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[Mrmartel]

“ The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years.
These nations have progressed through this sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to selfishness;
6. from selfishness to complacency;
7. from complaceny to apathy;
8. from apathy to dependence;
9. from dependency back again into bondage.”

Sir Alex Fraser Tyler: (1742-1813) Scottish jurist and historian

I've always like this timeline of the decline of a civilization. It's a good description for the rise/decline of a empire. I think the US as well Western Civilization in general is anywhere between the 6-8th level. People would argue which stage but generally they would agree we are around these stages.

So as millienials we could possibly live to see this civilization collapse or be back in bondage... yay

 

[dabig2]

I don't know about greatest generation (there never existed such a thing), but I can only hope that our kids don't hate us as much as we hate our parents. Basically, it's up to Millennials to heal the world for the next generations to come. Tall challenge with climate change getting ready to wreck us, student loans on the brink of collapse, and whatever other bullshit our current leaders get us into over the next decade or two before Millennials start inserting themselves into more positions of power.

Luckily, unlike what Gen X experienced, Baby boomers are either retiring or dying in mass droves just in time for those 20-30 year old Millennials to take over those positions. Helps that Millennials are quite large in size and can affect the course of the nation. Give it a couple more election cycles.

 

[A Link to the Past]

“ The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years.
These nations have progressed through this sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to selfishness;
6. from selfishness to complacency;
7. from complaceny to apathy;
8. from apathy to dependence;
9. from dependency back again into bondage.”

Sir Alex Fraser Tyler: (1742-1813) Scottish jurist and historian

I've always like this timeline of the decline of a civilization. It's a good description for the rise/decline of a empire. I think the US as well Western Civilization in general is anywhere between the 6-8th level. People would argue which stage but generally they would agree we are around these stages.

So as millienials we could possibly live to see this civilization collapse or be back in bondage... yay

There are simply too many technologies in play to see that necessarily occur. Like if shit happens like this, we have people who can access government computers by hacking them. Or people on the inside can release information in seconds. And that information goes everywhere. It's a lot harder to maintain a bondage society in this day and age.

 

[stolin]

I need to read this book. I hear its a great insight on millennials

This book as well

 

[HariKari]

Or people on the inside can release information in seconds. And that information goes everywhere. It's a lot harder to maintain a bondage society in this day and age.

People can do that, and then watch the masses not care. The Snowden revelations haven't changed much, though they should have. Technology can free people but it can also suppress in ways the governments of old could only dream of. It can also dazzle and distract. Build a narrative out of nothing, about nothing.

Millennials have had a peek behind the curtain and have seen that the system is fundamentally broken. If gay marriage is a sign of things to come, then perhaps things will be okay on the civil front, but the damage dealt to this country by prior policy economically and environmentally may already be fatal.

 

[SentientStone]

I never knew I was a Millennial (always thought it was the 90s people), but I fit your list to a t, aside from entitlement. :S

 

[Pandaman]

Calling millenials entitled seems a bit strange given the boomers were handed everything and are burning down the world to hold on to it at the expense of everyone else.

 

[Sch1sm]

I don't think we're entitlted. I think we're unlucky. We aren't going to inherit much of anything, and markets are so inflated unless we get lucky and manage to find a good paying job right out of college and scrounge up a good down payment while living in rent traps (or our parents assist us, which I know mine are incapable of), we're doomed to lose money consistently in apartment complexes.

A lot of professions have a disturbing inflation of Baby Boomers who just don't want to retire, and we're consistently seeing prices rise, while services are being cut. All while being forced to work minimum wage jobs and losing out on comfortable living, or giving away free labour to scrape up that experience employers are obsessed with us having, even though jobs are difficult to come by.

We have so many social and environmental burdens, as well as religious focuses, that are overshadowing economical issues, and we're suffering as a result. It isn't so much entitlement as it is a, "Why me?" Why can't I have it as easy as my parents or grandparents did? Why am I the one who has to struggle to leave home, get a car, and gain proper independence, when these guys could do it without issue when they turned 18?


I don't get how people here can say Gen X and the Millennials are wrong to say that the Baby Boomers fucked us. They did. And then, to make more money, they took away the very things that made them successful to net a larger profit for themselves.





I was born in 95, known as some researches as the tail end of Gen Y/Millennial, or the start of Z.


This is written from an entirely urban Canadian perspective, so keep that in mind.


So I'm 20 years old now, entering my second year of college, and my total owing in student loans leaving my undergraduate degree for tuition alone (not counting books, transport, because I work to pay that) is going to total about $20k. In my province, post secondary education is no longer publically funded, but assisted, meaning now less than 50% is being paid by our provincial government. My school is projecting a 1% increase in tuition per year right through the entirety of my undergrad and then some.

I have one part time job, I had two up until this June but the place closed down. I've been looking for a job since last September with no luck, so now I'm living off of 8hrs/wk. I've even gone for a handful of interviews the last 3 weeks. It's not like I'm in a position to work more to earn a substantial amount, because if I make more than $10k annually, my student loans will offer less. As a result, all thismoney I earned to go toward moving out, or getting a car, is then forced to go to my schoolso I can afford this education my parents push for and many jobs require.

Luckily, I live with my parents. Now, it isn't that I want to live at home, but living in Toronto makes it a bit difficult to move out. For one, market rate rent is about $1000/mo for a studio apartment, which is about 3 times what I make currently because I can't seem to catch a break. I'd love to have a car of my own, sure, it'd make getting a job easier maybe because I'd be able to extend the travel distance. Too bad under 25 insurance is about $500-600/mo, and I'll only be shafting myself in other areas if I go for it.


TL DR;

• Difficult to find another job.
• If I find one, I'll make too much, and my student loans won't be enough.
• Money will then go to school instead of moving out and getting a car.
• Forced to stay with my parents as a result.
• I'm not entitled, I'm just trapped in cyclic, money-driven Hell.
  

 

[Fusion Pizza]

I believe members of my generation will rise and achieve great things.

But I do not think there is nearly as much "generational unity" as most people have bought into however.

Millennials are really fucking diverse. Everyone is into their own shit.

I have a hard time seeing an overwhelming force across the generation uniting and driving us into something to push/change the world into a better (or worse) state.

I believe the norm is that greatness and high achievement are naturally rare traits, and are accurately reflected in the population.

I see small groups and chunks of Millennials doing incredibly influential things though.

 

[Angelus Errare]

This generation will never "unify", way too many bought into the shit baby boomers sold them.

 

[gimmmick]

No, we are fucking horrible. Lazy, expecting everything to be handed to us. I was born in 1984 but grew up with my older cousins who were gen X. I feel like I connect more with the older generation then I do with this.

 

[Lazyslob]

im in this generation so yes

 

[SaviourMK2]

Entitlement my ass.

We have a broken planet, a rigged political system by senators and congressmen who over abuse their power by continuing to be re-elected while complaining about the election terms of a President, massive debt, rising prices.

Maybe we feel like you owe us for screwing us. -cracks knuckles-

 

[Zaptruder]

Entitlement? Expect to be paid more?

Buddy, our wages fucking suck relative to yours.

Ok, so we can buy more cheap crap and more techno crap, but the things that fucking matter like somewhere to live and work life balance? HAHAHA we got fucked. Decent food is also expensive.

Anyway, millenials will be forced to fix the world or die with it. We're not so much a great generation, as the most do or die generation.

If we fuck up, yay, civilization goes into a toilet.

 

[SPCTRE]

I feel like I connect more with the older generation then I do with this.

 

[Apt101]

I think Millennials have more potential than any other generation to be the best. They have all the tools and all the youth to make terrific things happen, but it's going to involve dethroning us (frankly) assholes who created a gigantic mess for them and making sure our countries can't repeat these same mistakes in 20 some odd years. Not "don't". but "can't" - we need laws to hold entities and individuals responsible.

Step one is to stop being so fucking incredibly P.C. and confront things. The second is to vote and be politically active. Because as much as things suck for you guys now, if you don't get more active in politics things are going to suck for me even more when I'm old, and be an outright travesty when you all hit your "golden" years. My generation, the generation that came along right before yours, failed to do these things. So please don't repeat our mistakes.

 

[teruterubozu]

Entitlement? Expect to be paid more?

Buddy, our wages fucking suck relative to yours.

Ok, so we can buy more cheap crap and more techno crap, but the things that fucking matter like somewhere to live and work life balance? HAHAHA we got fucked. Decent food is also expensive.

Anyway, millenials will be forced to fix the world or die with it. We're not so much a great generation, as the most do or die generation.

If we fuck up, yay, civilization goes into a toilet.

No it won't. Civilization will continue. Let's not get carried away with the generational narcissism.

 

[Dennis]

Judging from GAF and the number people getting triggered by a light breeze passing through a college courtyard I would have to go with "No".

 

[Nealand Liquor]

One thing a few arguments are forgetting is that generations are named "Great" AFTER they do something, not prior to doing anything at all except existing.
Stupid millenials and your entitlement.

 

[Zaptruder]

No it won't. Civilization will continue. Let's not get carried away with the generational narcissism.

In a technical sense sure - some humans somewhere are bound to continue irrespective of what happens in this world.

But the nature and number of significant and real existential threats that we face is unique to this generation.

Climate change, AI, automation.

They're all trigger points for a significant sea-change in global society. If we navigate it well, society will be amazing. If we don't, society will be terrible.

You want to know how you fail at tackling these or other issues? Fail to identify them, fail to identify them as a threat, fail to devise reasonable workable solutions, fail to act upon those solutions.

Of course, there isn't a sharp delineation between generations; it's not as if baby boomers are all responsible for the state of the world, nor that millennials are all responsible for fixing it - simply that the time frames in which these things will have the real opportunity to be tackled at full force will occur in the primacy of the millennial generation.

 

[The Elite]

No Millennials, you can't have the "slacker" archetype. That's us. Stick to what you're good at: creating hashtags about how stuff offends you.

You stole my post.

 

[teruterubozu]

Every generation called themselves the do-or-die tipping-point. Youth is infectious like that.

 

[Zaptruder]

Every generation called themselves the do-or-die tipping-point. Youth is infectious like that.

And this is truer for some generations than others.

The last great generation was called that for winning the war and preserving... and even launching the American empire.

 

[teruterubozu]

And this is truer for some generations than others.

The last great generation was called that for winning the war and preserving... and even launching the American empire.

And the Boomers thought they were changing society as well. Gen X thought they were dismantling/undermining society. Then every gen gets old and despises the youth for their enthusiasm.

 

[Red Mage]

Not sure if you're serious or not.

If you are, hahaha, no.

If you aren't, good one.

(I'm a Millennial, btw.)

 

[paradise_circus]

It's odd how such generational stuff is rarely discussed in germany.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's odd how such generational stuff is rarely discussed in germany.

You're discussing it now.

Do you think Americans are talking about it on the street corner or something?

Another case of "is this [internet discussion] an American thing?"

 

[Zaptruder]

And the Boomers thought they were changing society as well. Gen X thought they were dismantling/undermining society. Then every gen gets old and despises the youth for their enthusiasm.

Those generations too had the opportunity to change the world. And they did, just not in the way their younger idealistic selves thought they would.

Maybe that'll be the same for this generation - or maybe it won't be.

But if we do carry on the status quo, the planet will be objectively shittier for more people than ever before - because we are bumping up against the physical limits of the planet - and therein lies the key difference between previous generations and this generation.

No doubt there'll be other existential challenges for later generations to come, but if they emerge into a world that carries on the trends of societal improvement that we desire - then the issues that plague us now will largely be solved problems.

 

[Lashley]

No. We'll be better than the baby boomers, but that's not saying much.

 

[teruterubozu]

Those generations too had the opportunity to change the world. And they did, just not in the way their younger idealistic selves thought they would.

Maybe that'll be the same for this generation - or maybe it won't be.

But if we do carry on the status quo, the planet will be objectively shittier for more people than ever before - because we are bumping up against the physical limits of the planet - and therein lies the key difference between previous generations and this generation.

No doubt there'll be other existential challenges for later generations to come, but if they emerge into a world that carries on the trends of societal improvement that we desire - then the issues that plague us now will largely be solved problems.

I mean I agree to certain extent, but when it comes to the environment I view it more as a collective generational effort. Saying this generation fucked that up and another generation will clean it seems kind of myopic when it comes to something as dire as the planet. There are plenty of serious environmentalists who are Baby Boomers too and they are just as vital to turning things around.

 

[paradise_circus]

You're discussing it now.

Do you think Americans are talking about it on the street corner or something?

Another case of "is this [internet discussion] an American thing?"

No, it's just interesting how many studies are made, published and thoroughly discussed in the US. For instance, the german public media seems to discuss almost solely about retired people or the generations of immigrants and how both are (no) obstacles to the future society.

 

[Foffy]

Every generation called themselves the do-or-die tipping-point. Youth is infectious like that.

While true, can we really say this state is anything close to what's come before? We're literally in a scenario where the objective natural world can be destroyed to a point never encountered in human civilization with climate change, and a scenario for massive societal dissolution with the failings of traditional models of the labor system. And both have a series of mechanisms that make them problems all by themselves while having problems that also intertwine them as happening as one overall problem.

Consider for a moment most of this country and the developed world does not know how pervasive deep learning automation is to most labor today. We're talking about types of technology that aren't even 5 years old that can be used in ways to make at least a quarter of the labor force unemployable, not simply unemployed. This isn't even dealing with the introduction of "hard" AI that can accomplish this to much faster, more pervasive methods.

You can just look at GAF, a forum that usually has people who grasp technology, and see how clueless they really are to the automation problem by thinking it's nothing, or that solutions to it are just desires to be lazy and entitled. We're going to see people suffer and die because of our dangerously bad social impositions, and we're finally at an age where these talks and concerns that have gone for decades now have actual, factual occurrences to back them up. It could be a case of calling danger too much for too long, but it's real, it's here, it's happening, and it will only get worse as our basic social ideas are confused for objective reality, and we have zero interest in examining any of this further.

Most of the world still literally lives in a fantasy world where the goal of humanity is having jobs and increasing growth to a concept we call an economy, failing to realize all of the real ruin we're making by living this way. We're only seemingly going to do anything about it when our subjective ideas are insoluble from objective reality, and by that point it may literally be too late.

 

[NekoFever]

I'm baffled by how much some people buy into the whole generational thing, as if they're set lines where, say, Generation X goes up to 1982 and NOT ONE DAY MORE.

It's occasionally useful, like the baby boomers is a handy distinction because it brings up interesting demographic challenges, but I don't think there's much difference between someone born in 1970 and 1990. I think there's an argument that the first generation to grow up with no memory of life before the Internet (born 1992 onwards, maybe) is the first really meaningful generation shift in living memory.

 

[Zaptruder]

I mean I agree to certain extent, but when it comes to the environment I view it more as a collective generational effort. Saying this generation fucked that up and another generation will clean it seems kind of myopic when it comes to something as dire as the planet. There are plenty of serious environmentalists who are Baby Boomers too and they are just as vital to turning things around.

Well, we're in agreement. Indeed, I don't think the whole generational categorization is really all that useful when we're splitting hairs about other group overlaps. Generations are really diverse.

But to say that baby boomers (much more so than gen x) have made incredibly deleterious decisions for global welfare isn't really too far off the mark of truth.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Is there a link to this entire article anywhere?

 

[Duress]

More like sucking our own dicks.

 

[djtiesto]

I was born in 1981 and identify with Generation X way more. I get there have to be arbitrary cutoffs, but it's always bugged me.

I was born in '82, which is right at the generation split... There are some things I identify more with Gen X and others with Millenials. But when I interact with people like 6 or 7 years younger sometimes it feels like they have very little knowledge of culture prior to the late 90's... Even when growing up I knew about famous 60s and 70s TV shows, music, world events. When my girlfriend didn't know who Led Zeppelin was I was just like

 

[Vicetrailia]

So every generation fights the status quo and gets mad at the generations before them. But when they get older they protect the status quo, and get mad at the generations under them.

But hopefully not because we all know that the future lies with the next generation (which will always be different).

 

[Davey Cakes]

I don't think its worthwhile to generalize about everyone born at a certain time.

That, and I'm just sick of labels in general.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Older people bitching about younger people. Breaking fucking news.

 

[Fury451]

Older people bitching about younger people. Breaking fucking news.

That's an incredibly dismissive thing to view this as; there's a lot of real and unprecedented changes going on in our world that will undoubtedly be shaped by how the new generation's view and rise to these issues (if they rise at all). A lot of positive changes, but a lot of changes socially and otherwise that may have unforeseen longterm effects.

It's not simply "old man yells at cloud" stuff here.

 

[teruterubozu]

Older people bitching about younger people. Breaking fucking news.

And vice versa. Yeah it's an age old story.

 

[User 73706]

The whole schism between the Millennials and the Baby Boomers isn't going to have any solid ground for either side until, like, 20 years later when we both have a new generation to hate. It's like the whole circumcision debate; it's just a dick-waving contest between both parties because the people / generations outside of the argument don't actually give a shit about verifying which one "wins."

 

[Arkeband]

Oh god.

I'm a millennial!

 

[Timeaisis]

We're just a generation.

 

[wenis]

Welcome to the human race. It happens to all of us, it's a fucking rite of passage.

Never understood this. Being insulted continuously shouldn't be a rite of passage. If it were terrible enough to be recognized why not just stop it dead in its tracks and say "no more"? Why's the mentality always "because I went through this everyone has to go through this because it's only fair"

Fuckin horseshit.

 

[Stinkles]

I don't think its worthwhile to generalize about everyone born at a certain time.

Next you'll be saying astrology isn't a real science.

 

[Stinkles]

The whole schism between the Millennials and the Baby Boomers isn't going to have any solid ground for either side until, like, 20 years later when we both have a new generation to hate. It's like the whole circumcision debate; it's just a dick-waving contest between both parties because the people / generations outside of the argument don't actually give a shit about verifying which one "wins."

Most baby boomers will be dead or catatonic in 20 years. These are people born in the late Forties and early fifties. In twenty years they'll be almost 100.

 

[redbourne]

I was born in '82, which is right at the generation split... There are some things I identify more with Gen X and others with Millenials. But when I interact with people like 6 or 7 years younger sometimes it feels like they have very little knowledge of culture prior to the late 90's... Even when growing up I knew about famous 60s and 70s TV shows, music, world events. When my girlfriend didn't know who Led Zeppelin was I was just like

Born in 1981, so I am right at the generation split myself. I've read the Gen X requirements and meet some, I can also groove to some Zepplin, Bee Gees, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers; we can go on refugee...
-/-/-/-/-/
At the same time I graduated with a 21k debt, rather enjoy my job than be rich. I also read the net and bought a subscription on how to be a good parent...

So being in the middle of both generations and meeting requirements for both

I call myself Generation X-M

Spoiler

ill

en

Spoiler

nials

 

[NH Apache]

Wait, 82 is millennial now? Goddamit