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Aonuma: Switch doesn't mean that the concept of a dedicated handheld will disappear

KingSnake

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Isn't this whole discussion more about the 3DS software though? Some people probably would forgo buying games on 3DS if they are told the Switch will get similar games in a year or two...
So when they announced a new FE coming in 2018 they killed the FE coming on 3ds in May?
 

KingSnake

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And I don't get what's wrong with the "Switch being sold out" argument. If the Switch has a very hard production cap for its launch month, what does Nintendo have to gain by saying it will replace the 3DS before it launches?



Potentially, yeah. Although that isn't the best example because FE has been on consoles quite a bit. A better example would be Monster Hunter. If you could buy Monster Hunter XX on Switch this March, why would you buy it on 3DS? Besides the fact that the Switch might be sold out?
People will get a Switch in April or in May then. It's a non issue. You're inventing solutions to problems that don't exist.
 
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But honestly, if they combined teams and manage to share assets and port titles between the Switch and this hypothetical 3DS successor to the extent that the two will essentially have increased output and a similar library as you're suggesting, then more power to them. That would be fine with most people I'd imagine.
I'm not fine with that. What do we gain in that situation? Two devices with mostly the same software only on different cartridges? Why would you do that if you already have a totally capable handheld? That's just wasting resources and development time for no reason.

If they want to release another version of the Switch that's more compact and doesn't come with the dock or whatever, that's fine. It'd still play the exact same library of games. But why would you ever develop the same game for 2 different handhelds? That just makes no sense to me.

Nintendo is just really bad with their messaging. It's like orioto said. Just be clear that the Switch is the future, but 3DS will get support the coming year(s). You already see people getting confused and soured about the Switch in this thread. You don't want that to happen with your new system that's not even out yet. Yeah the pre-orders might sell out, but this is a device you're going to need to sell and support the coming years, not just the first few months. And if they truly are looking to release another dedicated handheld totally unrelated to Switch then... well, I'm not quite sure what to say.
 

Agent Unknown

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They reeeeally need to give this bit of messaging a rest already. I get that they want to ensure that they have a dedicated handheld option at some point due to the 3DS install base but with Kimishima stating this it was enough. With Aonuma jumping on now it's just getting annoying and repeating this without clarification undercuts both the anticipation and trust for Switch as Nintendo's core product going forward and the reasonable expectation folks have that they should be sticking to Iwata's vision of a unified development platform to ensure droughts are much less common.
 

Skittzo0413

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People will get a Switch in April or in May then. It's a non issue. You're inventing solutions to problem that don't exist.
We're talking right now about PR messaging that's happening before launch. If the Switch continues to sell out after its launch month, Nintendo will likely continue to use this messaging. If its sales start to slow down, then Nintendo might let Game Freak announce Pokemon Stars for Switch in April or May which would signal that the Switch will be replacing the 3DS, without them even having to say so.

It's really the same exact "third pillar" situation. There are a lot of parallels.


EDIT: I should note that I completely agree that this messaging is stupid and the strategy behind it doesn't make much sense, but I can at least see that these PR responses are not to be taken literally.
 

KingSnake

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We're talking right now about PR messaging that's happening before launch. If the Switch continues to sell out after its launch month, Nintendo will likely continue to use this messaging. If its sales start to slow down, then Nintendo might let Game Freak announce Pokemon Stars for Switch in April or May which would signal that the Switch will be replacing the 3DS, without them even having to say so.
You're shifting the discussion and avoiding the answer.

What would be the problem from Nintendo's point of view if somebody buys a Switch in March, April or May instead of a 3ds in February? They are selling somebody into an ecosystem that will have much more NIntendo games to sell so potential more money to make out of that customer.
 

VanWinkle

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I pray that he's wrong. One of the best potential things about the Switch is consolidated Nintendo development on one platform, which also means big handheld mainstays on the Switch. It's an exciting prospect. "Just" a Wii U where you can take it beyond just your home is not as exciting by any means.
 

orioto

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Like I said in my edit, if you tell people they'll get similar games on the Switch in a year or two, that would surely dissuade people from buying those games on the 3DS.

And I don't get what's wrong with the "Switch being sold out" argument. If the Switch has a very hard production cap for its launch month, what does Nintendo have to gain by saying it will replace the 3DS before it launches?



Potentially, yeah. Although that isn't the best example because FE has been on consoles quite a bit. A better example would be Monster Hunter or Pokemon. If you could buy Monster Hunter XX or Pokemon Sun&Moon on Switch this March, why would you buy it on 3DS? Besides the fact that the Switch might be sold out?
That's a more valid point already.
But that only works if some 3ds games released this year will also come on Switch. Then it could lower those sales.

But.. Nintendo can still say, 3ds has more exclusive games coming in the next months, while sequels of those games will be on Switch after that. What's so hard to say about that ?

That's all we want to hear really. That 3ds ips and efforts will move to Switch in the next 2 years.
 

brad-t

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Nintendo isn't going to say that they're abandoning a platform that they're still selling.
 

RobFox64tm

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No, it won't disappear, but I am almost positive any dedicated new handheld will be Switch in a different form factor. There's no reason anymore to have two different ecosystems.
 

superchunk

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I certainly hope that is just PR until Switch proves it has a base. Nintendo moving to a unified base where 100% of development effort is on Switch is a very good move IMO.
 

E_Darkness

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I mean this is what I thought and also want.

I love the dedicated handheld too much and the Switch is less of a unification of handheld/console but more of a console that can be portable.
 

Schnozberry

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It's an answer in an interview to a question that has nothing to do with 3ds, not a statement in the investor meeting.
I understand that, but Kimishima made a similar statement yesterday in Nikkei. It seems like an effort is being made to get this particular message across at a key time.
 

Skittzo0413

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You're shifting the discussion and avoiding the answer.

What would be the problem from Nintendo's point of view if somebody buys a Switch in March, April or May instead of a 3ds in February? They are selling somebody into an ecosystem that will have much more NIntendo games to sell so potential more money to make out of that customer.
I'm not saying there is a problem with that. All I'm saying is that they don't need to be truthful about the 3DS's future in order to get those sales, as they will come anyway. If they were truthful they could lose 3DS hardware and software sales in the meantime. I agree it doesn't worth it, and doesn't seem like the smartest strategy, but I can at least understand their reasoning behind it.

That's a more valid point already.
But that only works if some 3ds games released this year will also come on Switch. Then it could lower those sales.

But.. Nintendo can still say, 3ds has more exclusive games coming in the next months, while sequels of those games will be on Switch after that. What's so hard to say about that ?

That's all we want to hear really. That 3ds ips and efforts will move to Switch in the next 2 years.
They could say that but I don't think any platform holder ever has said anything like that. You saw so many people here on GAF already selling their Wii U's the second the Switch was announced- if they knew it was going to replace the 3DS and get the same 3DS franchises- even if they aren't the exact same games- you don't think a good chunk of people would have sold their 3DS's too?

Basically this:

Nintendo isn't going to say that they're abandoning a platform that they're still selling.
No platform holders do that. Ever.
 

clevbrowns94

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Yeah, that would be extremely foolish. The main advantage of the Switch is consolidated first party development and they can avoid software droughts that way. A new handheld negates that. Plus, what kind of specs would have in the new handheld without having a really high price? The Switch is already very powerful from a handheld perspective.
 

Vena

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This and the previous thread continue to amuse. Some of you are digging for controversy. There is nothing outlandish or even crazy about these statements.
 

KingSnake

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I'm not saying there is a problem with that. All I'm saying is that they don't need to be truthful about the 3DS's future in order to get those sales, as they will come anyway. If they were truthful they could lose 3DS hardware and software sales in the meantime. I agree it doesn't worth it, and doesn't seem like the smartest strategy, but I can at least understand their reasoning behind it.
It's risking the long term success for short term gain. Sure, everything might turn out OK in the end, but why risk it? Especially after Wii U.

And hopefully the idea of a future handheld not related to Switch is just a misunderstanding.
 

Okami Haundo

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Nintendo isn't going to say that they're abandoning a platform that they're still selling.
You've summed things up perfectly. It seems like some people expect them to do that which just doesn't make sense. Sony and Microsoft didn't announce Xbox One/PS4 and say that Xbox 360/PS3 support is ending by X date. Nor would they say that X franchise is done on their old platform.
 

KingSnake

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You've summed things up perfectly. It seems like some people expect them to do that which just doesn't make sense. Sony and Microsoft didn't announce Xbox One/PS4 and say that Xbox 360/PS3 support is ending by X date. Nor would they say that X franchise is done on their old platform.
They don't have to say they're abandoning the 3ds, That's the whole point. They said already that they are supporting 3ds until 2018, they have announced quite a lot of games for 2017, exclusive games even. That should be pretty sufficient to convey the message that they don't kill the 3ds.

They don't need to go overboard and kill the Switch messaging in the process, really.
 

orioto

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They could say that but I don't think any platform holder ever has said anything like that. You saw so many people here on GAF already selling their Wii U's the second the Switch was announced- if they knew it was going to replace the 3DS and get the same 3DS franchises- even if they aren't the exact same games- you don't think a good chunk of people would have sold their 3DS's too?
That still doesn't make any sense.

Look

In a world where they lose one 3ds owner cause he buys a Switch. HOW THE FUCK is it a problem ? When you have a new product, that's the one you want to install and sell..

You realize, you,and Nintendo are basically saying "we prefer people to buy our old product rather than the new one" In what world is that a strategy a firm has ??

And hey, let's say Pokemon sells one less copy, cause that guy will buy Stars on Switch after that. How is that a problem ? You still sell a Pokemon! Oh and maybe you wanted to sell 2 then. But if a guy can and want to buy Pokemon on 3ds then on Switch after that, well.. he's going to do it anyway you know.. Cause he's a friggin collector.

And if that guy is not a collector, and he's going to buy just one, then what's the problem if he buys the Switch version instead of the 3ds version.. Hell, the Switch version will probably be more expensive.
 

Skittzo0413

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It's risking the long term success for short term gain. Sure, everything might turn out OK in the end, but why risk it? Especially after Wii U.

And hopefully the idea of a future handheld not related to Switch is just a misunderstanding.
I don't think it's much of a risk because I don't think this messaging will last very long. The second Pokemon Stars is announced as a Switch exclusive all of this PR is moot.

And it seems pretty likely that the future handheld talk is a misunderstanding, as this is still the only instance of somebody potentially suggesting a future handheld will come with non-Switch architecture.

That still doesn't make any sense.

Look

In a world where they lose one 3ds owner cause he buys a Switch. HOW THE FUCK is it a problem ? When you have a new product, that's the one you want to install and sell..

You realize, you,and Nintendo are basically saying "we prefer people to buy our old product rather than the new one" In what world is that a strategy a firm has ??

And hey, let's say Pokemon sells one less copy, cause that guy will buy Stars on Switch after that. How is that a problem ? You still sell a Pokemon! Oh and maybe you wanted to sell 2 then. But if a guy can and want to buy Pokemon on 3ds then on Switch after that, well.. he's going to do it anyway you know.. Cause he's a friggin collector.

And if that guy is not a collector, and he's going to buy just one, then what's the problem if he buys the Switch version instead of the 3ds version.. Hell, the Switch version will probably be more expensive.
It's a problem because essentially every other platform holder who has a platform that is still selling does the same thing. You don't want to lose any revenue from your current revenue stream if you can manage it.

Nintendo will have no problem selling Switches for the first few months. They have absolutely no need of the 3DS audience to do so. The only thing explicitly talking about dropping 3DS support will do is potentially risk 3DS related revenue, since it can't possibly increase Switch revenue in the first few months.

Then after a few months, Pokemon will be announced and some of those 3DS owners will start migrating to Switch, when it could use the sales.
 

Okami Haundo

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They don't have to say they're abandoning the 3ds, That's the whole point. They said already that they are supporting 3ds until 2018, they have announced quite a lot of games for 2017, exclusive games even. That should be pretty sufficient to convey the message that they don't kill the 3ds.

They don't need to go overboard and kill the Switch messaging in the process, really.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that their comments "kill" the Switch messaging.
 

brad-t

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Saying that a hypothetical next-gen handheld-only device could exist maybe at some unspecified point in the future doesn't "kill the Switch's messaging." Like three dozen people on Earth give a shit about this. Chill out.
 

orioto

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I don't think it's much of a risk because I don't think this messaging will last very long. The second Pokemon Stars is announced as a Switch exclusive all of this PR is moot.

And it seems pretty likely that the future handheld talk is a misunderstanding, as this is still the only instance of somebody potentially suggesting a future handheld will come with non-Switch architecture.



It's a problem because essentially every other platform holder who has a platform that is still selling does the same thing. You don't want to lose any revenue from your current revenue stream if you can manage it.

Nintendo will have no problem selling Switches for the first few months. They have absolutely no need of the 3DS audience to do so. The only thing explicitly talking about dropping 3DS support will do is potentially risk 3DS related revenue, since it can't possibly increase Switch revenue in the first few months.

Then after a few months, Pokemon will be announced and some of those 3DS owners will start migrating to Switch, when it could use the sales.
You have to stop with that sold out argument.. I can order as many switches i want in France, and of course the launching numbers will be good. But what after one year ? What if it starts slow and then SE or Pokemon devs, or Capcom decides this is not good enough for them and wait...

Of course if in the end their dedicated handled is compatible, this is not such a problem. But we have no confirmation of anything. Just wishful thinking.
 

MoonFrog

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That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that their comments "kill" the Switch messaging. In fact, saying the opposite or even nothing at all seems like it would be more likely to "kill" the 3DS. They want people to adopt Switch, but they don't want BOTH Wii-U and 3DS owners to feel like they own a dead platform.
1) It sends forums like this into a tizzy. Not very important to Nintendo but it confuses the fuck out of us and our hype levels and expectations.

2) They need to get Japan to buy the console. Maybe they'll go for a hybrid. But a) Wii U's off-TV was not interesting to Japan and b) handhelds have been interesting to Japan. Japan makes up a full third of 3DS sales, their only current successful platform.

3) They need to convince what third party support they have on 3DS that Switch is a viable market for them.
 

KingSnake

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That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that their comments "kill" the Switch messaging. In fact, saying the opposite or even nothing at all seems like it would be more likely to "kill" the 3DS. They want people to adopt Switch, but they don't want BOTH Wii-U and 3DS owners to feel like they own a dead platform.
But they announced a lot of 3ds games and they announced they support 3ds until 2018.

They already did what was necessary to avoid hurting 3ds' owners feelings.

And most people are not snowflakes and are not hurt by the fact that a new device is coming to the market. If Apple teaches us something is that actually a lot of people are looking forward for the successor of a device they loved.

Crippling Switch's message to go beyond that is almost absurd. Because Switch's main reason to exist is that's a hybrid.
 

Okami Haundo

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But they announced a lot of 3ds games and they announced they support 3ds until 2018.

They already did what was necessary to avoid hurting 3ds' owners feelings.

And most people are not snowflakes and are not hurt by the fact that a new device is coming to the market. If Apple teaches us something is that actually a lot of people are looking forward for the successor of a device they loved.

Crippling Switch's message to go beyond that is almost absurd. Because Switch's main reason to exist is that's a hybrid.
I definitely agree with you here, but I don't think that these statements cripple Switch's messaging. They just re-affirm the first point you made about pledged support for 3DS. These are high-level people being asked the same question by multiple sources. They aren't going to give an answer once and then say "sorry, I've already talked about that to X outlet" when asked again.
 

Skittzo0413

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You have to stop with that sold out argument.. I can order as many switches i want in France, and of course the launching numbers will be good. But what after one year ? What if it starts slow and then SE or Pokemon devs, or Capcom decides this is not good enough for them and wait...

Of course if in the end their dedicated handled is compatible, this is not such a problem. But we have no confirmation of anything. Just wishful thinking.
First off, what is wrong with that argument? You can still get as many pre-orders in France as you want? That's pretty surprising since I thought the majority of Europe was sold out. But even so, the Switch will put up very good numbers globally for the first 2-3 months. Nintendo can only manufacture 2 million in month 1, so they seem to have a hard cap for sales.

Secondly, why are you talking about years? I explicitly said (and have said over and over again) that I expect this messaging to change in just a few months after launch. Possible as soon as April or May, and definitely no later than June. Eurogamer has a very good track record when it comes to rumors and they seem quite confident that Pokemon Stars will be a Switch exclusive this holiday. That being announced will immediately override all of this messaging that the Switch won't be the 3DS successor. Nintendo won't even have to explicitly address this- a mainline Pokemon exclusive to the device will do that automatically.

If it gets to be July or later and they still maintain that the Switch isn't replacing the 3DS and that there is going to be a 3DS successor not related to the Switch coming, then I'll join you in panicking. Right now Nintendo is just doing what every other console maker does when a new console launches.
 

Okami Haundo

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Oh, so you're not actually interested in a rational discussion.
Nope, not at all. It's physically impossible to make jokes AND have a discussion at the same time. Realistically, that was a dick move on my part and it does contradict my attempts at discussion. I'll edit.
 

orioto

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First off, what is wrong with that argument? You can still get as many pre-orders in France as you want? That's pretty surprising since I thought the majority of Europe was sold out. But even so, the Switch will put up very good numbers globally for the first 2-3 months. Nintendo can only manufacture 2 million in month 1, so they seem to have a hard cap for sales.

Secondly, why are you talking about years? I explicitly said (and have said over and over again) that I expect this messaging to change in just a few months after launch. Possible as soon as April or May, and definitely no later than June. Eurogamer has a very good track record when it comes to rumors and they seem quite confident that Pokemon Stars will be a Switch exclusive this holiday. That being announced will immediately override all of this messaging that the Switch won't be the 3DS successor. Nintendo won't even have to explicitly address this- a mainline Pokemon exclusive to the device will do that automatically.

If it gets to be July or later and they still maintain that the Switch isn't replacing the 3DS and that there is going to be a 3DS successor not related to the Switch coming, then I'll join you in panicking. Right now Nintendo is just doing what every other console maker does when a new console launches.
Well i'm sorry see by yourself

Now of course if everything you say out of your ass is true, then it's ok. But we know absolutely nothing about the things you say without any doubt. Pokemon being announced mid year etc.. That's vapor.

I can do that to. I can think "yeahh no problem, cause by end of the year we'll have a new Yokai, monster hunter, animal crossing announced so the transition will be smooth.

It's just you know, Nintendo doesn't want you to know the console will be amazing with all those great ips yet cause shit, it would be a mess if it sells too much this year."
 

KingSnake

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I definitely agree with you here, but I don't think that these statements cripple Switch's messaging. They just re-affirm the first point you made about pledged support for 3DS. These are high-level people being asked the same question by multiple sources. They aren't going to give an answer once and then say "sorry, I've already talked about that to X outlet" when asked again.
The problem is that most logical reason for Switch to be a hybrid is to converge the console and handheld audience into one install base. If you exclude the biggest audience from its message you're crippling the potential. Think just about Japan and what message this sends.
 

NolbertoS

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As I wrote inthe Kimishima 3DS thread, Nintendo should keep quiet about their 3DS plans. The more they blab abd pkay the denisl game, the more confused the market is about Switch being successful at launch. I know Iwata stated the next console will be a unified hybrid. Maybe Kimishina has a new direction and honestly dont like gis PR speak about confusion. Nintendo should keep their mouths shut and after Switch launch, talk about 3DS
 
D

Deleted member 752119

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As with others, I'm guessing this just means we'll get a smaller handheld only Switch at some point.

I certainly hope so. They'd be foolish to split their development again. Too many, myself included, found both the Wii U and 3DS individual libraries a little lacking (yes, I know plenty loved both individually as well). But combined together its a damn solid library. Having all those games in one place going forward is what sold me on Switch despite not liking the hardware or pricing much.
 

Lichter

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That statement weakens my willing to keep my pre-order. I want Nintendo to fully support the Switch, not another handheld with it.
 

Okami Haundo

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The problem is that most logical reason for Switch to be a hybrid is to converge the console and handheld audience into one install base. If you exclude the biggest audience from its message you're crippling the potential. Think just about Japan and what message this sends.
I definitely agree with your logic that Switch "should" converge the console and handheld audience. I just don't think that keeping the 3DS alive for just a bit longer is as harmful as you believe it is.

It seems like a "short term goal" to squeeze some extra profits from that hardware, but that fits Nintendo's conservative approach. They want Switch to succeed, but this is the difference between guaranteed money on 3DS and the unknown prospect of convincing current 3DS owners to adopt Switch earlier.

There's also the idea that people who are now buying a 3DS for the first time are investing in a piece of tech that's about to be 6 years old. That seems to suggest they're "late adopters" and definitely not as willing to buy the Switch on day one. Why would Nintendo want to exclude those people from their messaging? If we get to 2018 and Nintendo still has "big" exclusive games slated to continue releasing on 3DS, I'd say they're crippling Switch. Right now, I just can't see that being the case.
 

Skittzo0413

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Well i'm sorry see by yourself

Now of course if everything you say out of your ass is true, then it's ok. But we know absolutely nothing about the things you say without any doubt. Pokemon being announced mid year etc.. That's vapor.

I can do that to. I can think "yeahh no problem, cause by end of the year we'll have a new Yokai, monster hunter, animal crossing announced so the transition will be smooth.

It's just you know, Nintendo doesn't want you to know the console will be amazing with all those great ips yet cause shit, it would be a mess if it sells too much this year."
If you're going to discount my statement about Pokemon as being "out of my ass" when it's backed up by one of the largest gaming publications, then I don't really know what I can say to convince you. Officially, right now Nintendo's PR is making it look like the Switch won't replace the 3DS. I can't argue with that.

All I can say is that, officially, Nintendo's PR did the exact same thing with the DS, and look how that worked out for them.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

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That statement weakens my willing to keep my pre-order. I want Nintendo to fully support the Switch, not another handheld with it.
I sort of agree, but decided yesterday that I'm not going to waffle on my preorder any more.

If nothing else, Nintendo stuff tends to hold value so if it's into 2018 and beyond and I see it gathering dust like my Wii U and 3DS did for long stretches I'll sell it off and not be out all that much money and just move on from Nintendo for good.

On this front, I really don't see them splitting development. They'll throw the 3DS some bones this year as that's a big installed base to sell games too while the Switch is building its base, and a way to hedge their bets in case the Switch straight bombs (which is unlikely IMO). Any future dedicated portable will just be a smaller switch that isn't compatible with the dock IMO. They know they need all their games in one place to appeal to western gamers since any third party exclusives they get are mostly pretty niche Japanese stuff.
 

Affeinvasion

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Has Nintendo even shown anything suggesting that they are developing traditional handheld style games for the switch yet? The whole unified development trope that supporters keep discussing doesn't seem to be the reality at all. We've seen console style games and WiiWare esque games and 3DS support through the summer doesn't seem horrible by recent Nintendo standards.
 

Skittzo0413

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Has Nintendo even shown anything suggesting that they are developing traditional handheld style games for the switch yet? The whole unified development trope that supporters keep discussing doesn't seem to be the reality at all. We've seen console style games and WiiWare esque games and 3DS support through the summer doesn't seem horrible by recent Nintendo standards.
Nothing official, but: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1316772

Eurogamer's track record is pretty fantastic.
 

muteki

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I'll pick up a Switch later if/when Nintendo can dedicate themselves to a single platform. Don't really feel like I'm missing out on much in the mean time, feels more of the same.
 

DigtialT

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It would be stupid to launch a new dedicated handheld after the switch launches, but it's Nintendo so I don't really feel that deserve the benefit of the doubt in this situation.
 

CrAzY FiNgErS

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I would like to see a Switch "Lite" with a smaller screen and non detachable controllers. Have all the Joy-Con Tech built in except on the left side include a d-pad instead of buttons. Keep the same software, OS, and online infrastructure as original Switch, just make this thing for 1 person use and portable.

Sell the first handheld iteration for $199.99 then it makes good business sense for those who want a cheaper smaller device.


Edit-to save on manufacturing costs don't include a dock or TV out whatsoever.
 

Hero

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The 3DS is going to continue to get games throughout 2017 in the worst case scenario that Switch is another Wii U level of bomb and 3DS is their only decent performer.

If Switch takes off I would expect 3DS support to be really slim next year.

Also I 100% expect a portable/handheld-only model of Switch in about 18 months.