TheRagnCajun
Member
I suppose in comparison to Boomers we could be considered great. I'm not so sure we compare favourably to other generations.
No, not good. Intolerance is not good, BamfMeat.
Religion also has a history of association with profoundly good acts. What section/subsection of humanity HASN'T or can't be associated with "horrible acts"?
Gen X here, only issues I have with Millennials are
- They forget Gen X exists when they write editorials about how the Boomers need to retire so they can take over the Boomers' management positions
- They take articles about how they are entitled loser babies seriously. They wrote so many editorials about how Xers were going to be slacker drug-addled losers who couldn't ever make money or hold a job outside fast food and music stores. No reason to let the clickbait get under your skin.
But I like the Millennials I work with. They try to not harm others.
The greatest generation fought WW2, but give me a break; try being black, gay or a woman back then. People are way more tolerant now and it keeps getting better, we've got them beat soundly in that department.
Practicing religion is different than using religious ideals as justification for halting progress towards a more equal and understanding society. Sadly the fact is they generally go hand in hand.
Entitlement my ass.
We have a broken planet, a rigged political system by senators and congressmen who over abuse their power by continuing to be re-elected while complaining about the election terms of a President, massive debt, rising prices.
Maybe we feel like you owe us for screwing us. -cracks knuckles-
I'm baffled by how much some people buy into the whole generational thing, as if they're set lines where, say, Generation X goes up to 1982 and NOT ONE DAY MORE.
It's occasionally useful, like the baby boomers is a handy distinction because it brings up interesting demographic challenges, but I don't think there's much difference between someone born in 1970 and 1990. I think there's an argument that the first generation to grow up with no memory of life before the Internet (born 1992 onwards, maybe) is the first really meaningful generation shift in living memory.
I call myself Generation X-Menillnials
For those that don't know Millennials are anyone born between the early 1980s and late 1990s.
Initially millennials were viewed (much like generation x) in a very negative light by older generations. But, as we have aged, Millennials have begun to be regarded as possibly the next "Great Generation" by some researchers.
Generations are generally defined by common traits both positive and negative. Millennials fall into the following:
Positive:
Exponentially less religious
Idealists that want to change the world
Logically more open to change
More likely chase their passions
Believe that work should align with their life and not be a detriment to it
Risk takers
Most Diverse generation (currently)
Value community, family and creativity over work
More educated
more open to social reform
Negative:
Entitlement complex
Narcissists (rise of facebook and selfies)
Techno-dependent
Expect to be paid higher wages (raises) just for working (not for doing better work, linked with entitlement).
Massively in debt (mostly due to prior generations kicking the can down the road so to speak but some is due to a general misunderstanding of finances which has come about due to how terribly our schools teach or don't teach finance ).
Of coarse Millennials also think IGen or Generation I (current generation) to be complete wastes of life but maybe they will actually be the next "Greatest Generation" and Millennials will be another "Silent Generation". It is thought that generations are cyclic in nature after all.
What say you GAF?
We're just a generation.
Then why don't you talk about this "certain religion" instead of painting all religions with your brush of intolerance?When you and your life is literally opposed to by a majority of a certain religion, you come back and tell me that "intolerance is not good". Until then, stuff it.
Incredible. This is one of the dumbest things that I've read in a while. This sad display of ignorance explains your hypocritical intolerance.We don't have atheists going around blowing people up. We don't have secularists burning people at the stake for being a witch. This is such a bullshit response to something that's factually a true statement - That religion has made people do terrible things.
Most baby boomers will be dead or catatonic in 20 years. These are people born in the late Forties and early fifties. In twenty years they'll be almost 100.
It really is. People are a product of the time and world they live in. That never changes.That's an incredibly dismissive thing to view this as; there's a lot of real and unprecedented changes going on in our world that will undoubtedly be shaped by how the new generation's view and rise to these issues (if they rise at all). A lot of positive changes, but a lot of changes socially and otherwise that may have unforeseen longterm effects.
It's not simply "old man yells at cloud" stuff here.
Too much has happened for this to be a relevant generational grouping.For those that don't know Millennials are anyone born between the early 1980s and late 1990s.
Wait. Wait. Millenials are early 80's to late 90's? You mean I'm not gen XY but in fact a millenial? wtf. I've been cracking jokes about millenials for so long...
No. I think 79's the cutoff.I was born in 81. Does this mean I get to be a Gen X'er?
Too much has happened for this to be a relevant generational grouping.
I'm born in 82 and a millennial.
When I was born, most people didn't have a computer (at the end of high school, some still didnt).
There were three TV channels. The introduction of the fourth one was a national occasion.
Growing up was dial up bbses and later hogging the phone while I was on mirc.
It was pretty carefree because tomorrow the evil Soviets would drop the bomb and everyone would be dead.
Less than half of the people had Internet when I graduated high school.
My first job was working on a mainframe. At university we learned Unix and raytracing. Java was going to be the shit.
I was an adult when 9/11 happened.
I am somehow the same generation as kids that watched youtube on flat screens in the first years of elementary school.
Then why don't you talk about this "certain religion" instead of painting all religions with your brush of intolerance?
Incredible. This is one of the dumbest things that I've read in a while. This sad display of ignorance explains your hypocritical intolerance.
No. I think 79's the cutoff.
stuff
I don't know about the others but there is no punishment for homosexuality in the Quran.Because it's not just a "certain religion" - it's multiple. I'm not singling out 1 religion, I'm singling out most. Whether you want to think this or not, most religions are opposed to homosexuality.
The religions OK with homosexuality:
Hindu
Paganistic religions (most, if not all)
The religions undefined:
Sikh
The religions opposed:
Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Buddhism
Bahá'í
Hitler was a secularist/atheist. I'll assume that you know what he did. The Soviets were militant atheists and did a lot worse in the name of atheism than blow a few people up in a crowded market. They slaughtered 12-20 million Christians. Pol Pot and Mao Zedong were atheists as well. If you don't know who they are google them, I'm not here to give you a history lesson.As for my "ignorance" - please educate me on what I said was factually wrong. Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)? Where are the secularists that decided to hunt witches and burn them at the stake? Where are the Humanists that are spending literally billions of dollars trying to make sure that same-sex marriage is illegal and stigmatized? Hell, tell me where the non-believers are that are trying to force people out of their "holy land".
Do you seriously think that an ethnic group of people taking the land of another ethnic group wouldn't result in a conflict without religion?You can call me ignorant all you want, but facts are facts and they remain unchanged despite you wanting to dismiss me. Religion has been used to start all out wars and assaults for literally thousands of years. Might the wars have occurred otherwise? Maybe. But I highly doubt we'd have the Israeli-Palestinian conflict right now if it weren't for religion, considering that's literally *about* religion. And that's just 1 example of a plethora I can pull out.
Wow, so do I!Edited - I don't actually hate religion like I know I sound here. What I hate is ignorance and stupidity and the effect that religion has on its followers to not think for themselves.
Because it's not just a "certain religion" - it's multiple. I'm not singling out 1 religion, I'm singling out most. Whether you want to think this or not, most religions are opposed to homosexuality.
The religions OK with homosexuality:
Hindu
Paganistic religions (most, if not all)
The religions undefined:
Sikh
The religions opposed:
Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Buddhism
Bahá'í
As for my "ignorance" - please educate me on what I said was factually wrong. Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)? Where are the secularists that decided to hunt witches and burn them at the stake? Where are the Humanists that are spending literally billions of dollars trying to make sure that same-sex marriage is illegal and stigmatized? Hell, tell me where the non-believers are that are trying to force people out of their "holy land".
You can call me ignorant all you want, but facts are facts and they remain unchanged despite you wanting to dismiss me. Religion has been used to start all out wars and assaults for literally thousands of years. Might the wars have occurred otherwise? Maybe. But I highly doubt we'd have the Israeli-Palestinian conflict right now if it weren't for religion, considering that's literally *about* religion. And that's just 1 example of a plethora I can pull out.
When you're told you're a bad person for being who you are, when you're discriminated against because of how you feel and literally who you're wired (hard, soft, psychological, whatever) to love, get back to me and we can discuss religion and it's impact on you as well. Until then, step off please. And if saying what I've said makes me "hypocritically intolerant" then I wear that badge with pride. Saying I should be tolerant of intolerance is the biggest bullshit cop-out answer. I don't have to be tolerant of something that's literally fucking over my life.
No, I celebrate millennials if for nothing else than they're open minded and willing to accept people as they are. They don't need a religion to dictate to them how to think. Their individuality is one of their biggest shining strengths. "Exponentially less religious" is an amazing thing and as I said, I hope that the trend continues. If you want to be religious and spiritual, fine. Good for you. Keep it away from me.
Edited - I don't actually hate religion like I know I sound here. What I hate is ignorance and stupidity and the effect that religion has on its followers to not think for themselves. And this thread isn't about religion anyway. It's about millennials. Go millennials. Or something.
I don't know about the others but there is no punishment for homosexuality in the Quran.
Hitler was a secularist/atheist. I'll assume that you know what he did. The Soviets were militant atheists and did a lot worse in the name of atheism than blow a few people up in a crowded market. They slaughtered 12-20 million Christians. Pol Pot and Mao Zedong were atheists as well. If you don't know who they are google them, I'm not here to give you a history lesson.
Oh and if you think the atheist paradise that was the Soviet Union accepted homosexuals with open arms, think again. Homosexuality was a crime and considered a disease in the Soviet Union.
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
- Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7
Do you seriously think that an ethnic group of people taking the land of another ethnic group wouldn't result in a conflict without religion?
Wow, so do I!
What? How does that work? Doesn't Buddhism entertain the realization of no self or duality? How can it infer gays are bad? That literally infers a perspective of self and of dualism.
Too much has happened for this to be a relevant generational grouping.
I'm born in 82 and a millennial.
When I was born, most people didn't have a computer (at the end of high school, some still didnt).
There were three TV channels. The introduction of the fourth one was a national occasion.
Growing up was dial up bbses and later hogging the phone while I was on mirc.
It was pretty carefree because tomorrow the evil Soviets would drop the bomb and everyone would be dead.
Less than half of the people had Internet when I graduated high school.
My first job was working on a mainframe. At university we learned Unix and raytracing. Java was going to be the shit.
I was an adult when 9/11 happened.
I am somehow the same generation as kids that watched youtube on flat screens in the first years of elementary school.
The Quran has the story of Sodom and Gamorrah. No more clear definition than that. .
We're talking about what's written in the Quran so I'm not sure why you posted that link. Would you like to find a link with people professing to be atheists doing bad things?The Quran has the story of Sodom and Gamorrah. No more clear definition than that. And also, if the Quran says nothing about it, then please tell it to these guys. Oh wait, their dead from being stoned to death... In the name of religion. And since you want to use the Quran, what about the Hadith? Or do you dismiss that the followers of Islam follow that as well?
I'm sorry but it's a well known fact that Hitler wasn't Christian. I'm surprised that anyone would think otherwise. He actually hated Christianity in particular. His use of religious imagery in his speeches doesn't mean that he is Christian.Hitler was a christian outwardly until the very end. He, in fact, used the church as ways to get into the homes and assist him with taking over going so far as to say that he was there to kill jews for killing Jesus. The man might not have been religious himself (and he later denounced Christianity as well) but he didn't mind using religion for his violent ends. Again - he *used religion*. Exactly as you're arguing against.
Also, Mein Kampf had quite a few references to god -
And on and on.
It doesn't matter?That's just Hitler - I'm not going to go into the rest of your little tirade because frankly, it doesn't matter. You didn't at all refute that I said that religion has been used many many times to justify killing. And it has. You have, I'll be generous, 4 examples. I have a whole lot MORE than 4 examples. 3 of which were strictly Marxism-Communism-based atrocities. And those 3 were not killing "in the name of atheism", as it were. They were killing people to keep their control.
You asked and I answered. Don't tell me that it doesn't matter, after the fact.Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)? Where are the secularists that decided to hunt witches and burn them at the stake? Where are the Humanists that are spending literally billions of dollars trying to make sure that same-sex marriage is illegal and stigmatized? Hell, tell me where the non-believers are that are trying to force people out of their "holy land".
Well yeah, that's how this whole thing started. You asked me where the murdering atheists were and I answered. I am simply pointing out how utterly wrong you are in thinking that atheism hasn't led to violence. This "the world would be a better place without religion" nonsense is a ridiculous and sad display of ignorance.Your entire arguments here hinge on "Well other people did things too." That's a fallacy. You can't and aren't able to refute anything I say, which is, religion has been the motivating factor for a lot of violence in the world. I would dare say a significant amount even. (And the rest were not because of religion, it was mostly because "Hey I want that land. Give it to me or I will beat you into submission.")
Tthey were killing in the name of atheism. It was a central part of their ideology. Why else would they specifically target and murder Christians, if not for atheism?
We're talking about what's written in the Quran so I'm not sure why you posted that link. Would you like to find a link with people professing to be atheists doing bad things?
The people of Lot who did deviant sexual acts were punished by God for attacking the Prophet and raping angels. Again, the Quran has no punishment for homosexuality. If there is a specific hadith that you wish to discuss, post it, but we're talking about the Quran.
Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
Abu Dawud 38:4448
Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.
Tirmidhi 1:152
I'm sorry but it's a well known fact that Hitler wasn't Christian. I'm surprised that anyone would think otherwise. He actually hated Christianity in particular. His use of religious imagery in his speeches doesn't mean that he is Christian.
If you want me to say that people haven't killed in the name of religion, it's not happening. Unlike you, I don't make ridiculous blanket statements that are easily proven to be wrong.
Unless the story of Sodom and Gammorah is something else in the Quran the main focus of that story is not homosexuals, that was just a city full of bad people
Those were murdering atheists but my question was "Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)? " Answer: there aren't.
So you've set up a false equivalence impossible to refute, is what you're saying.
Pretty sure Hitler fits the bill perfectly if we're actually having a two-way conversation.
things
We need another 10 years to pass before we can judge how we'll turn out. We certainly have our flaws but I think we have much more stacked against us than the past 2-3 generations. I am getting rather sick of baby boomers calling us entitled assholes. If we are, it's because they raised us that way.
Atheists have killed in the name of atheism. I've shown you several examples and for some reason, you aren't understanding it. Let's look at your original question again.Bullshit. The people who killed weren't killing in the name of atheism. They weren't killing in the name of their "god". They were chasing out (and killing) religious people because they saw that the religious people would deflect away from their power, not because they were doing it in the "name" of atheism.
Those were murdering atheists but my question was "Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)? " Answer: there aren't.
Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)?As for my "ignorance" - please educate me on what I said was factually wrong. Where are the atheists blowing people up in the name of their god(s)? Where are the secularists that decided to hunt witches and burn them at the stake? Where are the Humanists that are spending literally billions of dollars trying to make sure that same-sex marriage is illegal and stigmatized? Hell, tell me where the non-believers are that are trying to force people out of their "holy land".
Where are the Humanists that are spending literally billions of dollars trying to make sure that same-sex marriage is illegal and stigmatized?Religion is the opium of the people: this saying of Marx is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.
I'll just respond to the bolded here since the silliness that follows has been addressed above. Hitler hated Judaism and attempted to eradicate Judaism first because it was easiest. Hitler wasn't killing Christians because it would have been suicide. Instead, he opted for more subtle tactics. Of course, this is all mixed with his Aryan race nonsense.Since you want to go along those lines - why would Hitler want to exterminate all jews? It wasn't because he was an atheist, it was because he found them to be genetically and morally inferior. Hitler wasn't killing Christians. If he were killing in the name of atheism, he'd kill anyone who had faith and/or religion, not just a specific set of religious followers. Similarly, Communists weren't killing in the name of atheism and they weren't killing Christians just because they had belief - otherwise they'd kill more than just Christians.
The list of Nazi affronts to and attacks on the Catholic Church is long. The attacks tended not to be overt, but were still dangerous; believers were made to feel that they were not good Germans and their leaders were painted as treasonous and contemptible. The state removed crucifixes from the walls of Catholic classrooms and replaced it with a photo of the Führer.
Hitler issued a statement saying that he wished to avoid factional disputes in Germany's churches. He feared the political power that the churches had, and did not want to openly antagonize that political base until he had securely gained control of the country. Once in power Hitler showed his contempt for "non-Aryan" religion and sought to eliminate it from areas under his rule. Within Hitler's Nazi Party, some atheists were quite vocal, especially Martin Bormann. According to Goebbels Hitler hated Christianity. In 1939, Goebbels wrote that the Fuhrer knew that he would "have to get around to a conflict between church and state" but that in the meantime "The best way to deal with the churches is to claim to be a 'positive Christian'."
Prior to the Reichstag vote for the Enabling Act under which Hitler gained the "temporary" dictatorial powers with which he went on to permanently dismantle the Weimar Republic, Hitler promised the German Parliament that he would not interfere with the rights of the churches. However, with power secured in Germany, Hitler quickly broke this promise. He divided the Protestant Church and instigated a brutal persecution of the Jehovah's Witnesses. He dishonoured a Concordat signed with the Vatican and permitted a persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany. William Shirer wrote that, under the leadership of Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann and Heinrich Himmler, backed by Hitler, the Nazis intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if they could."
I've found several examples but your cognitive dissonance is preventing you from seeing them. Throughout history, atheism was never in a position of power until the French Revolution. During that time, 30,000 priests were forced out of France. Those that did not leave were beheaded. Of course, those priests weren't killed because of atheism. It was for power or something. And the Mexican Revolution? Definitely didn't happen.You literally cannot find an example of atheists killing people in the name of atheism. If you think you can, I'm completely open to links. Otherwise, to paraphrase you, "I'm not here to educate you."
No, we weren't talking about Islamists. We were talking about the Quran.No, we're talking about islamists, not just the Quran. Islamists don't just follow the Quran therefore the fact that you called it out specifically is moot.
Actually, I do. The Quran is the perfect book and takes precedence over everything else. The Quran isn't a "certain book", it is the book. Here is what the Quran has to say on the subject.Yes, it is their main holy text, however it's not their *only* holy text. They also follow others. You're the one that said "There's no punishment for homosexuality in the Quran" but we're talking religions here that don't like homosexuality, not just certain books from those religions. You're the one that singled out the Quran while disregarding the rest of the religion in general and you don't get to do that in this conversation.
Sounds a little different, doesn't it?And the two who commit it among you, dishonor them both. But if they repent and correct themselves, leave them alone. Indeed, Allah is ever Accepting of repentance and Merciful. Qur'an (4:16)
Unlike you, I speak of things that I am familiar with. I am not interested in discussing the other religions. Islam is not okay with homosexual acts just like Islam is not okay with adultery and shirk (which are much worse, actually). There is no punishment for homosexual acts in Islam. Feelings of homosexuality are obviously not a sin. Your link doesn't illustrate much. It's a well known fact that ISIS does as they please. They don't follow the Quran and are Muslims in name only. Are they killing in the name of religion? They are killing in the name of whatever warped ideologies that they are following, sure. That doesn't reflect on the actual correct form of the religion as a whole though.I named off religions that don't agree with homosexuality. You cherry-picked the book of one religion to use as an example. That doesn't mean the religion as a whole is suddenly OK with the gays just because there isn't mention of punishment of the gays. My link to the video of the guys getting killed illustrates that - that *Islamic people* are killing gays in the name of *Islam*. Again, we circle back to "People killing in the name of their religion, which is why I think it's good that millennials are moving away from religion".
Well, other than the millions killed throughout history that I have discussed numerous times, there is the prosecution of the 70 million Falun Gong practioners in China, leading to torture, psychiatric abuse and forced labour. As for a random person, professing to be an atheist, doing bad things. There is the murderer of the Chapel Hill shooting that comes to mind.And no, I wouldn't like to find a link with people professing to be atheists doing bad things - I want you to.
You've been proven wrong again and again. I'm actually surprised that you're still holding on.I don't give a damn what you do or don't say. And I have yet to be proven wrong. Again, if I'm wrong here, I'm happy to read links on research you've done.
Every generation is better than the previous.
This. I had this classification crap.I hate all this generational stuff, why can't people just be people? We never talked about generation this or generation that before the depression. I feel like the boomers just felt shitty that their parents were so much better than they were and did this as a result.