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[Slayven]

Do you seriously know no one who voted for Trump solely based on abortion positions? You are doing a disservice to yourself simplifying the argument based on reactionary politics.

"Trump is racist, but I do hate women having health services. I will hold my nose, and vote for him"

 

[Platinumstorm]

"Trump is racist, but I do hate women having health services. I will hold my nose, and vote for him"

The abortion argument is based on two separate moral standards. No one is wrong, and no one is right on it. It's a wedge issue, and it's toxic for the party that supports the pro-choice candidates.

 

[Not]

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/02/26/about-that-obama-sneeze/#comments

You can really tell that King Obama doesn't care about anyone but himself

I like that exact same trait in Trump though

It's a wedge issue, and it's toxic for the party that supports the pro-choice candidates.

And that's why they artificially focus on it so hard. It's so fucking brilliantly evil. No conversation about women's agency without killin' babies

 

[crackhead_bob]

"Trump is racist, but I do hate women having health services. I will hold my nose, and vote for him"

How isn't that in of itself not an example of identity politics? We as progressives are constantly being told to shed identity politics for the greater good, but somehow we're expected to treat those who are prolife with kid gloves? What the fuck is that? Values voters are just as guilty of pulling this shit as people on the left they're complaining about.

 

[Slayven]

The abortion argument is based on two separate moral standards. No one is wrong, and no one is right on it. It's a wedge issue, and it's toxic for the party that supports the pro-choice candidates.

Yes there is when one side hammers home their point by tearing apart basic health services to get their agenda across

 

[crackhead_bob]

The abortion argument is based on two separate moral standards. No one is wrong, and no one is right on it. It's a wedge issue, and it's toxic for the party that supports the pro-choice candidates.

And trivializing rape pregnancies is a winning position to hold? Okay. I gotcha.

 

[guek]

Ferguson riots were what, mid to late 2014?

BLM had appeared and Obama had made his comments on Trayvon almost a year earlier. Right around when his approval rating started to dive.

I'm guessing Ferguson didn't help, but the horse had bolted by that point.

It's crazy to think about how much people continuing to murder black people changed race relations in this country. Whether you believe there is systematic racism or just a few bad apples *cough*bullshit*cough*, it's hard to deny how much the actions of a relatively few dramatically changed race relations.

 

[Slayven]

How isn't that in of itself not an example of identity politics? We as progressives are constantly being told to shed identity politics for the greater good, but somehow we're expected to treat those who are prolife with kid gloves? What the fuck is that? Values voters are just as guilty of pulling this shit as people on the left they're complaining about.

Fuck anyone that rails on identity politics but doesn't acknowledge the white idenity won the election. Make America Great Again and Law & Order, there is a reason David Duke got a chubby every time Trump said that shit

 

[Fancyarcher]

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

 

[EdibleKnife]

I am more of the idea that the Ferguson riots pushed people into more of a race mindset, and it took until this year to definitively say that the Martin situation was handled terribly; and the coverage of the aftermath from it isn't really being done well.

I feel the reception to this would have been different if the movement had started after Eric Garner and didn't involve the obscene and unnecessary riots. As someone in medicine, the blocking of roads for EMS response is something that bugged me a lot.
.

I'm so sick of this bullshit mindset. The reaction to BLM would not have been different no matter where it started because too much of this country either doesn't care about or actively seek damage to minorities. Stating that it's BLMs fault that they didn't time themselves correctly to get maximum sympathy is completely disingenuous and ignores the reality of black subjugation and systematic racism within the US's history. Eric Garner still died due to police brutality and BLM was a movement to change that. If they didn't choose to join or support the movement all that Ferguson did was provide a convenient excuse to justify their apathy or derision for black peoples seeking an end to government and law enforcement led destruction, abuse and murder of citizens

 

[Brinbe]

Hey, maybe y'all should listen to what minorities have been saying for six months now? And hopefully this shuts down that stupid fucking economic anxiety bullshit that idiots have been peddling since the election. But nah, probably not. Because not all Trump voters, am I right? And the other really racist ones just have to be talked to and reasoned with! That'll do it.

And I don't get that this is moderates that have been doing this. Most minorities backed HRC, the more 'moderate' candidate. I think people have it confused. Hasn't it been Sanders supporters who have been making that economic anxiety case? Aren't they the supposedly more progressive wing of the party with all that purity test BS?

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Sure, and again, there's no way I could justify the decision to turn a blind eye to those suffering, but I understand WHY people such as my family members cling to that mindset; they're comfortable in the religious culture that benefits them. Because at the end of the day it's a welcome and necessary reprieve for their own pain. My mom specifically lost her dad in Vietnam when she was 11 and her husband to cancer when she was 35. She worked for Campus Crusade for Christ her whole life and raised donations from other people in the organization (which allowed her to be paid for being a stay-at-home-mom of 5 kids) and now follows Breitbart and Infowars. Her only frame of reference for suffering is her own (and can you blame her), and she thinks that cure-- fundamental Christianity-- can be applied to every other person's brand of pain with little adjustment, because it's too hard to accept that after what she's gone through she's actually had it better than if she wasn't white, straight, and Christian.

Shit's complicated. Of course white people are awful as a whole and have constantly refused to own up to their delusions and selfishness. But I don't have to forego all my empathy whatsoever for anyone who suffers from a delusion rather than the people who consciously give into their greed, malice, and desire for power (i.e., the people who manipulate said sufferers.)

Out of curiosity have you ever attempted reaching her or is it a foregone conclusion?

 

[Angelus Errare]

How isn't that in of itself not an example of identity politics? We as progressives are constantly being told to shed identity politics for the greater good, but somehow we're expected to treat those who are prolife with kid gloves? What the fuck is that? Values voters are just as guilty of pulling this shit as people on the left they're complaining about.

When people say "get rid of identity politics" what they're saying is "get rid of it for everyone not white and male"

I am more of the idea that the Ferguson riots pushed people into more of a race mindset, and it took until this year to definitively say that the Martin situation was handled terribly; and the coverage of the aftermath from it isn't really being done well.

I feel the reception to this would have been different if the movement had started after Eric Garner and didn't involve the obscene and unnecessary riots. As someone in medicine, the blocking of roads for EMS response is something that bugged me a lot.

Obama did fail to provide guidance to anyone during this situation, and I found it really awkward that he stumbled during this domestic crisis. He certainly didn't take a position that was wrong, but he also didn't take a position that benefited the country. It left him open to the attack that Obama "worsened race relations," with no proof behind it.

I had wanted to write about this earlier, because when people are asked those questions in that survey, the events that unfolded around the BLM uprising certainly affacted the answers to those questions for people. Again, however, the trend for both Republicans and Democrats from that study was that white members of both parties were less racist in this election compared to 2012.

So it's whitelash like MLK all over again? What you're saying is that in 70 years white folks will talk fondly about how amazing BLM was and how it "transcended race" and other whitewashed nonsense?

Oh joy.

 

[EdibleKnife]

The abortion argument is based on two separate moral standards. No one is wrong, and no one is right on it. It's a wedge issue, and it's toxic for the party that supports the pro-choice candidates.

Yes there are people that are wrong. From the standpoint of science to the fact that government support of Planned Parenthood goes to women and general sexual and reproductive health and not abortion. It is not simply a moral argument there are people that are factually wrong and obfuscate the truth on the side of anti-choice

 

[HStallion]

And by their logic, everyone who voted for Hillary was fine with murdering infants. Why bother looking any closer at the issues? Trump = babies live, Hillary = babies die. Babies of all races!

Every party has a magic trick for turning literally everyone else into a monster. The key is to shut down all thought so they don't have to try to win your vote, just make you terrified of the Other Side. "Sure, this Trump guy says dumb shit sometimes, but Hillary literally wants an infant Holocaust via abortion and to push policies that will encourage more black-on-black crime. Who's the REAL racist?!?!?!"

But I get it - it feels great to feel ultimate superiority over others, to just imagine their minds are nothing but pure, black evil. The moment you start to look even a tiny bit closer at their position, shut it down. Shut down all thought. We're good. They're bad. Plain and simple.

I'm sorry man but Trump was so up front about his ugly rhetoric in nearly every facet of his campaign from day fucking 1 it was impossible to ignore or miss or not take as a big part of everything that he was. I don't let people off for ignoring that or brushing it off as something less than it was. I'm not saying these people should be tarred and feathered or dragged into the streets and be made an example of. I simply say I no longer want or desire their help and if they want to keep wallowing in the filth, don't expect me to jump in and get dirty just to get rebuffed yet again over things like human decency and common fucking sense. You're free to try but don't expect me to waste my time.

 

[Platinumstorm]

Ferguson riots were what, mid to late 2014?

BLM had appeared and Obama had made his comments on Trayvon almost a year earlier. Right around when his approval rating started to dive.

I'm guessing Ferguson didn't help, but the horse had bolted by that point.

To go a bit further on it, I think the Ferguson riots caused fear. It showed damage to establishments, and damage to order. There is plenty of footage showing hatred and racism towards white journalists, police and cameramen, and there was hatred and accusations of race betrayal for black journalists, police, and cameramen. That stuff spread, and people saw it.

None of that was good for the BLM cause, and none of that was good for "race relations," and all of that was on film. That got circulated by alt-right people hardcore.

 

[Not]

Out of curiosity have you ever attempted reaching her or is it a foregone conclusion?

Pushing age 60. Having not remarried, I don't think she's coming around on there not being a heaven where her dead husband isn't there waiting for her.

The shitty part is religion comes with the whole shebang in America. You apparently can't be a white Christian without believing everything a Republican leader tells you.

 

[Platinumstorm]

You can really tell that King Obama doesn't care about anyone but himself

I like that exact same trait in Trump though



And that's why they artificially focus on it so hard. It's so fucking brilliantly evil. No conversation about women's agency without killin' babies

You are 100% correct. They have the backing of the religious movement, and despite all of the things that Trump did in his personal life, that single position, combined with the nomination of Pence was enough for him to be portrayed in the "flawed messenger of God" light.

 

[Platinumstorm]

And trivializing rape pregnancies is a winning position to hold? Okay. I gotcha.

Yeah, two separate moral value sets. You're only going to agree with one of them. That's what defines it as the most pure wedge issue.

 

[hey_monkey]

In order to not be making things up based on emotion, yes, data is important.

I love data. But in this case, is it important? Is it really? Will this data make any difference at all? Will it change anyone's mind? This is where the old saws re: pure logic are failing us all, because clearly, pure science/data/logic ain't doing the job. And we need to get with that.

To go a bit further on it, I think the Ferguson riots caused fear. It showed damage to establishments, and damage to order. There is plenty of footage showing hatred and racism towards white journalists, police and cameramen, and there was hatred and accusations of race betrayal for black journalists, police, and cameramen. That stuff spread, and people saw it.

None of that was good for the BLM cause, and none of that was good for "race relations," and all of that was on film. That got circulated by alt-right people hardcore.

Dude.

There is so much wrong with all of this that I'm just... all I'm gonna say is this. All that was bad for "the BLM" cause (with the people you're talking about, who'd have never supported any of it anyway) was spin. Just spin. It didn't cause fear. Folks played on fear.

 

[danm999]

To go a bit further on it, I think the Ferguson riots caused fear. It showed damage to establishments, and damage to order. There is plenty of footage showing hatred and racism towards white journalists, police and cameramen, and there was hatred and accusations of race betrayal for black journalists, police, and cameramen. That stuff spread, and people saw it.

None of that was good for the BLM cause, and none of that was good for "race relations," and all of that was on film. That got circulated by alt-right people hardcore.

There was plenty of horrific footage of officers straight up murdering people that was widely publicized though before Ferguson.

If it took seeing black people damaging establishments or disrupting order or whatever for a subset of white America to lose its collective shit, I question how "not racist" they truly were.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Pushing age 60. Having not remarried, I don't think she's coming around on there not being a heaven where her dead husband isn't there waiting for her.

The shitty part is religion comes with the whole shebang in America. You apparently can't be a white Christian without believing everything a Republican leader tells you.

"The most segregated time in America is high noon on a Sunday" - Malcolm X.

I agree. The marriage of white Christianity and Republicanism is a strange one. Especially since the party proudly flaunts how unChristlike they can be.

 

[Platinumstorm]

I'm so sick of this bullshit mindset. The reaction to BLM would not have been different no matter where it started because too much of this country either doesn't care about or actively seek damage to minorities. Stating that it's BLMs fault that they didn't time themselves correctly to get maximum sympathy is completely disingenuous and ignores the reality of black subjugation and systematic racism within the US's history. Eric Garner still died due to police brutality and BLM was a movement to change that. If they didn't choose to join or support the movement all that Ferguson did was provide a convenient excuse to justify their apathy or derision for black peoples seeking an end to government and law enforcement led destruction, abuse and murder of citizens

Yeah. I agree with you. It still would have been viewed negatively. But you're free to take that out on me if you feel I'm the person who is hurting the cause of black liberty.

I will have a slightly different opinion because Treyvon Martin got associated with mild drug possession crap, and got slandered through the mud as a "thug". Frankly, everything about the initial reporting of Martin's case was basically wrong and misreported, and the media isn't going back to correct it with everything going on in Trump land. Martin's case has everything the BLM needs to prove to be effective, but there were so many missteps along the way that it dismissed its credibility, just like Occupy Wallstreet did.

The case to slander Eric Gardner was close to zero, and that's why I feel a BLM movement that wouldn't have had the Ferguson riots would have been better received, but still negatively. He is a poster-example of police over-use of force, just like the individual that was assaulted jay-walking.

I disagree entirely with you, that the BLM wouldn't have been treated with you the same way if the Ferguson riots never happened. The Ferguson riots caused fear and distrust for people. Once you do that, you're setting up a recipe for completely ineffective messages.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I love data. But in this case, is it important? Is it really? Will this data make any difference at all? Will it change anyone's mind? This is where the old saws re: pure logic are failing us all, because clearly, pure science/data/logic ain't doing the job. And we need to get with that.



Dude.

There is so much wrong with all of this that I'm just... all I'm gonna say is this. All that was bad for "the BLM" cause (with the people you're talking about, who'd have never supported any of it anyway) was spin. Just spin. It didn't cause fear. Folks played on fear.

Yes? Why is it whenever racism is the root cause people always try and downplay it and are always thinking of the racists and their feelings? The first step to combating and dealing with racism, both on an individual and systemic level, both of the overt and casual variety is to ADMIT its a problem. And actually admit it. Not try and downplay it or sugarcoat it or excuse it, like so many people often try to do because its uncomfortable and sounds confrontational. All these efforts to try and make appeals to feelings and dumb shit like that are how it's become so normalized. You don't see Germany allowing holocaust denial and antisemitism as rational "alternate" viewpoints to be friendly addressed, so why do we treat racism any differently?

 

[Platinumstorm]

When people say "get rid of identity politics" what they're saying is "get rid of it for everyone not white and male"



So it's whitelash like MLK all over again? What you're saying is that in 70 years white folks will talk fondly about how amazing BLM was and how it "transcended race" and other whitewashed nonsense?

Oh joy.

I can't look that far forward into the future, so I can't tell you that you're wrong. If you can, you're a wiser person than me. All I can answer to you is that the inference that you took from what I wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote.

What I tried to bring across is that the negative reaction by white voters to BLM, and the Ferguson riots, would have come across in the answers to those question asked during the study. I made no further statement past that.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Yeah. I agree with you. It still would have been viewed negatively. But you're free to take that out on me if you feel I'm the person who is hurting the cause of black liberty.

I will have a slightly different opinion because Treyvon Martin got associated with mild drug possession crap, and got slandered through the mud as a "thug". Frankly, everything about the initial reporting of Martin's case was basically wrong and misreported, and the media isn't going back to correct it with everything going on in Trump land. Martin's case has everything the BLM needs to prove to be effective, but there were so many missteps along the way that it dismissed its credibility, just like Occupy Wallstreet did.

The case to slander Eric Gardner was close to zero, and that's why I feel a BLM movement that wouldn't have had the Ferguson riots would have been better received, but still negatively. He is a poster-example of police over-use of force, just like the individual that was assaulted jay-walking.

I disagree entirely with you, that the BLM wouldn't have been treated with you the same way if the Ferguson riots never happened. The Ferguson riots caused fear and distrust for people. Once you do that, you're setting up a recipe for completely ineffective messages.

I don't think it makes a difference for Americans, they will always find an excuse to engage in anti-Black behavior. Any riots is not the fault of BLM. Americans have a fear and distrust of Black skin.

 

[Platinumstorm]

I love data. But in this case, is it important? Is it really? Will this data make any difference at all? Will it change anyone's mind? This is where the old saws re: pure logic are failing us all, because clearly, pure science/data/logic ain't doing the job. And we need to get with that.



Dude.

There is so much wrong with all of this that I'm just... all I'm gonna say is this. All that was bad for "the BLM" cause (with the people you're talking about, who'd have never supported any of it anyway) was spin. Just spin. It didn't cause fear. Folks played on fear.

I'd be happy for you to tell me how what I said was wrong. I'm very open to it.

I agree with you that there is a section of people, even a significant section of people, who would never be open to to the civil rights movement of BLM. I agree with you that much of it was spin, but it was spin that reached people to a broader degree than it would have otherwise. You even say that folks play on fear, and that's what alt-right and racist groups [synonymous crossover not disregarded] did. They played on the fears caused by the riots.

Riots cause fear. The news crews in the footage from different events were afraid. The business owners whose businesses destroyed, despite them having nothing to do with the it were very afraid, and very upset.

Let's not forget the other part, where black citizens are afraid of police because of the countless examples of the unlawful assaults that have happened to them, and frankly even the CHANCE that they might be suspected of something they have nothing to do with; that we can point out over and over and over.

 

[digdug2k]

Yes there is when one side hammers home their point by tearing apart basic health services to get their agenda across

One side literally believes babies are being ground up inside vacuums. Democrats can argue for both sides here. I.e. minimizing abortions by providing better woman's health. They don't. Thry just scream "women's health". To do so they'd have to say things like "I hate that abortions happen. I want to end them" Instead, they GOP fills these people's heads with insanely sick imagery and just prays for the days a little tiny bit of it inevitably turns up true.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Thread reminds me of this guy I was talking to at work the other day.

He was dismissing minority problems as "everything is equal" and "put your nose down and work hard and everything will be okay".

He then ends it with "Why is everything about color, why can't black people get over racism."

Not realizing that HE is the one with the problem.

He can't talk about race without going #Notallwhitepeople or feeling uncomfortable.
He dismisses minority issues in favor of everything being equal between people.
He thinks minorities have a problem with race and that he's color blind and treats everyone equally. But yet he's so willing to say that he's not attracted to any black woman, as if he didn't learn to think like that from society.

Lol. So many people like this and there's nothing that you can do.

 

[Platinumstorm]

Yes there are people that are wrong. From the standpoint of science to the fact that government support of Planned Parenthood goes to women and general sexual and reproductive health and not abortion. It is not simply a moral argument there are people that are factually wrong and obfuscate the truth on the side of anti-choice

I think you're conflating abortion as a wedge issue at large, versus the issue planned parenthood funding, which is obviously tied up with the abortion issue. You're 100% correct in that none of it goes to PP abortions. The truth is not just obfuscated, but discarded because the anti-abortion crowd wants a feelgood on it.

 

[The Kree]

When people say "get rid of identity politics" what they're saying is "get rid of it for everyone not white and male"



So it's whitelash like MLK all over again? What you're saying is that in 70 years white folks will talk fondly about how amazing BLM was and how it "transcended race" and other whitewashed nonsense?

Oh joy.

That's what every generation of white people does. They pretend their parent's already atoned for America's past racial injustices so they never have to confront themselves about it.

White supremacy is like judgement day in the Terminator movies. You can't stop it, you can only try to survive it. It's unbeatable.

 

[Platinumstorm]

I don't think it makes a difference for Americans, they will always find an excuse to engage in anti-Black behavior. Any riots is not the fault of BLM. Americans have a fear and distrust of Black skin.

Black movements will also always be held to an unfair higher standard as well. We've all seen the "Hail, Trump, nazi salute" footage, and people just brush that aside. Even to this day people won't brush aside the Ferguson riots and separate it from BLM.

I struggle to write to effectively separate BLM from the Ferguson riots. It's quite hard without going into a several paragraph tangent, and frankly I wouldn't know where to start to give anyone proof to separate them, other than pointing to all of the other BLM protests that didn't involve violence. When you do that, someone will point out that they block the roads so EMS can't go through. I have no counter for that.

 

[weekev]

It still irks me that Hillary didn't double down on calling all Trump supporters deplorable.

 

[The Kree]

It still irks me that Hillary didn't double down on calling all Trump supporters deplorable.

You're only allowed to double down on racism, sexism, and homophobia. You can't actually call bigots bigots because that's worse than actual bigotry.

 

[Slayven]

One side literally believes babies are being ground up inside vacuums. Democrats can argue for both sides here. I.e. minimizing abortions by providing better woman's health. They don't. Thry just scream "women's health". To do so they'd have to say things like "I hate that abortions happen. I want to end them" Instead, they GOP fills these people's heads with insanely sick imagery and just prays for the days a little tiny bit of it inevitably turns up true.

They do, they are for cheap and easily available contraceptives. But the Hobby Lobby and the GOP don't want employer's insurance to cover them

And they are directly responsible for the death of the clinic employees

 

[Frozenprince]

It's almost comical how much fucking effort we have to put into this shit to avoid ever dealing with the gaping wound of racial resentment in this country.

Every thread we have here about this shit is the exact same.

"Man racism was probably the primary factor" "Shut up we got other issues to talk about". Cherry picking "the tolerant left" quotes, talking about every and any issue under the sun. To avoid the immutable and unalterable truth.

That America is a profoundly racist nation built on profoundly racist systems.

 

[KevinRo]

This data suggests that white republicans have staid nearly the same.. they have even gravitated to 'neither agree or disagree' on these scales.

I'm sorry, but this 'symbolic racism scale' is bullshit and everyone in this thread didn't understand the data along with the author.

 

[Slayven]

This data suggests that white republicans have staid nearly the same.. they have even gravitated to 'neither agree or disagree' on these scales.

I'm sorry, but this 'symbolic racism scale' is bullshit and everyone in this thread didn't understand the data along with the author.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

"White republicans stayed the same" IE pretty fucking racist.

No one said shit got more racist, just that they stopped dog whistling.

 

[benjipwns]

So a few things to note.

While this is indeed a study and shows study results. The article is a commentary analysis. A lot of people are responding to this and not recognizing that it is a commentary analysis. When you read the WaPo article, you can't even begin to understand how the study was conducted, or what the answers to that question means, because it's not reporting on the study, it's analyzing results and framing a narrative. They're literally numbers floating in a graph that don't have any explanation. For the racism related questions, you have this flow chart with a 4.2 and a 4.3. I can't tell you what those numbers mean, and while there is an implied association by color, there isn't even a freaking key to explain which line means what! All I can tell you is it's on a scale of five, this only involves white voters, I'm not sure of if this means Democratic vs GOP votes, or Trump votes v S. Clinton votes, and I'm not sure if 4.2 is a statistically significant compared to a 4.3.

This commentary really seems like a hot load of garbage. And that's ignoring that fact that the OP is highly misleading in the title when the actual article is "Racism motivated Trump voters more than authoritarianism."

...

This is bad data.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the WaPo here. I don't see anything in the data about racism being a large source of republican's voting for Trump.



The above graph, for instance, doesn't seem to support their argument, which is why I found it weird that they brought it up. What I seen in that graph is a slight decrease in racism indicators compared with 2012, putting it about on par with 2008. Nothing about that suggests there was any correlation between Trump's rhetoric causing people with even less favorable views of minorities than usual to vote.

This data suggests that white republicans have staid nearly the same.. they have even gravitated to 'neither agree or disagree' on these scales.

I'm sorry, but this 'symbolic racism scale' is bullshit and everyone in this thread didn't understand the data along with the author.

Quiet yous, next we'll have to change the thread title to correct for the fact that the ANES didn't conduct this "study" or make any kind of claim (not what they do) or that it's not a "study" but a college professor making three graphs dominated by ordinal variables based off five non-independent tests and trying to make some kind of claim out of it in an article he wrote for a Washington Post blog.

 

[Derwind]

The graphs indicate that the GOP has either stayed the same or gotten worse overall in their perception of race in the last 20 years.

Not that you need a graph to tell you that given how easily neonazi's seem to fold in with the GOP in their rallies.

Racism has always been there, I just don't need to work as hard to spot it anymore.

 

[Derwind]

Quiet yous, next we'll have to change the thread title to correct for the fact that the ANES didn't conduct this "study" or make any kind of claim (not what they do) or that it's not a "study" but a college professor making three graphs dominated by ordinal variables based off five non-independent tests and trying to make some kind of claim out of it in an article he wrote for a Washington Post blog.

Well it's not like any of these "studies" tell us anything we didn't already know.

 

[benjipwns]

Well it's not like any of these "studies" tell us anything we didn't already know.

Quiet yous, next we'll have to shutter the social sciences departments once the racket is figured out.

 

[digdug2k]

They do, they are for cheap and easily available contraceptives. But the Hobby Lobby and the GOP don't want employer's insurance to cover them

And they are directly responsible for the death of the clinic employees

They don't. They argue that abortion is fine if that's what you want, or here's some contraceptives if you want to avoid it. They argue for Choice. It's the platform. I don't even hate it or anything, but this is politics and there are more centrist positions to take.

I dont think a Democrat could run on an "I don't think anyone wants an abortion, and I think we should do everything we can to make a world where they're not required" platform right now.

 

[benjipwns]

I dont think a Democrat could run on an "I don't think anyone wants an abortion, and I think we should do everything we can to make a world where they're not required" platform right now.

What if we phrased it "Safe, legal and rare"?

 

[captjohnboyd]

I have to admit the study read like they didn't really vote racist this year as much as they Always vote racist.

Real question here though; how do we fix it? I mean I have read plenty of quality and real world applicable ideas over the years on combating racism and I'd love to see them implemented but that's entirely different than getting Independents to vote Dem in the next elections.

We lost them, and some Dems to Trump and if THOSE voters were voting race when they didn't usually how do we reach them again?

Because we need to bridge that gap fast...a lot faster than fixing systemic racism takes. I know the party is capable of it because we've done it before but how to go about that now?

 

[Platinumstorm]

I have to admit the study read like they didn't really vote racist this year as much as they Always vote racist.

Real question here though; how do we fix it? I mean I have read plenty of quality and real world applicable ideas over the years on combating racism and I'd love to see them implemented but that's entirely different than getting Independents to vote Dem in the next elections.

We lost them, and some Dems to Trump and if THOSE voters were voting race when they didn't usually how do we reach them again?

Because we need to bridge that gap fast...a lot faster than fixing systemic racism takes. I know the party is capable of it because we've done it before but how to go about that now?

Yeah I have made this argument since immediately after the election. My take is so not push for a liberal tea party or purity test, not get into an urban v rural fight,stop screaming at people that they are racist because they voted for trump. Open the tent up.

Change how the message is delivered without compromising on civil rights. Make sure that everyone is being targeted so there is no doubt that Democrats are representing everyone. A forgotten people shouldn't every have been allowed to exist.

Recognize that the xenophobic stress is caused by plutocratic influences, not by globalism,and teach that to people (liberals need to learn this too). The wh is occupied by a plutocrat who disguised his message as populism and nationalism, with a dose of alt-right nationalism, but has done nothing to help anyone but corporations, with the exception of human trafficking causes. This shouldn't be a hard argument.
Link that plutocrats hurt people of all racial backgrounds, and even be daring enough to link the plights together.
Pounce on the meals on wheels nightmare, especially in local and state races.

Highlight fiscal responsibility as a tenent of democratic ideals.

And for the love of everything focus on how killing tpp, and the wall, hurt agriculture.

Focus on literally everything that trump did to bring back coal jobs didn't bring them back. Focus on how Democrats have local plans to improve communities, and help them transition into the future.
Come up with a future deal to stabilize rural states and repurpose communities, improve urban poverty, improve infrastructure.
Tailor a plan to address the national debt,and put it into an appropriate, non-apocalyptic perspective.
Bring forward the idea of American National Healthcare: a universal system, and highlight its reliability and ease for all. Bring that forward across local state, and national races simultaneously so the idea can propagate naturally before debuting on the 2020 stage.

Anticipate the voter suppression issues ahead of time..... And act appropriately.

The 2 and 4 year cycles need to be about pain and the reminders of who caused it. Just plow it into people's heads. Then show them a party that cares about people at the local level.

 

[pigeon]

Kind of awesome how many people in this thread went straight to "yeah racism is really bad and all but ultimately we want to win elections so maybe let's not talk about it."

Once again, we already did that Democratic Party and it was terrible for people of color. But the guy who did it is still pretty popular, so, I guess, America.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I can't look that far forward into the future, so I can't tell you that you're wrong. If you can, you're a wiser person than me. All I can answer to you is that the inference that you took from what I wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote.

What I tried to bring across is that the negative reaction by white voters to BLM, and the Ferguson riots, would have come across in the answers to those question asked during the study. I made no further statement past that.

So as I said, MLK all over again. MLK was detested by vast majority of white voters when he was alive. MLK was hated by them and he was "peaceful", they voted in racist policies and politicians as a response to him addressing racism.

And much like then we've had abundance of videos and photos of police dehumanizing black people, but a riot is what made them vote racist? lol okay.

 

[Derwind]

So as I said, MLK all over again. MLK was detested by vast majority of white voters when he was alive. MLK was hated by them and he was "peaceful", they voted in racist policies and politicians as a response to him addressing racism.

And much like then we've had abundance of videos and photos of police dehumanizing black people, but a riot is what made them vote racist? lol okay.

Racism is so heavily integrated into the American way of life that something so vile can be given a huge platform.

How can you be held accountable or own up to shit when you don't even see yourself or your actions as being wrong.

Louie C.K. said it best, when someone says you're being an asshole and your response is "No I'm not!", you're being a sociopath. The way you're seen by others is not up to you.

You can either be like "shit, what did I do and how can I fix it" or you double & triple down on your behaviour.

You cannot be any "nicer" to someone than telling them the truth. Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia are fucking deplorable acts.

You can either own that and have a moment of self-reflection or you can double & triple down.

Cater to those who rebuild that bridge, not those that are satisfied with building a wall where that bridge previously stood.

If the new norm is tossing minorities under the bus to not offend those that helped bigotry gain a large platform, I wash my hands of this shit.

 

[Xe4]

Already done. (see: prior page link)

Yeah, I've read it (I believe we had a GAF thread on it). That's why in my first thread I mentioned there were other studies done that I wasn't the hugest fan of, but still showed evidence of racism playing a part in Trump's win.

I think the study is great, but it is not peer reviewed and I am a little dubious of them combining data sets from an unknown 3rd party like that. I'd love to see a peer reviewed paper with an original collected data set weighted for factors such as income and age (and race, of course) published in a respected sociological journal. That's what I meant in my previous post. I have no doubt that racism played a huge factor in this election, likely more than in previous, but I have to go where the evidence points me. Currently the evidence seems to support my viewpoint, but I think it would more concretely shut the case if there was a study of that nature.