.

Acting as if these millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE that either voted Trump or not at all suddenly became klan members that wish I was hanging from a tree is absurd and incredibly lazy.

Not to mention the vast majority of racism in this country lies somewhere on a spectrum.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

You are talking about alot of states that voted Obama twice.

Acting as if these millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE that either voted Trump or not at all suddenly became klan members that wish I was hanging from a tree is absurd and incredibly lazy.

Not to mention the vast majority of racism in this country lies somewhere on a spectrum.

Voting for a black candidate once or twice is not some shield against racism or being racist. Please stop using it as such.

If you can recognize that racism is on a spectrum then why do you assume that everyone who thinks those voters are racist thinks they are klan members as opposed to just regular garden variety racists?

 

[The Greek Freak]

Voting for a black candidate once or twice is not some shield against racism or being racist. Please stop using it as such.

Never said it was, but it's definitely a shield against the comically lazy ass narrative that they voted for Obama twice and racism made them vote for Trump.

If you can recognize that racism is on a spectrum then why do you assume that everyone who thinks those voters are racist thinks they are klan members as opposed to just regular garden variety racists?

Because that is how Gaf and everyone that acts like Clinton didn't run a dumpster fire campaign treats these people, they enjoy that they have miserable lives and that their towns are shit holes filled with nothing besides opiate addiction and diabetes. It's disgusting.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Could it be that conservatives hate welfare on the principle of not paying for someone else's perceived laziness? that conservatives value individual drive and self-reliance over getting hand-outs? that they view this as the most inherent "American" thing since the days of Plymouth rock? perhaps it has little to do with race?

lol. You say this as if conservatives somehow are not on welfare and it's only democrat voters...how wrong you would be.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

Never said it was, but it's definitely a shield against the comically lazy ass narrative that they voted for Obama twice and racism made them vote for Trump.



Because that is how Gaf and everyone that acts like Clinton didn't run a dumpster fire campaign treats these people, they enjoy that they have miserable lives and that their towns are shit holes filled with nothing besides opiate addiction and diabetes. It's disgusting.

You simply imply it. It's not a lazy or absurd argument. It's backed by factual evidence that this thread and a few others are explicitly about.

There are plenty of Gaffers who supported Clinton in this thread whom have talked about the weaknesses of the Clinton campaign and her candidacy itself. While I wouldn't go so far as to call it a dumpster fire even though I realize there are many things that could have been done better and or differently.

 

[pigeon]

Never said it was, but it's definitely a shield against the comically lazy ass narrative that they voted for Obama twice and racism made them vote for Trump.

Have a racist day

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It's weird watching posters like Tiguere attempt to again try to litigate matters that have already been reviewed and researched. It's like all these concepts are new to him or her and that they all should be explored again as if they were brand new. As if they are a matter of debated opinion rather than researched and established facts.

Good sir, I can recommend some books to you that can move your thinking past some of your somewhat embryonic understandings. If you are so inclined.

 

[pigeon]

Could it be that conservatives hate welfare on the principle of not paying for someone else's perceived laziness? that conservatives value individual drive and self-reliance over getting hand-outs? that they view this as the most inherent "American" thing since the days of Plymouth rock? perhaps it has little to do with race?

It could be, but it isn't, because conservatives support and make use of wealth transfers all the time, they just don't want "undeserving" people to get access to them and those undeserving people are all people of color.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

This is your assumption. It is also your assumption that they wouldn't going forward. It is also your assumption that voters under 45 are as bigoted as the older folk. We don't need the racist fringe to join our side, but we do need the backing of workers to take back the country from the reigns of the oligarchs. The workers were solidly behind Bernie in a head-to-head matchup against Trump, which defies your myopic world view that everything is judged based on race.

Yes. White flight is not a real thing nor is housing segregation. Never was. Lower class blacks get the red carpet treatment in predominantly white towns in the rust belt.

Where were these aisle reaching rural whites a generation ago when MLK was going to bat for poor people? Did they support the Black Panthers, who were looking out for their economic interests as well? Learn about your country more.

 

[War Peaceman]

This is your assumption. It is also your assumption that they wouldn't going forward. It is also your assumption that voters under 45 are as bigoted as the older folk. We don't need the racist fringe to join our side, but we do need the backing of workers to take back the country from the reigns of the oligarchs. The workers were solidly behind Bernie in a head-to-head matchup against Trump, which defies your myopic world view that everything is judged based on race.

Presumably you have stats and data to disagree with the study in the OP? because your opinion is worthless in the face of that data.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Could it be that conservatives hate welfare on the principle of not paying for someone else's perceived laziness? that conservatives value individual drive and self-reliance over getting hand-outs? that they view this as the most inherent "American" thing since the days of Plymouth rock? perhaps it has little to do with race?

Rural white counties are the biggest recipients of welfare. It is well documented that when whites are on welfare, they still consider themselves hard workers who are in a temporary rut or just needing help until they find employment. These same people though, automatically assume blacks and latinos are abusing the system when they use welfare.

And rural white conservatives love the fuck out of the party of corporate welfare. They are overdosing on cognitive dissonance and making the country worse off.

 

[R0ckman]

Rural white counties are the biggest recipients of welfare. It is well documented that when whites are on welfare, they still consider themselves hard workers who are in a temporary rut or just needing help until they find employment. These same people though, automatically assume blacks and latinos are abusing the system when they use welfare.

And rural white conservatives love the fuck out of the party of corporate welfare. They are overdosing on cognitive dissonance and making the country worse off.

EXCELLENT post. Particularly bolded part, I have notice that this is a major issue.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Rural white counties are the biggest recipients of welfare.

Pointing out that there are more whites on welfare than non-whites is trivial given that whites make up a majority of the population. And pointing out outlier counties like the one in KY is even more trivial.

 

[Platinumstorm]

This is a better breakdown of the same data than the WaPo article.

http://www.demos.org/blog/4/13/17/how-racism-helped-trump-halts-progressive-policy

Why is it better? It actually addresses the largest xenophobic targets of the Trump campaign [Mexican undocumented immigrants, and Muslims from anywhere. It even separates black Americans from Black Lives Matter; the latter being a major target of alt-right. It shows that BLM scores consistently lower for all three voter types listed, despite BLM being made up of a multi-racial influence. Why? I would venture to guess because of the alt-right campaign that pitted the BLM vs patriotism, which is now channeled through the "Blue Lives Matters". [Disclaimer: I do think police life matter too, but I won't deny that it's an alt-right product meant to discredit Black Lives Matter]. Edit: There is even a large dip in Sec. Clinton voters for undocumented immigrants, which may channel some of the globalization xenophobia influence that pushed both parties to more populist stances.

That is what propoganda and advertising influences. If it didn't work, it wouldn't exist. It reflects again, back at what I originally said regarding the ACA. The removal of propaganda forces, the realization of what stripping the ACA actually meant for voters, rather than just in digestible sound bites made the support for ACA skyrocket compared to the campaign.

Next: White views on how government treats white vs black citizens.

This is a much more clear cut trend that highlights racist beliefs; no one is going to dispute that racists vote for Trump. The bigger question is what percentage of Trump voters are racist to the point where we consider it meaningful on the spectrum. You can slice information from this graph in multiple ways and have have a strong argument. I think the idea that the government treats black citizens better vs white citizens is laughable. The entire tax code disputes that idea based on economic class alone. If you have an identical white person vs an identical black person, the government won't provide preference to my knowledge.

Employment struggle by race, as viewed by white voters:

Again, we have a very skewed look that shows Trump voters are more likely to have the view that being non-white is a workplace advantage [lol]. This is actually a very interesting result, when you look at the Trump [more consistent GOP voters] vs Obama to Trump [possibly less consistent party voters].
I actually really wish that there was an additional graph that showed white voter views on employers hiring black employees vs white employees, as well as one for latino/a; one for H-1B visas would be interesting as well.

Why? Because that would highlight that crossover between campaign propaganda, and advertising propaganda, vs racism to a better degree than this graph does by itself. That message is one that resonated with Trump voters, that looked for globalism as a boogieman, and that created the xenophobic fear from the first chart. The Obama to Trump ratio crossover is highly correlated in this graph, which indicates to me that the xenophobic and nationalist campaign messages were highly effective for white crossover voters. If you add the first two categories together, crossover votes are more highly represented here than non-crossover votes. I chose to add them because extremely category is likely less significant between crossover vs non-crossover voters.


This final graph is well explained in how it was plotted compared to the WaPo author analysis.

The mean score on the explicit racism scale for whites was 0.38. The mean score for white Trump voters was 0.49 and for Clinton voters 0.23. The chart below shows predicted white support for higher government spending and services on a scale that runs from 1 (many more services and spending) to 0 (many fewer services and spending). The regression controls for age, gender, ideology, party identification, education, income and economic peril. Beliefs that the government favors black people over whites predict lower support for government social spending.

McElwee's conclusion is as follows:

It's increasingly difficult to deny the fact that racism played a key role in the 2016 Presidential election. Donald Trump benefited from existing trends of polarization along racial attitudes and also propelled those trends forward. Racism limits support for progressive policy and makes it more difficult [for] progressives to build support among whites for government intervention.

I agree with the majority of this conclusion. I vary a bit from some comments he had in a salon article, because if xenophobia and racism both play into economic viewpoints, then xenophobia and racism are both economic issues in the form of economic anxiety [different from economic stress]. It sounds stupid, because it is.

His conclusion plays exactly into the reason why non-white economic justice has to be bundled together with white economic justice in an effective package. It doesn't make racism right, and it doesn't make tolerating racism necessary, nor does it even mean you cater to people who harbor racist or ethnist tendencies. Channeling the xenophobic fear into an anger or call for change rightly attributed to corporate ethics, and plutocracy is the goal post for a successful campaign over the next 2/4 year cycle, and would likely reduce xenophobic and racist expression as well; because it rightfully attributes fear and economic anxiety to a proper entity; when right now it's improperly being channeled into "the unknown non-white person". President Trump channeled fear throughout his campaign, and into his presidency. President Bush perhaps said it best reportedly replying regarding Trump's inauguration as , "Some weird s***".

Note: The graph Pigeon posted a bit above this post makes for an excellent argument towards xenophobia's influence on this election for crossover voters.

Edit: 4/20/17 Additional Thoughts

I wanted to make one additional finding I realized while thinking about this analysis. The author's findings state "Beliefs that the government favors black people over whites predict lower support for government social spending." The only reason I want to bring this up again is to consider the crossover voters from Obama to Trump. 20% of the crossover voters believe white citizens are treated better by the government than black citizens. Roughly 25% of the crossover voters believed that black citizens are treated better than white citizens. 75% of those crossover voters do not subscribe to the conclusion that black citizens are treated better than white citizens. Given McElwee's findings and drawn conclusions, and the very evident information I just presented, you must consider alternative explanations, and a likely explanation is the xenophobic campaign; which one can argue, with the exception of perhaps Somali refugees, is largely disjointed from the idea against racism against black skin, and again, geared more towards undocumented immigrants for economic woes, and Muslim ethnicity from anywhere for security woes. Clearly there is more to it than just racism.

 

[Angelus Errare]

nvm, I'll let it cook.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Do you hold Clinton to the same standard, when she actually championed the aspect of the Crime bill that targeted black people? Did you look the other way when it was her (or did you simply assume that a Clinton was better for black people just because?) Bernie was clamoring for criminal justice reform in the next breath after economic injustice... while Clinton was still taking money from the private prison lobby.

Of course you would pull try to pull your same bs and pull this back to Hilary again instead addressing the fact that the person you worship is very capable and has screwed over people before because of politics. Unlike you I am not worshiping people who have faults treating them like they are infallible. I could have cared less who won between Bernie or Hilary because in the end the party's platform would have been pretty much the same. I would have voted for either of them. The reality of the matter is if Hilary or Bernie would have won everything would still have been pretty much gridlocked because republicans in congress are pretty much only interested in being obstructionists even to their own party.

 

[Dai101]

You are talking about alot of states that voted Obama twice.

Acting as if these millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE that either voted Trump or not at all suddenly became klan members that wish I was hanging from a tree is absurd and incredibly lazy.

Not to mention the vast majority of racism in this country lies somewhere on a spectrum.

You don't need to be a kkk member to be a racist son of a bitch. Most of the racism in america is subtle, is coded, using dog whistle to express it.

 

[Jmanunknown]

You are talking about alot of states that voted Obama twice.

Acting as if these millions of people who voted for Obama TWICE that either voted Trump or not at all suddenly became klan members that wish I was hanging from a tree is absurd and incredibly lazy.

Not to mention the vast majority of racism in this country lies somewhere on a spectrum.

Why do people like yourself continually ignore that Donald Trump is literally the most xenophobic,sexist, racist legitimate presidential candidate and president in modern history and that is saying a lot considering Ronald Regan was against the voting rights act, equal rights amendment, and civil rights act. I mean we have the numbers that show every other race of people in the election literally voted overwhelmingly for the democratic candidate. While a majority of white people voted for Donald Trump. What does that say when taken at face value?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Why do people like yourself continually ignore that Donald Trump is literally the most xenophobic,sexist, racist legitimate presidential candidate and president in modern history and that is saying a lot considering Ronald Regan was against the voting rights act, equal rights amendment, and civil rights act. I mean we have the numbers that show every other race of people in the election literally voted overwhelmingly for the democratic candidate. While a majority of white people voted for Donald Trump. What does that say when taken at face value?

Because it's a convenient feel good narrative because they can't possibly consider the idea that people who voted for a black man for President could still harbor racist and bigoted views. It's akin to people who think racism was over after Obama. Apparently if you support a black guy it means it's not possible for you to be racist anymore

 

[rjinaz]

You don't need to be a kkk member to be a racist son of a bitch. Most of the racism in america is subtle, is coded, using dog whistle to express it.

Yup. White folks hate being called racist. It's worse than actual racism.

Most racist people don't actually think of themselves as racist, they actually hate the idea of that label. But, they are the types of people that you'll hear them say racist things all the time they just don't think it is racist. "I'm not racist but..." followed by some stereotype. They continue to vote for Republicans that harm minorities and if you ask them, they'll tell you something like "they need to stop being lazy, I'm successful why aren't they".

Racism as it exists in America today is very subtle, it is not in your face mostly. They vote for Obama to show they are not racist or even to convince themselves of that but they never stop to think about the racist thoughts they have about people that are different from them.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Yup. White folks hate being called racist. It's worse than actual racism.

Most racist people don't actually think of themselves as racist, they actually hate the idea of that label. But, they are the types of people that you'll hear them say racist things all the time they just don't think it is racist. "I'm not racist but..." followed by some stereotype. They continue to vote for Republicans that harm minorities and if you ask them, they'll tell you something like "they need to stop being lazy, I'm successful why aren't they".

Racism as it exists in America today is very subtle, it is not in your face mostly. They vote for Obama to show they are not racist or even to convince themselves of that but they never stop to think about the racist thoughts they have about people that are different from them.

I don't even think it's that subtle. A lot of people out there are just in denial about the problem. Especially white men.

 

[pigeon]

It's actually almost kinda cute for people to cling to this whitewashed "Pilgrims bravely surviving the winter to prosper" bullshit but my god it is so laughably naive and ignorant and we are so fucking far from that now that to even invoke that is baffling and fucking hilarious. Who gives a fuck about Plymouth in the context of our modern social and economic Anerican landscape? Only a fool.

Pilgrims only survived the winter because the Native Americans gave them welfare payments in the form of food and corn-related retraining programs, because of their moral responsibility to help those in need.

We literally have an entire holiday commemorating it.

 

[rjinaz]

I don't even think it's that subtle. A lot of people out there are just in denial about the problem. Especially white men.

Well I think that racism for White America has become an absolute term. In order to be a racist, you have to hate Black people (example) or use the N word. So if they don't think that way, then they "know" they are not racist and that stops any kind of critical thinking on their part on how they might believe stereotypes and ignore institutional racism as it occurs. It also leads to a lack of empathy towards their plight and discrimination because in their mind, there is none.

It's denial, it's ignorance, it's apathy and a lack of critical thinking. It's a huge problem and as King said, likely a bigger problem than the klansmen will ever be.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

This is bullshit because those same white Americans will reject policies if they imagine they they benefit people other then them. Even if that same policy benefits them disproportionately!

See Obamacare

The great uniter is not entitlement enhancements (although that is another very important piece of the puzzle ultimately). It is the bolstering of the economy and creation of new jobs, but very importantly, in the areas we should target for future growth: high tech industries outside of the computing and telecom industries, most notably pertaining to sustainable/renewable energy/batteries/fuels/etc., the physical infrastructure which would enable those energy sources' utilization, and the updating of existing technologies where necessary to leverage these new energy sources.

Investing a trillion or more dollars in updating the outmoded infrastructure of America alone would go very far to accomplish this.

 

[R0ckman]

Yup. White folks hate being called racist. It's worse than actual racism.

Most racist people don't actually think of themselves as racist, they actually hate the idea of that label. But, they are the types of people that you'll hear them say racist things all the time they just don't think it is racist. "I'm not racist but..." followed by some stereotype. They continue to vote for Republicans that harm minorities and if you ask them, they'll tell you something like "they need to stop being lazy, I'm successful why aren't they".

Racism as it exists in America today is very subtle, it is not in your face mostly. They vote for Obama to show they are not racist or even to convince themselves of that but they never stop to think about the racist thoughts they have about people that are different from them.

Its not that they don't think of themselves as racist. They simply don't want the label. Does a crook want to go to jail? Most humans who hate self-reflection do not like labels that imply they need to make changes. I had a girlfriend who flipped her lid when I casually called her a gossip, to me it was so obvious that I thought she didn't mind the label and simply had no shame.

 

[EatinOlives]

This is bullshit because those same white Americans will reject policies if they imagine they they benefit people other then them. Even if that same policy benefits them disproportionately!

See Obamacare

Exactly. Conservative Americans despise the concept of social programs helping anyone, while at the same time fighting for social programs that help them because "they need that". There's a very clear disconnect between the high-level idea of social programs (which they hate), and actual and real social programs that directly benefit them (which they love and fight for).

The white working class has absolutely no qualms about being pure hypocrites. They don't, never have, and never will see themselves as equals with the black working class, latino working class, etc. This idea that by appealing to the white working class we're also getting a bundle deal in advancing the minority working class is a complete myth. It has never happened and never will.

 

[DangerMouse]

Shocked, well not that shocked.gif

I'm tired of hearing about economics in regards to this election because no one has been able to explain the disparity in voting patterns between poor white and non-white voters (whites aren't the only ones who suffer from wealth inequality- shocker,) nor the fact that rich white people voted for Trump in droves.

It was racism that motivated such a moral failure of a vote, even if people don't want to admit it.

This.

Exactly. Conservative Americans despise the concept of social programs helping anyone, while at the same time fighting for social programs that help them because "they need that". There's a very clear disconnect between the high-level idea of social programs (which they hate), and actual and real social programs that directly benefit them (which they love and fight for).

The white working class has absolutely no qualms about being pure hypocrites. They don't, never have, and never will see themselves as equals with the black working class, latino working class, etc. This idea that by appealing to the white working class we're also getting a bundle deal in advancing the minority working class is a complete myth. It has never happened and never will.

This, just like the rich ones, the non-rich Republican voters always vote against support systems that those very voters are fucking using and desperately need themselves, like morons.