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[tfur]

AT&T released info on iPhone activations and Apple released total sales, so the hard numbers are there to be found. There aren't NPD numbers in the console sense because most buy from carriers, not B&M retailers.

So do we know when was the last time iphone dropped in market share? This seems like news to me.

I imagine Apple will come out with some spin for this? I guess the Verizon deal cannot come soon enough. I think the market share boat has sailed for the iphone, even though Apple doesn't care about market share... ...

 

[gcubed]

For a survey like that you'd also have to take into account carrier issues as well. As much as it might go over some of the platform wars around here, signal quality can certainly be big enough of a factor to impact decisions on the next phone they buy.

well as of Feb 10th its less of an issue because the two largest carriers will offer both platforms, so people can still say in the "ecosystem"

 

[zoku88]

For a survey like that you'd also have to take into account carrier issues as well. As much as it might go over some of the platform wars around here, signal quality can certainly be big enough of a factor to impact decisions on the next phone they buy.

Yea, but two of the largest carriers have the iphone...

And, there's also the fact that Verizon has half of the current android users, anyway.

 

[LCfiner]

You can dig up my post history if you'd like. Worst smartphone I've ever owned. I really am amazed they didn't get more heat for the iphone 3G, the whole product was a joke. Missing features at launch, buggy platform updates, terrible performance, etc. Don't even get me started on the reception. About halfway through the platform's lifecycle they obviously just stopped caring about it. Couldn't have been happier to ditch it. Only issue I have with Android is the battery life, but then again, I'm probably a much more technical user than average.

Not sure if it was the exchange sync or the number of dynamic playlists I used, but it rarely worked well once ios 3 hit. Also, I know anecdotal experience is worth as much as you pay for it, but I don't know a single iphone 3G user who was happy with their phone within a year of getting it. Amazingly probably half updated to the iphone 4.

well, I'm not going to try to change your mind about anything (and why would I care to dig up your post history? I'm not challenging your personal experience) and it sucks you had such a bad time with the thing. but it's fair to say that your experience is not a common one for the 3G. If it was, then sales would have flatlined, no one would have wanted a 3GS or iphone 4, and Apple would be struggling to stay relevant.

 

[Davidion]

Yea, but two of the largest carriers have the iphone...

And, there's also the fact that Verizon has half of the current android users, anyway.

Well, that was just announced so it wouldn't have significantly impacted consumer sentiment at the time the survey was conducted.

The Verizon iphone availability will provide enough interesting numbers to sift through in the coming months.

 

[SimleuqiR]

The fragmentation is a mess on Android right now with Google not officially backing updates. What's up with that? You see people like CM, AOSP, and Super D E F having to make ROMs for people to enjoy. Android is essentially what the former Windows Mobile community has migrated.

I'm all for the One Google phone to rule them all - but when dealing with carriers, specially in the USA, it not as easy as it seems. Apple make it look easy because they a have few phone models/revisions to deal with and update the OS once a year? Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is what Sony had to say about updating their X10 line in the USA:

One factor in determining a software update is when a country first received the handset. The Xperia™ X10 has been available in some countries since March 2010 and they are also the first to receive the update. The U.S. received the X10 in August 2010 and will receive the update after the initial countries.

The second and more impactful factor of the timeline addresses the technical requirements that must be met in order for an update to take place -- no matter which country you live in. Unfortunately, we have no control of that timeline factor. Those requirements are provided to us and we work hard to meet and test them as quickly as we can. In the U.S., the testing process is especially rigorous, and can take months to complete, which is why we cannot announce the timing for availability of the X10 update in the U.S. It's not that we don't want to; it's that the timing is undefined until such testing is completed.

http://www.androidcentral.com/sony-ericsson-explains-why-us-x10-hasnt-been-udpated-yet

Carries have some stringent requests. Unfortunately this is not going to change.

Google eventually will move to a twice a year, or once a year update for the OS. At this moment they are just trying to push software forward.

Once this happens it will help carries keep up with Google. But you still have that "Test" waiting period with Carries to deal with.

 

[numble]

So do we know when was the last time iphone dropped in market share? This seems like news to me.

I imagine Apple will come out with some spin for this? I guess the Verizon deal cannot come soon enough. I think the market share boat has sailed for the iphone, even though Apple doesn't care about market share... ...

Apple has always been getting Q3 bumps and dropped marketshare in following quarters, so it's not new. They're happy with total unit sales always increasing.

I think they know they could increase marketshare by releasing an "iPhone nano" or something, but that would probably cannibalize their higher-end iPhone sales, which they are still selling at an average price of $625 (after carrier subsidies). The high sales of the 3GS (now selling at $49 with subsidy) point to people willing to buy cheaper iPhones, but they might think profits will decrease if people flock to cheaper iPhones instead of the $625 iPhone.

 

[zoku88]

Well, that was just announced so it wouldn't have significantly impacted consumer sentiment at the time the survey was conducted.

The Verizon iphone availability will provide enough interesting numbers to sift through in the coming months.

Why not?

I mean, most of the people surveyed probably wouldn't be eligible for a new phone for another year or two. And they all know of the iphone and probably know that the iphone would be coming to Verizon.

Unless the survey was conducting before the announcement (which is possible, given that it was published a week or two afterwards), I really don't see the problem with it.

 

[Davidion]

Why not?

I mean, most of the people surveyed probably wouldn't be eligible for a new phone for another year or two. And they all know of the iphone and probably know that the iphone would be coming to Verizon.

Unless the survey was conducting before the announcement (which is possible, given that it was published a week or two afterwards), I really don't see the problem with it.

There was no certainty that the iphone would have been coming to Verizon. As much as there was a lot of buzz in the tech circles there's no reason to believe that the bulk of the average consumers in the market believed with certainty that it was going to happen. I don't think needs to be explained that general consumers are very good at taking into account circumstances a year or two away when addressing their general sentiments.

In addition, surveys take time to plan, execute, tally results, and publish. You can't just assume that a major announcement that took place a week or two before publication has been accounted for in the mindset of your average consumers. It was a 2010 report.

 

[numble]

I'm all for the One Google phone to rule them all - but when dealing with carriers, specially in the USA, it not as easy as it seems. Apple make it look easy because they a have few phone models/revisions to deal with and update the OS once a year? Correct me if I'm wrong.

There is one major OS revision per year, but really minor bug fixes also get pushed out. They also have semi-major updates. There will be probably 3 semi-major updates to iOS 4 in the one year since its been released though.

4.0 - Lots of stuff, at iPhone 4 launch
4.1 - Game Center, HDR Photography, TV Show Rentals, Ping
4.2 - AirPlay, AirPrint, Free Find My iPhone, Search within Safari
4.3 - Personal Hotspot, AirPlay Apps

 

[numble]

Unless the survey was conducting before the announcement (which is possible, given that it was published a week or two afterwards), I really don't see the problem with it.

The results of this analysis are based on Zokem’s Global Smartphone Study 2010 report from the US, where over 1 500 smartphone users were surveyed per quarter regarding their device preferences and perceptions. Zokem continues to run its Mobile Life panels in the developed smartphone markets providing insights on consumer behavior, user satisfaction and loyalty, serving its customers to improve their current product and service offerings, and to benchmark against competition.

It was done way before the announcement.

 

[zoku88]

There was no certainty that the iphone would have been coming to Verizon. As much as there was a lot of buzz in the tech circles there's no reason to believe that the bulk of the average consumers in the market believed with certainty that it was going to happen. I don't think needs to be explained that general consumers are very good at taking into account circumstances a year or two away when addressing their general sentiments.

In addition, surveys take time to plan, execute, tally results, and publish. You can't just assume that a major announcement that took place a week or two before publication has been accounted for in the mindset of your average consumers. It was a 2010 report.

Ok, I didn't see that part.

Spoiler

Although, there is a reason to believe that people would think it is coming. Afterall, mainstream newspapers kept saying it would over and over and over again. I could see the effects of such on my friends, who were actually waiting for the iphone

But it's not important, after all, we were discussing loyalty as the likelihood of buying new phones of the same platform and I merely contested the fact that android loyalty, in that sense, was low. The person who I was contesting would not have seen the effects of the Verizon iphone announcement either, so it would still not be a very strong claim.

Also, appealing to carrier agnosticism, he forgets about the exodus of people from other carriers to AT&T due to the iphone in the first place, which suggests that a lot of the people who really wanted an iphone have one and a lot switched carriers to do so.

EDIT: I also must add the existence of Europe, where the frequencies are pretty standardized and thus you can basically say that the carriers don't matter. You see Android gaining and gaining (mostly at the cost of Symbian).

http://www.biggtech.com/mobile/android-os-sales-on-sharp-rise-in-europe-but-can-it-sustain_3737.html

 

[bionic77]

The fragmentation is a mess on Android right now with Google not officially backing updates. What's up with that? You see people like CM, AOSP, and Super D E F having to make ROMs for people to enjoy. Android is essentially what the former Windows Mobile community has migrated.

Have to disagree with that statement. Nothing can be as bad as Windows Mobile. Regardless of what phone platform I use in the future, because of past bad experiences with Windows Mobile I will be very reluctant to ever go back to them.

 

[Futureman]

The 3G was two years old when OS 4.0 borked it (it's better with iOS 4.2, though). there are Android devices that are mere months old that don't get the latest software updates from Google.

And Android handset manufacturers don't always care since they are not building a software platform but selling a piece of hardware instead. Google would need to add incentives for the handset manufacturer - or the carrier - to push the update to these devices.

Google has not released a phone that was mere months old and did not get an update. You must be thinking of other manufacturers who freely use Android however they want, and it's up to them to update if they wish. And even then, it's really only recently been Samsung who is getting flamed for not pushing updates. I have a Droid X and it has already got Froyo and will be getting Gingerbread this year.

Google provides a line of phones known as the Nexus series if you want pure, stock Android.

Fragmentation is not an issue really, just a talking point if you are for whatever reason anti-Android. If it's really that SCARY to you, get a Nexus. If there wasn't the "issue" of fragmentation, Android wouldn't be selling 33 million units per quarter.

 

[LCfiner]

Google has not released a phone that was mere months old and did not get an update. You must be thinking of other manufacturers who freely use Android however they want, and it's up to them to update if they wish. And even then, it's really only recently been Samsung who is getting flamed for not pushing updates. I have a Droid X and it has already got Froyo and will be getting Gingerbread this year.

Google provides a line of phones known as the Nexus series if you want pure, stock Android.

Fragmentation is not an issue really, just a talking point if you are for whatever reason anti-Android. If it's really that SCARY to you, get a Nexus. If there wasn't the "issue" of fragmentation, Android wouldn't be selling 33 million units per quarter.

that is exactly what I'm talking about. that is what makes up the majority of Android sales. Nexus one sales were very small. I believe Nexus S are higher? The majority of Android phones are all on various versions of the OS because OS updates need to go through handset makers first.

And fragmentation is an issue for developers. it's silly to deny that it exists. it's just that most people buying Android phones don't care. which is fine.

 

[zoku88]

tAnd fragmentation is an issue for developers. it's silly to deny that it exists. it's just that most people buying Android phones don't care. which is fine.

Issue for developers? Says who?

I see people having troubles with certain hardware, but that's not really an OS issue. And at any point, there's bound to be hardware too weak to handle certain tasks.

On an OS-level, it's not really an issue. The API changes aren't usually that great. Mainly, you could say that there are only two that you worry about. 1.6 and 2.0+. And given taht 90% of android phones run 2.1+, it's not that big of a deal.
http://www.thevarguy.com/2011/01/20/android-os-fragmentation-not-bad-but-hardware-issues-remain/

And since this is mainly a sales thread, isn't the last thing you said the most important?

 

[iamblades]

The android fragmentation issue is more of a developer issue than a consumer issue anyway.

Most consumers don't care which revision of the OS they are running and those that probably run custom roms, or easily could if they really cared about it. All the consumer cares about is if their apps run on it and that it works.

Devs will bitch about having to code for multiple OS revisions, but in the end if that's where the audience is, they will deal with it.

As long as google is smart in how they change the OS to avoid breaking lots of things with each revision, they should be fine.

 

[bionic77]

Fragmentation and mobile OS wars aside, what appears to be the next big thing to be added to the OS?

Everyone seems to have an App store, GPS location, decent to great mobile browsing, Facebook, etc.

I am not sure what WebOS is missing, but Android could use something like Gamecenter or Xbox live and Apple could definitely use a total overall of its archaic notification system (pretty much the only change I want as an iOS user). Apple seems to be adding some kind of payment system, which could be huge if we agree on a standard and retailers play along. What is the next big feature coming from Google or the other OS's?

 

[Futureman]

I am not sure what WebOS is missing, but Android could use something like Gamecenter or Xbox live and Apple could definitely use a total overall of its archaic notification system (pretty much the only change I want as an iOS user). Apple seems to be adding some kind of payment system, which could be huge if we agree on a standard and retailers play along. What is the next big feature coming from Google or the other OS's?

Android is getting the Playstation Suite thing and Android 2.3 also supposedly added a bunch of new APIs for game development.

All phones will probably soon have NFC, which should make mobile payment more ubiquitous.

 

[gcubed]

Fragmentation and mobile OS wars aside, what appears to be the next big thing to be added to the OS?

Everyone seems to have an App store, GPS location, decent to great mobile browsing, Facebook, etc.

I am not sure what WebOS is missing, but Android could use something like Gamecenter or Xbox live and Apple could definitely use a total overall of its archaic notification system (pretty much the only change I want as an iOS user). Apple seems to be adding some kind of payment system, which could be huge if we agree on a standard and retailers play along. What is the next big feature coming from Google or the other OS's?

not sure what you would consider big? native SIP hooks in 2.3 for android is kinda big deal. Hardware acceleration for UI is another big one. After 2.3 you could expect a pretty large UI overhaul if honeycomb is anything to go off of... whenever they start talking about the next phone release. It looks like Google is moving away from being almost a copy of IOS to something a *bit* more unique. IOS is just much smoother with animations and the such much more fleshed out then current versions of android

 

[dofry]

cmd+F 'Meego'. 0 hits. *exit thread*

 

[TheRagnCajun]

The android fragmentation issue is more of a developer issue than a consumer issue anyway.

Most consumers don't care which revision of the OS they are running and those that probably run custom roms, or easily could if they really cared about it. All the consumer cares about is if their apps run on it and that it works.

Devs will bitch about having to code for multiple OS revisions, but in the end if that's where the audience is, they will deal with it.

As long as google is smart in how they change the OS to avoid breaking lots of things with each revision, they should be fine.

This is what I was thinking. If the store is smart it will hide games that are not available on the OS version the user has. So there's no customer confusion. Just download a game and it works. The messy end of things is with the developers, but with enough manpower it can be handled, and there is a big enough market to fund the manpower. Things could be more efficient though.

 

[bionic77]

Hardware acceleration and mobile payments are what I would consider to be big changes. I am always hoping for better battery life as well, but I understand there is only so much you can do.

The PSP thing, while cool, doesn't really interest me because I don't think most PSP games will translate well to a touchscreen. I would rather have people make unique games designed for the system. But I can see why it would be a big deal for some people.

 

[gcubed]

Hardware acceleration and mobile payments are what I would consider to be big changes. I am always hoping for better battery life as well, but I understand there is only so much you can do.

The PSP thing, while cool, doesn't really interest me because I don't think most PSP games will translate well to a touchscreen. I would rather have people make unique games designed for the system. But I can see why it would be a big deal for some people.

2.3 also allows a lot more native access to the graphics hardware under android, so its definitely more gaming focused, although its not out there for anything besides a nexus phone on tmobile so no one can use it yet.

 

[Carl]

Great to see. Been a big fan of Android for ages, great to see it become the biggest OS.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I cannot believe Nokia is growing in the smartphone segment. I feel sorry for anyone who buys their overpriced Symbian abominations.

 

[krypt0nian]

Great to see. Been a big fan of Android for ages, great to see it become the biggest OS.

Android runs iOS now?

 

[PistolGrip]

Nokia will soon move to Android.

SE Playstation Phone.

Sony Playstation Suite for Android.

Clearly Android will continue to see explosive growth in 2011.

 

[gcubed]

Android runs iOS now?

you mean symbian?

 

[krypt0nian]

you mean symbian?

No one in their right mind thinks that.

iPad and iPod run iOS too.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

No one in their right mind thinks that.

iPad and iPod run iOS too.

Only the Touch version.

Symbian has the biggest market-share in the smarthphone market right now.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I own 3, the most recent an xperia x10 mini.

Tell me something, are you a masochist or do you just buy phones without even trying them? The x10 mini is probably the worst phone I've ever used and Android ain't got nothing to do it.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Tell me something, are you a masochist or do you just buy phones without even trying them? The x10 mini is probably the worst phone I've ever used and Android ain't got nothing to do it.

I got the Pro version and it's pretty decent after 2.1 upgrade. For my taste, better than HTC Wildfire.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I got the Pro version and it's pretty decent after 2.1 upgrade. For my taste, better than HTC Wildfire.

Maybe my test unit was screwed or something but the one I've used was appalling. The screen is too small to actually be useful as a touchscreen, the keys on the keyboard are also too small and clicky and the picture on the screen looks smeared constantly. Can't recall if that's a pro or a regular though.

I haven't tried out the Wildfire, that's a mini sized device too isn't it? I guess if you're comparing small handsets it's a different story.

 

[Polk]

I cannot believe Nokia is growing in the smartphone segment. I feel sorry for anyone who buys their overpriced Symbian abominations.

TBH Nokia phones are heavily subsidized in Europe (or at least in Poland).
Plus I don't think I know anyone with Nokia phone using more than some IM program on their "smart"phone that wasn't included in the firmware. They bought the phone because they have fond memories of flagship models, have(had?) decent camera and they were cheaper than any competition (excluding some shitty LG and Samsung phones).

 

[SolsticeZero]

I love Android, and I really like Google's stance on it, but giving every phone manufacturer (and wireless carrier) the power to revamp the OS kind of sucks. Especially for the people who have great phones, but the carrier hasn't even released 2.2 yet (I'm looking at you Samsung). I mean, it's ri-god-damned-diculous that any phone that has the power to run it doesn't have Froyo yet. Hell, my Evo got Froyo pretty damn quick after it came out for the Nexus One.

Other than that, I really, really <3 Android.

 

[Futureman]

Symbian has the biggest market-share in the smarthphone market right now.

Did you read the first post?

As far as I'm concerned, the present numbers are the only numbers that should be looked at. I mean, if you are going to argue Nokia has the largest smartphone install base, what are you going to do? Point to last years numbers?

 

[numble]

Did you read the first post?

As far as I'm concerned, the present numbers are the only numbers that should be looked at. I mean, if you are going to argue Nokia has the largest smartphone install base, what are you going to do? Point to last years numbers?

It's only Q4 sales.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Once they fix stability issues and crashes, Android will be perfect.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

our experiences differ, obviously. iOS 3.0 was decent on my old 3G. And I know several people with older ipod touches and iphones using either iOS 3 or 4 and none of them are cursing their phones.

sure, it's not as responsive as the 3GS or iphone 4, both running at 60 fps UI, but that's to be expected.

On my original iPhone, 2.0 turned it to dog shit. On my current 3GS, 4.0 made it a whole lot slower.

Just my cents

 

[Bungalow Bob]

I don't know about you, but right now I'm playing Game Dev Story on my tiny smartphone X10 mini. If it wasn't for Android, I wouldn't be. I would had to choose between a phone with a huge screen or a small phone running some crappy (almost non)OS.

Ummm... your phone isn't tiny; it's actually bigger than an iphone. It also has a tiny screen with 10% of the resolution of an iphone's.

 

[mckmas8808]

So glad to see Android dominating the world.

 

[MercuryLS]

The only issue I have with Android is all these phone manufacturers adding their own shitty skins to their phones and fucking up the firmware upgrades process as a result.

Leave android alone motherfuckers! It's fine the way it is, let people upgrade to the newest firmware when it comes out rather than 6-12 months afterwards.

 

[rezuth]

Ummm... your phone isn't tiny; it's actually bigger than an iphone. It also has a tiny screen with 10% of the resolution of an iphone's.

No way that my Mini is just 10% smaller. Are you thinking of the normal version?

Edit: It says the screen is 2.55 inches vs iPhone 3.5-inch

Tell me something, are you a masochist or do you just buy phones without even trying them? The x10 mini is probably the worst phone I've ever used and Android ain't got nothing to do it.

I have used a lot of phones in my days and the x10 mini pro is far from the worst. I did give up on it after some weeks when I was not required to use it anymore.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Maybe my test unit was screwed or something but the one I've used was appalling. The screen is too small to actually be useful as a touchscreen, the keys on the keyboard are also too small and clicky and the picture on the screen looks smeared constantly. Can't recall if that's a pro or a regular though.

I haven't tried out the Wildfire, that's a mini sized device too isn't it? I guess if you're comparing small handsets it's a different story.

The keyboard is great for my taste. I don't have big fingers, so my typing is quite precise. The screen is small, but Sony Ericsson did an OK job adjusting the UI. The screen definitely isn't smeared constantly on my unit.

Wildfire is HTC's entry level product. It's a rounded product, but it has a hideous looking screen. 320x240 and 3.2" do not go well together.

TBH Nokia phones are heavily subsidized in Europe (or at least in Poland).
Plus I don't think I know anyone with Nokia phone using more than some IM program on their "smart"phone that wasn't included in the firmware. They bought the phone because they have fond memories of flagship models, have(had?) decent camera and they were cheaper than any competition (excluding some shitty LG and Samsung phones).

Nokia is definitely running on old fame. They haven't released a good product with a good value for money index since N95. They're 2 generations behind most of their competitors.

[

 

[markot]

I got a Nokia N8 and its great >.<

I hope they dont jump on the Android ship and stick to symbian, I like it.

 

[Bungalow Bob]

Ummm... your phone isn't tiny; it's actually bigger than an iphone. It also has a tiny screen with 10% of the resolution of an iphone's.

No way that my Mini is just 10% smaller. Are you thinking of the normal version?

Edit: It says the screen is 2.55 inches vs iPhone 3.5-inch

I have used a lot of phones in my days and the x10 mini pro is far from the worst. I did give up on it after some weeks when I was not required to use it anymore.

Read what I wrote again; you're confusing phone size with screen size with screen resolution. To sum it up, the iphone is smaller than the Mini, has a much larger screen, and has 1000% (that's right, 1000) of the resolution that the Mini has.

 

[clav]

Have to disagree with that statement. Nothing can be as bad as Windows Mobile. Regardless of what phone platform I use in the future, because of past bad experiences with Windows Mobile I will be very reluctant to ever go back to them.

What are you disagreeing? People who used to own Windows Mobile phones now are on Android because they can treat it the same way.

You get a ROM and customize the crap out of it to your liking. I had to do that with my friend's G1 last month as I went through a tedious process of downgrading to 1.4, flashing a recovery manager (5 times since the cyan version didn't work), then flash a base, flash a radio, and finally flash the ROM (Super D) which apparently has a GTalk issue.

Then setup the SD card with apps2SD by partitioning it with a ext3 then FAT32 partitions and then customize the backgrounds/icons/launchers to your liking. Took me a whole afternoon to do that.

You use app closers because multitasking is poor and eats up battery life which is what also happened on Windows Mobile.

Android has a better base and support than Windows Mobile did.

I do a similar fashion with my Windows Mobile phone. I cooked my own ROM, flashed a base, flashed a radio, and flashed my ROM. Then I install apps to my liking and customize my backgrounds+ lockscreens.

Like I said earlier, I'll jump to Android Honeycomb if WP7 doesn't mature to my liking by then as it'll also depend what Sprint will do with its phones. At least with WP7 there is some hardware standards and GPU acceleration.

 

[zoku88]

What are you disagreeing? People who used to own Windows Mobile phones now are on Android because they can treat it the same way.

You get a ROM and customize the crap out of it to your liking. I had to do that with my friend's G1 last month. Android has a better base and support than Windows Mobile did.

I believe your statement could be taken in multiple ways.

Adding 'userbase' to your previous quote would've been more clear (even though I understood it to mean that anyway.)

 

[rezuth]

Read what I wrote again; you're confusing phone size with screen size with screen resolution. To sum it up, the iphone is smaller than the Mini, has a much larger screen, and has 1000% (that's right, 1000) of the resolution that the Mini has.

Fair enough but I fail to see how its bigger unless you are somehow counting area.