Support NeoGAF

[Gully State]

I doubt that "there are just as many people who don't think the controls are bad". I think that most users believe that the conrols are bad, but this can't be discussed because of the vocal minority insisting that we are poor FPS gamers or using some other logic to stop that particular conversation.

The tragic issue here is that usually poor controls are a result of developers half assing mechanics but in this case it's that GG took the wrong approach to controls.

 

[Acid08]

I doubt that "there are just as many people who don't think the controls are bad". I think that most users believe that the conrols are bad, but this can't be discussed because of the vocal minority insisting that we are poor FPS gamers or using some other logic to stop that particular conversation.

You honestly think that most of the people who bought the game or tried the demo hate the controls? This thread is giving me an aneurysm.

 

[VULKIN]

The tragic issue here is that usually poor controls are a result of developers half assing mechanics but in this case it's that GG took the wrong approach to controls.

I agree! I also like the idea on paper it just did not translate well for me and many others. I do hope that they get to make a 3rd Killzone with more time and money spent on design and gameplay. No stupid CG trailer that they will need to match!

 

[brain_stew]

I don't know why. I've played plenty of "bad" games with poor control. IMO, if you can accomplish your objective easily, and you're not fighting with the game, then the control isn't bad.

The only area in KZ2 where the controls absolutely fall apart is the last section, prior to the Radec fight. When being attacked from all angles, it simply falls apart.

Playing through the game, however, you are almost constantly presented with a linear objective, move from point a to point b, following along this corridor of kill rooms that are oddly in a straight line of sight. You're never attacked from all sides, thus, the control holds up rather well.

It also tends to fall apart in multiplayer, though it's obvious that the levels were designed to put players in as many long corridors as possible to keep them aiming forward.

Again, I think controls are relative to enemy and level design, etc. If you don't agree with that, then that's fine. However, I don't feel you need to get personal or insulting about it.

So your championing game design that specifically restricts the game mechanics and possible scenarios in order to overcome severely restrictive controls? Would it not be better to spend a little time on actually creating better than functional controls so that the developers were able to create whatever game mechanics and scenarios they want?

Like they can do in, oh any PC shooter released in the last 15 years, for example? For a game so highly regarded, it seems utterly absurd that is apparently burdened with controls which aren't even a fraction as functional as those that were introduced over a decade and a half ago.

Hey why not just limit the game to d-pad control? So long as you make the scenarios simple and easy enough, it'll be possible for it to "work", right?

You honestly think that most of the people who bought the game or tried the demo hate the controls? This thread is giving me an aneurysm.

You honestly think that most people that bought the game think the controls are upto par with other console shooters like COD for example? Hey, i haven't played the game, but judging by the simple technical restrictions in place and the fact that an unprecedented amount of people have complained about them, I'm willing to bet that they're far from the accepted standard. A standard which isn't particularly high nor on par with the standards of a decade ago either, for that matter.

 

[Rad Agast]

You can't possibly have played this game. It's not the typical floaty shit Quake introduced, but that does not mean it's bad.

Ok, now Quake was/is shitty? so much fail in this thread.

 

[Acid08]

Ok, now Quake was/is shitty? so much fail in this thread.

There is A LOT of fail in this thread from both sides of the argument.

 

[VULKIN]

You honestly think that most of the people who bought the game or tried the demo hate the controls? This thread is giving me an aneurysm.

YES...and I know 2 people who bought the PS3 just for this game and movies!

Both of them play on PC primarily but also come over to my house to play Halo online about once or twice a week (along with other console games). The controls for those who do not "enjoy" them can be gamebreaking.

Having said that I am sure there are those who have no issues, just that many if not most do.

 

[alr1ght]

Unreal Tournament does not control the same as COD, which does not control the same as Killzone. Different types of games, even in the same genre, control differently.

 

[Acid08]

YES...and I know 2 people who bought the PS3 just for this game and movies!

Both of them play on PC primarily but also come over to my house to play Halo online about once or twice a week (along with other console games). The controls for those who do not "enjoy" them can be gamebreaking.

Having said that I am sure there are those who have no issues, just that many if not most do.

Wow you know an entire 2 people who didn't like the game? I know 5 people who have bought the game and they all loved it and continue to play the multiplayer hours a week. See we can both pull out our fucking friends to try and prove our points, but it doesn't fucking do anything.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

If the enemies in Killzone 2 were fast moving, and required fast pinpoint accuracy, then the controls would be terrible. Fortunately, the enemies are slow moving, and just aiming near an enemy will generally land you hits from cover.

Were we playing the same Killzone?

Maybe it's because I'm playing it first time through on hard, but these fuckers come around cover fast.

And no aim assist means you have to be very precise in terms of hitting them. To make it worse, on hard, you ahev to shoot each helghast like 78 times before they finally go fucking down.

I'm surprised this thread turned into a discussion about AI. To me, they seem pretty smart. At least on hard anyway.

I mean, every now and again they'll just stand there and let you pop them from cover, but they generally flank and attack, throw a shit tonne of grenades or take plenty of cover themselves.

I guess that COULD be one of the big problems.

The AI probably requires better aiming than the game provides. To compound the issue, we have to play with the Dualshock 3 which is shiteful for FPS' as it is.

 

[VULKIN]

Wow you know an entire 2 people who didn't like the game? I know 5 people who have bought the game and they all loved it and continue to play the multiplayer hours a week. See we can both pull out our fucking friends to try and prove our points, but it doesn't fucking do anything.

I know I should not have brought up the anecdote but I was just frustrated at answering the same question. YES I believe the controls are a big enough issue and YES I also believe that most were turned off by them. Is it not obvious that most complaints about this game are about its controls?

Why don’t you describe to me and many others why you feel that the controls are not an issue or why the masses would not find them to be an issue?

 

[Acid08]

I know I should not have brought up the anecdote but I was just frustrated at answering the same question. YES I believe the controls are a big enough issue and YES I also believe that most were turned off by them. Is it not obvious that most complaints about this game are about its controls?

Why don’t you describe to me and many others why you feel that the controls are not an issue or why the masses would not find them to be an issue?

I know this has been brought up before but how the fuck could the game have reviewed so well if the controls were REALLY that big of an issue? If they're so terribly flawed like you say you would think there would be more talk about it from the media.

I can't describe why I don't think the controls are a big issue. Honestly it seems like a lot of unnecessary bitching. The game is by no means unplayable and it's either you can get into the controls or you can't, nothing wrong with either really. The issue comes when the people who can't get into it start saying that there is something horribly flawed about them when there really isn't. It plays unlike any other FPS and of course it's going to turn a lot of people off to the game. BUT just because you and other people can't get into it doesn't mean that the controls are bad. They're different and there are a shitload of people who love the game and I think it's apparent that just as many people really like the game as hate it.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I know this has been brought up before but how the fuck could the game have reviewed so well if the controls were REALLY that big of an issue? If they're so terribly flawed like you say you would think there would be more talk about it from the media.

You're not serious are you?

GTA4 says hi.

When do review sites EVER hype the shit out of a game and then give it a low or average score? (which virtually exposes what clueless idiots they are)

Never. Look at a game like God Hand. The review personally just didn't like it, but gave it a fucked score anyway because there was no external pressure to give it a good review score, and also no fear of backlash from the gaming community.

Can you imagine what would happen if any review gave Killzone 2 less than say 8? Despite 8 being a good score for a game? There's a good chance that the world as we know it, MAY have come to an end.

To claim that Killzone 2 had great reviews so the controls MUST be ok is just insane. Despite MANY of the reviews MENTIONING the controls would be an issue for 'some'.

Big name, hyped games RARELY if ever get low scores from review sites. I mean christ, look at the backlash Zelda TP got for an 8.8 for fucks sake. 8.8 is a great score and look at the response.

I mean shit, Killzone 2 got a 9.5 for graphics somewhere, and the Killzone 2 thread reactions were akin to someone who just watched his mother get raped and murdered.

 

[Acid08]

You're not serious are you?

GTA4 says hi.

When do review sites EVER hype the shit out of a game and then give it a low or average score? (which virtually exposes what clueless idiots they are)

Never. Look at a game like God Hand. The review personally just didn't like it, but gave it a fucked score anyway because there was no external pressure to give it a good review score, and also no fear of backlash from the gaming community.

Can you imagine what would happen if any review gave Killzone 2 less than say 8? Despite 8 being a good score for a game? There's a good chance that the world as we know it, MAY have come to an end.

To claim that Killzone 2 had great reviews so the controls MUST be ok is just insane. Despite MANY of the reviews MENTIONING the controls would be an issue for 'some'.

Big name, hyped games RARELY if ever get low scores from review sites. I mean christ, look at the backlash Zelda TP got for an 8.8 for fucks sake. 8.8 is a great score and look at the response.

I mean shit, Killzone 2 got a 9.5 for graphics somewhere, and the Killzone 2 thread reactions were akin to someone who just watched his mother get raped and murdered.

GTA4 was a good game. Comparing God Hand is asinine. If you think KZ2's controls are dividing what about God Hand? That game was built for the 10 people that bought it. Also I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying about God Hand. What I got from you is that the reviewer didn't like the game and then gave it a score that went along with their opinion, and you say that the only reason it received that score is because there was no external pressure saying they should give it a better score? I really REALLY hope I'm interpreting that wrong.

And then I guess you're saying that Killzone didn't get the scores it got because it's a great game but because there was a lot of outside pressure to give it a good score? Did you ever stop to think that the big games that get good scores get them because....THEY'RE GOOD FUCKING GAMES? No of course not, it's the reviewer and publisher conspiracy right?

 

[VULKIN]

I know this has been brought up before but how the fuck could the game have reviewed so well if the controls were REALLY that big of an issue? If they're so terribly flawed like you say you would think there would be more talk about it from the media.

I can't describe why I don't think the controls are a big issue. Honestly it seems like a lot of unnecessary bitching. The game is by no means unplayable and it's either you can get into the controls or you can't, nothing wrong with either really. The issue comes when the people who can't get into it start saying that there is something horribly flawed about them when there really isn't. It plays unlike any other FPS and of course it's going to turn a lot of people off to the game. BUT just because you and other people can't get into it doesn't mean that the controls are bad. They're different and there are a shitload of people who love the game and I think it's apparent that just as many people really like the game as hate it.

Reviewers did mention the controls and said they are fine once you get used to them. But I wonder how many reviewers play the shit out of shooters competitively online like a lot of "casuals" do (Halo and CoD are popular as all hell). I would not mind discussing this (why is it good/bad) but I wonder if this is possible. I also never said unplayable...it's just why play this for more than a playthrough when other games control better. Keep in mind that I do enjoy MANY aspects of the game and was blown away by some (graphics, gun models, animation, art...) and am happy with my purchase. It just could have been so much more.

I am done discussing this issue. If you would like to keep the discussion going please PM me.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

Killzone 2 is by no means unplayable!

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

 

[Acid08]

Reviewers did mention the controls and said they are fine once you get used to them. But I wonder how many reviewers play the shit out of shooters competitively online like a lot of "casuals" do (Halo and CoD are popular as all hell). I would not mind discussing this (why is it good/bad) but I wonder if this is possible. I also never said unplayable...it's just why play this for more than a playthrough when other games control better. Keep in mind that I do enjoy MANY aspects of the game and was blown away by some (graphics, gun models, animation, art...) and am happy with my purchase. It just could have been so much more.

I am done discussing this issue. If you would like to keep the discussion going please PM me.

No I'm done discussing this as well. It's a pretty stupid argument and I can't believe I got caught up in it haha. Goddamn you Gaf

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

GTA4 was a good game. Comparing God Hand is asinine. If you think KZ2's controls are dividing what about God Hand? That game was built for the 10 people that bought it. Also I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying about God Hand. What I got from you is that the reviewer didn't like the game and then gave it a score that went along with their opinion, and you say that the only reason it received that score is because there was no external pressure saying they should give it a better score? I really REALLY hope I'm interpreting that wrong.

And then I guess you're saying that Killzone didn't get the scores it got because it's a great game but because there was a lot of outside pressure to give it a good score? Did you ever stop to think that the big games that get good scores get them because....THEY'RE GOOD FUCKING GAMES? No of course not, it's the reviewer and publisher conspiracy right?

I never said Killzone wasn't a good game. It IS a GOOD game, just not a great game, and it's for that ONE reason. The aiming is too sluggish, unresponsive, whatever you want to call it.

I WILL try AltogetherAndrews suggestion of turning DOWN the sensitivity, in case it works. It's the least I can do since he gave me access to the awesome inFAMOUS demo

As to reviews. Please dont tell me you're naive enough to believe many games get low scores when they don't deserve it, awhile other gets HIGHER scores than they deserve due to external factors.

Grow up. I'm aware that the vast majority of big name games are ACTUALLY good games, but that doesn't stop them from getting scores higher than they deserve.

10 for GTA4 almost across the board? Get the fuck out.

Killzone 2 IS a good game. But it's controls prevent it from being anything near the 9.0 - 10 range.

With proper controls, I'd borderline give it a 10. But that's how much the controls hinder it.

 

[Acid08]

I never said Killzone wasn't a good game. It IS a GOOD game, just not a great game, and it's for that ONE reason. The aiming is too sluggish, unresponsive, whatever you want to call it.

I WILL try AltogetherAndrews suggestion of turning DOWN the sensitivity, in case it works. It's the least I can do since he gave me access to the awesome inFAMOUS demo

As to reviews. Please dont tell me you're naive enough to believe many games get low scores when they don't deserve it, awhile other gets HIGHER scores than they deserve due to external factors.

Grow up. I'm aware that the vast majority of big name games are ACTUALLY good games, but that doesn't stop them from getting scores higher than they deserve.

10 for GTA4 almost across the board? Get the fuck out.

Killzone 2 IS a good game. But it's controls prevent it from being anything near the 9.0 - 10 range.

With proper controls, I'd borderline give it a 10. But that's how much the controls hinder it.

You're a fucking idiot if you think a game like God Hand got low scores because the reviewer was somehow corrupt enough to lower the score even though they liked the game. Can you honestly not see how someone would not like that game? Why don't you name some other games that you think got lower scores than they deserved because someone somehow convinced the reviewer to lower their score. I know that raising the review scores is definitely a problem and happens a lot, but lowering them?

 

[mujun]

Neither side is going to win this argument.

so the only good discussion is one that has a winner and a loser?

and you are contributing a whole bunch of posts to this "stupid cluster fuck of a thread", nice.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I never said Killzone wasn't a good game. It IS a GOOD game, just not a great game, and it's for that ONE reason. The aiming is too sluggish, unresponsive, whatever you want to call it.

I WILL try AltogetherAndrews suggestion of turning DOWN the sensitivity, in case it works. It's the least I can do since he gave me access to the awesome inFAMOUS demo

As to reviews. Please dont tell me you're naive enough to believe many games get low scores when they don't deserve it, awhile other gets HIGHER scores than they deserve due to external factors.

Grow up. I'm aware that the vast majority of big name games are ACTUALLY good games, but that doesn't stop them from getting scores higher than they deserve.

10 for GTA4 almost across the board? Get the fuck out.

Killzone 2 IS a good game. But it's controls prevent it from being anything near the 9.0 - 10 range.

With proper controls, I'd borderline give it a 10. But that's how much the controls hinder it.

your real problem is people are not agreeing with your opinion. i played through killzone2 3 times, still play my favorite chapters, and played 60 hours of online. i like the controls and so do the hundreds of thousands that play online weekly. killzone2 is a great game and deserves all the praise it got.

 

[Acid08]

so the only good discussion is one that has a winner and a loser?

and you are contributing a whole bunch of posts to this "stupid cluster fuck of a thread", nice.

Yeah I got caught up in the thread. That's the magic of Gaf.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

You're a fucking idiot if you think a game like God Hand got low scores because the reviewer was somehow corrupt enough to lower the score even though they liked the game. Can you honestly not see how someone would not like that game? Why don't you name some other games that you think got lower scores than they deserved because someone somehow convinced the reviewer to lower their score. I know that raising the review scores is definitely a problem and happens a lot, but lowering them?

insults are awesome.

I never said God Hand got low scores despite the Reviewer LIKING the game. That WOULD be stupid.

I said THAT reviewer didn't particularly like the game, or he just didn't 'get it' and gave a score that was well below was the average. Go to metacritic now since Reviews are your bread and butter.

The ONLY reason God Hand is at 73 (still a good score) is because of THAT IGN review.

Let's not forget the review that IGN had to pull for a Football Manager game due to stupidity.

But that's cool, keep throwing insults if it helps your argument further.

your real problem is people are not agreeing with your opinion. i played through killzone2 3 times, still play my favorite chapters, and played 60 hours of online. i like the controls and so do the hundreds of thousands that play online weekly. killzone2 is a great game and deserves all the praise it got.

Yes, I expect a forum full of predominantly Sony fanboys to agree with me all the time. Debates are one of the main reasons people are on forums like this.

It's fun to do, and sometimes you might see something in a way you never would have WITHOUT the discussion.

Without this thread, I NEVER would have tried turning DOWN the sensitivity on Killzone 2 (which I'll do tonight). See how that works?

YOU like Killzone 2, and that's awesome. But denying that there IS an issue with the controls no matter how minor or non-existant it may seem to you, is just being blind.

Like the original reason for this thread, I'd say the lower than expected sales justify most of what we're saying here anyway. It's not like anything ELSE about the game is being shitcanned.

It's one universal complaint which generally leads one to believe it MAY be an issue. Where there's smoke there's generally fire. Or if you like, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[gregor7777]

Acid, chill man. Videogames.

 

[Acid08]

insults are awesome.

I never said God Hand got low scores despite the Reviewer LIKING the game. That WOULD be stupid.

I said THAT reviewer didn't particularly like the game, or he just didn't 'get it' and gave a score that was well below was the average. Go to metacritic now since Reviews are your bread and butter.

The ONLY reason God Hand is at 73 (still a good score) is because of THAT IGN review.

Let's not forget the review that IGN had to pull for a Football Manager game due to stupidity.

But that's cool, keep throwing insults if it helps your argument further.

You started throwing insults around by calling me a child and telling me to grow up.

Acid, chill man. Videogames.

I'm fine. I stayed out of this argument up until this page. All of this arguing is dumb. People have their own opinions and this thread is nothing but people trying to say their opinion is somehow more valid than others. It's dumb, but unfortunately it's easy to get caught up in.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

You started throwing insults around by calling me a child and telling me to grow up.

Never said child. Grow up was more related to your naivety, not your age. You can be old and naive. Naive and fucking idiot are on slightly different levels of the 'insult' spectrum.

 

[TheFatOne]

Yes, I expect a forum full of predominantly Sony fanboys to agree with me all the time. Debates are one of the main reasons people are on forums like this.

It's fun to do, and sometimes you might see something in a way you never would have WITHOUT the discussion.

Without this thread, I NEVER would have tried turning DOWN the sensitivity on Killzone 2 (which I'll do tonight). See how that works?

YOU like Killzone 2, and that's awesome. But denying that there IS an issue with the controls no matter how minor or non-existant it may seem to you, is just being blind.

Like the original reason for this thread, I'd say the lower than expected sales justify most of what we're saying here anyway. It's not like anything ELSE about the game is being shitcanned.

It's one universal complaint which generally leads one to believe it MAY be an issue. Where there's smoke there's generally fire. Or if you like, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Just bolded what I thought was interesting. To the first bolded part :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

The first thing anyone should do IMO when you have problems with the controls of a FPS is check the control options. You see if I have a problem with the controls of any FPS I check the sensitivity. Let me give you an example. I played Call of Duty World at War and I sucked ass online. I thought I turned way too fast so I messed around with the sensitivity and magically I became decent overnight. If you mess around with the sensitivity, and that doesn't work well maybe it is the controls. If you payed attention the the official Killzone 2 thread in the beginning that is what many people suggested.

I don't think the controls is the reason why Killzone 2 sold poorly. I think it is a combination of a couple of different things one of them being the controls. The controls were not the sole reason Killzone 2 did not do well in the U.S IMO.

 

[oneHeero]

I never said Killzone wasn't a good game. It IS a GOOD game, just not a great game, and it's for that ONE reason. The aiming is too sluggish, unresponsive, whatever you want to call it.

I WILL try AltogetherAndrews suggestion of turning DOWN the sensitivity, in case it works. It's the least I can do since he gave me access to the awesome inFAMOUS demo

As to reviews. Please dont tell me you're naive enough to believe many games get low scores when they don't deserve it, awhile other gets HIGHER scores than they deserve due to external factors.

Grow up. I'm aware that the vast majority of big name games are ACTUALLY good games, but that doesn't stop them from getting scores higher than they deserve.

10 for GTA4 almost across the board? Get the fuck out.

Killzone 2 IS a good game. But it's controls prevent it from being anything near the 9.0 - 10 range.

With proper controls, I'd borderline give it a 10. But that's how much the controls hinder it.

So its a good game thats basically a 6 or less right? Because its nothing near 9-10 so it cant be 8 since thats so close and not a 7 since thats kinda close so it has to be a good game thats basically a 6 or less.

I cant believe some of the stuff you've said so far but this was just to ridiculous to pass up. I expect the "Well thats not what I meant" excuse if you reply.

 

[Mamesj]

Ok, now Quake was/is shitty? so much fail in this thread.

and how was it floaty? :lol it's immediately responsive. Killzone 2's controls are the epitome of floaty.



lol videogames

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Just bolded what I thought was interesting. To the first bolded part :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

The first thing anyone should do IMO when you have problems with the controls of a FPS is check the control options. You see if I have a problem with the controls of any FPS I check the sensitivity. Let me give you an example. I played Call of Duty World at War and I sucked ass online. I thought I turned way too fast so I messed around with the sensitivity and magically I became decent overnight. If you mess around with the sensitivity, and that doesn't work well maybe it is the controls. If you payed attention the the official Killzone 2 thread in the beginning that is what many people suggested.

I don't think the controls is the reason why Killzone 2 sold poorly. I think it is a combination of a couple of different things one of them being the controls. The controls were not the sole reason Killzone 2 did not do well in the U.S IMO.

To your first part. The only reason I COULD be wrong, is because I'm confusing "the loudest" with "the biggest population". My mistake IF that's the case.

Yes, I DID fiddle with sensitivity. Hwo coudl you not? If a game is giving you issues with control, you check the settings. Who on GAF would play games and NOT do this?

No, you're right, controls aren't the ONLY reason it sold 'below expectations'. I won't say poorly. Because it didn't sell 'poorly' if we're basing that off a number without taking expectations into account.

It sold the way it did because:
- Poorly implemented controls led to bad word of mouth
- Apparently poor demo. I actually liked the demo stage, aside from the controls
- Killzone 1. Seriously don't underestimate the impact the first game had on the 2nd one
- Sony hyped this game TOO much (as did GAF). If this game was legitimately as good as they say, shut the fuck up and let the game do the talking (see Dead Space as an example)
- Apparently shitty marketing? Personally, I thought the ads were ok. Probably wasn't quite enough of them comapred to what they did down here in AU for LBP. I guess the ads also didn't REALLY show off the games main strong point, the graphics.

But I still think the REAL killers were the combination of bad controls with bad word of mouth/demo.

The game would barely chart in PAL land without the bundle. Hell, that's how I got the game. I was buying a 2nd PS3 anyway so I figured, "Might as well get the bundle since I get a free game".

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

So its a good game thats basically a 6 or less right? Because its nothing near 9-10 so it cant be 8 since thats so close and not a 7 since thats kinda close so it has to be a good game thats basically a 6 or less.

I cant believe some of the stuff you've said so far but this was just to ridiculous to pass up. I expect the "Well thats not what I meant" excuse if you reply.

Personally, I think a 7-7.5 is about right.

When you strip back the graphics, you can't tell me the game does anything else to really warrant anything higher.

Everything else about the game is basically serviceable. So 7-7.5 is a serviceable score.

The graphics increase the enjoyment of the game to send it into the 8 plus range, then the controls drag it back down into the 7 range.

But god forbid any review sites admit to that.

Look at this game with a completely open mind. What does it honestly do aside from it's graphics/physics that genuinely set it apart?

- no story
- no characters to get attached to (which relates to story)
- bland enemies
- no co-op despite being the PERFECT set-up for it
- MP is fairly badly implemented from a setup and features perspective, again, compared to what else is on offer (even on PS3)
- sluggish aiming controls

The REAL irony? Many of the reviews I read made mention of ALL the above points and still saw fit to brand the game a 9 plus game. :lol

A game without the hype of Killzone would have scored much less with all those 'issues'.

 

[A.R.K]

WTF...the controls argument all over again! Here is a true story: I pushed some of my gaming friends (we used to play Halo2 before we all switched to PS3) to get kz2. I was reallly worried after all those controller complains when the game came out, that my friends will give me shit for asking them to buy this game with the shittiest controls ever according to all the crying over the internetz. But guess what, no one ever complained about the controls. No problems adjusting to them even when they have mainly played Halo2 before it and on top of that getting adjusted to the PS3 controller too. Yes there are other problems with KZ2 MP but controls are not an issue. KZ2 controls are great! WTF is wrong with some of you???? noobs

 

[John_B]

Whatever.

Some can't or won't bother to adjust to atypical controls. Those of us who actually play the game will tell you that the controls are fine in their current form.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Some can't or won't bother to adjust to atypical controls. Those of us who actually play the game will tell you that the controls are fine in their current form.

How would we know there are issues without having played the game?

 

[lowlylowlycook]

WTF...the controls argument all over again! Here is a true story: I pushed some of my gaming friends (we used to play Halo2 before we all switched to PS3) to get kz2. I was reallly worried after all those controller complains when the game came out, that my friends will give me shit for asking them to buy this game with the shittiest controls ever according to all the crying over the internetz. But guess what, no one ever complained about the controls. No problems adjusting to them even when they have mainly played Halo2 before it and on top of that getting adjusted to the PS3 controller too. Yes there are other problems with KZ2 MP but controls are not an issue. KZ2 controls are great! WTF is wrong with some of you???? noobs

I believe this story.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

bland enemies

They are basically War Game Enemies, but with unusually high combat capability. Actual variety, in terms of enemy types and appearances, becomes at least to me a distant secondary concern when you consider how much behavioral variety there is to any single encounter with a plain grunt.

And if we are going to continue alk about how it stacks up, feature-wise, against other games, the online component rips the most popular online shooter a new one. A deep class system, real clan functions, and multi-objective matches come together to set it apart quite a bit from your average shooter. It certainly doesn't do everything well, but when reviewers rate that particular component as "run of the mill" then I have to again wonder what mythical standards they are holding the game up to.

That said, I found the game to be intolerable once all hosts switched friendly fire off. Rocket spamming is a bitch, and I can attest to that the poor class balancing has turned away most people that I once played the game with.

 

[Mr.Green]

I believe this story.

I don't.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

And for the record, it is still comical to see console gamers talk about controls holding a shooter back.

 

[shintoki]

Give it up about the fucking controls already. Nothing is wrong with them. Want to know what the problem is? They aren't Quake's. There is your problem. They aren't the speed up, weightless, floaty style the vast majority of games use. They actually put some weight on to them and hence why allot of people were turned off by them. Its just different.

 

[A.R.K]

I believe this story.

well thank you

Oh by the way, most of my friends are not that hardcore just casual gamers!!! So if they would have had issues with controls I would have believed you cry babies. But no complains about controls whatsoever. Infact they loved them!!

 

[mujun]

WTF...the controls argument all over again! Here is a true story: I pushed some of my gaming friends (we used to play Halo2 before we all switched to PS3) to get kz2. I was reallly worried after all those controller complains when the game came out, that my friends will give me shit for asking them to buy this game with the shittiest controls ever according to all the crying over the internetz. But guess what, no one ever complained about the controls. No problems adjusting to them even when they have mainly played Halo2 before it and on top of that getting adjusted to the PS3 controller too. Yes there are other problems with KZ2 MP but controls are not an issue. KZ2 controls are great! WTF is wrong with some of you???? noobs

you are totally right man, what was i thinking. im going to buy the game back and whenever i feel like the controls are a struggle im going to read your post.

thanks for helping me see the light!

 

[Lebron]

WTF...the controls argument all over again! Here is a true story: I pushed some of my gaming friends (we used to play Halo2 before we all switched to PS3) to get kz2. I was reallly worried after all those controller complains when the game came out, that my friends will give me shit for asking them to buy this game with the shittiest controls ever according to all the crying over the internetz. But guess what, no one ever complained about the controls. No problems adjusting to them even when they have mainly played Halo2 before it and on top of that getting adjusted to the PS3 controller too. Yes there are other problems with KZ2 MP but controls are not an issue. KZ2 controls are great! WTF is wrong with some of you???? noobs

So because you and your friends didn't have any issues with the controls, that means there aren't any and others are wrong? Some sound logic you have there, that makes perfect sense. Thank heavens you put an end to that debate. Let's all do the 1 2 step in celebration!

 

[Stinkles]

Give it up about the fucking controls already. Nothing is wrong with them. Want to know what the problem is? They aren't Quake's. There is your problem. They aren't the speed up, weightless, floaty style the vast majority of games use. They actually put some weight on to them and hence why allot of people were turned off by them. Its just different.

There are about a million games to compare it to before going anywhere near Quake, which is statistically a mouselook twitch game and therefore the exact opposite of KZ2. So you're right, KZ2 does not have Quake controls. And the vast majority of games I play don't have floaty controls. Maybe you have just been unlucky in your prior choices. But I agree with the bolded part.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

They are basically War Game Enemies, but with unusually high combat capability. Actual variety, in terms of enemy types and appearances, becomes at least to me a distant secondary concern when you consider how much behavioral variety there is to any single encounter with a plain grunt.

And if we are going to continue alk about how it stacks up, feature-wise, against other games, the online component rips the most popular online shooter a new one. A deep class system, real clan functions, and multi-objective matches come together to set it apart quite a bit from your average shooter. It certainly doesn't do everything well, but when reviewers rate that particular component as "run of the mill" then I have to again wonder what mythical standards they are holding the game up to.

That said, I found the game to be intolerable once all hosts switched friendly fire off. Rocket spamming is a bitch, and I can attest to that the poor class balancing has turned away most people that I once played the game with.

I'm sorry, but class systems don't really do much, especially when they're not balanced. In most cases, people just go the same class anyway so what's the point?

Clans? Meh, overrated. We had them in Halo 2 and to be honest, I don't think TOO many people bothered with them aside from the real MLG types. As long as you can party up in most games, there's no major need for a clan.

I'm sorry, but those multi-objective matches are SHIT. They drag on for WAY too long, and cause the whole thing to become a fucking mess. I was amazed at how hard it was just to play a regular game of deathmatch in Killzone.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

You know, I'm not all that big on defending KZ2 MP. After all, I ditched the game early on when the balance issues became more obvious (and made much more so by the lack of friendly fire on servers) and eventually intolerable. What I do take issue with is the notion that KZ2 is a run of the mill game, and this extends to its MP. In this thread alone, I've seen people claim that the combat is pedestrian, the A.I. mediocre (that one just amazes me, and makes me wish I could play the apparently quite amazing games that the critics are playing), and that the multiplayer is nothing out of the ordinary, and it all reeks of "Crysis is a nice tech demo." For all its shortcomings, it's also nowhere near the anonymous shooter mush that it's regularly portrayed as being.

That said, if I was looking at the game with virgin eyes, unaware of anything but what I can tell from a screen and a short clip, I probably would feel that it was just another wargame. Which is what I think is the real reason for its failure to light up the charts in any significant way.

 

[RedRedSuit]

The last few pages of this thread are Hulk-smash-syndrome-inducing.

ugh

 

[guggnichso]

see Dead Space as an example

Dead Space didn't sell too well, as did Mirror's Edge. Which is a shame, imho.

 

[CrushDance]

For all the complaints about Killzone(Some valid, some off) The AI is really one of the things the title does very well. Playing on elite difficulty and even on Vetaran really makes you work for your kills and strategise things ahead of time. Enemes will attack you from the front and while you try to counter they;ll shift positions behind cover, throw grenades etc and almost certainly in Elite if you're not watchful a few will sneak right by you and attack from the rear as you focus on the front.

Then you have levels like Visari Square that are just plain brutal in a skll testing way as you have to move from positoon to position quickly, man turrets, fight heavies, revive allies and keep yourself alive. It's hard as hell but feels really good when you finish one of those harder battles. The AI is extremely polished.

 

[Rapping Granny]

WTF? controls now??

One good example of a shitty game with horrible controls and still sells amazingly well is RE5, it sold because of it's brand and Capcom marketed the shit out of it which Sony failed to do. I saw more ads for the MLB08 The Show here in Canada than the Killzone ads, hell they are still airing here.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

WTF? controls now??

One good example of a shitty game with horrible controls and still sells amazingly well is RE5, it sold because of it's brand and Capcom marketed the shit out of it which Sony failed to do. I saw more ads for the MLB08 The Show here in Canada than the Killzone ads, hell they are still airing here.

Don't bash the great games just because Killzone 2 isn't selling well.