He does have a sleeveless one that would also seem an unwise choice besides showing off his muscular armsDoes Geralt have an outfit with an exposed midriff, I wonder
And as mentioned can you also play like this if you want
options are nice
He does have a sleeveless one that would also seem an unwise choice besides showing off his muscular armsDoes Geralt have an outfit with an exposed midriff, I wonder
I read books and play videogames for wholly different reasons. And yes I do both. And no not only manga and Halo novelizations.I think that's exactly the problem. The folks who are okay with this sort of thing are the kinds of people who turn off their brain to consume whatever media they consume. They don't care to put even the slightest inkling of thought into the way the character they're playing would think, and so they don't even question it when the choice of clothing is completely inconsistent with the characterization.
I think a lot of this boils down to a lack of reading. People just don't read enough books. They don't get into other people's heads, so the concept is foreign to them. It's a problem on a very fundamental level.
Which is why I've not really taken to arguing with folks over it lately. It's a more deep-seated issue than any argument I can produce will help them get over. All I can do is suggest that people read more books. Preferably books with protagonists that are unlike themselves.
"It's a video game" really discredits the amount of artistry that much go in a game. Or any artistic product really.
Are you new to the Internet? Conversations going on tangents that aren't necessarily related to the OP is a normal part of conversation here.It's also not very productive to come into a thread to make generalization about people you are arguing (Read more books lol) with and resorting to ad hominem, but OK?
Also you quoted a post that was referring to me so
I'll note that we're usually not discussing games with player-created characters here. That's its own ball of wax. I'll also note that I don't actually have anything specifically against optional outfits that may happen to hew more on the sexy side. If the marketing doesn't center on it, then it's just... whatever. It's there, you can do what you like with it.I read books and play videogames for wholly different reasons. And yes I do both. And no not only manga and Halo novelizations.
What a load of nonsense. It's not a problem on any level that people want to enjoy videogames the way they do.
books and movies are experiences that are supposed to be had in one specific way. The characters act (and dress) in the way the author intended and ONLY in that way. That's why it's very important how exactly they are portrayed. Games are not, they personal interactive experiences. If I decide to let my character wear the most nonsensical outfit and run in circles for an hour because I enjoy it, that's my choice and it doesn't affect you or anyone else's experience. It doesn't mean "hurr durr I'm dumb and don't read books" That's the fundamental difference people can't seem to understand. The author's intent only only matters so much, unless you make a completely narrative driven on rails experience.
Games are made with varying degrees of freedom and player choice exactly so anyone can have the experience they want.
I can't believe some people are blowing Aloy's outfit out of proportion, it isn't even sexy lmao
I'll note that we're usually not discussing games with player-created characters here. That's its own ball of wax. I'll also note that I don't actually have anything specifically against optional outfits that may happen to hew more on the sexy side. If the marketing doesn't center on it, then it's just... whatever. It's there, you can do what you like with it.
I am talking more about the sort of idiocy you see in games like Street Fighter V, where the outfit design actively gets in the way of proper characterization. It's impossible for me to take Cammy seriously as a character when she's somehow producing packages out of her bumhole and walking around with her buttcheeks exposed all the time with no reasoning for it. It's completely immersion-breaking. If the leotard were a joke outfit you could optionally dress her in, that'd be one thing. When it's what she's shown wearing all the time, it is entirely another.
Speaking of, Nier's 2B wearing a thong definitely falls under this category for me as well. It just doesn't make sense. The heels likewise, though that may just me having a hate-on for heels (seriously, fuck them, you'd have to pay me to wear them). If that were simply a player option that'd be one thing, but no - it's her default outfit, a designer consciously put her into it, and there's nothing about her characterization that makes it clear why she would dress like that. It's nonsense.
I'd prefer you not disingenuously defend this sort of tripe behind a "but player agency!" shield when we're talking about things that don't involve any player agency whatsoever. If something is not optional, then the only option we have to avoid it is to not play. That's not acceptable, and removes that particular excuse from the table. They can do better.
It's absolutely disrespectful. You're basically saying "I don't expect artists to make sense and to put more thought into their work."It doesn't at all. See above. "It's a video game" doesn't mean "It's just a video game". It's not derogatory. It means it's a medium with its own rules, where a lot more should be allowed to be the choice of the player.
Ha, I'm not being critical. Just some lighthearted humor. I agree it's refreshing to see female protags in three major games like this. I'll actually remember these characters, whereas all of the 30-something brown-haired white guys blur together after a while.
Not judging, but I feel that mostly people here are happy about these female leads so they get to play character they find sexy. Rather than women getting respectful representation in games. Kinda like choosing a female character in MMO for example to dress her in bikini armor.
I'm glad not every video game developer thinks that way.It's absolutely disrespectful. You're basically saying "I don't expect artists to make sense and to put more thought into their work."
If someone told me "it doesn't have to make sense" i'd be incredibly insulted by the insinuation that I shouldn't put more thought into things.
A large contingent of them do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.I'm glad not every video game developer thinks that way.
A large contingent of them do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
"just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
It's absolutely disrespectful. You're basically saying "I don't expect artists to make sense and to put more thought into their work."
If someone told me "it doesn't have to make sense" i'd be incredibly insulted by the insinuation that I shouldn't put more thought into things.
Seems like you are judging though lol, since you're generalizing and all
A large contingent of them do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
A large contingent of them do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
The rule of cool holds as true in the West as it does the East but what's cool in the West is obviously different than the East. Anything involving super heroes basically revolves around this.
Except Robot Dinosaurs. I think thats universally cool.
You completely misunderstand me.RE: Nier, I'm not going to defend it. NieR is NieR, Yoko Taro is Yoko Taro. This is made for a specific audience and if that's not you, too bad. I can understand why this makes you not want to play it, but that's your choice. Not everything is for everyone.
If you took out over the top nonsense and sexy costumes from Street Fighter I would be considerably less interested. I don't want immersion or believable characters, I want craziness. So you either have a game that's for me or one that's for you and that' pretty much mutually exclusive. Neither of us is better than the other because of that and your standards aren't higher. We just like different stuff
A large contingent of them do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
I was about to edit the mostly, to many to be more accurate. But nah not judging, I don't mind attractive women either. But I'm not gonna applaud at every female lead just because.
I do think that female characters can be sexy and great characters at the same time. But some designs go way over the top.
Edit: I'd be interested to play all the games mentioned in the OP if they were on PC.
It's absolutely disrespectful. You're basically saying "I don't expect artists to make sense and to put more thought into their work."
If someone told me "it doesn't have to make sense" i'd be incredibly insulted by the insinuation that I shouldn't put more thought into things.
But those are all strawman arguments no one actually makes. The stuff on the bingo card is there because people actually use these arguments, lol.I mean, I get the impulse. Rebutting bullshit is tiring. But, like, those aren't supposed to convince anyone, right? An uncharitable person could make an "SJW Complaints Bingo Card" with spaces like, "I need realism in my magic space adventure" or "You're being disrespectful to this collection of pixels" or "Developers should make the story I want instead of what they want to do," and it would be just as shitty.
Ugh, no. There is nothing cool about high heels, especially not for combat settings.Kicking ass in heels is badass and looks cool. Rule of cool in full effect.
Er no. Arms don't need as much protection as vital organs, and for once the "more mobility" argument would actually work in favour of that. Where's Geralt's exposed mid-riff chest piece? Where's his partially unbuttoned shirt or open jacket look? Where's his speedo armour, his ass-window pants, his random-patches-of-exposed-skin set, his kinky skintight black leather suit, his <insert super-common "female" armour look>, etc.He does have a sleeveless one that would also seem an unwise choice besides showing off his muscular arms
What is that? Just removing all chest equipment?And as mentioned can you also play like this if you want
Let me know when the "options" are not horribly skewed towards one particular demographics, please.options are nice
^5I would just like to see the scales tip a little closer towards a balance. Be a little less outrageously sexist in their presentation. Is that really too much to ask? Apparently, judging from some of the responses here, the answer is yes. That's just bloody depressing, man.
Ugh, no. There is nothing cool about high heels, especially not for combat settings.
...you mean all those scenes that do nothing but show Luna suffering and motivating herself to push through through her love of her man, and if kept, not only would have added literally nothing to the plot, would have done the seemingly impossible feat of making an unbelievably awful female character even worse?Beside that just dont force or change something because some people might not like it. *Looking at you cut Luna scenes from FFXV*.
Beside that just dont force or change something because some people might not like it. *Looking at you cut Luna scenes from FFXV*.
...you mean all those scenes that do nothing but show Luna suffering and motivating herself to push through her love of her man, and if kept, not only would have added literally nothing to the plot, would have done the seemingly impossible feat of making an unbelievably awful female character even worse?
What is this thread anymore.
Yep.It's important to not view this stuff in completely binary terms- a game can have female characters who are well-written/empowered/not-just-objects/etc *and* have elements that are primarily there to pander to the male audience with sex, and neither of them should automatically cancel out the other. If anything I'd argue that completely dismissing a character as a sexual object who is solely meant to pander to men just because of an outfit they wear or a pose/animation they have is *way* more problematic than the shit that some of y'all are complaining about in this thread.
I mean I thought the whole "you will be ashamed of your words and deeds" bit over Quiet was dumb too don't get me wrong but "THIS ONE OUTFIT EXPOSES HER MIDRIFF, GAME RUINED" is also pretty fuckin' stupid.
i think high heels look super cool 😎Ugh, no. There is nothing cool about high heels, especially not for combat settings.
Er no. Arms don't need as much protection as vital organs, and for once the "more mobility" argument would actually work in favour of that. Where's Geralt's exposed mid-riff chest piece? Where's his partially unbuttoned shirt or open jacket look? Where's his speedo armour, his ass-window pants, his random-patches-of-exposed-skin set, his kinky skintight black leather suit, his <insert super-common "female" armour look>, etc.
Let me know when the "options" are not horribly skewed towards one particular demographics, please.
^5
I assumed we were still talking about Horizon which has none of that except for some midriff in a tropical setting.Er no. Arms don't need as much protection as vital organs, and for once the "more mobility" argument would actually work in favour of that. Where's Geralt's exposed mid-riff chest piece? Where's his partially unbuttoned shirt or open jacket look? Where's his speedo armour, his ass-window pants, his random-patches-of-exposed-skin set, his kinky skintight black leather suit, his <insert super-common "female" armour look>, etc.
Yea, but I can also guarantee you that you won't see anything like that in Horizon because people would lose their minds. I imagine there won't even be an option to remove all armor to see an undershirt.What is that? Just removing all chest equipment?
Again, I thought we were talking about Horizon. So far there appears to be only one outfit that shows some midriff.Let me know when the "options" are not horribly skewed towards one particular demographics, please.
Wait, what is wrong with her outfit? Lmao
But those are all strawman arguments no one actually makes. The stuff on the bingo card is there because people actually use these arguments, lol.
Only 1 of those 3 doesn't sexualize their protagonists in anyway sho i'm most excited for that oe and not very interested at all in the other two.
Which one is that?
Well we will probably never know how it actually would have been. But keeping just ONE scene where she is ill and powerless was just so stupid and made no sense. It was like: "Uh what actually happened and what does that mean?"....you mean all those scenes that do nothing but show Luna suffering and motivating herself to push through through her love of her man, and if kept, not only would have added literally nothing to the plot, would have done the seemingly impossible feat of making an unbelievably awful female character even worse?
Wait, what is wrong with her outfit? Lmao
Ugh, no. There is nothing cool about high heels, especially not for combat settings.
A large contingent of them do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
Speaking of, Nier's 2B wearing a thong definitely falls under this category for me as well. It just doesn't make sense. The heels likewise, though that may just me having a hate-on for heels (seriously, fuck them, you'd have to pay me to wear them). If that were simply a player option that'd be one thing, but no - it's her default outfit, a designer consciously put her into it, and there's nothing about her characterization that makes it clear why she would dress like that. It's nonsense.
This is an all-time great NeoGAF post.
Btw, when you say "we", are you including yourself?