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[Buckethead]

If they release a Hulu and Vimeo app for iPad I couldn't give a hootenanny about flash.
I understand that certain people do but that doesn't justify acting like a whiny baby or lashing out by having a pissy fit like a child.

While I love specific apps in many ways, I also don't want 300 apps on my screen (exaggeration, I know). So making a push for HTML5 or kicking some money towards YouTube to make a real iPad friendly version of YouTube.com (and also Hulu.com) would make me really happy.

Also I really hope that OS 4.0 adds folders or stacks or something along those lines.

 

[Technosteve]

Ouch. Good thing there's no mass market competing tablet right now... A good commercial ad campaign designed around how many websites don't work with the iPad would cripple its appeal.

Think Verizon's "There's a Map For That" ads but way worse.

i surf on my iphone all the time. why do i need flash? with flash on my netbook the netbook gets destroyed. I can't watch one video with out it just stalling out for a while. You know what doesn't stall out, video with out flash.

 

[mrkgoo]

Well, the games will never work due to interface issues, so all we're really talking about is video.



It's not the best argument, though. Adobe is acting like it's Flash or nothing, and the reality is that Adobe is protecting it's revenue as much as Apple is. Two companies butting heads.

The fact remains that there are 75 million web browsers and counting that do not support Flash sold to customers, and their needs are being taken care of elsewhere.

Realistically, If you're Apple, and your customers are happy and you're making money, why do you budge on this?

True.

I never thought about the interface issues. You're smart! I'm dumb.

As you said it must just be d) all ofthe above. They gain from maintaining control of the platform, stability. And iF consumers turn to the movie or app store, yay bonus.

I think there must be some indirect advantages too. By increasing the mumbernof people who use specific apps (like the you tube app) apple can sell those numbers (ie this many people access YouTube via iPhone).

Something I always found interesting was that everytime you connect to wifi, it hits up apple.com. I think. When I connect via wifi at uni I see a login window pop up and them attempt to hit up apple.com before then redirecting to the university login.

I wonder if they can use all those hits.

 

[p_p_o_d]

Flash not supported because of App Store? Didn't I go over this already?

Majority of flash games require a mouse and keyboard people.

but with flash devs could make flash games designed to be played on the iPad and just skip the app store altoghter.

apple wouldnt want that would they.


I have spent as much time with my ipod touch sitting on the couch browsing the web then I have listening to music on the thing.

I can almost see the appeal to the iPad.


I was just expecting something more like a tablet macbook then a bigger iPod

 

[giga]

There's no reason you can't add an abstraction layer to this to support keyboard commands.

You could map keys to on screen buttons and the mouse to touch or something.

I'm not saying it would be perfect but it would probably work for most things. I don't think it's a limitation worth sacrificing everything for.

Add an abstraction layer where? How would that work for a game that uses up/down/left/up or the other assortment of keys that they designed it for? Touch =! mouse. Dragging your finger across a screen blocks the view of the screen. Either way, how would that work for existing flash game sites that everyone loves to boast about?

The point was that existing Flash games aren't the reason that Apple doesn't support Flash Player.

but with flash devs could make flash games designed to be played on the iPad and just skip the app store altoghter.

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Applications_for_iPhone:Developer_FAQ

 

[Buckethead]

apple wouldnt want that would they.

You put that cynically, but no, of course not.
No one in the right mind does.

Do you like typing in a web address, seeing a small rectangle surrounded by ads, and other extraneous bullshit on Newgrounds or other websites?
And if you're talking about "casuals", they're not going to go to a website and check out games. But they might get Paper Toss for a buck on the App Store.

Playing games off of a website sucks. Especially on a touch device when you want to see the whole screen. Pinch, zoom, tap. It'd be cumbersome.

Does Apple need to open up it's eco-system a bit? Yes.
Do they need to explain themselves for being protective? No.

 

[Mudkips]

So we've got three major arguments:

1. No Flash speeds up the switch to HTML5

2. Flash interferes with the App Store

3. Flash causes more crashes on OSX than any other application. Apple is more concerned with stability.

Can't it be all 3?

A lack of flash does NOT speed up the switch to HTML 5 (as much as I'd like it to).
Nothing will speed up the switch to HTML 5 because HTML 5 does not specify a mandatory supported codec for the VIDEO tag (because of Apple's refusal to implement ogg/theora). Content will get there when it gets there, and the VIDEO tag doesn't provide all the obfuscation, annoying menus/overlays/etc, and social networking bullshit that all the content sites love. And IE has no plans to support HTML 5 at all.

If you're a content provider, going to HTML 5 for the VIDEO tag is a fool's errand. Being forced to offer up multiple formats for different browsers is a terrible idea when you're talking about something as storage-intensive as video. Serving up different user experiences based on their browsers is a marketer's nightmare, too. This is why every fucking site has miles of javascript to try to make sure everything looks the same on different browsers.

Content providers seeking to make sure people with the iPhone, the iPod ouch, and now the iPad can get their shit have already made their choice - whip up an app. And we're seeing the same thing with Android devices.

Flash does interfere with the App store.
Flash is an unstable piece of crap.
Flash is an unsecure piece of crap.
Flash is a slow, bloated piece of crap.

So it's:
1 - Flash is shit and would kill battery, performance, and stability while presenting new security holes every fucking week.
2 - Flash would make many apps on the app store redundant.

In case you haven't noticed, I hate flash. I'm glad devices are shipping without it, and that Silverlight is around to provide at least some competition/choice.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I understand that certain people do but that doesn't justify acting like a whiny baby or lashing out by having a pissy fit like a child.

Who is that? Or are you just making broad generalizations to troll?

 

[kaching]

The Flash competes with the App Store thing blows my mind.

Do people not realize that Apple makes 0 say in pricing, and *gasp* you can make games free?

Thinking that's where Apple wringing their revenues from is crazy.

Zero direct say in pricing doesn't mean they aren't manipulating the channel to encourage more revenue by corralling as many apps into their closed system as possible. Take for example Bejeweled Blitz and Canabalt - two games that are free as flash web apps, but which are sold for a cost on the App Store. And Bejeweled has been in the top 5 of the Top Paid and Top Grossing for quite awhile now.

Flash not supported because of App Store? Didn't I go over this already?

Majority of flash games require a mouse and keyboard people.

A growing number of standard PCs have touchscreens. Are you suggesting flash apps won't adapt?

 

[giga]

A growing number of standard PCs have touchscreens. Are you suggesting flash apps won't adapt?

Did I say that? Or was I making a point that current flash game "competition" isn't Apple's reason for not allowing Flash these past 3 years.

 

[D4Danger]

Add an abstraction layer where? How would that work for a game that uses up/down/left/up or the other assortment of keys that they designed it for? Touch =! mouse. Dragging your finger across a screen blocks the view of the screen. Either way, how would that work for existing flash game sites that everyone loves to boast about?

I'm not saying it would. In fact I said it wouldn't be perfect.

What I meant by abstraction was, when you find a Flash app maybe the OS would notice it and you could have the option to say "I want to make an UP button" so you choose key on the on screen keyboard and a little on screen button appears that you can use. So you can basically make your own on screen keys that would map to whatever keyboard key it would've been.

There's plenty of smarter people than me that could think of a better solution I'm sure. I'm just saying that using this as a reason to not have Flash at all doesn't make sense. I suspect a lot of stuff wouldn't work because it was never designed for this type of device but it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

[SnakeXs]

Zero direct say in pricing doesn't mean they aren't manipulating the channel to encourage more revenue by corralling as many apps into their closed system as possible. Take for example Bejeweled Blitz and Canabalt - two games that are free as flash web apps, but which are sold for a cost on the App Store. And Bejeweled has been in the top 5 of the Top Paid and Top Grossing for quite awhile now.

A growing number of standard PCs have touchscreens. Are you suggesting flash apps won't adapt?

Why wouldn't they? Why should developers with a great idea and great execution be able to support themselves, or even generate some income? Flash has no real paid market, period. Now if you want to argue that the App Store is hurting free Flash game development that's another issue, but the App Store merely offers a viable ecosystem for these developers to profit off of their efforts. If Flixel wanted Canabalt to be free, it would be free.

Hell look at their own note, in the game itself.

I just don't see what you're getting at.

 

[Schlep]

So making a push for HTML5 or kicking some money towards YouTube to make a real iPad friendly version of YouTube.com (and also Hulu.com) would make me really happy..

The iPad YouTube app looks really great. I'm confused though as to whether or not it will let you view/create comments. Anyone seen a video or pics of that?

 

[giga]

I'm not saying it would. In fact I said it wouldn't be perfect.

What I meant by abstraction was, when you find a Flash app maybe the OS would notice it and you could have the option to say "I want to make an UP button" so you choose key on the on screen keyboard and a little on screen button appears that you can use. So you can basically make your own on screen keys that would map to whatever keyboard key it would've been.

There's plenty of smarter people than me that could think of a better solution I'm sure. I'm just saying that using this as a reason to not have Flash at all doesn't make sense.

See, I don't believe that would be entirely in Apple's ballpark since they don't even control Flash Player. Further, I'm pretty sure the virtual keyboard only appears when it's focused in a text field.

I see what you're saying, but it wasn't the point that I was making. My point was in regards to miniclip/addictinggames/etc vs App Store.

 

[SnakeXs]

The iPad YouTube app looks really great. I'm confused though as to whether or not it will let you view/create comments. Anyone seen a video or pics of that?

You can do that from the iPhone app so I see no reason to expect it to not be included here as well.

 

[Blackhead]

My needs are simple but I have to reconsider if the iPad is fit for note taking :/ looking at the photos again it appears a little too big.

Why hasn't somebody made a small device that can serve as a digital notebook yet? Somewhere in between a moleskin and a Kindle with delicious software plus bluetooth for sharing with fellow devices and syncing with a desktop or laptop. What would you guys pay for it? $50? $100? $200? There are Wacom Bamboo devices for $99...

 

[DarkJC]

You've alI pretty much nailed it, but I the think strain on AT&T's network has got to be numero uno. They can barely keep up without Flash... Just think of what implementing it on all these AT&T/Apple devices would do.

I think people place way too much importance on AT&T's network. There are lots and lots of iPhones out there without AT&T, and I seriously doubt that we'll suddenly see Flash content on the iPhone when Apple finally moves to a multi carrier model in the US.

 

[Schlep]

You can do that from the iPhone app so I see no reason to expect it to not be included here as well.

Yeah, I would assume so as well, but since it's a new app entirely, I wasn't sure if it had that functionality built in. The original YouTube app for iPhone didn't add that until OS 3, I think.

 

[Shogmaster]

My needs are simple but I have to reconsider if the iPad is fit for note taking :/ looking at the photos again it appears a little too big.

Why hasn't somebody made a small device that can serve as a digital notebook yet? Somewhere in between a moleskin and a Kindle with delicious software plus bluetooth for sharing with fellow devices and syncing with a desktop or laptop. What would you guys pay for it? $50? $100? $200? There are Wacom Bamboo devices for $99...

Would you be happy if you could just scribble notes on a Kindle? I think there is couple of those with Wacom digitizer. $300ish I think.

Here it is:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/22/bebook-neo-e-reader-launches-with-wifi-and-wacom-capabilities/

http://armdevices.net/2010/01/16/onyx-boox-at-ces-2010/

 

[layzie1989]

Do they have ipod connector to ipod connector cables? wonder if i'd be able to tether my iphone to this thing...

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Do they have ipod connector to ipod connector cables? wonder if i'd be able to tether my iphone to this thing...

What are you trying to accomplish by this? I'm not sure that they have this kind of cable. I've never seen one at least. And if you're tethering to get on the Internet, you'd use BlueTooth.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I always saw the two main reasons against Flash as it being a non-standard plugin and that it's crashy. Safari in Snow Leopard was completely redone to have plugins work in a separate process because they cannot control Flash at all and it's a buggy mess. Apple is at war with Adobe over this for ideological and philosophical reasons.

SnakeXs is right that the conspiracy about money is either wrong or only half-true. When apps can be given away for free, the argument holds no weight. A free Flash game would actually help them since they don't have to distribute it.

 

[Dez]

What are you trying to accomplish by this? I'm not sure that they have this kind of cable. I've never seen one at least. And if you're tethering to get on the Internet, you'd use BlueTooth.

I'd prefer USB tethering, as you'd be able to keep the phone charged while doing so. I've never understood the point of bluetooth tethering when 3g data is such a battery drainer. But yes, I expect the only option for tethering on the iPad will be bluetooth. Which would mean you'd have to to connect your phone and iPad to separate power connectors :/

 

[kaching]

Did I say that? Or was I making a point that current flash game "competition" isn't Apple's reason for not allowing Flash these past 3 years.

I don't know, that's why I asked you a question. Relax. As far as your answer goes, flash app dev is pretty rapid fire, they could adapt to rising demand from a touchscreen clientele within days or weeks, at most. No different than many websites putting out versions of their sites that are heavily redesigned to work well on the iPhone.

Why wouldn't they? Why should developers with a great idea and great execution be able to support themselves, or even generate some income? Flash has no real paid market, period. Now if you want to argue that the App Store is hurting free Flash game development that's another issue...

No, what I want to argue is your original point that Apple wasn't intentionally closing off Flash development in part to pad the revenue for the App Store and you're off on a completely separate tangent now.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

the VIDEO tag doesn't provide all the obfuscation, annoying menus/overlays/etc, and social networking bullshit that all the content sites love.

Yes it does. All of that is easily added through HTML, CSS, and JS. Check out Vimeo and YouTube. They have exact recreations of their Flash players.

And IE has no plans to support HTML 5 at all.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/11/18/an-early-look-at-ie9-for-developers.aspx

They don't single out the video element, but Silverlight streaming off of an IIS server right now can detect a user's configuration and serve an h.264 video if necessary: http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/iis-smooth-streaming-with-the-apple-iphone/. Microsoft is getting Silverlight to play nice with the iPhone. What's Adobe's excuse?

 

[D4Danger]

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/11/18/an-early-look-at-ie9-for-developers.aspx

They don't single out the video element, but Silverlight streaming off of an IIS server right now can detect a user's configuration and serve an h.264 video if necessary: http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/iis-smooth-streaming-with-the-apple-iphone/. Microsoft is getting Silverlight to play nice with the iPhone. What's Adobe's excuse?

Microsoft also support a lot other HTML5 features.

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Jafa...er-Features-in-Microsoft-Internet-Explorer-8/
http://blogs.msdn.com/giorgio/archive/2009/11/29/ie8-and-html-5.aspx

I know the headline grabbing one is the new <video> support which IE doesn't have but there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Some new interesting info from Engadge. Seems that OS 3.2 has hooks for making and receiving video calls, as well as downloading files from the web, and SMS.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/29/confirmed-iphone-os-3-2-has-support-for-video-calling-file-dow/

I wonder if it is also possible that Apple has a few tricks still up it's sleeve. Like for instance a camera being in the final production model. There are a number of indications in the SDK that the iPad is meant to have a camera.

I'd prefer USB tethering, as you'd be able to keep the phone charged while doing so. I've never understood the point of bluetooth tethering when 3g data is such a battery drainer. But yes, I expect the only option for tethering on the iPad will be bluetooth. Which would mean you'd have to to connect your phone and iPad to separate power connectors :/

USB tethering without plugging either of the two devices in? You don't think that will still burn battery life?

 

[Blackhead]

Would you be happy if you could just scribble notes on a Kindle? I think there is couple of those with Wacom digitizer. $300ish I think.

Here it is:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/22/bebook-neo-e-reader-launches-with-wifi-and-wacom-capabilities/

http://armdevices.net/2010/01/16/onyx-boox-at-ces-2010/

Thanks. It doesn't appear to have the notebook functionality I was looking for the scribbling and PDF support looks pretty good. I'd definitely get that over a Kindle.

I guess I'll be waiting on reviews of the iPad. The iBooks demoed obviously wasnt finished. It's promising (the landscape view was good) but the search button wasn't even working. And we still haven't go word on PDF support, seen how the app treats footnotes nor previewed any annotation features. I might just have to grab my stylus and test out a unit before I commit to a purchase...

Spoiler

Yeah the reality distortion field has completely dissipiated

 

[giga]

I don't know, that's why I asked you a question. Relax. As far as your answer goes, flash app dev is pretty rapid fire, they could adapt to rising demand from a touchscreen clientele within days or weeks, at most. No different than many websites putting out versions of their sites that are heavily redesigned to work well on the iPhone.

Hey man, your question seemed hostile, but I apologize if my response seemed harsh.

Haven't touchscreen phones been out for quite a while now though? How exactly is Flash and the problems I brought up handled on those devices?

 

[mrkgoo]

Some new interesting info from Engadge. Seems that OS 3.2 has hooks for making and receiving video calls, as well as downloading files from the web, and SMS.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/29/confirmed-iphone-os-3-2-has-support-for-video-calling-file-dow/

I wonder if it is also possible that Apple has a few tricks still up it's sleeve. Like for instance a camera being in the final production model. There are a number of indications in the SDK that the iPad is meant to have a camera.



USB tethering without plugging either of the two devices in? You don't think that will still burn battery life?

As much as I'd love a camera to be real, I don't thin kit will be in this iteration. Since when has there ever been a hardware feature that has been put into a revision before launch? Of course, few products were ever preannounced.

Software additions, possibly. SMS unlikely, as I thought messages were always carried on a separate thing from the data spec, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, messages are typically separate from data plans. It would confuse the simple options this device has.

Hooks for downloading is interesting. That would go a long way to making this more of a 'computer', if you were able to download files. Of course, you can already save images.

Today, a co-worker came in and was talking about the iPad and how his wife LOVES it (non-computer person). He was considering getting it for a main home device for her. But he was unaware that it wasn't a full computer. I told him there was no storage space for files, no visible file hierarchy, No Office and so on. Those weren't deal breakers, but what was to him (her) was that it had no flash, although I did explain that youttube had an app. It was all about hulu and other flash video, I think. In the end, he knew about and was excited about the concept, but was disappointed it wasn't a full computer.

/anecdotal.

 

[Raistlin]

Like I said, steve does have a point - and that point was numbers are numbers, but this is about practicality. It was interesting to see him in 'live' action (not keynote). I can see how he's a pretty assertive and pushy guy. The kind of guy who would likely speak over you just to be heard. I'd wet my pants if I were to encounter him.

Yeah, I know someone that used to work for Apple ... wet your pants is pretty much it :lol

So what do people want as multitasking? For me I want an easier way of clicking a link in an email and gog to Safari, and getting back to that e mail. Others want an IM client running in the bkground which is fair. But why are people crying they can't run Pandora or another music player? Apple want you to use their shit, and boy that's the way they do it. I'd be interested if Chrome OS allow for other competitors to run alternate versions of their basic programs? As I think this is Apples way of protecting their 1st party apps. I'm not defending it; I'm accepting it

That would almost make sense if they were similar programs. Are you really comparing playback of music from the SSD versus a streaming music service? If Apple offered some sort of subscription service, then it would apply. I personally wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it.

People who are saying this is just an iTouch/iPhone maybe haven't seen the slick UI, the difference to their previous products, the difference with Mail, Safari, etc. It's looking really amazing, and it's not even out yet! When i does come out it will probably be running the 3.4 OS, but I believe the OS will be in development with the iPhone, but will always be different. I also make this promise; 4.0 OS will emerge as a multitasking OS; fact

And what huge difference is there in Safari? It still appears to have to reload each tab when you select it, and still doesn't run plugins.

I think the device has a ton of potential, but the current version is way too gimped for me.

Dude, you can do anything small. I maybe should have said Garageband not Logic

Aren't you contradicting yourself?

I've never seen so much backlash over a device before. People are really going out of their way to let you know they don't like what was shown.

I've never seen so much hyperbole ...

Asking users to manually manage resources by closing unneeded applications is completely undesirable and leads to a bad user experience.

Their current implementation makes it so they don't need to worry about users opening a ton of apps and then complaining when their device runs out of batteries in a heartbeat as well as running like a piece of shit.

I don't think Apple will ever have multi-tasking as something that is on by default for this very reason. It just makes for a poor user-experience. We take it for granted because we're used to doing these activities, but trust me, their current implementation is actually brilliant. Adding multi-tasking is something they had to reject from the get-go in order for it to work.

Simply putting a limit on the number of apps would easily avoid the issues

 

[mrkgoo]

Thanks. It doesn't appear to have the notebook functionality I was looking for the scribbling and PDF support looks pretty good. I'd definitely get that over a Kindle.

I guess I'll be waiting on reviews of the iPad. The iBooks demoed obviously wasnt finished. It's promising (the landscape view was good) but the search button wasn't even working. And we still haven't go word on PDF support, seen how the app treats footnotes nor previewed any annotation features. I might just have to grab my stylus and test out a unit before I commit to a purchase...

Spoiler

Yeah the reality distortion field has completely dissipiated

I can't believe the search function not working in iBooks is even an issue. Do you think it won't be working by release? It's sure to be working, or at least removed.

Anyway, the device is sure to have basic PDF viewing. iWork is sure to open it too. Do you think we could print from iWork? That would be a killer feature.

I'm still madly excited for the device.

 

[Dez]

Yeah, I know someone that used to work for Apple ... wet your pants is pretty much it :lol




That would almost make sense if they were similar programs. Are you really comparing playback of music from the SSD versus a streaming music service? If Apple offered some sort of subscription service, then it would apply. I personally wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it.



And what huge difference is there in Safari? It still appears to have to reload each tab when you select it, and still doesn't run plugins.

I think the device has a ton of potential, but the current version is way too gimped for me.




Aren't you contradicting yourself?




I've never seen so much hyperbole ...






Simply putting a limit on the number of apps would easily avoid the issues

Safari for iPhone doesn't reload tabs when you select them. It keeps them in memory, at least it does on my 3gs. I've never understood why ppl think safari mobile doesn't do tabs properly. It works just fine.

It only reloads tabs if you've restarted your phone.

 

[mrkgoo]

Yeah, I know someone that used to work for Apple ... wet your pants is pretty much it :loll

Man, I always laugh when the Snow Leopard autocorrect adds an extra 'L' on the end of the loll smiley. :loll

That would almost make sense if they were similar programs. Are you really comparing playback of music from the SSD versus a streaming music service? If Apple offered some sort of subscription service, then it would apply. I personally wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it.

Yeah, maybe. I'm not a pandora user so I can't comment really. I don't know how critical it really is. I always figured that if you were desperate to listen to something while you browsed, that you could settle. I guess in those multitasking times, people actually want pandora as their primary app (music discovery perhaps) and while they're doing that to be able to go read something.

And what huge difference is there in Safari? It still appears to have to reload each tab when you select it, and still doesn't run plugins.

Safari isn't it -it's all the other apps. iTunes looks more like a desktop version. The notes and email apps actually look pretty damn good. Photos looks amazing! I think his point was that these apps have really been polished up for the platform to make them look they always belonged and aren't just some iPhone hangover.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

As much as I'd love a camera to be real, I don't thin kit will be in this iteration. Since when has there ever been a hardware feature that has been put into a revision before launch? Of course, few products were ever preannounced.

Software additions, possibly. SMS unlikely, as I thought messages were always carried on a separate thing from the data spec, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, messages are typically separate from data plans. It would confuse the simple options this device has.

Hooks for downloading is interesting. That would go a long way to making this more of a 'computer', if you were able to download files. Of course, you can already save images.

I know the camera is a stretch, but Engaget, and other sites, have noted that there is a blank spot on the unit that looks like where a camera would go. It is possible that over the next two months, before it goes into production, they might drop one in. It's not the same, I know, but Apple did change out the face of the iPhone between when it was announced and when it launched, going with the glass face over the previous plastic one.

That aside however, these hooks show promise. Like I said, I think there is more here than meets the eye, and Apple hasn't revealed all of their cards yet.

 

[mrkgoo]

Safari for iPhone doesn't reload tabs when you select them. It keeps them in memory, at least it does on my 3gs. I've never understood why ppl think safari mobile doesn't do tabs properly. It works just fine.

It only reloads tabs if you've restarted your phone.

On my phone (3G), it pretty much only saves a picture of the page you were on. Whenever I click on a tab that isn't the one I was directly on, it will reload it.

I guess that's a RAM thing. Maybe the iPad has enough ram to cache more.

 

[mrkgoo]

I know the camera is a stretch, but Engaget, and other sites, have noted that there is a blank spot on the unit that looks like where a camera would go. It is possible that over the next two months, before it goes into production, they might drop one in. It's not the same, I know, but Apple did change out the face of the iPhone between when it was announced and when it launched, going with the glass face over the previous plastic one.

That aside however, these hooks show promise. Like I said, I think there is more here than meets the eye, and Apple hasn't revealed all of their cards yet.

Really? I thought the iPhone was ALWAYS glass? In the announcement he mentions glass. I'm positive. There's a difference between a placeholder over something that was announced and adding something new entirely...

Blank spot on the unit? Isn't the entire bezel blank? How could you say there was a blank spot?

Man, I so WANT to believe you, though....

 

[Dez]

On my phone (3G), it pretty much only saves a picture of the page you were on. Whenever I click on a tab that isn't the one I was directly on, it will reload it.

I guess that's a RAM thing. Maybe the iPad has enough ram to cache more.

Yeah it must be a ram thing - the 3gs has double the ram of the 3g. I find that my tabs stay in memory even when I close safari - it runs in the background.

 

[mrkgoo]

Yeah it must be a ram thing - the 3gs has double the ram of the 3g. I find that my tabs stay in memory even when I close safari - it runs in the background.

I pretty much only ever get the last page I was on.

If you close all tabs and press home, the safari app is actually closed, even back ground

 

[blu]

On my phone (3G), it pretty much only saves a picture of the page you were on. Whenever I click on a tab that isn't the one I was directly on, it will reload it.

I guess that's a RAM thing. Maybe the iPad has enough ram to cache more.

mobile safari caches the complete page, if possible. you just stumbled across some memory hogging pages. my wife often reads cached web pages on her ipod touch when the device has already been disconnected from the home lan - the page renders fine, you can manipulate it ok, until you try to open something new.

ed: oops, misread you post - the non-focused tabs are not cached indeed.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Really? I thought the iPhone was ALWAYS glass? In the announcement he mentions glass. I'm positive. There's a difference between a placeholder over something that was announced and adding something new entirely...

Blank spot on the unit? Isn't the entire bezel blank? How could you say there was a blank spot?

Man, I so WANT to believe you, though....

Yep. It was plastic first and they upgraded to glass right before launch.

http://iphonescratches.com/2007/06/...tic-iphone-screen-with-optical-quality-glass/

And in the article I linked to, Engadget says:

"The iPad may not have a camera in its current incarnation, but Apple's at least laying the foundation for one: we just confirmed with extremely trusted sources that iPhone OS 3.2 contains rudimentary support for video calling, which could explain that mysterious space at the top of the device in our leaked pics. "

Yes, I know that doesn't mean that a camera is coming in this model, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. Otherwise, why have all the video calling options in the OS at this point?

 

[mrkgoo]

mobile safari caches the complete page, if possible. you just stumbled across some memory hogging pages. my wife often reads cached web pages on her ipod touch when the device has already been disconnected from the home lan - the page renders fine, you can manipulate it ok, until you try to open something new, that is.

Oh I know, that's what I was trying to say- that whatever I'm doing it sucks up my ram and I end up losing my cache such that only my last page was cached. Maybe one other if I'm lucky.

 

[lachesis]

Tomorrow is my wife's birthday... so I thought I'd surprise her for a iPad pre-order, which she's been singing about it for a couple of days now. She was totally unintrested about iPad when I was keep telling her that Apple might come out with a tablet, and she might be intertested in it. Then, suddenly, she's all into it now... At work, I made a replica of iPad with half inch foam board along with front back print, with our daughter's pic in it, saying Happy Birthday Mommy etc. I was just going to slip in the receipt and this replica in an unassuming envelope, and give to her for her b-day present.

So, with this pitiful replica, I walked into apple store near my work - the nyc one that was most recently built, which I personally think a very very ugly building. It just doesn't go with surroundings, and they tore down a perfectly good building (victoria's secret building, no less) which was only a few years old to build this giant waste of space. (asthetically, it's pleasing in its own way with super duper high ceiling, but I just can't imagine how much of money that's being wasted with that much space). Anyhow, I found a clerk and asked about pre-ordering... and all he could say is that they are not taking pre-orders of yet, and perhaps pre-order will begin in several weeks from now. He was mildly impressed with my replica - which is at actual size - and wanted to hold it in his hand. LOL...

Upon the question of multitasking, that my wife's need of having IM and browser at the same time... he said it doesn't support multitasking- but since its "flash based", so switching between each software will be really quick.

So with empty handed, except my replica... I just walked away. Gave it to my wife when I came home, and she wasn't really that impressed... vaguely saying "I like this". Sigh. I had to make 2 of them, because 1st one came with shoddy edges. (It's rather hard to cut a straight line all the way through on 1/2 inch foam board)

Anyhow.. after building the thing, it's quite small. About inch smaller than regular letter sized (8.5" x 11") Paper - and The bezels are probably around 3/4 inches all around. Certainly thnner than what it appears to be on photos - but not for once, I felt like the screen is really big. Adequet for portable device, I guess. Was going to get the 499 one with wifi only, and perhaps get 3g or maybe 4g one in the future when it gets some major overhaul of the product (if it becomes indeed popular like my own company is already on its way to produce something for it...)... or get an iPhone if it becomes available on Verizon.

 

[mrkgoo]

Yep. It was plastic first and they upgraded to glass right before launch.

http://iphonescratches.com/2007/06/...tic-iphone-screen-with-optical-quality-glass/

And in the article I linked to, Engadget says:

"The iPad may not have a camera in its current incarnation, but Apple's at least laying the foundation for one: we just confirmed with extremely trusted sources that iPhone OS 3.2 contains rudimentary support for video calling, which could explain that mysterious space at the top of the device in our leaked pics. "

Yes, I know that doesn't mean that a camera is coming in this model, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. Otherwise, why have all the video calling options in the OS at this point?

Oooooh, that's right. The bolted frame with the gap. I thought you meant a gap in the bezel itself :lol

hmm hooks for video. Hmmm. Hope they haven't taken it out just to add to a new one. . I still don't think they'll do much to it before launCh, besides tighten up software.

I'm going to have to watch the iPhone keynote to double check re: the glass thing.

 

[Raistlin]

Um. Did you forget how Apple just destroyed the walkman line. I do agree that Sony makes great CE devices, but they're a hardware company and totally missed the whole software/hardware convergence aspect that is now extremely important in most CE devices.

...

I agree with many of your points, but that really has nothing to do with what Tobor said. If you sit back and really ponder what he posted, it was hyperbolic to the point of absurdity.

I'd argue that any kind of multi-tasking the requires either the system or the user to keep track of open programs is not an elegant one.

If it's automatic, does that mean it's closing applications that it thinks you don't need anymore? Is it prompting the user to close some applications because it's running out of memory? Does it bring up a window with a bunch of applications and says "tap the ones that you want to close in order to keep running your phone"?

These are all awful. I don't think "automatic" and "application management" can ever be in the same sentence realistically.

You do realize the iPhone/iPad already does OS-level multitasking? How do you think it's possible to play music from the built in player and browse at the same time, etc? Magic?

 

[blu]

Oh I know, that's what I was trying to say- that whatever I'm doing it sucks up my ram and I end up losing my cache such that only my last page was cached. Maybe one other if I'm lucky.

you just made me test it out. it appears that what gets cached and what doesn't is indeed just a matter of caching space, not how many tabs you have open. so one can open a few predominantly text pages, and they will cache just fine. but the moment a heavier page loads, chances are it will evict everything else from the cache.

 

[Blackhead]

I can't believe the search function not working in iBooks is even an issue. Do you think it won't be working by release? It's sure to be working, or at least removed.

Anyway, the device is sure to have basic PDF viewing. iWork is sure to open it too. Do you think we could print from iWork? That would be a killer feature.

I'm still madly excited for the device.

If they are still working on getting something as basic as the search function ready then it's unlikely we'll see more advance features like sharing books for instance. They'll also have to rush to get the software ready before the shipping deadline and the app might end up half-baked.

 

[Raistlin]

Gizmodo put up a pretty nice comparison chart -- I'm not sure if it's been posted yet as I missed the overnight stuff in this thread:

Strangely enough, there is only going to be two tablets capable of doing Flash.....one of which is $500, the other is probably more than $500. So much for the "I can find something that does twice as much for half the price!" nonsense.

Flash support was confirmed to be arriving for Android.

http://www.tmonews.com/2009/11/flash-coming-to-android-first-half-of-2010/

 

[VanMardigan]

That HP Slate looks like a clear winner in that comparison. Of course charts like that are meaningless when compared against user needs and functionality, but I think the Slate is the right device for me and my needs. We'll see.

 

[mrkgoo]

you just made me test it out. it appears that what gets cached and what doesn't is indeed just a matter of caching space, not how many tabs you have open. so one can open a few predominantly text pages, and they will cache just fine. but the moment a heavier page loads, chances are it will evict everything else from the cache.

Pretty much. Also, I believe when you run apps the is sits around and kills safari cache. If I have safari running when I open a new app I can nearly guarantee a crash.

Anyway, about the lack of a video camera in the ipad - I blame the new iPod nano! Damn you nano!

Honestly, though, I think the lack was mostly likely due to just not being ready. The software that is. Maybe it wasn't quite at the level that Steve was happy with.