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Aonuma: Zelda Wii U will challenge series conventions.

W

WrathOfOtaibah

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
Ocarina has been passed at least twice now (I haven't played SS so I can't judge that). The game hasn't aged very well at all.
Click to expand...

Uh why not? I have an annual Zelda playthrough and I still think OOT is better paced, better designed, has perfect difficulty and is one of the most entertaining games to play through ever. With that said that's only my opinion, and I did type "finally surpass" so you'd understand that the quotation marks mean I'm not saying it wasn't surpassed but that for a lot of people it still is tops in the franchise.
 
R

royalan

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
Ocarina has been passed at least twice now (I haven't played SS so I can't judge that). The game hasn't aged very well at all.
Click to expand...

But I see what he's saying, and I agree.

Nintendo changes and adds little things here and there, and the gimmick is always different. But the core structure of all the post Ocarina console games are still very Ocarina.

Personally, I agree that it's time that they shake Zelda to the very foundation. I want a game so fundamentally different from Ocarina of Time that the idea of even comparing the two would be ridiculous.
 
T

The Boat

Member
royalan said:
But I see what he's saying, and I agree.

Nintendo changes and adds little things here and there, and the gimmick is always different. But the core structure of all the post Ocarina console games are still very Ocarina.

Personally, I agree that it's time that they shake Zelda to the very foundation. I want a game so fundamentally different from Ocarina of time that the idea of even comparing the two would be ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I hear many people say this but it would so incredibly hard to accomplish without it stopping being Zelda. If people feel this way, well OK that's your opinion but in 13 years 5 3D Zelda games were released, that means 5 games with this foundation, is it that much? Can you really be that tired when these games are so sporadically released? Not to mention that rarely any company copies the style, so it's a pretty unique "genre". I mean, I look at every other big non-Nintendo franchise and I see more games released in less times with even less changes between them. Does anyone complain? Rarely.

The foundation laid down by OoT is so damn fantastic I don't see what's the rush to change it that much, especially when no one even knows what they want it to be asides from some bullet point wishlists or fan faction. Honestly one of the things I love about Nintendo and Zelda certainly fits here is that their sequels usually feel different from each other (with the exception of Galaxy 2 I guess) and Skyward Sword is very different from the usual Zelda in many aspects.

Do I want to be surprised? Sure, if it's a good surprise, but change for the sake of change isn't really my thing, especially when you're talking about one of the most if not the most consistently high-quality franchise in video games.
 
R

royalan

Member
The Boat said:
I hear many people say this but it would so incredibly hard to accomplish without it stopping being Zelda. If people feel this way, well OK that's your opinion but in 13 years 5 3D Zelda games were released, that means 5 games with this foundation, is it that much? Can you really be that tired when these games are so sporadically released? Not to mention that rarely any company copies the style, so it's a pretty unique "genre". I mean, I look at every other big non-Nintendo franchise and I see more games released in less times with even less changes between them. Does anyone complain? Rarely.

The foundation laid down by OoT is so damn fantastic I don't see what's the rush to change it that much, especially when no one even knows what they want it to be asides from some bullet point wishlists or fan faction. Honestly one of the things I love about Nintendo and Zelda certainly fits here is that their sequels usually feel different from each other (with the exception of Galaxy 2 I guess) and Skyward Sword is very different from the usual Zelda in many aspects.

Do I want to be surprised? Sure, if it's a good surprise, but change for the sake of change isn't really my thing, especially when you're talking about one of the most if not the most consistently high-quality franchise in video games.
Click to expand...

I don't think that Nintendo needs to stick to the same structure as Ocarina to be Zelda. There were Zelda games before, after all.

Personally, I think the Ocarina formula is on the cusp of getting stale. For a lot of people it's stale already. I think Skyward Sword is the perfect swan song for the current Zelda formula.

Nintendo doesn't need to give me what I want. Personally, I'd rather they didn't. I'd love for the next Zelda to be something that I just don't see coming.
 
A

ASIS

Member
royalan said:
But I see what he's saying, and I agree.

Nintendo changes and adds little things here and there, and the gimmick is always different. But the core structure of all the post Ocarina console games are still very Ocarina.

Personally, I agree that it's time that they shake Zelda to the very foundation. I want a game so fundamentally different from Ocarina of Time that the idea of even comparing the two would be ridiculous.
Click to expand...

SS is very different from OoT Though, same with MM.
 
K

krYlon

Member
Why are people calling it the Ocarina formula?

It's the Lttp formula surely?

Just because it was 2D doesn't mean it didn't invent the current structure.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
Ocarina has been passed at least twice now (I haven't played SS so I can't judge that). The game hasn't aged very well at all.
Click to expand...

It's aged just fine. Impressions of OOT 3D were very positive, 13 years later.

But I see what he's saying, and I agree.

Nintendo changes and adds little things here and there, and the gimmick is always different. But the core structure of all the post Ocarina console games are still very Ocarina.

Personally, I agree that it's time that they shake Zelda to the very foundation. I want a game so fundamentally different from Ocarina of Time that the idea of even comparing the two would be ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Majora's Mask.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
royalan said:
But I see what he's saying, and I agree.

Nintendo changes and adds little things here and there, and the gimmick is always different. But the core structure of all the post Ocarina console games are still very Ocarina.

Personally, I agree that it's time that they shake Zelda to the very foundation. I want a game so fundamentally different from Ocarina of Time that the idea of even comparing the two would be ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Oh no, I completely agree, I just think that some of the games that have followed Ocarina have done the formula better. It definitely needs shaking up though.


WrathOfOtaibah said:
Uh why not? I have an annual Zelda playthrough and I still think OOT is better paced, better designed, has perfect difficulty and is one of the most entertaining games to play through ever. With that said that's only my opinion, and I did type "finally surpass" so you'd understand that the quotation marks mean I'm not saying it wasn't surpassed but that for a lot of people it still is tops in the franchise.
Click to expand...
Right, they're just opinions. I just think the game hasn't aged very well visually...Outside of that I have some thoughts on the way the game is constructed but I'd rather stay intentionally vague here as a debate would just waste time.

EDIT: Good call on ALttP KrYlon
 
S

Satchel

Banned
While I've already pre-ordered the next Zelda in my mind, and have already played through it 20 times because I know how awesome it will be, they say this after each Zelda about the next Zelda.

Just give me Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess HD-ified with no HUD and I'm good dude.
 
T

The Lamp

Member
I feel like we'll never see another game in the series that so brilliantly utilizes a central concept like masks in MM ever again.
 
S

StunandStab

Member
Perfect example of story left up to interpretation: the cabana island in The Wind Waker. Did anyone else believe, when they found the Redead in the basement, that the previous cabana owner was a murderer and hid the body down there?
 
T

The_Endgamer

Member
I want to finish a dungeon or 3 without ANY sword. Give me the bow and arrow and hookshot/clawshot at the beginning and go from there. (and no that does not allude to a CQC system, lol)

That'd be my only real want.

A very loose second would be better direction on the non-use of voices. In the beginning of SS the grunts were good, though as the story went on when Link was explaining things without sound coming out... that felt jarring. Either do it right that way or make them talk, don't try to make them seem to do both because it just makes the scene weird.

Other than that, everything in Skyward Sword definitely improved on the previous formula and don't get the allusions to OoT at all. There is no real comparison to it. If anything it uses Wind Waker as it's gameplay base.

Looking forward to it though! Keep the visual style from the tech demo or make it a tiny bit more gothic! *drool*
 
D

Datschge

Member
After Takashi Tezuka's great influence on 3D Land I want him to do the same with 3D Zelda, focusing on pure fun. Link's Awakening is still my favorite, most polished Zelda to this day. Bring the SS engine to HD, make it use the style of official MM arts with its dark shadows (contrasting with the impressionist watercolor look) and remove all the annoyances like slow unskipable text and obnoxious "helping" characters, make NPCs talk less and more optional (and hide the story there as a reward instead pushing it into the face), make the maps only show already visited areas instead all at once etc. etc.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
StevieP said:
As per the previous page,
Click to expand...

Given how it is implemented, your distinction is meaningless. This is like claiming the sword fighting game in Sports Champions is more complex than Virtua Fighter. It could be I suppose in theory, but the motion control sword fighting amounts to a QTE as it's implemented in Sports Champions and Zelda.

The CPU blocks high mid or low plus maybe left or right. You hit where they're not guarding. This is not a complex dynamic. (It's not supposed to be.)
 
M

Mista Koo

Member
Since the other do-not-want Link was posted I'd like to add this one:

blTu5.jpg


Other than the triforce and Navi it's less offensive.
 
D

DjangoReinhardt

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Jax said:
I don't think they know how to fix/refresh LOZ. the next game is going to be make or break.
Click to expand...

All Nintendo wants to do is tinker around the margins. They've settled into a pattern of talking a nice game before release to placate a small minority, then releasing yet another safe, low-ambition iteration. If they wanted to make Zelda interesting again, they'd hand the franchise to EAD Tokyo.
 
M

Myriadis

Member
The_Endgamer said:
I want to finish a dungeon or 3 without ANY sword. Give me the bow and arrow and hookshot/clawshot at the beginning and go from there. (and no that does not allude to a CQC system, lol)

That'd be my only real want.
Click to expand...

With a little glitch I managed to do the whole kid section in Ocarina of Time (N64 version) without a sword. Crooked Cartridge, lets you bypass Mido.

Changing conventions? Even though Zelda uses the same basic formula since the orginal, (running around an overworld visiting dungeons and using items found there, the sword is the main item and the hero wears green and is an elf), I still had so far fun with, at least, every 3D zelda.
And I know that the most famous Zelda Classic games, games made by the Zelda fanbase, still follow the Zelda formula, although there are quite the possibilities to change it. Instead, you still have the field-dungeon stuff, use the items you collected in dungeons, get a master sword, rewards are rupees and heart pieces and every dungeon has a map, compass and keys. Why changing the formula drastically if the majority likes it as it is?
 
T

The_Endgamer

Member
Myriadis said:
With a little glitch I managed to do the whole kid section in Ocarina of Time (N64 version) without a sword. Crooked Cartridge, lets you bypass Mido.

Changing conventions? Even though Zelda uses the same basic formula since the orginal, (running around an overworld visiting dungeons and using items found there, the sword is the main item and the hero wears green and is an elf), I still had so far fun with, at least, every 3D zelda.
And I know that the most famous Zelda Classic games, games made by the Zelda fanbase, still follow the Zelda formula, although there are quite the possibilities to change it. Instead, you still have the field-dungeon stuff, use the items you collected in dungeons, get a master sword, rewards are rupees and heart pieces and every dungeon has a map, compass and keys. Why changing the formula drastically if the majority likes it as it is?
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, i don't dislike the conventions of Zelda one bit (SS is my new favourite game ever), i just think that there could be more variation between the dungeons other than; go to new dungeon, find new item, use item to reach new place, kill dungeon boss.

It's a perfect formula but changing it so that Link might lose other weapons and such through his journey would make much more satisfying puzzles in my mind.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
Dear Aonuma,

Talk is cheap. Make another Zelda as thoughtful and daring as Majora's Mask and I'll start taking your random musings on the direction of the franchise seriously again.

Sincerely,

GrotesqueBeauty
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Mista Koo said:
Since the other do-not-want Link was posted I'd like to add this one:

blTu5.jpg


Other than the triforce and Navi it's less offensive.
Click to expand...

finally i can feel confident nobody will question my sexuality while playing the legend of zelda

The Pegasus boots are a nice touch though.
 
Tarin02543

Tarin02543

Member
Datschge said:
After Takashi Tezuka's great influence on 3D Land I want him to do the same with 3D Zelda, focusing on pure fun. Link's Awakening is still my favorite, most polished Zelda to this day. Bring the SS engine to HD, make it use the style of official MM arts with its dark shadows (contrasting with the impressionist watercolor look) and remove all the annoyances like slow unskipable text and obnoxious "helping" characters, make NPCs talk less and more optional (and hide the story there as a reward instead pushing it into the face), make the maps only show already visited areas instead all at once etc. etc.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I want for Zelda on 3DS, what they've done for Mario on 3ds they need to do for Link as well.

Link's awakening 3D would make me hard.
 
P

peakish

Member
What was Aunomas role in Skyward Sword, by the way? I heard they brought in the team behind Spirit Tracks (or was it Minish Cap?), but was Aunoma still the head?
 
A

AniHawk

Member
peakish said:
What was Aunomas role in Skyward Sword, by the way? I heard they brought in the team behind Spirit Tracks (or was it Minish Cap?), but was Aunoma still the head?
Click to expand...

fujibayashi (director of the oracle games, four swords, and the minish cap, and sub-director of phantom hourglass), directed skyward sword. aonuma served as a producer.

kinda like with twilight princess, aonuma was the director and miyamoto was the (a) producer.
 
U

Uchip

Banned
Skyward Sword to me represents the very best and worst of the Zelda series
it does feel like Nintendo are a bit behind the times in some aspects
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
I would rather they expand on the concepts found in Skyward Sword more than anything else now, to just make it encapsulate a slightly more populated world than just the isolated Skyloft. So like 1-2 more main hubs would be cool.

Honestly though, the new dungeons are amazing, and if they go in that direction again, I will be more than happy.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
After playing SS for about an hour or two, I can see that it is very different from the past few titles. BUT, they need to get out of the player's way. I don't mean that in terms of Fi talking, I mean that in terms of the number up interrupting cutscenes. If they can cut this stuff out then I will trust them with whatever they want to do with the series, as long as its different.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
One thing about the dungeons I noticed in the sixth. They don't feel intimidating for some reason. Maybe it is the colour palette, music and the fact that you often have someone talking to you in them. The bosses are more "fun" than creepy.

I think I prefer the dungeons in TP to this.
 
P

peakish

Member
AniHawk said:
fujibayashi (director of the oracle games, four swords, and the minish cap, and sub-director of phantom hourglass), directed skyward sword. aonuma served as a producer.

kinda like with twilight princess, aonuma was the director and miyamoto was the (a) producer.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm a bit confused about the roles of producers and directors in these games, does this mean that Fujibayashi had the most responsibilities and that Aunoma mostly oversaw the production as an administrator? (For me this goes way back to OOT which I at the time heard was Miyamotos work though they only listed him as a producer in the credits).

I'm mostly wondering since if Fujibayashi is the main guy behind this that makes it the second time that the series greatly improves after switching team leads. Otherwise it means that Aunoma finally hit a home run again which would also be cool :)
 
B

batbeg

Member
zoukka said:
One thing about the dungeons I noticed in the sixth. They don't feel intimidating for some reason. Maybe it is the colour palette, music and the fact that you often have someone talking to you in them. The bosses are more "fun" than creepy.

I think I prefer the dungeons in TP to this.
Click to expand...

They feel more whimsical to me - I like it. I'm only up to three so far, though, but I have just found them enchanting.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
zoukka said:
One thing about the dungeons I noticed in the sixth. They don't feel intimidating for some reason. Maybe it is the colour palette, music and the fact that you often have someone talking to you in them. The bosses are more "fun" than creepy.

I think I prefer the dungeons in TP to this.
Click to expand...
Well they all seem to have a history of being places people would go to so I guess it makes sense that they shouldn't feel intimidating much like a Church isn't a scary place to go.

Only area I really felt disturbed by was
the pre dungeon 5 areas since they were full of dead robots that you couldn't even talk to.
 
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